How to lose fat for Noobs - Part II

[wlriddick]

Hi wlriddick,

Nowhere in this thread are you told 'No Carbs after 5?' You can eat your carbs when ever you feel like it. If you read the whole of page 50 you will see this question has already been answered in detail.

Thanks..

[Dubsington]

How do you loose fat if you cant loose much weight. I'm 5'9 and about 140 so I'm already underweight as is. I started lifting about several months ago and noticed nice muscle gains but my body comp didn't change much. I recently cut down to 140 in an attempt to rid myself of my persistent belly fat but instead I mostly lost fat from my arms and maybe chest. I'm kind of at a loss as to what to do next.

[wade6307]

How do you loose fat if you cant loose much weight. I'm 5'9 and about 140 so I'm already underweight as is. I started lifting about several months ago and noticed nice muscle gains but my body comp didn't change much. I recently cut down to 140 in an attempt to rid myself of my persistent belly fat but instead I mostly lost fat from my arms and maybe chest. I'm kind of at a loss as to what to do next.

when you lose body fat, your entire body will lose fat, not just one part of the body. ( spot reduction broscience) i would have to see some pic and maybe find out what your bf% is. 140 sounds small to me for a person that is 5'9. but my body frame is much more broad so my judgement could be wrong.

i guess the best thing for you to do to get more or better advice would be to find your bf% and post pics so everyone can understand your problem

[ryoaska1]

How do you loose fat if you cant loose much weight. I'm 5'9 and about 140 so I'm already underweight as is. I started lifting about several months ago and noticed nice muscle gains but my body comp didn't change much. I recently cut down to 140 in an attempt to rid myself of my persistent belly fat but instead I mostly lost fat from my arms and maybe chest. I'm kind of at a loss as to what to do next.

You said your body comp didn't change, but then you go on to say you saw muscle gains and lost fat from your arms and chest. Lost fat, gained muscle- sounds like positive comp change to me. I would say just keep at it and stay patient.

[TheEther24]

Hello Gents, am back to follow up on the satiety discussion from a while back and me trying out some shirataki to help. I ended up ordering a lot of it in bulk and can happily say that anytime I need a big low calorie meal because I'm feeling exceptionally hungry, I incorporate shirataki and usually some type of fish. Fish is the best protein source for satiety/volume AFAIK, so that in conjunction with shirataki is very filling.

Typical meal will be a 15oz serving of shiratak which is 25 calories along with lots of veggies which is low in calories as well (i do about 25 calories worth). I then use the "kernel seasoning"/"popcorn seasoning" brand seasoning of "Parmesan and Garlic" as well as other spices. Just the noodles and veggies alone is enough to fill up an entire plate and is only 50 calories or so. Then I will usually have 1lb/16oz (~400 calories) worth of Shrimp or Tilapia w/ some type of sweet and sour or alfredo sauce (50 calorie) which makes for a very filling and tasty 500 calorie meal

I've found the shirataki tastes much better when cooking in a frying pan to get rid of the slimy, wet texture so that it doesn't water down your seasoning or sauce that you're using.

[jsinher3]

im kinda noob at this but when working out 3days a week and following the guide wavelength said how much should the reps be should it be 3 reps of 10/20/50/100?

[Harry815]

Also you can't advise 1 gram per 1lb body weight to a very over weight person as it would be a silly amount of protein to try and eat every day.

Thanks for this! I weigh around 245 and it seems impossible to eat that much protein in a day.

[wade6307]

im kinda noob at this but when working out 3days a week and following the guide wavelength said how much should the reps be should it be 3 reps of 10/20/50/100?

If you lifting really heavy 8 reps are good. But in general if your lifting to build or preserve muscle your rep range is about 8-12 reps per set.

[rexio83]

Thanks for this! I weigh around 245 and it seems impossible to eat that much protein in a day.

Thats because it's 1g protein / 1lb of lean body mass not total body weight

[wade6307]

Thats because it's 1g protein / 1lb of lean body mass not total body weight

I second that notion. Yes its based off your lmbo the formula is back in the front and I think its talked about multiple times in this sticky. I can be hard for me as well (I weigh 250ish) but I have found that trying to fit a piece of meat or beans in a meal helps along with protein shakes. They really help suppressing my appetite and do a damn fine job of the pre and post workout. Im not a person that operates well in the gym or playing sports just after I eat. And doing either of those when I haven't eaten in a while really cripples performance as well. So I pop a protein shake pre and post and not only is my appetite good to go. I deffinately got aprotein damn good amount of protein for the day.

