Vince Gironda's theories

[Richie]

what do you all think of Vince Gironda's theories. i found a book called "unleashing the wild physique" and although i don't completely agree with his training methods,his theories on nutrition are very interesting.Richie

[snakeman]

richie;
can you give a link as to where we could read it. thanks.

[Richie]

i don't know if their is a link to it as i found the book when i was sorting out some stuff the other day. but he swears by liver tabs,high fat diets (meat & eggs mostly) among other things. those on a keto diet might find his theories quite interesting.Richie

[bb5-0]

I think his theories are still not outdated. Liver tablets are still widely used with much result, and eating whole eggs is advised when on keto diet. He trained lots of famous BB at a time when supps were not as widespread as now. So there was probably a lot of interesting ideas in his nutrition theories.

[Todd_A]

I came across mention of Vince Gironda's name yesterday and I satarted doing some research about his theories. They are definitely interesting, and they make sense to me. It isn't really that far fetched if you read enough about his reasoning, and you cant' argue with his results.

He was big against the standard Bench and Squat for bodybuilding. Now, for power lifting, he agreed on their use.

One of his comments was that power lifters or weight lifters are stronger than body builders on the exercises that they use, but that bodybuilders are stronger on the Gironda style of lifts that his guys trained on and that a power lifter would not be able to keep up with a bodybuilder on them even if they dropped they weight considerably.

I think his version of the bench press (the neck press) would be rough on my shoulder, but he claimed that sicne you are working with less weight than a power lifter, that you would have next to no injuries compared to all the injuries you always hear about with lifters that go heavy.

He claimed that his 8 sets of 8 was a great all around resluts getting set up. I think he said he liked to work up to a 15 second rest between sets where his pupils were to hyperventilate then jump right back into it.

He was training body builders back in the 50's before steriods were introduced, and once they hit, he was against their use. So I can see why he would have been forgotten about when everyone started jumping on the band wagon and the sport started heading in that direction.

But the cool thing is that his theories are all geared towards natural body builders, so I can see where some of his stuff doesn't seem as mainstreem since all the magazines seem to cater to the enhanced builders. If you are not taking enhancements, your training is naturally going to have to be different from that. (no pun intended.).

[Bando]

wow, strong 7 year old thread revival

[Todd_A]

wow, strong 7 year old thread revival

Yeah, I didn't realize the date until after I posted. I had been using the search function again. sorry.

[ironwill2008]

This is for the posters here who may not know who this guy was. Vince was pretty cutting-edge, both in his training and nutrition ideas. He owned the gym where Arnold first trained when he came to the US. When Vince competed, he was ripped before the term even existed:

[Bando]

Yeah, I didn't realize the date until after I posted. I had been using the search function again. sorry.

No sweat, it's a shame no one has brought up that name in such a long time.

[Don71]

I think Gironda was cutting edge and way before his time. I think a lot of other people capitalized on his methods more than he did. I don't believe he was on the money about everything but he had some excellent methods.

[GuyJin]

Some of Gironda's ideas were good i.e. the use of bromelain (sic?) for aiding digestion, liver pills, eggs (!) and so on, but his training ideas are guaranteed to cause controversy, and he has as many followers as detractors.

A lot of people bitched because they never got a whole lot of strength out of his programmes and that's mainly because they were NOT intended to cause strength; just size. "Cosmetic bodybuilding"--his forte. If you want strength, train more along powerlifting lines.

Some of the techniques he advocated--to me--are downright dangerous. Neck press: Light(er) weight or not, still a strain on the RC's. Dips with palms facing out--major stress on the wrists. Hacks? Too much shear on the knees. Rows to the upper part of the abs---what did he want, high lats? I could never understand that. Ab training and training for shape and proportion I will agree wholeheartedly on.

The one thing I'll say is that while he stood for drug-free bodybuilding, a lot of the guys he trained were drugging up WHILE THEY WERE AT HIS GYM. And he must have known that. So maybe he wasn't in it for the money--I doubt it--but he was in it for the fame and I consider him hypocritical for knowing that his "boys" did drugs yet he (Gironda) was always preaching against them.

