Call Out to Companies Using Tyrosine+Yohimbine

[Palo Alto Labs]

Companies using the two together will simply let the argument disappear, as they tried to with glycocyamine.

Sorry for the delay response coming in a few minutes.

[Sldgehmr]

fantastic write up thank u

No problem.

i guess im pretty luucky ive taken hyperdrive, and I know ive tried yohimbe products before and never had any issues thank goodness

This seems to happen with a lot of users. My thought is the poor condition of Yohimbine bark. When using Y in a tea there seems to be a better response then when taking capsules. There may be other constituents needed in the bark for the full effect that is lost when using supp caps.

I've wondered this myself after it was pointed out to me by some of the CL reps. I've stayed away from potential stacks because of it. I was going to do Epic's stack, but 5-Tetra has yohimbine and 4-Nitrotropic has tyrosine. I do currently have PAL Leviathan which contains both and I asked Dave about it in one of his threads. His response was that it has low conc. of one or the other, pointing to the dose dependent effects. Does anyone have any studies on the benefits of low conc. of the two together?

As Uhockey and I said we both feel there are better choices for fatloss/stim without needing to stack Tyrosine and Yohimbine. As far as benefits, most studies will give you the reason not to stack. The main benfit would be that tyrosine causes more tyramine to be made. This will increase th erelease of NE which wont be broken down as easily because of the Y. This is what will cause the adverse side effects I talked about above.

[uknowmeman]

Excellent point

[Palo Alto Labs]

First off I'll start out by saying yohimbine is a mild MAO inhibitor. but MAO inhibitors are a broad category, they certainly do not all work in the same way or have the same effects.

I disagree that yohimbine is not selective at all. There is a study from 1988 that disagrees with this. This study also goes on to state that when rats are given 200mg/kg of tyrosine in addition to 10mg/kg of Yohimbine that and I quote "Moreoever, the administration of 200 mg/kg of tyrosine failed to augment the increases in brain MHPG and DGPH produced by PB. Tyrosine did slightly enhance the increase in DHPG due to YOH treatment. This effect is presumable a result of YOH activating these neurones by blocking presynaptic autoreceptors and thus making the rate of NE turnover dependent on tyrosine availability(wurtman et al., 1981). How ever no such effect was observed for th YOH-induced increase in MHPG. The reason for this is unknown, but may relate to NE being preferentially converted to DHPG when metabolized intraneuronally and to mHPG when metabolized extraneuronally. Finally, the large elevation in MHPG due to YOH may be due only partly a2-adrenoceptor blockade. YOH is structurally similiar to reserpine and has been postulated to cause a reserpine-like release of stored NE. The acute biochemical effects of a single injection of reserpine caused both increases in braing MHPG and decreases in NE similar to those caused by YOH(Bareggi et al., 1979). Thus, 2 hr after a dose of 1.25 mg/kg of resperine, MHPG was increased 72% and NE was reduced 43%(bareggi et al., 1979). On the other hand since YOH did not deplete brain DA, if YOH has a reserpine like action, it must be selective for NE neurons."

here is another quote from this study's abstract "Tyrosine failed to enhance the effect of either YOH or PB except for somewhat augmenting the increase in DHPG induced by YOH"


Essentially what I am saying here is that all MAOi's dont act the same... In this study tyrosine has basically an insignificant effect on the brain when combined with yohimbine. Now if some one wants to argue the effectiveness of yohimbine that is a different argument that I think has been disputed here a thousand times. I personally like the results I have gotten from yohimbine but it is always up to the consumer to read up on a substance and gauge their bodies tolerence to it. Also i think it is important to understand that we have dosed leviathan very modertly with tyrosine. When this product was formulated we researched tyrosine and yohimbine extensively. We absolutely were interested making leviathan a safe but effective product. Here is the link to the abstract from pub med:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

Please pm me with any questions. I will be logged on on and off. Oh I also agree completely with Sldgehmr on his assessment off yohimbe bark.. Never use a product that uses yohimbe bark.. it is a dirty herb(yohimbine is only 1 of the 32 active alkoloid present in yohimbe) If you use a product make sure it is a straight yohimbine HCl product.. not an yohimbe bark standerized to a % yohimbine.

[Palo Alto Labs]

P.S. I dont want to e-fight!! I just wanted to reference a study that we looked at when formulating Leviathan.. now I would assume most companies who are putting these products out are just copy cating forumulas and not doing any due diligence, but I cant be sure of that.

[Lonny]

P.S. I dont want to e-fight!! I just wanted to reference a study that we looked at when formulating Leviathan.. now I would assume most companies who are putting these products out are just copy cating forumulas and not doing any due diligence, but I cant be sure of that.

