Lyle Mcdonald and Rippetoe go to war (ya rly)

[CaptainGorgeous]

I'm a fan of Lyle's site, but his email made him look like a little bitch.

I ran Starting Strength and got awesome strength gains, but I ended up fat and out of proportion. It's not a bodybuilding program--it did what it was supposed to do. I'm not a huge fan of Rippetoe's training philosophy overall, but he completely owned Lyle.

[Staliyo_Lycan]

Right, because pressing the invert colors button to balance out horrible lighting in a completely bright orange bathroom button completely changes my physique, doesn't it small fry?


Keep catchin feelings brah, it's ok, we've all been taking your random 18 year old ass pretty seriously since you enlightened us to the fact that one of the better strength coaches alive is a fraud and teaches incorrect form.

just because you are taller...

edit: strong avi...

[Fire8085]

LOL. I predicted someone would say this when I first posted in this thread. No, they were asked about this already: both of them are defining LBM as total lean body mass. As in, 1 lb of LBM = about 0.25 lbs of contractile muscle tissue, and 0.75 lbs of water, glycogen, sarcoplasm, etc. Lyle's saying that a noob would be lucky to gain 2 lbs of TOTAL LBM in a month, and Rip is saying his trainees gain that in a week.

Who's right is still up for debate, but that's the argument. It isn't like Lyle is saying that you can gain 2 lbs of contractile muscle tissue (and hence 8 lbs of LBM overall) in a month. That would be misleading.

Thanks, sorry must have skimmed over that.

So studies say 24 lbs/year of muscle tissue correct? Which (if it were only 25% of muscle) was 100 lbs/LBM in a year correct? Sorry am I mistaken here? That must be an outright lie because I have yet to see someone put on 100 pounds of "muscle" in a year. I'm assuming I'm wrong on this one.

Edit: Forget the above

If not 24/lbs a year of tissue itself, but rather 24 lbs/year of muscle growth, then that being 100% of it, and 25% of that is actually tissue, that seems a bit more reasonable. That's 6 pounds of contractile tissue then (roughly). (is this outside of "newbie" gains or untrained individuals?)



In this kids case, in 6 months he gained 46 pounds of muscle (claimed) meaning 25% was about 11 pounds of contractile tissue? If he gained 24 lbs of muscle in this time frame then it would be double the rate as shown in studies but double that again because of the acclaimed 46 lbs/growth here (48 i know is double but ease of calculations here).

Newbie gains+better mass gaining program+calories galore=maybe 4x the rate of studies shown? I don't know.

[_Girgantuan_]

This is why I stray from talking about lifting in the misc. People think just because you can't do it someone else can't either.

This whole board is almost entirely fueled by this "Bro" science bull****. ****ing sad.

[thedestro]

Not sure where the debate is. The video verfies the strength gains (which are outstanding by the way), and the pictures obviously put the kid somewhere in the low-mid 20% bodyfat range, verifying the LBM gains.

If he cut now he'd have the size and physique it would take all these other morons calling him fat 2+ years to attain. But that would be silly, of course.

Chalk one up to Rip.

[KRILLEN91]

so let me try and get this straight-
a guy has gone from 175lbs to 240lbs

he benches 145
squats 315x5
deadlifts 300 or something
and looks like ****. How is this an accomplishment???
Besides his squat all of his lifts are terrible especially for his weight. who cares if he can squat 350 when he has 14 inch arms at 240lbs and can barely bench -100lbs of his bodyweight after training specifically for strength.

to me rips done nothing to this guy except make him fat. props to him for having a strong squat after 6 months, but besides that it was just an epic fail.

[Messiahtype]

...and 315x5 is a sh*tty squat for someone 240. I would be a good squat for when he was 160 though.

[Younglifter16]

the guy looks like he did a dreamer bulk, im not even sure if there is anything to be impressed about. And lyle mcdonald is smart but one of the biggest dicks in the fitness community. Seriously, the guys an *******.

[Fire8085]

...and 315x5 is a sh*tty squat for someone 240. I would be a good squat for when he was 160 though.

If he cuts down, he should probably be able to squat a decent amount still.

[KRILLEN91]

If he cuts down, he should probably be able to squat a decent amount still.

yeh no doubt he's got a strong squat but 145 bench at 240 lmfao you know your doing something wrong

[NateDG72]

yeh no doubt he's got a strong squat but 145 bench at 240 lmfao you know your doing something wrong

145 lb Press for 5 reps, and 240 lb Bench Press for 5 reps.

[BXTT]

so let me try and get this straight-
a guy has gone from 175lbs to 240lbs

he benches 145
squats 315x5
deadlifts 300 or something
and looks like ****. How is this an accomplishment???
Besides his squat all of his lifts are terrible especially for his weight. who cares if he can squat 350 when he has 14 inch arms at 240lbs and can barely bench -100lbs of his bodyweight after training specifically for strength.

no rippetoe dickriding, but you confused the numbers, he military presses 145x5 and benches 240x5..

[KRILLEN91]

no rippetoe dickriding, but you confused the numbers, he military presses 145x5 and benches 240x5..

oh my bad i just saw almighty jads 145 and it said press so i assumed bench.
it's not a great bench but for 6 months training its really good.

