"Fierce 5" Comprehensive Program List

[davisj3537]

So I have a muscle imbalance in my shoulders(one is bigger than the other, no strength difference or pain whatsoever) and was adviced by ironwill to add in front raises 2 times a week, so I was wondering if that would be fine to add in to this program? Also, could you switch the overhead press to seated dumbellpress? Wondering this because I don't want my "bigger" side to take over during the lift. Perhaps change the barbell exercises with dumbells? Talking about the intermediate upper lower.

DB is fine. If Ironwill advised it then go with it.

[DarGwynn]

I just want to give my thanks for Davis for creating this routine. My strength has been skyrocketing with the beginner program for my first bulk.

Body weight: 158 > 177 lbs. Probably a lot of water weight b/c of creatine and more carbs.
Time frame: a little less than 3 months.

Bench press: 165x5 > 185x5. 225 1rm.
Squat: 285x5 > 345x5. 385 1rm.
Inclined DB press: 70x5 - 85x5.
Front squat: 205x5 > 265x5.

My bench and squat just now start to stall but I think I can squeeze the beginner routine a little bit more before switching to U/L.

[davisj3537]

I just want to give my thanks for Davis for creating this routine. My strength has been skyrocketing with the beginner program for my first bulk.

Body weight: 158 > 177 lbs. Probably a lot of water weight b/c of creatine and more carbs.
Time frame: a little less than 3 months.

Bench press: 165x5 > 185x5. 225 1rm.
Squat: 285x5 > 345x5. 385 1rm.
Inclined DB press: 70x5 - 85x5.
Front squat: 205x5 > 265x5.

My bench and squat just now start to stall but I think I can squeeze the beginner routine a little bit more before switching to U/L.

Bench was already good. Squat has exploded. Nice job man.

[DarGwynn]

Bench was already good. Squat has exploded. Nice job man.

Thanks man. I have the flexibility for squat so the movement feels very natural. Was getting slowed down at 315-325 lbs due to lower back started to give out. Switched to wearing belt and felt much easier. I still front squat beltless however.

Current goal right now is to milk this routine til I can rep 225 for bp and 365 for squat. My body is starting to break down though with injuries (fighting against right wrist and left shoulder currently).

[davisj3537]

Thanks man. I have the flexibility for squat so the movement feels very natural. Was getting slowed down at 315-325 lbs due to lower back started to give out. Switched to wearing belt and felt much easier. I still front squat beltless however.

Current goal right now is to milk this routine til I can rep 225 for bp and 365 for squat. My body is starting to break down though with injuries (fighting against right wrist and left shoulder currently).

If your body is beginning to face injuries it may be wise to seek a less frequent program and deload a bit. Listen to your body.

[cartermathis]

Hey I've been doing your upper/lower intermediate and I failed bench press again after dropping 10 percent today, and even dropped weight on all the other lifts to focus on form and failed on a few of those. But my lower body has been doing great and I've been able to increase each week but struggling still. do you think this means I'm in need of a deload?

[cgm9]

Few posts ago I was saying that I was experiencing some shoulder and elbow pain whilst benching.

I tried a new technique getting into position and ready for the bench and I felt that my shoulders were a lot more protected.

I also filmed my warm ups from the side and noticed that my elbows were in front of the bar by quite a bit, so I narrowed my grip, not by much but they were then in a much better position after this.

I managed to get 4 reps, 2 and then 2 again, last week i only managed 2, then 0, 0

So I will deload 10% and start again.

Also, my spotter noticed that I was tucking my elbows in on my right side, but on my left side they were flared out, this is the side which I've been experiencing pain also so I think i've definitely found the cause, and with the deload now i can practice on keeping the left elbow tucked, as I find it quite awkward to do so when I was incline benching after.

EDIT: i forgot to say that I felt no pain through out the whole work-out!

