Layne Norton's New VLOG: IIFYM V.S Clean Eating

[nbedoya]

I came in here looking for some nutrition info and I learned a alot about lung cancer... Nice.

^^this

iifym does not equal lung cancer, two whole different subjects lol

[WonderPug]

First of all where are you getting your information from? And second even giving you that you are saying that an extra 10% of the entire population will get lung cancer as a result of smoking...do you even realize how many people that is? From my link above from the Cancer Research Center and referenced..."Experts agree that smoking is the single biggest cause of cancer in the world. (1-3) Smoking causes over a quarter of cancer deaths in developed countries and nearly one in five cancer cases. (4, 5) Around "50%" (I would consider that "likely") of current smokers will be killed by their habit if they continue to smoke. And 25-40% of smokers will die in middle age (6, 7) Smoking causes even more deaths from other respiratory diseases and heart conditions than from cancer. 2 If current trends continue, scientists estimate that tobacco will kill about "one billion" people in the twenty-first century. 2"

Start here and then read all of the relevant reference studies.

That said, I think what is confusing you is terminology. The percentage of total lung cancers that occurs in smokers is a relative statistic as it speaks the ratio of a specific class of cancer in smokers vs. non-smokers. It's not an absolute indication of the rate of cancers. In other words, 90% of a specific type of cancer can occur in smokers, but the prevalence can be 10% over a lifetime.

Now do you understand?

[mainsqueeze530]

This thread encouraged me to pick up smoking again.

Thanks WonderPug.

[wrhalljr]

You still aren't grasping what I'm saying. You are allowed to have an opinion... but you are acting like your way IS better for everyone.... you've stated that pretty clearly. I'm telling you that if someone like me were your client, I'd like to know ALL my options, not just YOURS. And from what you are saying, you wouldn't tell me other options. If I were a trainer I would tell my client the options they have and get them on a plan that works for them.. not myself.

I actually am...and I put no one on the exact same plan that I am on unless their goals are the same as mine...however I guess we will agree to disagree that there actually is a better or optimal way of doing things...as a trainer yes you clearly want to get input from your clients and their goals, but in the end they came to me to lay out a plan for them to follow, because most haven't been able to do it on their own...

[motiva8]

Cliffs:
- Both 1) "clean eating" & 2) "so long as it fits your macros then eat whatever else to fill it" are both wrong approaches
1) States why clean eating is false for the obvious reasons stated,
2) states fiber intake is very necessary for blocking GI response, slows & aids digestion, produces short chain fatty acids. 20g minimum, should be 40-60 he personally states, > 60 can cause malabsorption issues

- Discusses the idea behind Glycemic index & how it works. And how a mixed meal of foods f*cks up the GI theory

- Once you get a fair amount of fiber, anymore gives diminishing returns & can affect absorption of vitamins/minerals

- To hit macros & fiber largely requires eating "clean" foods leaving only a portion for "junk" food. Far more sustainable lifestyle & how it stops orthorexic/ED problems + stops binging on weekends/Superiority complex for eating clean.

[AlwaysTryin]

Seriously? I don't know who you consider a "reputable poster" or not but it is on almost every single post in this section and others...I know rep power and number of posts is not necessarily "reputable", however on here that is the only gauge one has most of the time, and if you go by that there are plenty that say those exact things!!

I'm curious which people you refer to and examples? Serious I can't remember any exact posts like that

**I will rep you for examples btw

[midcoastking33]

This thread encouraged me to pick up smoking again.

Thanks WonderPug.

nicotine improves metabolism and is anti-estrogenic, not a bad choice

[WonderPug]

The utter irony of it all is that supplements are the ultimate DCA/IIFYM thing. Eat clean and avoid evil things like ice cream or pop tarts, but gulp down your highly processed whey or nutritionally void chemical concoction...

It is funny, isn't it.

[ApolloD]

Wow, nice of username: womanoid to neg me for starting a constructive thread.

[AlwaysTryin]

I'm curious which people you refer to and examples? Serious I can't remember any exact posts like that

**I will rep you for examples btw

Just for the interest of others, examples were given via PM but all were threads in the MISC, so therefore high rep MISC posters

Will still rep you but for at least showing some examples

[vitornoob]

^^^This x2....it is so frustrating to sit back and watch people on here talk about "just hit your macro's" and "a calorie is a calorie" when it is just not true!! Throw up all the "ice cream" videos you want, but if you would rather sit and eat a gallon of ice cream a day when your 22 and already fit to prove a point then more power to you, but long term that is disaster for anyone and especially to the person that struggles with weight gain and is not already fit...in the end it is just flat out WRONG!!

Seriously? I don't know who you consider a "reputable poster" or not but it is on almost every single post in this section and others...I know rep power and number of posts is not necessarily "reputable", however on here that is the only gauge one has most of the time, and if you go by that there are plenty that say those exact things!!

