Some people say, don't drink milk for cutting? Why not?

[Odin]

1/2 gallon of skim a day here at least, helps me get my 300 g protein for the day. Lost 80 lbs doing this and maintained around 10% no prob. Coming off a bulk now, fat is shedding fast. Does a body good IMHO. I deify Berardi, he frowns on it but I still drink it anyway. Moooo. I heard about water retention from it, etc., but I went off it for two weeks when I was at my leanest to see for myself and saw no change. I will cut back a little as I get deeper into the cut just as I will with everything else.

Calling out dvv for BF pics, that is a riot. Later, Odin

[bakers11]

Just to follow up on my earlier post, I too feel like dvv, skim milk gets a bad rap. It is just not that bad, its quite good for you. Milk is just another victim of the sugar patrol in my book, same folks that always put down fruit.

BTW, I did get my body fat measured in a displacement chamber at 22% at the end of March, I have lost another 5 pounds since then, so I should be a little below 20% at this point. I still use the skim milk and I am purposefully losing a pound a week right on schedule. I try to follow as close to a 40/40/20 while in a caloric deficit. For me the calories in vs. calories out works exactly as it did from day one. Its the law of thermo-dynamics, it will always work. When it appears to not be working, its usually due to calculation problems on those tracking their progress and/or a slowing of the metabolism.

Again these are just my opinions. I will post more on this as I cut down to around 15% or so. From there I will decide if I want to cut more. Skim milk will remain in my diet the entire time, so we shall see what occurs.

[TeamRamrod]

Originally posted by bakers11
Just to follow up on my earlier post, I too feel like dvv, skim milk gets a bad rap. It is just not that bad, its quite good for you. Milk is just another victim of the sugar patrol in my book, same folks that always put down fruit.

BTW, I did get my body fat measured in a displacement chamber at 22% at the end of March, I have lost another 5 pounds since then, so I should be a little below 20% at this point. I still use the skim milk and I am purposefully losing a pound a week right on schedule. I try to follow as close to a 40/40/20 while in a caloric deficit. For me the calories in vs. calories out works exactly as it did from day one. Its the law of thermo-dynamics, it will always work. When it appears to not be working, its usually due to calculation problems on those tracking their progress and/or a slowing of the metabolism.

Again these are just my opinions. I will post more on this as I cut down to around 15% or so. From there I will decide if I want to cut more. Skim milk will remain in my diet the entire time, so we shall see what occurs.

Thats sweet you got that displacement chamber test down. How much did that cost you and where did you get it done?

Also, not to beat a dead horse. I def. see where u guys are comin from, especially while bulking to add milk. One of my best friends, also a member on here, consumed milk like no other with bulking, and he is one of the biggest, leanest, and proportiate person ive seen in real life. It does help fill bulkin calories. He did, as a side note, cut out just about all milk for his cutting cycle, but once again, at the end of the day its all what works for the person. As for me, i rant about it so much, because it has been a B*TCH like no other to lose my body fat once i got under 16% and lately, ive been taking the smallest things into consideration.

~TR

[bakers11]

I got it done at a place here in columbus ohio called Baseline fitness. It was only $25 for the BF% test. I got a package deal of the displacement chamber, VO2 Max test, and resting metabolism test. You can check out their internet site here:

www.baselinefitness.com

[ko_kidd]

Wow, great info.

I feel that I should at least take two glasses of milk though: one right after workout and perhaps one before bed (or close to that time). I'd probably only drink it with protein powder or with something like a peanut butter sandwich.

[user34566548717114]

Originally posted by TeamRamrod
Agreed.

The reason I asked for a timestamp, lol, is because ive seen people busted out on just jumpin to other bodybuilding forums and snatchin some pics sayin its them. You, obviously arent one of these people and you showed ur proof. Thats all I ask is for people to back their stuff up, which u did.

~TR

its all gravy we got off to a rocky start

[Aticc674]

Originally posted by ko_kidd
Title says it all.

