Writeup for Rippetoe's program

[Chris Tempest]

well yeah, I wouldnt start with your 5 rep maxes. I dont know how much exactly of a beginner one must be to use this program. But I assume it would work regardless. If not you could try this routine.

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...Linear_5x5.htm

It had pretty much the same concepts, but doesnt go at them the same exact way. Its for intermediate lifters. Again I dont know how you determine if someone is intermediate or beginner. My guess is beginner is someone who had never lifted weight before. Then intermediate is whatever is after that. And then there is a huge gap between intermediate and advanced

Thanks again,

I'll give this a go, I'm sure it would still work.

I'll make sure none of my lifts are 5 rep max otherwise theres no chance I'll be able to increase the weight the next week, even if I did it would be impossible the following week.

Actually, I cant remember the guys name but after asking about the 5x5 which is for intermediate I was told I should give the starting strength program a shot first as I probably wouldn't be ready for 5x5 yet.

Again I'd just love to make some strength gains, if I get stronger the mass will come later.

[RavensFan2k3]

I've been helping people in this thread alot, but I have been wondering myself. I was wondering how someone would know if they should be doing this program or Bill Starr's Intermediate 5x5. Let me know if I am looking at this right. You should be doing Rippetoe's program is you are a beginner and have never lifted weights before? Is that true?

[RavensFan2k3]

I've been helping people in this thread alot, but I have been wondering myself. I was wondering how someone would know if they should be doing this program or Bill Starr's Intermediate 5x5. Let me know if I am looking at this right. You should be doing Rippetoe's program is you are a beginner and have never lifted weights before? Is that true?

anyone?

[GSP]

anyone?

I'm certainly no expert on the topic, but I'd say if the trainee doesn't have a year of so of solid progression in Squat, Deadlift, Bench, Row, etc, Rippetoe's routine would be a good place to start. There's really no downside to starting with 3X5 instead of 5X5, if progression can be had with the lower volume, great. If not, go 5X5, the 3X5 to start might even be a nice transition into the higher total workloads from the 5X5.

[RavensFan2k3]

I'm certainly no expert on the topic, but I'd say if the trainee doesn't have a year of so of solid progression in Squat, Deadlift, Bench, Row, etc, Rippetoe's routine would be a good place to start. There's really no downside to starting with 3X5 instead of 5X5, if progression can be had with the lower volume, great. If not, go 5X5, the 3X5 to start might even be a nice transition into the higher total workloads from the 5X5.

Thanks for your input...with my situation, I'm relatively a beginner(but obviously I'm pretty knowlegable). I've lifted before so I'm not a TOTAL noob to lifting weights. I started with the 5x5 without even knowing about Rippetoe's beginner program. I'm no small fry either about 6'4'' 220. I'm making good gains with the the 5x5 but the thing is I'm concerned that I could be making gains faster than once a week at two times a week with Rippetoe's program. Also I'm interested in knowing the difference between pyramiding the weight up to a top set of 5 rather than having straight sets of the same weight. Also I was alittle confused in your last statement. You're saying that the 5x5 has higher workloads than the 3x5 right?

[Chris Tempest]

I've been helping people in this thread alot, but I have been wondering myself. I was wondering how someone would know if they should be doing this program or Bill Starr's Intermediate 5x5. Let me know if I am looking at this right. You should be doing Rippetoe's program is you are a beginner and have never lifted weights before? Is that true?

Are you looking to start this program too or just curious?

[Chris Tempest]

Thanks for your input...with my situation, I'm relatively a beginner(but obviously I'm pretty knowlegable). I've lifted before so I'm not a TOTAL noob to lifting weights. I started with the 5x5 without even knowing about Rippetoe's beginner program. I'm no small fry either about 6'4'' 220. I'm making good gains with the the 5x5 but the thing is I'm concerned that I could be making gains faster than once a week at two times a week with Rippetoe's program. Also I'm interested in knowing the difference between pyramiding the weight up to a top set of 5 rather than having straight sets of the same weight. Also I was alittle confused in your last statement. You're saying that the 5x5 has higher workloads than the 3x5 right?