[ryoaska1]

Thats because it's 1g protein / 1lb of lean body mass not total body weight

I think he realized that, and that was the point of his post. He's responding "thanks" to mozzi's post (response to my question about why some people say LBM, and some say total)

[mozzi101]

I think he realized that, and that was the point of his post. He's responding "thanks" to mozzi's post (response to my question about why some people say LBM, and some say total)

Thanks ryoaska1,

Wanted to clear that up but was having problems logging in. Yes calculating your protein amount within the 3 rules of this thread is done based on LBM not total body weight, but to understand it is just a proximate formula to insure that you are getting enough protein to preserve your muscle mass.

Ps. Just for interest I have recently come off my cut and am now trying to re find my maintenance at this lower weight.
I haven't reached my target body fat yet and guess I am around 16 -17 % still but I figured I needed a break as I have been doing this for a few months now.

I am undecided as to either start a slow bulk, re comp or jump back into the cut and gun it for 12 %. Problem is getting this small is getting really de motivating for me as being a complete newb I have little muscle to start with, so I will tread water for a bit until my mind is made up but any suggestions or opinions would be welcome.

[sportyaccordy]

How do you loose fat if you cant loose much weight. I'm 5'9 and about 140 so I'm already underweight as is. I started lifting about several months ago and noticed nice muscle gains but my body comp didn't change much. I recently cut down to 140 in an attempt to rid myself of my persistent belly fat but instead I mostly lost fat from my arms and maybe chest. I'm kind of at a loss as to what to do next.

Body fat comes off from different places at different times. For chicks the last place for weight to come off is generally the lower abdomen/hips/thighs. For dudes it's the gut. I am cutting now and I lost well beyond the weight I was hoping to... and I'm still nowhere close to the level of leanness I want. When it comes to cutting... IME anyway it always takes longer than you hoped, and you always need to lose more weight than you thought to get to where you wanna be. It takes time.

Thanks for this! I weigh around 245 and it seems impossible to eat that much protein in a day.

I was unaware that it was 1g/lb lean mass. I've seen both (lean mass & overall mass). But I only weigh about 177 now and I still average about 200g. My diet is very meat/protein biased though. Today's a lift day so I am aiming for ~2500kcal...

Lunch- plate of Jamaican food- ~1000kcal, ~70-80g pro
Dinner- 1.5lb of chicken, salad- ~1000kcal, ~120g pro
Post work out meal- 75g whey shake- ~300kcal, 72g pro

That's 260g right there... I biked in to work, which is good for about 400kcal, so I will prob have something to cover that. 400kcal of protein is another 100g... I will prob realistically have like 50 more grams though. That's 300+.

[iDrive]

I am undecided as to either start a slow bulk, re comp or jump back into the cut and gun it for 12 %. Problem is getting this small is getting really de motivating for me as being a complete newb I have little muscle to start with, so I will tread water for a bit until my mind is made up but any suggestions or opinions would be welcome.

It's all personal preference.

Typically I suggest cut until happy then re-comp.
Some cut until happy and then bulk.
Some cut until they feel small and then bulk.
I've been perpetually cutting for 3 years(fail)


You'll have to decide for yourself but also realize you're probably going to get a lot smaller than you originally thought to look how you want and it's going to take a lot longer to build muscle than you think.

[phoenixr2]

You'll have to decide for yourself but also realize you're probably going to get a lot smaller than you originally thought to look how you want and it's going to take a lot longer to build muscle than you think.

so very true. Good thing its a lifestyle change for us and we are in it for the long haul right!

[mozzi101]

It's all personal preference.

Typically I suggest cut until happy then re-comp.
Some cut until happy and then bulk.
Some cut until they feel small and then bulk.
I've been perpetually cutting for 3 years(fail)


You'll have to decide for yourself but also realize you're probably going to get a lot smaller than you originally thought to look how you want and it's going to take a lot longer to build muscle than you think.

