the difference between natural and normal bbers

[EatProtein]

wats the difference between natural bodybuilders and normal bodybuilders because all the naturals i know have no muscle and no fat there basicly skinny guys with sum definition ???

I am clueless as to what it is you dont understand???

[Anabolism1000]

but that was the choice of the "greatest bodybuilders in the world" (which is your opinion , because i feel the greatest are in the Natural Federations).

now the way i see it. The ifbb is has pretty much weeded out all the natural guys because their physiques look....natural. There isn't one IFBB bodybuilder except for Mike Morris that would go to a Natural Federation even if they were allowed, because for most of them its about trying to reach the pinnacle of the IFBB, which has more publicity and freakish physiques then the natural federations even if it meant their lives, because they want the fame and the money. How many other bodybuilders are dying to go to the Natural Federations for their health, no they rather stay in the IFBB for the fame and a chance to make big money.

It would have been truly admirable if the "naturals" had competed against everyone else instead of forming a subcult within what is already a cult sport to begin with. If the greatest are in the Natural Federations, as you say, let them stand next to everyone else and let the judges decide instead of the nats having picked up their toys and gone home, so to speak. Maybe if they had competed year after year against everyone else they could have swung the judges opinions. It might not have happened overnight, but instead the nats were getting their butts kicked, and instead of hanging in there, they created their own federation of lesser bodybuilders.

If anyone wants to be considered a great bodybuilder they need to stand next to everyone, not just other naturals. In other sports there is no other option if someone wants to be among the greats. If you want to be an NFL football star and you are natural, you still have to compete against the juiced players.

[Quelly]

It would have been truly admirable if the "naturals" had competed against everyone else instead of forming a subcult within what is already a cult sport to begin with. If the greatest are in the Natural Federations, as you say, let them stand next to everyone else and let the judges decide instead of the nats having picked up their toys and gone home, so to speak. Maybe if they had competed year after year against everyone else they could have swung the judges opinions. It might not have happened overnight, but instead the nats were getting their butts kicked, and instead of hanging in there, they created their own federation of lesser bodybuilders.

If anyone wants to be considered a great bodybuilder they need to stand next to everyone, not just other naturals. In other sports there is no other option if someone wants to be among the greats. If you want to be an NFL football star and you are natural, you still have to compete against the juiced players.

just because you make this analogy doesnt mean that you are right about bbing.....I have no problem with juice I have problems with integrity.....now technically the IFBB doesnt allow the use of steroids....but everyone knows that you have to use steroids in the IFBB, in fact I'd venture to guess that 99% of competing IFBB pros use steroids....in the NFL, NHL and in baseball the numbers are drastically lower, I just read a report in Body Of Science written by a drug testing guru who believes that because of the NFL's new methods of testing and regmins that only 20% of players juice, and he thinks that juice is a non issue in hockey....there is a huge difference between professional bbing and the rest of these sports.....the difference? In bodybuilding you have to juice to compete on the pro level....and in most cases you have to juice to even become a pro....supposedly there are exceptions, darrem charles and Ronnie coleman have claimed to have achieved pro status natural, but then had to juice to compete....these aren't my words....pros have said that you have to use juice to compete on the pro level....listen to victor martinez on pro bbing weekly.

The NFL, baseball and hockey would be very different sports if 99% of the players juiced and if 90% of the players had to juice just to turn pro....the analogy doesnt work....in professional sports the officials don't turn a blind eye to the drug use, they are trying to stop it all the time, and their testing methods are behind the doping methods and they are constantly trying to keep doping out.....in the IFBB it is assumed everyone juices and the officials turn a blind eye....juice is as much a part of IFBB pro bodybuilding as pads and helmets are a part of football....the comparison does not work at all.

[Anabolism1000]

just because you make this analogy doesnt mean that you are right about bbing.....I have no problem with juice I have problems with integrity.....now technically the IFBB doesnt allow the use of steroids....but everyone knows that you have to use steroids in the IFBB, in fact I'd venture to guess that 99% of competing IFBB pros use steroids....in the NFL, NHL and in baseball the numbers are drastically lower, I just read a report in Body Of Science written by a drug testing guru who believes that because of the NFL's new methods of testing and regmins that only 20% of players juice, and he thinks that juice is a non issue in hockey....there is a huge difference between professional bbing and the rest of these sports.....the difference? In bodybuilding you have to juice to compete on the pro level....and in most cases you have to juice to even become a pro....supposedly there are exceptions, darrem charles and Ronnie coleman have claimed to have achieved pro status natural, but then had to juice to compete....these aren't my words....pros have said that you have to use juice to compete on the pro level....listen to victor martinez on pro bbing weekly.