They are wrong and ignorant...ignore em. Enough said.

[DeezGst]

The 96lbs of fat I lost say..." Milk does a body good." :-)

[user34566548717114]

i think the best weight loss is just being active as possible, walk whereever you can, lots of cardio, and regular HARD weight training should keep you in shape

the more active you are the faster your metabolism is gonna be, so when mcfatties temps you it minimizes the damage....of course being active sometimes is a luxury but there are ways you can work it in........park futher away for work, take the stairs instead of the elevator, just spend more time on your feet, little things add up in a hurry

[lemmy]

Christ, High Gi / Low GI, IT DOESN'T MEAN **** when cutting, it's all about calories in, calories out.

[user34566548717114]

Originally posted by lemmy
Christ, High Gi / Low GI, IT DOESN'T MEAN **** when cutting, it's all about calories in, calories out.

ehh its not quite THAT simple

someone said it best

how many calories you eat determines if you gain or lose weight, what you eat determines what you gain or lose


generally speaking i do agree with you though

[TeamRamrod]

Originally posted by dvv
ehh its not quite THAT simple

someone said it best

how many calories you eat determines if you gain or lose weight, what you eat determines what you gain or lose


generally speaking i do agree with you though

Damn, I do like that myself, nicely put. Cals in vs. cals out does matter, but to me it seems like there are three parts:
1)cals in vs. cals out
2)what kind of cals u are consuming
3)when are u consuming these cals throughout the day

~TR

[bakers11]

Abosolutely agree with the "smarter" cal in vs cal out philosophy. I do not believe you can eat 6 300 calorie candy bars a day and expect to lose weight and maintain muscle. What and when you eat will have an impact on sculpting your body. As I have cut down I have tightened my diet up significantly and have seen tremendous results, even while cutting. What those calories are does truely make a difference.

[ironlung]

Originally posted by dvv
how many calories you eat determines if you gain or lose weight, what you eat determines what you gain or lose

That's a good way to put it

[user34566548717114]

Originally posted by ironlung
That's a good way to put it

yeah i'd like to give credit to whoever said it cuz i thought it was good too, its in someones like signature

[DeezGst]

That's they way I've always looked at it also, however I don't think a glass of milk a day will make someone gain weight. Moderation is the key to anything that isn't the "best" for you.

DVV you are rip as hell man. I always find your pic threads inspiring. You and Skip are gonna have to brawl for best abs.

Derek

[alan aragon]

competitive bodybuilders have an unfounded fear of milk. it's an absolute myth that you can get more cut with milk than without it given a comparison of equal calories. there is no experimental or empirical data to support the milk phobia. in fact, milk can be a potent weapon in the precontest mode when used properly. i would love to go on and on about this to anyone who challenges me.

the antimilk myth has been perpetuated by people who are afraid to go against conventional wisdom. that's funny how smart guys like john berardi have succumbed to it as well.. oh the way misconceptions & folklore persist.

conventional wisdom is correct half of the time. the other half of the time, its hears & eyes & mind is shut tight.

[TeamRamrod]

Originally posted by alan aragon
competitive bodybuilders have an unfounded fear of milk. it's an absolute myth that you can get more cut with milk than without it given a comparison of equal calories. there is no experimental or empirical data to support the milk phobia. in fact, milk can be a potent weapon in the precontest mode when used properly. i would love to go on and on about this to anyone who challenges me.

the antimilk myth has been perpetuated by people who are afraid to go against conventional wisdom. that's funny how smart guys like john berardi have succumbed to it as well.. oh the way misconceptions & folklore persist.

conventional wisdom is correct half of the time. the other half of the time, its hears & eyes & mind is shut tight.

I see ur stance from other other thread, lol, but what is your opinion on drinking milk BESIDES pwo. If you do promote it, why?