Thanks iDrive,

I was hoping you would respond and I will take your suggestion seriously. Re-comp does appeal and I have been thinking about it, it's just that it seems to get negged a lot as a super slow process but I can't say I have ever seen any actual data to support that, especially in comparison to the time wasted and muscle loss having to go through the cutting process. I will spend some more time investigating that I think.

Honestly I have no illusions about the time involved in this sport, my info has it at 1 pound of lean muscle mass gained per month under optimal conditions as best likely result. And I have read so many testaments as to the struggle and time it takes to get down to low digit bf and I have my own personal experience as to what it feels like going through this shrinking process.

What I am less clear about is people that start out with very little muscle but some body fat and what is the best direction for them to go, get some muscle first and then cut? or is a newb supposed ideally to cut to 10% regardless of body condition and then start body building, seems like the skinny fats slip through the research and the advice given out is split, re-comp seems to fit the middle ground here so is probably correct.

Also i'm not sure how my age is going to play into this either but I have been checking out this 'Ironwill2008' guy and he did ok starting from about where I am age wise at least, so I know it can be done, he is 70 now I think, looks freaking awsome!.

Thanks again

[sportyaccordy]

mozzi,

I think what it ultimately comes down to is optimizing the rate of weight gain/loss.

For someone who is skinny-fat, I think it would be ideal to focus on building a foundation of strength. If you do that while keeping fat gain to a minimum, which really just means not putting on more than ~.5-1lb a week, you will either lean out as you get stronger, or you will put on such little fat that trimming down won't be an issue.

So many people have gone through that "dirty bulk" and retrenched that it's clear one can get stronger w/o completely gorging.

So the short answer is, lift heavy + high volume (WRT your strength), and eat so that you are gaining no more than 1lb/week. Gauge your progress in muscle growth by your strength.

[ryoaska1]

You'll have to decide for yourself but also realize you're probably going to get a lot smaller than you originally thought to look how you want and it's going to take a lot longer to build muscle than you think.

Is this mainly why you suggest cut and then recomp as opposed to cutting all the way down first? I've also been thinking about what to do in that regard... I'm just over 6ft, 193lbs and i'm guessing around 24% bodyfat now? I feel like I need to lose at least another 15-20lbs or so, but that still wouldn't put me at a very low bodyfat. But I feel like if I cut down to like 12% then I would look grossly underweight and feel weak... Other than a little bit of gut just barely still poking out, I'm actually pretty happy with my overall size, so I'm thinking maybe cut a little bit more then just start recomping for a while until I get to a bf% i'm happy with.

Everyone says that recomping is slow, but it sounds like they mean only one side of if (like you won't lose fat as fast as on a cut, or you won't gain muscle as fast as on a bulk). But if you take both into account, is recomping to a certain composition any slower than it would have taken you to first cut, then bulk to get to the same point?

[iDrive]

Is this mainly why you suggest cut and then recomp as opposed to cutting all the way down first?

IMO, I would rather cut down to where I'm comfortable (10-12%) then recomp to add size rather than cut down to 10-12% then bulk back up to 18-20% and diet back down like many of the traditional cut/fulk (fat bulk) cycles do.

Many people use the fulk cycles to get fat then cut down to maybe a few pounds more than they were at the leanest.... I think it's much more efficient to get to a place where you like the look of your body and just stay there while hitting the gym hard and trying to gain minimal amounts of weight... like 1lb/mo.

"If you stay ready, you ain't gotta get ready"

Everyone says that recomping is slow, but it sounds like they mean only one side of if (like you won't lose fat as fast as on a cut, or you won't gain muscle as fast as on a bulk). But if you take both into account, is recomping to a certain composition any slower than it would have taken you to first cut, then bulk to get to the same point?

Depends on how you approach it but it's easy to get lost in a no-mans land with re-comping that many people don't like. They'd rather at least see themselves changing rather than staying the same (which is why I recommend recomping at a BF% you like the look of)

Everything is 100% personal preference though as everyone's goals are different

[ryoaska1]

IMO, I would rather cut down to where I'm comfortable (10-12%) then recomp to add size rather than cut down to 10-12% then bulk back up to 18-20% and diet back down like many of the traditional cut/fulk (fat bulk) cycles do.