The NFL, baseball and hockey would be very different sports if 99% of the players juiced and if 90% of the players had to juice just to turn pro....the analogy doesnt work....in professional sports the officials don't turn a blind eye to the drug use, they are trying to stop it all the time, and their testing methods are behind the doping methods and they are constantly trying to keep doping out.....in the IFBB it is assumed everyone juices and the officials turn a blind eye....juice is as much a part of IFBB pro bodybuilding as pads and helmets are a part of football....the comparison does not work at all.

The analogy wasn't the point (even though it works for me), the point is (which you made in your post above) is that natural bbers can't compete on a professional level which truly sums up the question asked in the title of this thread, "the difference between. . . ."

Very good argument BTW.

[TheSheepdog]

It would have been truly admirable if the "naturals" had competed against everyone else instead of forming a subcult within what is already a cult sport to begin with. If the greatest are in the Natural Federations, as you say, let them stand next to everyone else and let the judges decide instead of the nats having picked up their toys and gone home, so to speak. Maybe if they had competed year after year against everyone else they could have swung the judges opinions. It might not have happened overnight, but instead the nats were getting their butts kicked, and instead of hanging in there, they created their own federation of lesser bodybuilders.

If anyone wants to be considered a great bodybuilder they need to stand next to everyone, not just other naturals. In other sports there is no other option if someone wants to be among the greats. If you want to be an NFL football star and you are natural, you still have to compete against the juiced players.

i said that it is in MY opinion that the best are in the natural fed's, no big deal
i thnk the subcult was made when that first guy decided to use steroids and compete, and decided that he wanted the edge in the playing field, thats when the subcult was created.I'm not saying the Nats are the greatest beased on Physique, but based on what it takes to reach what they have reached. killing someone with your fist is more impressive then killing someone with a gun.

also, your saying that the Naturals, instead of getting their butt kicks and hanging in their, they created their own federation of lesser bodybuilders, why are they lesser? because they dont juice?
you mean to tell me that if i dont juice, i'm lesser then someone who is?
The nats were getting their butts kicked because they didnt juice, thats why, they wanted a playing field of indivduals who did not want to put their health on the line (by using steroids) and to show what the human body was capable of without the extra hormonal crap that the Ifbb guys are using, like its meant to be done. That way we can say Joe Schmoe has the best physique without a doubt because he brought HIS best without all the sythetic hormonal crap.

oh and by the way its illegal to take steroids in the NFL...they actually test the players, because the goal is to have a level playing field.

dude, i go to the IFBB shows, I watch the Pro's and order the ppv, because i enjoy bodybuilding, period, but i prefer the natural physiques.
i'm for seperatin the men from the boys, with a level playing field with old school rules

[MoGeaYuglay]

killing someone with your fist is more impressive then killing someone with a gun.

Couldn't have put it any better myself This whole drug thing has complicated bodybuilding immensely. Call me grandpa, but give me back the 50's-60's era of bodybuilding except with a bit more emphasis on legs.

[Anabolism1000]

i said that it is in MY opinion that the best are in the natural fed's, no big deal
i thnk the subcult was made when that first guy decided to use steroids and compete, and decided that he wanted the edge in the playing field, thats when the subcult was created.I'm not saying the Nats are the greatest beased on Physique, but based on what it takes to reach what they have reached. killing someone with your fist is more impressive then killing someone with a gun.

also, your saying that the Naturals, instead of getting their butt kicks and hanging in their, they created their own federation of lesser bodybuilders, why are they lesser? because they dont juice?
you mean to tell me that if i dont juice, i'm lesser then someone who is?
The nats were getting their butts kicked because they didnt juice, thats why, they wanted a playing field of indivduals who did not want to put their health on the line (by using steroids) and to show what the human body was capable of without the extra hormonal crap that the Ifbb guys are using, like its meant to be done. That way we can say Joe Schmoe has the best physique without a doubt because he brought HIS best without all the sythetic hormonal crap.

oh and by the way its illegal to take steroids in the NFL...they actually test the players, because the goal is to have a level playing field.

dude, i go to the IFBB shows, I watch the Pro's and order the ppv, because i enjoy bodybuilding, period, but i prefer the natural physiques.
i'm for seperatin the men from the boys, with a level playing field with old school rules

As you know, I respect your opinion, I just don't see things the way you do.