[BigMacMeal]

I use to be a member on lyle's board, guy knows his stuff no doubt and i got the leanest the quickest I ever have using his principles but he is a mega dickhead and turned me off posting there...

just my 2 cents but that guy did a good bulk although he kinda has a plump ass... would like to see what he looks like cut

[My_Mouth]

What makes you guys think Lyle McDonald is a dick? I've read a few of his books and have been on his forum a few times but i haven't seen him do anything maliciously.

[Master.D.]

someone rehost the pic.. i missed it.

[VegasPumped]

What makes you guys think Lyle McDonald is a dick? I've read a few of his books and have been on his forum a few times but i haven't seen him do anything maliciously.

Lol, he cussed out Mark Rippetoe through an email about 4 hours ago.

[Pinturicchio]

Bookmarked for after class.

[Younglifter16]

What makes you guys think Lyle McDonald is a dick? I've read a few of his books and have been on his forum a few times but i haven't seen him do anything maliciously.

I've read his books and used his programs too, but the guy is an dick and has zero people skills. I've seen him tear people apart for simply asking a question about his programs...he really hates it if you have an "obvious" question (alot of the times the questions weren't even that obvious). If you ask a question and don't sound "smart" enough, he'll rip you apart. I don't mean harmless name calling either, this guy will personally insult you and attack you like an animal. When I was younger (in my teenage years), I used to feel like I was walking on egg shells just reading some threads at his forum, so many people were getting insulted by him. I actually felt bad for lyle because he probably thought it was "cool", not realizing how dumb he looked.

He's an *******, which is dumb on his part because if you're selling stuff by word of mouth/online, you should be people friendly. Imagine if Scivation was an *******, he wouldn't sell anything, every product scivation puts out sells like hotcakes because the guy is a sweet heart (no homo).

[Zeitus42]

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[cncman]

Wrong.




Ummm, did you even read what Rip is claiming?
So much muscle in such a short period...

Going against many, many studies...

"brb 20 pounds of muscle in a week, I did it, I don't care what you book says"
Obviously the claim isn't as bad as ^^^ but you get me cousin.

what makes you an expert on everything? this is why the misc does not like you

[alero]

definitely not 200lbs on your reps

Could easily be 50 to 75 pounds.

You are ****ing stupid. Rip trains him. Rip is all about technique and strength. Pretty damn sure the kid has great technique because off Rip.

I'm stupid? I was doing this back when you were still pissin out the back window son.

That kid got fat as hell.

[HI_KKM]

where are the LBM comparisons if any were made?

why can't people beginning SS start taking caliper measurements?

p.s. Rippetoe 1 Lyle 0

[Mr.Pooperton]

So, let’s get this over with. Two views of all five sets:
http://vimeo.com/10055310
http://vimeo.com/10054667


There is 320 on the bar, and all 25 of these reps are deep – not just parallel – in any federation. At a bodyweight of probably 237.5, in the middle of mid-terms, at a training time he’s not used to (10:30pm) because I asked him to come in a day early to put this silly bull**** to bed.

wow getting to 320 5x5 in that short amount of time is crazy impressive. GJDM to him.

[belmont316]

Alan Araganon or w/e his name is, Rip, and Lyle are all full of b.s.

they know way more then the average person but they aren't PHD's, they haven't run any tests themselves.

They are nothing more than the kings of broscience.

Dead (srs)

broscience trumps modern science in the weightlifting world

[belmont316]

wow getting to 320 5x5 in that short amount of time is crazy impressive. GJDM to him.

brb being a failure for lifting for 7 years and not squatting as well as that kid in 15 weeks. brb suicide. brb self mutilating own ballsack and recording it on video. brb this is why i cant have nice things.

[wallywhit]

cliffs

-Rip posts pics of a 6'1'' 160lb 20 year old called Zach EVett
-Shows pics of him now, 15 weeks later, weighing 80lbs more
-Uses body calipers to show he is at 20-22% bf currently, meaning he has put on 60% muscle

-Lyle Mcdonald rages on his board at all his devotees believing Rip, 'its only possible to put on a 1lb of muscle a week etc'
-Demands shirtless pics, saying he's really much fatter
-Rip posts shirtless pics on his board
-Now demands vid of Zach squatting 320 for 5 sets of 5 as claimed to prove he isn't just a fatass

-Rip says on his board he's gonna post em up EDIT: Tonight



Cliffs of cliffs:




links to threads

http://startingstrength.com/resource...ad.php?t=15386

http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=6654

interesting

[Valenzuelatech]

Wow, Zach got hyooouuuuge!

[ser-gay]

cliffs: both lyle and rippetoe are hyooge fags who consistently talk shit to impress ppl with little to no knowledge and experience to make $$

[kel_varnsen]

WOw, just read Rip replying to Lyle!
Sorta owned...

For Lyle to talking about lift progress like that is flat out dumb, a lot of people, including myself have progressed on their lifts like Zach.

As for the LBM gains, I'm very skeptical, and I doubt he gained 30 pounds of muscle, or whatever the claim is. I doubt just because it's unheard of.
Anways, Lyle still knows lots, Rip knows how to lift progress and squat. He's a texan too, badass.

the claim regarding lbm gains is ridiculous. nowhere near the truth.

as for the strength claim, i don't really see the big deal. i started squatting last year. started at 5-6 reps x 80 kg (175lbs). 4 months later or so i was up to 5-6 reps at 130 kg (285 lbs) and my leg workouts weren't very consistent. didn't weigh more than 185 lbs at the end either and believe me, if i can do it, everyone can...