[davisj3537]

Hey I've been doing your upper/lower intermediate and I failed bench press again after dropping 10 percent today, and even dropped weight on all the other lifts to focus on form and failed on a few of those. But my lower body has been doing great and I've been able to increase each week but struggling still. do you think this means I'm in need of a deload?

Maybe. Hard to say without being in your shoes. Diet, sleep, motivation and a lack of a deload can all do that to you.

Few posts ago I was saying that I was experiencing some shoulder and elbow pain whilst benching.

I tried a new technique getting into position and ready for the bench and I felt that my shoulders were a lot more protected.

I also filmed my warm ups from the side and noticed that my elbows were in front of the bar by quite a bit, so I narrowed my grip, not by much but they were then in a much better position after this.

I managed to get 4 reps, 2 and then 2 again, last week i only managed 2, then 0, 0

So I will deload 10% and start again.

Also, my spotter noticed that I was tucking my elbows in on my right side, but on my left side they were flared out, this is the side which I've been experiencing pain also so I think i've definitely found the cause, and with the deload now i can practice on keeping the left elbow tucked, as I find it quite awkward to do so when I was incline benching after.

EDIT: i forgot to say that I felt no pain through out the whole work-out!

Post a video if you're needing help with form or grip placement. It can be tricky. Sounds like you're headed in the right direction.

[Dante828]

Hi Davis, I started the intermediate program today. However I do NOT have access to a leg press machine....I'm using a home gym and while it DOES offer a leg press extension addon, it's 300 dollars and from what I read on reviews, getting it just mounted on the home gym I use is a workout in itself. I am able to do every other exercise but this.

Can you recommend a sub or I simply will just have to skip it.

Also, I would like to pick your brain on what a good starting weight would be for the new routine.

For example, for the novice routine:

squat 100lbs> 310lbs plateau, so because the weight progression is slower for the intermediate, I was thinking of maybe starting (for squats anyway) at 170-190. Also my bench was 70lbs> 205lbs, so I started today back down at 140. Is this too light? Will I still grow?

[davisj3537]

Hi Davis, I started the intermediate program today. However I do NOT have access to a leg press machine....I'm using a home gym and while it DOES offer a leg press extension addon, it's 300 dollars and from what I read on reviews, getting it just mounted on the home gym I use is a workout in itself. I am able to do every other exercise but this.

Can you recommend a sub or I simply will just have to skip it.

Also, I would like to pick your brain on what a good starting weight would be for the new routine.

For example, for the novice routine:

squat 100lbs> 310lbs plateau, so because the weight progression is slower for the intermediate, I was thinking of maybe starting (for squats anyway) at 170-190. Also my bench was 70lbs> 205lbs, so I started today back down at 140. Is this too light? Will I still grow?

Front squats, step ups, walking lunges and hack squats would all be good subs for leg press.

As for starting weight- if you're squatting 310 for 3x5 then you'd probably want to start the intermediate routine around 275 or so. About 10% drop from the novice weights. Same goes for bench.

Awesome progress man. Seriously! How long did it take you to progress that far?

[Thompsoba]

I just started The Intermediate Upper/Lower routine today. So far I like it. My only problem is that I get done too quick! I have about 1 3/4 - 2 hours in the morning to workout before work (I'm an early bird and there's less people). This morning I got done with Upper A in 1 1/4 hours! I still had 30-45 more minutes I could workout! I want to add more stuff but I'm not because of the balance that is mentioned. So I did some cardio to finish it out.

I keep track of everything on my phone but I might start a log soon. Haven't decided yet.

[bob1986]

Using a home gym setup and curious about something.

Here's what lower A looks like right now:

Low bar back squat
Barbell hack squat
Weighted Back extensions
DB leg curl
Plank
Calf raises

Is there a way to sub in hip thrusts? I'd love to hit my Posterior Chain a little harder and it's hard to do it with dumbbell leg curls. I didn't see a way to do it in the faq, but could maybe dropping hack squats and dumbbell leg Curls and putting in hip thrusts and leg extensions work? Would this even be worth it? Sorry if this is a dumb question. Just thought hip thrusts would be a great accessory to squat and a good way to hit the posterior chain.