With that being said, the sport starting from the early days has evolved into what it is today. Fact. And if you truly love something, unconditionally, you accept it, warts and all. I've accepted the reality of what bbing has become, and it's been a slow evolution on my part. For the greater part of two decades I cussed and bitched about the heavy drug use being a part of bbing, no different than you. I guess since I'm older, and single, and I've been around the block a few times, I just realize that life is short anyway, and I never had as much to lose as I thought I did, and I want my physique to look a certain way that can only be obtained with drugs. So let's get on with it, and enjoy every minute of this journey, and embrace it all. Go for it! I'm not saying this is the way everyone should feel, but it's the way I feel.

"Lesser" in a physique sense, definitely, and perhaps lesser in the balls department, but that's all.

This is a pretty complicated topic with endless angles open for discussion.

Remember, if everyone saw things the same way as you, it would be a pretty boring exsistence for all of us, Oh, and there would have been no Blonde Myth, No Dragonslayer, and no Austrian Oak.

Take care, nice talking to you! As usual.

[Quelly]

As you know, I respect your opinion, I just don't see things the way you do.

With that being said, the sport starting from the early days has evolved into what it is today. Fact. And if you truly love something, unconditionally, you accept it, warts and all. I've accepted the reality of what bbing has become, and it's been a slow evolution on my part. For the greater part of two decades I cussed and bitched about the heavy drug use being a part of bbing, no different than you. I guess since I'm older, and single, and I've been around the block a few times, I just realize that life is short anyway, and I never had as much to lose as I thought I did, and I want my physique to look a certain way that can only be obtained with drugs. So let's get on with it, and enjoy every minute of this journey, and embrace it all. Go for it! I'm not saying this is the way everyone should feel, but it's the way I feel.

"Lesser" in a physique sense, definitely, and perhaps lesser in the balls department, but that's all.

This is a pretty complicated topic with endless angles open for discussion.

Remember, if everyone saw things the same way as you, it would be a pretty boring exsistence for all of us, Oh, and there would have been no Blonde Myth, No Dragonslayer, and no Austrian Oak.

Take care, nice talking to you! As usual.

you must spread more repuation around before giving it to anabolism1000 again

I still disagree with you but I love the lack of flaming and the respect for others opinions...if I have anything else to add I'll be back

[TheSheepdog]

As you know, I respect your opinion, I just don't see things the way you do.

With that being said, the sport starting from the early days has evolved into what it is today. Fact. And if you truly love something, unconditionally, you accept it, warts and all. I've accepted the reality of what bbing has become, and it's been a slow evolution on my part. For the greater part of two decades I cussed and bitched about the heavy drug use being a part of bbing, no different than you. I guess since I'm older, and single, and I've been around the block a few times, I just realize that life is short anyway, and I never had as much to lose as I thought I did, and I want my physique to look a certain way that can only be obtained with drugs. So let's get on with it, and enjoy every minute of this journey, and embrace it all. Go for it! I'm not saying this is the way everyone should feel, but it's the way I feel.

"Lesser" in a physique sense, definitely, and perhaps lesser in the balls department, but that's all.

This is a pretty complicated topic with endless angles open for discussion.

Remember, if everyone saw things the same way as you, it would be a pretty boring exsistence for all of us, Oh, and there would have been no Blonde Myth, No Dragonslayer, and no Austrian Oak.

Take care, nice talking to you! As usual.

"lesser" in the balls department???? oh and by the way if i remember correctly, your clean now, why is that?

[Anabolism1000]

"lesser" in the balls department???? oh and by the way if i remember correctly, your clean now, why is that?

"Balls" in the sense that a fear of steroids prevents a bodybuilder from having the physique you know they want.

I've trained clean 15 out of the 20+ years I've trained. I made a huge mistake when I started bbing by getting with the juice after only training a couple years. I essentially started over training clean and reaching what I feel is my natural genetic limit of 220lbs at 5'7".

Always remember that a thread like this is nothing personal.

And BTW, neg reps is not appropriate if you merely disagree with someone's opinion. It should be for rude, obnoxious, insulting, or mean-spirited comments.

Great talking to you!