The volume is higher as you're doing 5 working sets for each movement instead of 3.

[RavensFan2k3]

Are you looking to start this program too or just curious?

well i dont know. I'm doing Bill Starr's 5x5 in the link that I gave you. But it seems that there are people with more experience than me but are still doing Rippetoe's beginner program. I just dont want to be missing out on gains that I have been getting

The volume is higher as you're doing 5 working sets for each movement instead of 3.

Yeah, but you still count the warmup sets into the workload in addition to the 3 working sets. So since you are doing the final set 3 times, the weight used will be less than the final set in the 5x5, but how much lower? Is it close to the same amount of weight uses in the 4th set in the 5x5?

[GSP]

Also I was alittle confused in your last statement. You're saying that the 5x5 has higher workloads than the 3x5 right?

Higher workload in terms of total poundage.

For a simple example,

3X5 of 100 lbs. would be 1500 lbs lifted

5X5, ramping from 60 to 100 would be 2000 lbs. lifted - 2500 lbs with 5 straight@100 lbs.

[RavensFan2k3]

Higher workload in terms of total poundage.

For a simple example,

3X5 of 100 lbs. would be 1500 lbs lifted

5X5, ramping from 60 to 100 would be 2000 lbs. lifted - 2500 lbs with 5 straight@100 lbs.

Yeah but you have to add the warmup sets for the 3x5 into the total workload poundage.

[GSP]

Yeah but you have to add the warmup sets for the 3x5 into the total workload poundage.

fair enough. The couple people I know on 5X5 still warm-up though, so I was just considering that part a wash.

[RavensFan2k3]

fair enough. The couple people I know on 5X5 still warm-up though, so I was just considering that part a wash.

But in the first post, look at the example given about warmup sets...

Warm-up Sets:

Before all your working sets it is best to do a few warm-up sets. Specifically for your first lift. You don’t have to do the whole thing for the other lifts but definitely the first.

What you do is you ramp your weight up to your working sets.

For example:

2x5xbar (sets x reps x weight)
1x5x85
1x3x125
1x2x155

And the working set weight would be 175.

Look how close the final warmup set is to the working set's weight

In the 5x5 if you warmed up before, it would be with weight lower than your first set, even thought your first set is nearly 50% of your final set

[GSP]

But in the first post, look at the example given about warmup sets...

Look how close the final warmup set is to the working set's weight

In the 5x5 if you warmed up before, it would be with weight lower than your first set, even thought your first set is nearly 50% of your final set

In Madcow's 5X5 intermediate training template, he reccomends only counting the working sets towards tonnage since the overall effect from the warm-ups is so minimal.

That's about as far as I can answer though, as I just don't know enough about the topic to go any further!

[RavensFan2k3]

In Madcow's 5X5 intermediate training template, he reccomends only counting the working sets towards tonnage since the overall effect from the warm-ups is so minimal.

That's about as far as I can answer though, as I just don't know enough about the topic to go any further!

all five sets are the working sets, right? I was talking about counting the warmup sets just for Rippetoe's program since the weight is pretty close to the working sets weight

[GSP]

all five sets are the working sets, right? I was talking about counting the warmup sets just for Rippetoe's program since the weight is pretty close to the working sets weight

Back to an earlier point, Rippetoe's warm-up scheme is fairly commonplace. It's normal to warm-up with the bar at 8-10 reps, then ramp-up to 1-2 reps at pretty close to working weight. So someone doing the 5X5 is likely doing the same thing, therefore it wouldn't be a distinguishing factor between the 2 programs.

[RavensFan2k3]

What about my original question about using this program. I am a beginnger, but I already started with Bill Starr's 5x5(i am about 5-6 weeks already in it). I was wondering if I am missing out on making gains 2-3x a week on lifts rather than only once a week with Bill Starr's program. Is it enough to where I should start over with Rippetoe's program?