[davisj3537]

I just started The Intermediate Upper/Lower routine today. So far I like it. My only problem is that I get done too quick! I have about 1 3/4 - 2 hours in the morning to workout before work (I'm an early bird and there's less people). This morning I got done with Upper A in 1 1/4 hours! I still had 30-45 more minutes I could workout! I want to add more stuff but I'm not because of the balance that is mentioned. So I did some cardio to finish it out.

I keep track of everything on my phone but I might start a log soon. Haven't decided yet.

Warming/stretching up can always be extended. It's important. Also as the weights get heavy you'll start taking longer rest times. Cardio is a good way to use the last 30 minutes though. Great for your heart.

Using a home gym setup and curious about something.

Here's what lower A looks like right now:

Low bar back squat
Barbell hack squat
Weighted Back extensions
DB leg curl
Plank
Calf raises

Is there a way to sub in hip thrusts? I'd love to hit my Posterior Chain a little harder and it's hard to do it with dumbbell leg curls. I didn't see a way to do it in the faq, but could maybe dropping hack squats and dumbbell leg Curls and putting in hip thrusts and leg extensions work? Would this even be worth it? Sorry if this is a dumb question. Just thought hip thrusts would be a great accessory to squat and a good way to hit the posterior chain.

I think they would work well in place of back extensions. The work similar muscles.

[Dante828]

Front squats, step ups, walking lunges and hack squats would all be good subs for leg press.

As for starting weight- if you're squatting 310 for 3x5 then you'd probably want to start the intermediate routine around 275 or so. About 10% drop from the novice weights. Same goes for bench.

Awesome progress man. Seriously! How long did it take you to progress that far?

Thanks lol. I started the novice routine in late April. I really wanted to run it into the ground so I could get as strong as I could for the intermediate. I had to reset a couple of times for some exercises.

So for the new exercises introduced like flies and such it's pretty much use best judgement?

[bob1986]

I think they would work well in place of back extensions. The work similar muscles.

Oh ok cool so sub I in place of back extensions? so it would look like this:

Squat
Hip thrust
Hack squat
Leg curl
Plank
Calf raises

Correct?

[tuh888]

is the incline bench press in Upper/Lower routine in dumbell or barbell?

[Nevin107]

should i switch out inclilne for ohp? i want to work my upper chest but still am scared my shoulders will be underdevloped? do i need ohp?

[MyEgoProblem]

is the incline bench press in Upper/Lower routine in dumbell or barbell?

Either mate, whatever you like. do what you feel is best for YOU. BUT i would have at least one barbell pressing movement in your routine somewhere^^

should i switch out inclilne for ohp? i want to work my upper chest but still am scared my shoulders will be underdeveloped? do i need ohp?

You dont need ohp. Trust the programming. But do what you want (it is a substitution afte rall) just be consistent and don't keep swapping and changing things around over thinking it. Just put in the hard work, eat your food and your results will come.
This kind of over thinking often leads to PARALYSIS BY ANALYSIS.

Benching smashes your front delts hard as hell...
ohp hits your upper chest too...

Its a sliding scale, incline is a little more chest dominant, press a little more delt dominant.

And NO your delts wont be under developed. you can develop HUGE front delts from just flat benching.

Oh ok cool so sub I in place of back extensions? so it would look like this:

Squat
Hip thrust
Hack squat
Leg curl
Plank
Calf raises

Correct?

looks legit to me.

[bob1986]

looks legit to me.

Cool. I'm taking a full week off next week and going on an anniversary trip with my wife. When I get back I might switch to that and I'm gonna start cutting too. Hopefully, I only have to cut about 3 months then back to bulk!

[davisj3537]

Thanks lol. I started the novice routine in late April. I really wanted to run it into the ground so I could get as strong as I could for the intermediate. I had to reset a couple of times for some exercises.