[QUOTE=wrhalljr;1018210033]

Can you explain how "a calorie is a calorie" is incorrect?[/QUOTE

I already did in that it may be a good short term skit to post a video on here about how all you ate ice cream or cake every day and you lost weight but long term that is a disaster...so again if you are at 2400 calories per day and a half-gallon of ice cream is 2400 calories (576g carbs, 256g fats, 64g protein) and you eat that daily that is a utter train wreck long term for anyone's body...period!! And then people will say that is extreme or not common sense and I would argue that simply stating as fact "a calorie is a calorie" is extreme and dangerous to someone who is overweight and/or un-fit and grew up eating that kind of junk food diet all their life...

[necon76]

Just for the interest of others, examples were given via PM but all were threads in the MISC, so therefore high rep MISC posters

Will still rep you but for at least showing some examples

Anyone stupid enough to go there for nutritional advice deserves what they get.

[PhiSig2298]

ITT: Everyone follows IIFYM... Some are just too stupid to realize it.



If you track calories/macros then you follow IIFYM... Lots of IIFYM'ers eat Bro foods.

[ApolloD]

ITT: Everyone follows IIFYM... Some are just too stupid to realize it.



If you track calories/macros then you follow IIFYM... Lots of IIFYM'ers eat Bro foods.

By Bro Foods, i'm assuming you mean the typical brown rice+ chicken, sweetpotato combinations etc ??

I'm pretty keen to hear some more varieties of flexible foods which are outside of this 'bro food' category which the core IIFYM's preachers incorporate into their diet that makes their diet so much different to someone that stays within suitable caloric intake.

[illiniStrive]

By Bro Foods, i'm assuming you mean the typical brown rice+ chicken, sweetpotato combinations etc ??

I'm pretty keen to hear some more varieties of flexible foods which are outside of this 'bro food' category which the core IIFYM's preachers incorporate into their diet that makes their diet so much different to someone that stays within suitable caloric intake.

That's the point though... incorporating non-traditional "diet foods" DOESN'T make their diet drastically different... meaning someone can fit a scoop of ice cream into their diet everyday and not progress slower than they would otherwise.

[jimsmith9999]

By Bro Foods, i'm assuming you mean the typical brown rice+ chicken, sweetpotato combinations etc ??

I'm pretty keen to hear some more varieties of flexible foods which are outside of this 'bro food' category which the core IIFYM's preachers incorporate into their diet that makes their diet so much different to someone that stays within suitable caloric intake.

I ate 2700 cals today. 2570 of those would be totally bro approved. Some tilapia, oats, eggs, some fruit, lots of veggies, some sweet pototao, Greek yogurt, evoo, that sort of stuff. The other 130 cals was 30g of Cinnamon Toast Crunch I put on my Greek Yogurt.

Yesterday was more or less the same, but I had 2300 calories of bro approved food and a couple of pop tarts. That's the real intention of IIFYM. A few years ago I would have been told that that 30g of cinnamon toast crunch would wreck my results - regardless of any other factor.

[PhiSig2298]

By Bro Foods, i'm assuming you mean the typical brown rice+ chicken, sweetpotato combinations etc ??

I'm pretty keen to hear some more varieties of flexible foods which are outside of this 'bro food' category which the core IIFYM's preachers incorporate into their diet that makes their diet so much different to someone that stays within suitable caloric intake.

Yes. The ones who fully understand IIFYM eat the Bro type foods but also realize that the human body doesn't see food. It sees nutrients.


I rarely eat Bro but I get more than enough micronutrients.. It's been proven that the GI index is largely irrelevant once mixed with other macros. It's also been proven that for the most part, calories are calories (TEF comes into play but it's not going to make you or break you assuming you're meeting nutrient needs) so I don't know why bros freak out over flexible dieting... If a person practices common sense, they can enjoy the foods that they enjoy.

[jonstosik]

they can enjoy the foods that they enjoy.

Who would've thought? That's crazy man.

[PR1MO]

I put sugar on my pizza

[naturalguy]

So there is no such thing as "clean" or "dirty" foods but there are "bro" foods?

[PR1MO]

So there is no such thing as "clean" or "dirty" foods but there are "bro" foods?

Yep. "Bro" foods are foods that believe there is such a thing as "clean" and "dirty" foods.

[PhiSig2298]

So there is no such thing as "clean" or "dirty" foods but there are "bro" foods?

"don't stick your tongue out at me kid" - Little John (to sir hiss)

[sawoobley]

I've read plenty of "quality" poster continually spout bs like this. The other issue is the rudeness and entitlement all the avid IIFYM followers have. Heaven forbid you say the word clean. Your post will then be littered with pictures of soap and windex. I follow IIFYM, but will never attack anyone for eating "clean.'

/rant

Yes. We don't like it when people refer to their food as clean. It sends the wrong message. Why can't people just talk like normal educated people and stop calling food "clean"?

Seriously? I don't know who you consider a "reputable poster" or not but it is on almost every single post in this section and others...I know rep power and number of posts is not necessarily "reputable", however on here that is the only gauge one has most of the time, and if you go by that there are plenty that say those exact things!!

A lot of the reputable posters now reside in the nutmisc.