[wh0died]

In Madcow's 5X5 intermediate training template, he reccomends only counting the working sets towards tonnage since the overall effect from the warm-ups is so minimal.

That's about as far as I can answer though, as I just don't know enough about the topic to go any further!

Where are you getting this from? There is only one "work set". The rest are "warm-ups". I've listed a passage from Madcow's site.

Ramping Weights:

This is basically increasing your weight set to set like warming up. If your top set of 5 is 315, you might go 135, 185, 225, 275, and then 315 all for 5 reps. There are several reasons for this, you are warming up, getting a lot of practice and really groove the coordination of the lifts, and contributing to workload without raising it so high that fatigue overcomes you and you overtrain. If you do 315 for all 5 sets, workload is a lot higher and doing that a couple of times a week ensures that you won't last long on this program.

[GSP]

Where are you getting this from? There is only one "work set". The rest are "warm-ups". I've listed a passage from Madcow's site.

It's on his Excel download for intermediate lifters. I don't have it in front of me at the moment, but it's to the effect of 'only working sets are used in the calculation for tonnage, as the total effect from the lighter warm-up sets has a very small overall impact'. Just paraphrasing from memory there.

I took this to mean there were additional warm-up sets to be performed, though I didn't bother to look for specifics, as the fact that they weren't counted towards total workload was the piece of data I was interested in.

[Andalite]

anyone?

i might be able to shed some light on that topic...

ppl who are new to weightlifting and have not been doing the big three lifts (squat, bench, dead) for more than 2 years, have to do Mark Rippetoe's Beginner Program..

however, if u have 2+ years of regular weighttraining on the big 3 lifts, then u do Bill Starr's Single Factor 5x5..

if ur an advanced lifter and u've done 3-5 cycles of Bill Starr's 5x5, then u can graduate onto Dual Factor 5x5

i hope this helps...

[Short One]

What about my original question about using this program. I am a beginnger, but I already started with Bill Starr's 5x5(i am about 5-6 weeks already in it). I was wondering if I am missing out on making gains 2-3x a week on lifts rather than only once a week with Bill Starr's program. Is it enough to where I should start over with Rippetoe's program?

To quote Rob Schneider characters in Adam Sandler's movies:.
"You can DO it!"

[RavensFan2k3]

i might be able to shed some light on that topic...

ppl who are new to weightlifting and have not been doing the big three lifts (squat, bench, dead) for more than 2 years, have to do Mark Rippetoe's Beginner Program..

however, if u have 2+ years of regular weighttraining on the big 3 lifts, then u do Bill Starr's Single Factor 5x5..

if ur an advanced lifter and u've done 3-5 cycles of Bill Starr's 5x5, then u can graduate onto Dual Factor 5x5

i hope this helps...

You see the thing is that I had already started on Bill Starr's Single Factor(about 5-6 weeks in). But I was just concerned that I could be adding weight to the bar 2-3x a week. The thing is I dont feel like I can be adding weight every work out without failing and missing reps and having to do it again next workout...Thats how I feel, but I may be doubting myself

[Short One]

You see the thing is that I had already started on Bill Starr's Single Factor(about 5-6 weeks in). But I was just concerned that I could be adding weight to the bar 2-3x a week. The thing is I dont feel like I can be adding weight every work out without failing and missing reps and having to do it again next workout...Thats how I feel, but I may be doubting myself

You're adding weight with 5x5, just to a different rep/set formation.

I've been following a few of the guys (Journals) doing this program, and see that they don't always add every workout. You do it based on feel. If you can't add more this week, add it next week. They do keep adding weight though.

You want to do this program. I know you do. You're after size (plus some strength based on the reading I've done of your posts), so go for it.

Once you stall, go back to the Bill Starr's 5x5.

[RavensFan2k3]

You're adding weight with 5x5, just to a different rep/set formation.

I've been following a few of the guys (Journals) doing this program, and see that they don't always add every workout. You do it based on feel. If you can't add more this week, add it next week. They do keep adding weight though.