Many people use the fulk cycles to get fat then cut down to maybe a few pounds more than they were at the leanest.... I think it's much more efficient to get to a place where you like the look of your body and just stay there while hitting the gym hard and trying to gain minimal amounts of weight... like 1lb/mo.

"If you stay ready, you ain't gotta get ready"



Depends on how you approach it but it's easy to get lost in a no-mans land with re-comping that many people don't like. They'd rather at least see themselves changing rather than staying the same (which is why I recommend recomping at a BF% you like the look of)

Everything is 100% personal preference though as everyone's goals are different

Thanks for the feedback. Idk for now I think i'll stay on track to cut down to 170-175 and see how I feel when I get there. I'd love to cut down to 12% bf, but I don't think it will be a good look for me without having more muscle, haha...

I want to try and find some pictures of what something like a mass difference of say 5lbs pure muscle looks like. Cuz I am definitely someone who gets motivated by seeing my improvements like you mentioned.

[mozzi101]

mozzi,

I think what it ultimately comes down to is optimizing the rate of weight gain/loss.

For someone who is skinny-fat, I think it would be ideal to focus on building a foundation of strength. If you do that while keeping fat gain to a minimum, which really just means not putting on more than ~.5-1lb a week, you will either lean out as you get stronger, or you will put on such little fat that trimming down won't be an issue.

So many people have gone through that "dirty bulk" and retrenched that it's clear one can get stronger w/o completely gorging.

So the short answer is, lift heavy + high volume (WRT your strength), and eat so that you are gaining no more than 1lb/week. Gauge your progress in muscle growth by your strength.

Thanks sporty,

I am working on the 'lift heavy + high volume' and the slow bulk is what I would most like to do and may still do in the end. I can see the logic for this method also, for me it would mean paying strict attention to my waist measurement as I am distrustful of how I see myself in the mirror, my waist was quite consistent while I was losing weight so I am quite confident that will be the tell for me if i'm bloating to fast, so allow maybe a max of 3 extra inches over 3 months as a rough and then cut them off again if need be at the end or earlier or later depending. I am currently maintaining so I am already getting prepped transition wise if i do go that route.

My fear of the bulk is because I tried it when I first started back in March, I was at a much higher body fat and got fat really quick. The main problem was I didn't understand the nutrition so although I was eating the right foods I was eating way too much of them. The weird part was it actually looked and felt like I was getting bigger from the weight training, I looked great in my clothes and although I had a slight gut people kept telling me it was nothing to worry about, only my wife was freaking out about it saying I was getting fat lol!
If I had been tracking my waist I would have caught it earlier I think, this is why I don't trust mirrors.

Thanks again for your inputs sporty they will help me a lot in making a final decision.

I still haven't ruled out getting back onto the cut again after this break, any cut to the bone advocates?

[sportyaccordy]

ryosaka,

I would worry less about the weight # and more about aesthetics. I started cutting at about 192 at what I think was a lower body fat than yours (~15%?)... I'm down to about 177 now and I'm still not as lean as I hoped (which I guess means I am fatter than I thought). At 190lb + 20% BF, you'll prob have to get down to about 165 or so to be in the single digits.

mozzi101,

I think cutting to the bone is a good idea. Any strength loss will come back quickly and if you manage your diet right you will regain that strength w/o regaining the fat.

[cardiffGIANT]

ryosaka,

I would worry less about the weight # and more about aesthetics. I started cutting at about 192 at what I think was a lower body fat than yours (~15%?)... I'm down to about 177 now and I'm still not as lean as I hoped (which I guess means I am fatter than I thought). At 190lb + 20% BF, you'll prob have to get down to about 165 or so to be in the single digits.

totally agree. weighed in at 173 today and still have PLENTY of work to do.

[ryoaska1]

ryosaka,

I would worry less about the weight # and more about aesthetics. I started cutting at about 192 at what I think was a lower body fat than yours (~15%?)... I'm down to about 177 now and I'm still not as lean as I hoped (which I guess means I am fatter than I thought). At 190lb + 20% BF, you'll prob have to get down to about 165 or so to be in the single digits.

mozzi101,

I think cutting to the bone is a good idea. Any strength loss will come back quickly and if you manage your diet right you will regain that strength w/o regaining the fat.