Thanks,

~TR

[alan aragon]

good question, TR.

benefits of milk before bed: to counteract the onset of cortisol at the endstage of the sleep cycle, and to keep nitrogen balance from dipping below equilib as well. also, night time GH release in combination with heightened insulin concentrations can in fact bias your phyz towards a net positive protein balance despite the cat/mouse relationship between GH & insulin (look up studies on GH by wolf).

benefits of milk otherwise in the day are less controversial. the bottom line is that there is no known objectively identifiable factor or agent within milk that causes "thicker skin". that's usually a case of the precontest BB'r having trace subcutaneous fat &/or water that needed 2-3 more weeks of proper prep to dry out of. i'll admit right away that it's possible to overdo your calories if you drink those claories down haphazardly. milk in & of itself has nothing to do with it an under-cut subcutaneous layer. everyone has a genetically set limit to the degree of skin thinness/dryness that they can achieve. i'd bet $$$$ that dexter jackson can switch out 300 calories of carb (pick one, any one) for 300 calories of milk & achieve the same conditioning. heck, he may even have better nitrogen balance during contest prep ..he'll certainly have more powerful farts.

[user34566548717114]

Originally posted by DeezGst
That's they way I've always looked at it also, however I don't think a glass of milk a day will make someone gain weight. Moderation is the key to anything that isn't the "best" for you.

DVV you are rip as hell man. I always find your pic threads inspiring. You and Skip are gonna have to brawl for best abs.

Derek

hahaha thanx bro, yeah skip has outstanding abs and he is rare lower obliques when he is near contest shape, so i just hope to give him a run for his money

[TeamRamrod]

Originally posted by alan aragon
good question, TR.

benefits of milk before bed: to counteract the onset of cortisol at the endstage of the sleep cycle, and to keep nitrogen balance from dipping below equilib as well. also, night time GH release in combination with heightened insulin concentrations can in fact bias your phyz towards a net positive protein balance despite the cat/mouse relationship between GH & insulin (look up studies on GH by wolf).

benefits of milk otherwise in the day are less controversial. the bottom line is that there is no known objectively identifiable factor or agent within milk that causes "thicker skin". that's usually a case of the precontest BB'r having trace subcutaneous fat &/or water that needed 2-3 more weeks of proper prep to dry out of. i'll admit right away that it's possible to overdo your calories if you drink those claories down haphazardly. milk in & of itself has nothing to do with it an under-cut subcutaneous layer. everyone has a genetically set limit to the degree of skin thinness/dryness that they can achieve. i'd bet $$$$ that dexter jackson can switch out 300 calories of carb (pick one, any one) for 300 calories of milk & achieve the same conditioning. heck, he may even have better nitrogen balance during contest prep ..he'll certainly have more powerful farts.

Personally, I never had a bad objection to milk because of this "thick skin" theory, whether true or not, it just never concerned me I guess.

I see what ur saying with the insulin and GH, its just so hard for me to take down somethin with 12gr. of sugars. I usually opt for the fat free cottage cheese before bed because it has approx. 5gr of sugar per serving. How does this compare to the milk with ur theory about the combinations of the insulin secretion and GH release?

Also, what are ur thoughts in comparison of the milk or ff cottage cheese before bed as opposed to something like a protein shake with flax to slow its digestion??

Thanks,

~TR

[alan aragon]

TR - those questions are provocative & **** i'm really interested in, & bound to give a long drawn-out answer to, lol.

i'm off work now, & i'll be lecturing dietitians' asses off tomorrow @ the FDA, so i probably won't return till monday. i'll give you an earful about sugarphobia though, guaranteed. fat to slow digestion @ night has pros, cons, & conditions as well. perhaps someone will step in & take the words right out of my mouth.

gone 4 a bit.

1

[TeamRamrod]

Alright, well first off, good luck with ur lectures. Until then I will try to devolge more on to my opinion so you have somethin to read when u get back, lol

It is my viewpoint on that a pro/fat meal slows gastric emptying because the fat slows down the digestion of protein and provides a sort of time release of the protein.