You want to do this program. I know you do. You're after size (plus some strength based on the reading I've done of your posts), so go for it.

Once you stall, go back to the Bill Starr's 5x5.

Actually I'm more after strength, I wanna be around the same size because I play WR in football.

You say I'm adding weight to a different rep/set formation. Does that make a difference though? Like someone could be adding weight to the bar using a routine that uses 3x10, but we know that thats different than 5x5. So does using 3 sets of 5 reps of the same weight rather than pyramiding the weight up to a top set of 5 make a difference?

[Short One]

Actually I'm more after strength, I wanna be around the same size because I play WR in football.

You say I'm adding weight to a different rep/set formation. Does that make a difference though? Like someone could be adding weight to the bar using a routine that uses 3x10, but we know that thats different than 5x5. So does using 3 sets of 5 reps of the same weight rather than pyramiding the weight up to a top set of 5 make a difference?

Then why do you keep going on about size gains and missing out, etc..
Happy with your size, but want more strength, then stay on the path you're on.
Simple.

Just continue with your 5x5. If strength is honestly what you're after keep ploughing on with the program you're 6 weeks through already.

[RavensFan2k3]

Then why do you keep going on about size gains and missing out, etc..
Happy with your size, but want more strength, then stay on the path you're on.
Simple.

Just continue with your 5x5. If strength is honestly what you're after keep ploughing on with the program you're 6 weeks through already.

Ok about the size thing, I wanted to be the weight I am right now except lean and cut. So since you cant really gain muscle while losing fat at the same time, I figured I would gain as much size(muscle) as possible, the go through alittle cutting session to cut down back to a weight close to my current weight or even alittle lower would be ok. So then size is what I want too, but I want to come back to the size I am now except lean and cut...you get what I'm saying? But I NEED to get my lifts up fast

[Jaybo82]

i had a knee reconstruction and iv been doing this program do you think i should continue if my actual knee is a bit sore. I like doing this program mabe i should just lift really light

[wh0died]

Tonnage is calculated based on core lifts, it is the combined sum of volume and intensity (%1RM). Basically a proxy for workload.
i.e. Weight Used X Reps = Tonnage. The cutoff is to make the calculation more relevant and not count light sets
towards the total since the impact from very light work is not going to be significant (this is common in practice)

However, if you look at the formula for the tonage calculation it calculates all five sets and the low weights. I do not see anything in his write up about warm ups and sets below 60% (the tonage cutoff) so I don't see the logic behind it. Maybe someone can contact him and get an answer.

[Chris Tempest]

i might be able to shed some light on that topic...

ppl who are new to weightlifting and have not been doing the big three lifts (squat, bench, dead) for more than 2 years, have to do Mark Rippetoe's Beginner Program..

however, if u have 2+ years of regular weighttraining on the big 3 lifts, then u do Bill Starr's Single Factor 5x5..

if ur an advanced lifter and u've done 3-5 cycles of Bill Starr's 5x5, then u can graduate onto Dual Factor 5x5

i hope this helps...

Thanks for shedding some light on this topic.

How long should Rippetoes program last. I mean what is considered 1 cycle?

Or the same with Bill Starr's Single Factor, what is considered 1 cycle?

Thanks,

[weakling88]

how would I go about this workout program when trying to LOSE weight? I want to start working out today! Anyone have suggestions for cardio + diet if I were doing the same lifts posted?

MY height + weight: 5'8, 194...18 years old

[young and strong]

Thanks for shedding some light on this topic.

How long should Rippetoes program last. I mean what is considered 1 cycle?

Or the same with Bill Starr's Single Factor, what is considered 1 cycle?

Thanks,

If your a raw beginner Starting Strength usually last 6 months and up.
If you've been training before, it lasts 3-6 months. It isn't really a cycle.
Bill Starr's 5x5 works up to your 5rm in five weeks. So it could be anywhere
from five to thirty weeks. The cycle keeps going until you can't progress anymore. Then you reset back and work up again.
Hope that helped