Thanks, it good to know that your company did the research before just throwing stuff together because it seemed like a good idea. Glad you chymed in.

[G.W. Hayduke]

Never use a product that uses yohimbe bark.. it is a dirty herb(yohimbine is only 1 of the 32 active alkoloid present in yohimbe) If you use a product make sure it is a straight yohimbine HCl product.. not an yohimbe bark standerized to a % yohimbine.

That's just plain mean! Yohimbe bark has its place... it's just not in sports performance.

[Outside backer]

As Uhockey and I said we both feel there are better choices for fatloss/stim without needing to stack Tyrosine and Yohimbine. As far as benefits, most studies will give you the reason not to stack. The main benfit would be that tyrosine causes more tyramine to be made. This will increase th erelease of NE which wont be broken down as easily because of the Y. This is what will cause the adverse side effects I talked about above.

i agree as well. Im a big chocamine fan. id like to see this used more

[BuckeyeMuscle]

Thanks, it good to know that your company did the research before just throwing stuff together because it seemed like a good idea. Glad you chymed in.

[magicmatt]

bump, just sent an email to controlled labs. ive been taking green mag and lipo 6 together for a week, not knowing. am i going to die, lose a leg, lung, etc, etc? i feel fine.

[BuckeyeMuscle]

bump, just sent an email to controlled labs. ive been taking green mag and lipo 6 together for a week, not knowing. am i going to die, lose a leg, lung, etc, etc? i feel fine.

Please see below:
I don't think CL's response will differ much from ours.

First off I'll start out by saying yohimbine is a mild MAO inhibitor. but MAO inhibitors are a broad category, they certainly do not all work in the same way or have the same effects.

I disagree that yohimbine is not selective at all. There is a study from 1988 that disagrees with this. This study also goes on to state that when rats are given 200mg/kg of tyrosine in addition to 10mg/kg of Yohimbine that and I quote "Moreoever, the administration of 200 mg/kg of tyrosine failed to augment the increases in brain MHPG and DGPH produced by PB. Tyrosine did slightly enhance the increase in DHPG due to YOH treatment. This effect is presumable a result of YOH activating these neurones by blocking presynaptic autoreceptors and thus making the rate of NE turnover dependent on tyrosine availability(wurtman et al., 1981). How ever no such effect was observed for th YOH-induced increase in MHPG. The reason for this is unknown, but may relate to NE being preferentially converted to DHPG when metabolized intraneuronally and to mHPG when metabolized extraneuronally. Finally, the large elevation in MHPG due to YOH may be due only partly a2-adrenoceptor blockade. YOH is structurally similiar to reserpine and has been postulated to cause a reserpine-like release of stored NE. The acute biochemical effects of a single injection of reserpine caused both increases in braing MHPG and decreases in NE similar to those caused by YOH(Bareggi et al., 1979). Thus, 2 hr after a dose of 1.25 mg/kg of resperine, MHPG was increased 72% and NE was reduced 43%(bareggi et al., 1979). On the other hand since YOH did not deplete brain DA, if YOH has a reserpine like action, it must be selective for NE neurons."

here is another quote from this study's abstract "Tyrosine failed to enhance the effect of either YOH or PB except for somewhat augmenting the increase in DHPG induced by YOH"


Essentially what I am saying here is that all MAOi's dont act the same... In this study tyrosine has basically an insignificant effect on the brain when combined with yohimbine. Now if some one wants to argue the effectiveness of yohimbine that is a different argument that I think has been disputed here a thousand times. I personally like the results I have gotten from yohimbine but it is always up to the consumer to read up on a substance and gauge their bodies tolerence to it. Also i think it is important to understand that we have dosed leviathan very modertly with tyrosine. When this product was formulated we researched tyrosine and yohimbine extensively. We absolutely were interested making leviathan a safe but effective product. Here is the link to the abstract from pub med:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

Please pm me with any questions. I will be logged on on and off. Oh I also agree completely with Sldgehmr on his assessment off yohimbe bark.. Never use a product that uses yohimbe bark.. it is a dirty herb(yohimbine is only 1 of the 32 active alkoloid present in yohimbe) If you use a product make sure it is a straight yohimbine HCl product.. not an yohimbe bark standerized to a % yohimbine.

[Segansational]

bump, just sent an email to controlled labs. ive been taking green mag and lipo 6 together for a week, not knowing. am i going to die, lose a leg, lung, etc, etc? i feel fine.

They tell you in their Green Mag FAQ not to use it with products containing yohimbine.

[magicmatt]

Please see below:
I don't think CL's response will differ much from ours.

im not a moron by any means, but could you dumb that down to 2 or 3 sentances?

[magicmatt]

They tell you in their Green Mag FAQ not to use it with products containing yohimbine.

i saw that, but i want to know why. and if i really cant take them together.