So for the new exercises introduced like flies and such it's pretty much use best judgement?

You mind sending me all your starting weights and final weights. I'm thinking about putting your results on the front page as a success story.

Yeah just use your judgment on new exercises. With this much time in the gym you should really be getting some decent instincts.

Oh ok cool so sub I in place of back extensions? so it would look like this:

Squat
Hip thrust
Hack squat
Leg curl
Plank
Calf raises

Correct?

Yes sir

[Dante828]

You mind sending me all your starting weights and final weights. I'm thinking about putting your results on the front page as a success story.

Yeah just use your judgment on new exercises. With this much time in the gym you should really be getting some decent instincts.

Check your PM.

[tuh888]

Am I missing something if I will do both bench press and incline bench press in Barbell for Upper/Lower Routine? Thanks to myegoproblems

[jrpl]

I've got a question regarding postural programs. Are those intend to be used with mild upper back scoliosis as well? It's not really kyphosis so I'm not sure which program from suggested in the list shall be used.

[davisj3537]

Am I missing something if I will do both bench press and incline bench press in Barbell for Upper/Lower Routine? Thanks to myegoproblems

BB or DB is fine.

I've got a question regarding postural programs. Are those intend to be used with mild upper back scoliosis as well? It's not really kyphosis so I'm not sure which program from suggested in the list shall be used.

I'd suggest you see a physiotherapist for this. I've got no experience with such issues and it's very unlikely someone with adequate knowledge would give advice over the internet for it. It requires an in person exam.

[jrpl]

I'd suggest you see a physiotherapist for this. I've got no experience with such issues and it's very unlikely someone with adequate knowledge would give advice over the internet for it. It requires an in person exam.

Fair enough. It's actually something my wife deals with though my first idea was to consult physiotherapist as the best option. Thanks for confirming.

[davisj3537]

Fair enough. It's actually something my wife deals with though my first idea was to consult physiotherapist as the best option. Thanks for confirming.

For sure man. Good luck. Should be covered by insurance.

[rotsbu]

Happy Thanksgiving to all the Fierce Fivers out there.

[shades20]

Hey, couple questions about the Lordosis routine. If i'm not doing the Kyphosos part, I can just substitute the upper routine from the Intermediate program, correct? On the ab work, should I shoot for a rep/time range or just 3 sets till failure/fatigue? Also you mentioned planks but dont those work lower back a lot, as well? Any other specific ab exercise recommendations? Thanks man, looking forward to trying this.

[davisj3537]

Hey, couple questions about the Lordosis routine. If i'm not doing the Kyphosos part, I can just substitute the upper routine from the Intermediate program, correct? On the ab work, should I shoot for a rep/time range or just 3 sets till failure/fatigue? Also you mentioned planks but dont those work lower back a lot, as well? Any other specific ab exercise recommendations? Thanks man, looking forward to trying this.

Correct you use the normal upper portion. As for abs I'd just kind of do it by feel. Try to add reps or reduce rest time over the long term. Planks should primarily target your front side if you are keeping your back flat. If you arch your back then it takes focus off the abs a bit and places it on the back. Same kind of thing for the ab wheel. Slightly rounding your back will prevent this.

Someone posted a video a few pages back about lordosis friendly ab exercises that made a lot of sense. Go check it out. I actually edited the routine slightly after it was posted.

[Thompsoba]

I just started The Intermediate Upper/Lower this week and I have a question. Can I run this 5 days a week instead of taking Wed off? So it would be Mon-Upper A, Tue-Lower A, Wed-Upper B, Thu-Lower B, Fri-Upper A, Sat & Sun rest, Mon-Lower A, Tue-Upper B, Wed-Lower B, Thu-Upper A, Fri-Lower A. During the week I found that if I don't go to the gym before work then I'm tired all dang day! I would prefer to run it like this but wanted to check here first. If not then I guess I could do 1 1/2 hours of cardio on Wed's.