I expect some people will see me as trashing his reputation. Not so; just giving my opinions on it all. Great trainer? Yes, in many ways; great and honest person...sorry, not above anyone else, IMHO...

[ArchAngel'73]

Neck presses FTW.

[IronCharles]

Love the Gironda drag curls. I use those regularly.

I think part of what made Vince a successful trainer, is that he was an ass****. You did things correctly (his way), or you got cursed out and yelled at or thrown out of his gym. He was all about discipline and would go berserk if he felt you were not putting 100 percent effort into your training. One glance around most gyms today should prove that bodybuilding needs butt- kickers like Vince, but sadly, in this day and age of Political Correctness and Sensitivity Training, the old school methods won't be accepted by many.

[dungeonmistress]

s,08 ǝɥʇ uı ʞɔɐq ʞooq ʇɐɥʇ pɐǝɹ ı ʞuıɥʇ ı uɐɯ

[Ford_Power]

Love the Gironda drag curls. I use those regularly.

I think part of what made Vince a successful trainer, is that he was an ass****. You did things correctly (his way), or you got cursed out and yelled at or thrown out of his gym. He was all about discipline and would go berserk if he felt you were not putting 100 percent effort into your training. One glance around most gyms today should prove that bodybuilding needs butt- kickers like Vince, but sadly, in this day and age of Political Correctness and Sensitivity Training, the old school methods won't be accepted by many.

That is one thing that I have heard about him in all that I've read - he was very difficult to work with in that regard but he got results out of those he trained. It was all about the discipline and all out effort and if you didn't cut it, then he cut you loose.

I don't agree with everything that he taught, but there's one thing for sure and that is he was years ahead of his time.

[samori]

I'm not versed in his views on nutrition. However, I have tried working in some of his ideas on individual exercises. while I saw some benefit, I also saw injury risk on quite a few.

That being said... I was doing them alone, without the benefit of someone well versed showing me the finer points. His methods are probably better served after doing the proper research and planning.

[JOHN GARGANI]

ah, Vince, .....Vince....quite a character.....I have all of his old original booklets from the 70s...

definitely over opinionated, however, he was introspective and really trying to think things out....

unfortunately, he was a predecessor of the Mike Mentzer " my way or the highway" type of stubborness, and I feel that in all things in life, you have to maintain some sort of open mind.

[LWW]

ah, Vince, .....Vince....quite a character.....I have all of his old original booklets from the 70s...

definitely over opinionated, however, he was introspective and really trying to think things out....

unfortunately, he was a predecessor of the Mike Mentzer " my way or the highway" type of stubborness, and I feel that in all things in life, you have to maintain some sort of open mind.

this is what sells in the irongame, I want to buy that book even though I have no interest in neck presses, 8x8, sissy squats ect. I have much interest in 1-set to failure like Arthur Jones though. The irongame is full of charatcers, buisnessmen, show-men, huksters, and guliable fans, along with some misfits.

Vince and Arthur had that "my way or highway attitude" only Arthur used a real no nonsense approch to training, Vince used theatrics (afterall he was a dancer in the movies).

A great Vince story I heard from an old friend of Arthurs was that A.J. was given a pic of Vince that read "Caseys a** sucks buttermilk" signed Vince with the famous "V".....

now ANYONE could of signed that.......

[JOHN GARGANI]

this is what sells in the irongame, I want to buy that book even though I have no interest in neck presses, 8x8, sissy squats ect. I have much interest in 1-set to failure like Arthur Jones though. The irongame is full of charatcers, buisnessmen, show-men, huksters, and guliable fans, along with some misfits.

as with MANY things in life......excellent post!

[ironwill2008]

An odd coincidence; in yesterday's local morning paper, there was a small article about a "new" health discovery--that drinking cherry juice is good for joint health. I immediately remembered I had read the same information nearly 20 years ago, in one of Vince Gironda's nutrition pamhlets.