From my understanding, a pro/efa meal provides a decently high thermo effect with its digestion.

Also, doesnt sleeping put ur body at lower insulin levels which increase fat oxidation, meaning I would not want an insulin spike before bed?

I also thought that pro/fat provided more of an anabolic effect on the body, so consuming this at night, while insulin levels are low is what results in higher GH levels?

Anticipating your response,

~TR

[zackmurphy]

I'm waiting patiently here, Alan. Hurry the hell up.

[JTrain306]

i'm off work now, & i'll be lecturing dietitians' asses off tomorrow @ the FDA, so i probably won't return till monday. i'll give you an earful about sugarphobia though, guaranteed.

Are you back from your lecture yet?

[buttaflap]

when drinking a glass of milk, how do you get rid of milk aftertaste in mouth?
haha if i drink milk (other than a teaspoon in coffee or oats) my stomach turns into a hot air ballon

[ko_kidd]

Lol, that doesn't sound too great if it messes with your stomach all the time.

[BigChiefRocka]

Milk won't kill you, if you think having milk in your cereal everyday is what caused you to gain 300lbs your an idiot. Stop worrying about stupid little things. Yes insulin turns on the fat process, but if you move while your not eating then that fat is burned. Its a fu**ing balance man.

You do realise that those muscle men on those mags only look like that for 3 months then they get fat for 9 while being monitored by scientists, nutritionist, personal trainers, and doctors and their bodies are pumped with potent chemical cocktails to make their muscles grow and thier jaws and foreheads get big.

You a guy trying to lose a few pounds, there was a time before this sugar BS when guys ate acutal food like eggs, cheese, milk, and beef and still got big and ripped. Don't get caught up in the bs, it will just complicate things and make you unfocused.

1 Cup of milk with Cheerios in the morning is fine.

[Whingman]

Here is my post, and it is all that matters...

Do you normally drink milk? Do you like milk? Would you feel deprived if someone told you no more milk? Is that to you like telling a crack addict no more drugs, a porn addict, no more porn, Ronnie Coleman no working out. The key point is, if milk is somethign you love, if no meal is complete with out milk, then you shoudl drink it. If Infact milk is liek nude girls to a gay man...then stop drinking it, it is a reduction in calories. But if you like milk, and you feel liek you woudl miss it, then drik three 8 once glasses a day. I don't think you shoudl sit back and say I like milk, and the pro milk side has made a good arguemnt, but maybe I should be safe. If you want to be safe, don't set yourself up for failure, 24 onces of milk a day will not kill you, it will not destroy your diet, It most likely won't even hurt you...unless your lactose intolerant. So just follow your heart, your nose, your stomach, or my advice, and just ask yourself if you like milk, that is the only thing you or anyone else really needs to consider when determining wether or not they should include milk in their diet.

[Kiwi_Fella]

Here is my post, and it is all that matters...

Do you normally drink milk? Do you like milk? Would you feel deprived if someone told you no more milk? Is that to you like telling a crack addict no more drugs, a porn addict, no more porn, Ronnie Coleman no working out. The key point is, if milk is somethign you love, if no meal is complete with out milk, then you shoudl drink it. If Infact milk is liek nude girls to a gay man...then stop drinking it, it is a reduction in calories. But if you like milk, and you feel liek you woudl miss it, then drik three 8 once glasses a day. I don't think you shoudl sit back and say I like milk, and the pro milk side has made a good arguemnt, but maybe I should be safe. If you want to be safe, don't set yourself up for failure, 24 onces of milk a day will not kill you, it will not destroy your diet, It most likely won't even hurt you...unless your lactose intolerant. So just follow your heart, your nose, your stomach, or my advice, and just ask yourself if you like milk, that is the only thing you or anyone else really needs to consider when determining wether or not they should include milk in their diet.

umm.. Thanks