[BuckeyeMuscle]

im not a moron by any means, but could you dumb that down to 2 or 3 sentances?

In this study tyrosine has basically an insignificant effect on the brain when combined with yohimbine. Thats basically the conclusion.

[magicmatt]

In this study tyrosine has basically an insignificant effect on the brain when combined with yohimbine. Thats basically the conclusion.

thank you sir, appreciate it.

[CONTROLLED LABS]

bump, just sent an email to controlled labs. ive been taking green mag and lipo 6 together for a week, not knowing. am i going to die, lose a leg, lung, etc, etc? i feel fine.

email replied to. it could have an exaggerated yohimbe response which could lead to issues with blood pressure, its best to separate them by a few hours.

[magicmatt]

email replied to. it could have an exaggerated yohimbe response which could lead to issues with blood pressure, its best to separate them by a few hours.

appreciate it, thanks. just sent a reply before i read this asking if 2 hours apart is ok.

[NOSUPERMODEL]

I am taking Purple Wraath, Dark Rage and Stim X together. Is this why I am not feeling so hot in the gym, and why I feel like I could rip somebody's head off all the time?

[BringnIt]

You are taking the Stim X and the Dark Rage concurrently?

[Skigazzi]

I am taking Purple Wraath, Dark Rage and Stim X together. Is this why I am not feeling so hot in the gym, and why I feel like I could rip somebody's head off all the time?

Stacking Stim X with any other stims is probably overkill...maybe dangerous. I'd remove one of the two.

[NOSUPERMODEL]

You are taking the Stim X and the Dark Rage concurrently?

Yes I am. I usually take Stim X at 6:30 AM and 2:00 PM and then usually Dark Rage around 5:30 PM and then workout at 6:00 PM and drink Purple Wraath

[DH5]

Yes I am. I usually take Stim X at 6:30 AM and 2:00 PM and then usually Dark Rage around 5:30 PM and then workout at 6:00 PM and drink Purple Wraath

i would take a stim-free pre like bodyforge

[dtrain13]

You are taking the Stim X and the Dark Rage concurrently?

Stacking Stim X with any other stims is probably overkill...maybe dangerous. I'd remove one of the two.

First off strong bump. Secondly I think I've seen two ghosts. LOL

[Skigazzi]

First off strong bump. Secondly I think I've seen two ghosts. LOL

Holy SHAAAAT...I didn't even notice BringinIt posted...

Im no ghost...more like a ghoul.

[BringnIt]

First off strong bump. Secondly I think I've seen two ghosts. LOL

Ha... Surprised I am remembered...

I would probably suggest either removing the second serving of Stim X or using a different non-stimulant pre-workout as suggested.

[jkeithc82]

You are taking the Stim X and the Dark Rage concurrently?

Where the hell have you been?

[BringnIt]

Where the hell have you been?

I got tired of this place for awhile... I am researching USP Labs products currently, and I figured it is time to un-retire here.

[Vince Goodrum]

I've noticed recently that numerous companies have taken to combining these 2 ingredients in their Fat Burners, and Energy Products.

I would like to know why this is the new craze, and what the purpose of combining these two is. Controlled Labs was attacked relentlessly in late 2005 for having a writeup that said their Red Acid product (which contained Tyrosine) would be ok to stack with Yohimbine. I realize that people want to feel "jacked" but do you have any info showing that combining Tyrosine and Yohimbine is good? Or is it more of a "Everyone else is doing it and we are copying their formula"?

Bane, who was the biggest opponent at the time of this practice of combining had these things to say about the process.

Tyrosine which according to doctors in just as bad to mix with MAOI and is even worse to min Yohimbine, because Yohimbine is a Tyrosine Hydroxylase petentiatos, which means that instead of normal MAOIS which block catecholamins metabolism and cause dangerous interactions because of their increased concentration, Yohimbine both increases the production of Catecholamins AND blocks their further metabolism, which rougly makes it twice as dangerous from Tyramine.

Herbal Yohimbine is MORE dangerous than pure Yohimbine.

Will you please now admit that you failed to Google that apart from Tyramine Yohimbine shouldn't also be combined with Phenylalanine and Tyrosine andconsider changing your irresponsible FAQ to say that this combo is not recommended by any doctor and pharmacist on this planet and the if somebody tries it he is gambling with hypertension crisis?
Or will you still cross fingers hoping nobody dies?

It is a potent combination but not that dangerous unless you have an underlying medical condition. Its no more dangerous in fact than your general purpose fat burner.

[Skigazzi]

I got tired of this place for awhile... I am researching USP Labs products currently, and I figured it is time to un-retire here.

We all have at some point....good to see you are alive!

Good luck uncovering the "science" behind USP's stuff.