[JOHN GARGANI]

yeah, Bill, it seems the anti-oxidants in Cherries are the bomb! LOL....and the farmers know that, because the price of cherries is through the roof...HAHAHAHAH......

[BuckSpin]

Surprised no one has posted this yet:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/guru.htm

I liked it so much I borrowed this (in my current sig):

"I recalled our first meeting ...he excused himself, got up, took some money out of the register, gave it to a member, and promptly threw him out of the gym for doing situps and leg raises." - Ron Kosloff about Vince Gironda

[Defiant1]

what do you all think of Vince Gironda's theories. i found a book called "unleashing the wild physique" and although i don't completely agree with his training methods,his theories on nutrition are very interesting.Richie

Vince was WAY ahead of his time, almost scarily so...


When taken in context, his advice was pretty much spot on. Even his "anti-squats/bench press" stance...again, in context.

[Ekie]

Have been studying Vince's literature and he mentions "protein powder". Anyone have a clue what that would have been back in the 1960's?

[Centennial80015]

This website is dedicated to Vince.

http://www.ironguru.com/

You can purchase his books and booklets here too.

[ironwill2008]

Have been studying Vince's literature and he mentions "protein powder". Anyone have a clue what that would have been back in the 1960's?

IIRC, it was Soy-based.

[JC480]

Vince was a smart cookie.

Some of his ideas were intriguing (to me) but were not something I put much thought into following or investigating further as they went against my common sense.

He believed in HCL supplementation which may have some benefits for digestive efficiencies...I would be a bit worried about intentionally modifying my acidic levels over time and the effects that this may cause.

He also proposed that the body digests same food types more efficiently than mixing them. Carbs should be eaten alone...consuming protein with them decreases micronutrient absorption. This may be true...I don't know...but I don't believe the body has any problem in ripping apart and obtaining nutrients from mixed food sources.

That's not to say some foods aren't synergistic...spinach and fats...chicken and brocolli etc...but this is a bit different than what he proposed. Again, not something I really care to investigate or ponder at any length.

He did have some awesome ideas and, like others have said, was ahead of his time.

[Richie]

Old thread.......but a goodie. Although many ideas/theories have come and gone since this thread but i still return to Vinces nutritional theories.

He recommended a high fat diet with a large carb meal every 96 hours. Sounds very similiar to a (slightly altered) CKD to me. When i was ketoing i ate his "power breakfast" most of the time.

Centennial80015, great link.

His book "Unleashing The Wild Physique" is well worth a read.

Richie

[scoot1243]

Some of Gironda's ideas were good i.e. the use of bromelain (sic?) for aiding digestion, liver pills, eggs (!) and so on, but his training ideas are guaranteed to cause controversy, and he has as many followers as detractors.

A lot of people bitched because they never got a whole lot of strength out of his programmes and that's mainly because they were NOT intended to cause strength; just size. "Cosmetic bodybuilding"--his forte. If you want strength, train more along powerlifting lines.

Some of the techniques he advocated--to me--are downright dangerous. Neck press: Light(er) weight or not, still a strain on the RC's. Dips with palms facing out--major stress on the wrists. Hacks? Too much shear on the knees. Rows to the upper part of the abs---what did he want, high lats? I could never understand that. Ab training and training for shape and proportion I will agree wholeheartedly on.

The one thing I'll say is that while he stood for drug-free bodybuilding, a lot of the guys he trained were drugging up WHILE THEY WERE AT HIS GYM. And he must have known that. So maybe he wasn't in it for the money--I doubt it--but he was in it for the fame and I consider him hypocritical for knowing that his "boys" did drugs yet he (Gironda) was always preaching against them.

I expect some people will see me as trashing his reputation. Not so; just giving my opinions on it all. Great trainer? Yes, in many ways; great and honest person...sorry, not above anyone else, IMHO...

It seems like the only people who are against VG's methods are those who don't understand them.

[KrohDaddi]

please describe this 'neck press'