Thanks. The reason I'm a little confused is because that WAS actually what I was talking about (going with Aesthetics vs weight). What I'm thinking is that if I cut down to the bodyfat level that i'm happy with, it will NOT be aesthetic, haha... You guys look like you have a good bit of muscle on compared to me- if I hit single digits I'd proably look sick and starved...
That's why I was thinking maybe cut down to 175 or so and then recomp for a while so I could continue losing bf and also gain some muscle. Would probably happen slowly, but I was thinking it would look better. I'm pretty new to all of this though, so I am open to and appreciate all the advice you guys are giving.

[Pharshballa]

Thanks sporty,

I am working on the 'lift heavy + high volume' and the slow bulk is what I would most like to do and may still do in the end. I can see the logic for this method also, for me it would mean paying strict attention to my waist measurement as I am distrustful of how I see myself in the mirror, my waist was quite consistent while I was losing weight so I am quite confident that will be the tell for me if i'm bloating to fast, so allow maybe a max of 3 extra inches over 3 months as a rough and then cut them off again if need be at the end or earlier or later depending. I am currently maintaining so I am already getting prepped transition wise if i do go that route.

My fear of the bulk is because I tried it when I first started back in March, I was at a much higher body fat and got fat really quick. The main problem was I didn't understand the nutrition so although I was eating the right foods I was eating way too much of them. The weird part was it actually looked and felt like I was getting bigger from the weight training, I looked great in my clothes and although I had a slight gut people kept telling me it was nothing to worry about, only my wife was freaking out about it saying I was getting fat lol!
If I had been tracking my waist I would have caught it earlier I think, this is why I don't trust mirrors.

Thanks again for your inputs sporty they will help me a lot in making a final decision.

I still haven't ruled out getting back onto the cut again after this break, any cut to the bone advocates?

Could you explain what you mean by too much of the right foods and how you didn't understand the nutrition? Bulking requires more food no? Have an example of what you were eating and what you should have been eating?
Thanks

[driven009]

I will definitely be trying this because I need to amp up my fat loss as soon as possible. Thanks for the advice.

[mozzi101]

Could you explain what you mean by too much of the right foods and how you didn't understand the nutrition? Bulking requires more food no? Have an example of what you were eating and what you should have been eating?
Thanks

Sure Pharshballa, quite simply if you eat too many calories over maintenance during a bulk you will get fat, you do need to eat a surplus but not a huge one like I did. I was doing ok in terms of the types of food i was eating in that they gave good calorie and nutrient economy to help with muscle building but I was just eating too much so I got fat very quickly, there was no way my body could process that amount of food into lean muscle in that time frame I was eating it, so it got stored as fat.

Examples of foods I was eating was a lot of eggs, a lot of raw peanuts, red kidney beans, chicken, veg, pasta, oats, milk, fruit, bread. Right kinds of foods generally but I had no clue about measuring the calories at that time so I was just shoving in as much as I could as per the advice I was reading on the internet regarding bulking, what is jokingly referred to the " sea food diet" as in see food, eat it.

Maybe a 17 year old Ectomorph could have pulled it off but i'm 46 lol!

Due to my lack of nutritional knowledge at that time I bulked when I should have been cutting, I ate calories way over what I needed and to cap it off, I had recently given up smoking.

If I was to do another bulk, I would first establish my maintenance calorie needs then gradually increase my calories in steps of maybe 250 cals and monitor fat gain and muscle gain, I would keep adjusting calories until I was happy with a safe amount of weight gain per month.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...68-mcd01.hydra

[pippen336]

What exactly is a recomp? Just eating at maintainence and lifting heavy?

[dropkickcassie]

THank You for the information. Very to the point.

[fenderstrato]

How closely should I watch my fruit consumption for fat loss? Right now, I'm eating pretty clean but my diet includes a fair amount of fruit. For example, I may do a mango/banana smoothie for breakfast, a banana with my protein after a workout, and an apple or orange (or both) with dinner. I have a feeling this may be too much sugar for a fat burning diet. I've read many different opinions on this, with some articles saying sugar ought to be cut out almost entirely while others place importance on fruit and sweet veggies. What do you guys think? Should I ease off the fruit or stay the course?