[ApolloD]

Thanks for those who started repping me, have no idea why "womanoid" decided to neg me.

So would there be any micro-nutrient changes for people targeting certain goals/ different body types? I don't mean to ask such a broad question, let me give you an example:

I myself notice that I tend to retain/put on visceral fat if I over-consume fruit - e.g. 3-5 apples in a day? When I consumed this amount of fructose(the sugar in question) I didn't consume other starchy carbs such as rice/oats etc yet I had a weird abdominal thing in which my abs would protrude.
Oddly enough, I changed my diet (whilst recording everything in myfitnesspal(weighed to the T)) such that I would consume starchy carbs in place of fruit (namely sweet potato and brown rice). Continuing the same training regime, I noticed drastic physiological changes - I didn't feel soft, my abs weren't protruding and the slight bit of pubescent-gyno I have improved dramatically; oddly enough I was consuming a larger amount of carbs - almost double.

To my point: Isn't it important to account for these types of macro-nutrients for each person such that the IIFYM approach needs to retain more specificity with regards to micro-nutrients/types of macros(in my case, types of carb sources).

[AlwaysTryin]

A lot of the reputable posters now reside in the nutmisc.

Read my post #70

[alan aragon]

Most people do not have the faintest fucking clue how the whole IIFYM thing came about. It was never intended to be viewed as a particular diet. It was never intended to have a bunch of rules ascribed to it that would define it as a specific protocol or way of eating. It was simply an acronym born out of the frustration towards endless noob threads in this forum asking if it's okay to have certain foods (i.e., fruit, dairy, nuts, etc) while dieting. The acronym became a meme, and then people started making a diet out of it. The best solution is to STFU & not use IIFYM as a label at all, since most people in fitness & BBing circles have obsessive tendencies & cannot think in terms of anything but extremes.

[necon76]

^Big Daddy has spoken.

[PR1MO]

Most people do not have the faintest fucking clue how the whole IIFYM thing came about. It was never intended to be viewed as a particular diet. It was never intended to have a bunch of rules ascribed to it that would define it as a specific protocol or way of eating. It was simply an acronym born out of the frustration towards endless noob threads in this forum asking if it's okay to have certain foods (i.e., fruit, dairy, nuts, etc) while dieting. The acronym became a meme, and then people started making a diet out of it. The best solution is to STFU & not use IIFYM as a label at all, since most people in fitness & BBing circles have obsessive tendencies & cannot think in terms of anything but extremes.

Alan, workin' that pimp hand.

[AlwaysTryin]

Most people do not have the faintest fucking clue how the whole IIFYM thing came about. It was never intended to be viewed as a particular diet. It was never intended to have a bunch of rules ascribed to it that would define it as a specific protocol or way of eating. It was simply an acronym born out of the frustration towards endless noob threads in this forum asking if it's okay to have certain foods (i.e., fruit, dairy, nuts, etc) while dieting. The acronym became a meme, and then people started making a diet out of it. The best solution is to STFU & not use IIFYM as a label at all, since most people in fitness & BBing circles have obsessive tendencies & cannot think in terms of anything but extremes.

I've preached this for over a year almost, I've negged people, I've begged people even not to use it

[Makween]

By Bro Foods, i'm assuming you mean the typical brown rice+ chicken, sweetpotato combinations etc ??

I'm pretty keen to hear some more varieties of flexible foods which are outside of this 'bro food' category which the core IIFYM's preachers incorporate into their diet that makes their diet so much different to someone that stays within suitable caloric intake.

I'd say that the main time that it really comes into play is when you're on the move/eating out a lot. As a weight class athlete, I used to be totally obsessive about carrying all my food around with me in tupperwares...I'm talking working a full day, doing a 2 hour Muay Thai session in the evening, getting home at 10PM and then spending another hour prepping all my meals for the next day when I'd do the same thing. As it is now I still try to prepare as much of my food at home as I can because it's a lot cheaper and I actually like the stuff I make, but don't stress to the point where my quality of life's reduced. Similarly, the first time I moved from Scotland to France I literally planned my meals for travelling a week in advance to the point where I was eating jerky, protein bars and baby food (yes, ****ing baby food) for micros. When I moved back out here last week I just bought my meals on the go, buying salads etc where possible to try to keep up micros and fibre, before getting a pizza when I arrived.

It's also helpful with 'borderline' foods; although it's great to know you can fit in a couple of servings of ice cream or a slice of cheesecake or whatever, you are doing so on the understanding that common sense has to prevail and you shouldn't be making up your whole diet from eating them. There are other things which sort of fit in between 'bro' and 'non-bro' foods, though, and it's good to know that if you're watching your calories it's quite okay to eat those. In fact, if you take something like pizza as an example (it's the normal example used on here), a good quality pizza really shouldn't be seen as junk food at all and is actually more nutrient dense than a lot of bro meals. What it is is calorie dense, so control portion size and maybe eat it with a salad and an active person could literally eat it every day without health concerns.

I do think that DCA, a concept which has been around for decades, is a much less misleading acronym than IIFYM.