Staberella - Octopus intelligence

[Rune]

Meh. I know if I was going to be eaten by a tribe of cannibals, I would prefer that they kill me first.

Call me crazy.

So would I, but you don't get much of a say as food.

[JUSA]

stabarella/jassdolly: STFU you need to GTFO because you eat dead people, STFU you all are stupid im done here with this stupid thread.


does that about sum it up?

Negged, this rather silly conversation is already dumb enough without the blatant attempts to flame and rile people up.

For the record, I actually find myself leaning towards Sheduma/AKR on this one but the whole thing is just so stupid and spawned such a long debate that I really don't even know what to think other than the R&P has hit a new low.

My only other comment is how I laugh at how AKR or Sheduma jump into a thread where the other is participating and lend their "moral support" to the other and declare that their partner is right and won the debate.

Sheduma & AKR: Can you point to ONE single incident where you publically announced that you did not agree 100% with your partner? No? Not one?

As that's the case, it's really not needed from this point on for you guys to announce that you think the other won any E-debate as it's kind of a given that no matter how wrong either of you ever are that the other will always announce that they agree (not that I think this particular case really qualifies, but you get the point).

[SilverSpork]

Negged, this rather silly conversation is already dumb enough without the blatant attempts to flame and rile people up.

For the record, I actually find myself leaning towards Sheduma/AKR on this one but the whole thing is just so stupid and spawned such a long debate that I really don't even know what to think other than the R&P has hit a new low.

My only other comment is how I laugh at how AKR or Sheduma jump into a thread where the other is participating and lend their "moral support" to the other and declare that their partner is right and won the debate.

Sheduma & AKR: Can you point to ONE single incident where you publically announced that you did not agree 100% with your partner? No? Not one?

As that's the case, it's really not needed from this point on for you guys to announce that you think the other won any E-debate as it's kind of a given that no matter how wrong either of you ever are that the other will always announce that they agree (not that I think this particular case really qualifies, but you get the point).

Yeah, there is a 'super RP team' in this section. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

[Rune]

Um, this isn't just about eating something; it's specifically about eating something alive. You don't think you need a justification for that?

Heres one... eating. Two... fresh food and being connected to it is part of Eastern Culture.

Then why do I need a justification for eating my neighbor alive? Or torturing kittens for amusement? Or raping babies because I hate babies?

Purpose? Purpose? Purpose?

I love how you can take something like eating a live octopus and so quickly jump to raping babies. Your a smart one for sure.

Oh, well I guess that justifies anything you do. Just so long as it feels better for you, you can do anything you want. Remember that when I bite your mother's head off while she's still alive.

lol.. seriously? you really should hear how dumb you sound.



I'm done here, you bask in your 'moral superiority' AKR.

[AKR]

Yeah, because I own a bunch of cows that I could just go butcher...

I've killed animals to eat them, your not going to ever make me feel guilty about that, a Tool song puts it quite well.. "life feeds on life, this is necessary". It sounds to me like your the one who couldn't deal with having to eat meat if it meant having to kill it first.

I'd have no problem going out and putting a bullet in the heart of the animal if I needed meat. But I don't. I haven't bought meat in a while, and I only eat meat now and then when I eat dinner at my GF's place. I'm not saying no one should eat meat, but I feel bad supporting an industry that abuses it's livestock, and I don't want to go hunt moose or bears unless I absolutely have to for survival, because I don't like taking another creature's life. BTW, I don't believe Tool says anything about eating animals alive.

There really is no difference. That's my point.

It's not like they sit there and torture the damn animals for fun, they eat them.

Well, it's torture for taste. Whether they torture it for the sake of torture, or if they torture it because it tastes good, so what? And yes, there is a huge difference between killing something fast and clean, and eating it alive. WTF is wrong with you? How can you say there is no difference?

[Uninspired123]

Negged, this rather silly conversation is already dumb enough without the blatant attempts to flame and rile people up.

For the record, I actually find myself leaning towards Sheduma/AKR on this one but the whole thing is just so stupid and spawned such a long debate that I really don't even know what to think other than the R&P has hit a new low.

My only other comment is how I laugh at how AKR or Sheduma jump into a thread where the other is participating and lend their "moral support" to the other and declare that their partner is right and won the debate.

Sheduma & AKR: Can you point to ONE single incident where you publically announced that you did not agree 100% with your partner? No? Not one?

As that's the case, it's really not needed from this point on for you guys to announce that you think the other won any E-debate as it's kind of a given that no matter how wrong either of you ever are that the other will always announce that they agree (not that I think this particular case really qualifies, but you get the point).

you're obviously biased in your hatred towards them, man do you have a hard on for AKR and sheduma. It seems more like you follow them around in threads just pointing out this same thing over and over, we get it, you don't like them. Now run along kid.

[JUSA]

you're obviously biased in your hatred towards them, man do you have a hard on for AKR and sheduma.

Yes, which is why I said I actually lean towards them in this debate over my friend Staberella.

You see some people can actually make up their mind based on >>an issue<< and not whether they like the person making the argument or not. I am one of those people.

It seems more like you follow them around in threads just pointing out this same thing over and over, we get it, you don't like them. Now run along kid.

I'm as entitled as anyone else to say my peace, and unlike you, I'm actually able to coherently do it without making mindless insults like a blathering buffoon. So maybe you ought to sit out a bit in the kiddie corner and see how us growns-ups talk a little before you come back, Mkay?

[Fidelis]

I like turtles.

scratch that

I like octopi.







THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!

[Uninspired123]

Yes, which is why I said I actually lean towards them in this debate over my friend Staberella.

You see some people can actually make up their mind based on >>an issue<< and not whether they like the person making the argument or not. I am one of those people.

I'm as entitled as anyone else to say my peace, and unlike you, I'm actually able to coherently do it without making mindless insults like a blathering buffoon. So maybe you ought to sit out a bit in the kiddie corner and see how us growns-ups talk a little before you come back, Mkay?

yea, you can really focus on the issues which is why you're the big drama queen always attacking the both of them in any thread they make. Seriously, you make drama like a woman on here, it's so tiring. You also manage to spread that drama to other sections like when you were ripping on hokie. Turn on a soap opera, no one cares and we get that you don't like them. If you could actually focus on the issues we wouldn't have this problem, kid, so maybe you ought to sit out a bit in the kiddie corner and see how us growns-ups talk a little before you come back, Mkay?

yea and keep saying your "peace" hahha

[AKR]

Heres one... eating. Two... fresh food and being connected to it is part of Eastern Culture.

Um, that makes no sense. That's like sayig it's ok for me to rape a deer, cut it's tale off with a dull hack saw, stab it's eyes out with my dick, beat it with a salmon, and then chew threw it's neck, all while it's still alive.....because I need to eat. Eating only needs to involve a few things, and eating it alive is not one of them. You don't have to have something alive for it to be fresh, and excusing it as a cultural thing is pretty damn weak.

Purpose? Purpose? Purpose?

Well, what if I just eat them at the end of everything I do to them? I need to eat too, ya know!

I love how you can take something like eating a live octopus and so quickly jump to raping babies. Your a smart one for sure.

I love how you don't understand what an analogy is. You're pretty smart yourself, braniac.

lol.. seriously? you really should hear how dumb you sound.

Awww, what's the matter? Do you get upset when it actually involves someone you give a **** about? Damn those emotions when they actually work, huh?

I'm done here, you bask in your 'moral superiority' AKR.

You bet. How about you move on to the next thread, where someone is condemning rape, and tell them the same thing, genius. "Oh get off you're high horse, and stop telling people it's wrong to rape!" And before you get the dumb idea to say it's wrong to compare the two, try thinking a little harder and figure out what the f*ck an analogy is.

[JUSA]

yea, you can really focus on the issues which is why you're the big drama queen always attacking the both of them in any thread they make.

Hardly. And, since your only real contribution to this thread was to insult/attack Jasdolly - why do you think you're credibly able to whine about me being so mean to poor widdle AKR and Sheduma?

Seriously, you make drama like a woman on here, it's so tiring.

And this somehow contrasts what you are doing how? F*ck, at least I actually hit the topic a little with my post. All you've done is bitch, insult and add nothing.

You also manage to spread that drama to other sections like when you were ripping on hokie. Turn on a soap opera, no one cares and we get that you don't like them.

Hokie, laughably, wanted to fight me in real life and claimed to be a MMA master. He got what was coming to him.

If you could actually focus on the issues we wouldn't have this problem, kid, so maybe you ought to sit out a bit in the kiddie corner and see how us growns-ups talk a little before you come back, Mkay?

I say this as no real compliment to myself, but as your intellectual superior (which, again, isn't saying all that much), you really might consider taking a different approach in how you address me. Ok, kid?

[AKR]

I

THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!

Haha, awesome. That reminds me of the Family Guy where Stewie turned into half octopus after the nuclear war.

[JUSA]

AKR/Sheduma and other Octo-defenders - you're against eating these poor suckers alive because it's cruel and such - but isn't that just kind of how we humans are?

I mean, it goes so much beyond Octopi. Lobsters are boiled alive. Cows are slaughtered in just horrible ways and you know how veal is made, right? Somewhere they eat monkey brains with the monkies alive (saw that as a kid on one of those "faces of death" horrible videos)

Doesn't this go way beyond Asians and their culture? Isn't this just how we, man, as a species are? And if that is the case... well, what then?

Yea, we're not perfect. We do bad stuff.. but what can you do about it?

[joelz54_99]

Who seriously cares about this? 2 pages worth, that answers my question.

[QuicksandATL]

Um, this isn't just about eating something; it's specifically about eating something alive. You don't think you need a justification for that? Then why do I need a justification for eating my neighbor alive? Or torturing kittens for amusement? Or raping babies because I hate babies?

You're right. You need no justification because it doesn't matter either way.

[Uninspired123]

AKR/Sheduma and other Octo-defenders - you're against eating these poor suckers alive because it's cruel and such - but isn't that just kind of how we humans are?

I mean, it goes so much beyond Octopi. Lobsters are boiled alive. Cows are slaughtered in just horrible ways and you know how veal is made, right? Somewhere they eat monkey brains with the monkies alive (saw that as a kid on one of those "faces of death" horrible videos)

Doesn't this go way beyond Asians and their culture? Isn't this just how we, man, as a species are? And if that is the case... well, what then?

Yea, we're not perfect. We do bad stuff.. but what can you do about it?

Probably the ultimate cop out, we do bad stuff, it's in our nature, so what can we do? Obviously we can use our rationality knowing those things we do are bad. Lobsters being boiled alive, cows being slaughtered in any other way than a nailgun to the brain and anything like that OBVIOUSLY falls under the same issue as the octopi being eaten before they are properly killed. If we have the ability to end their suffering it is our duty to do it. No one ever said asians are the only people to do this, they are just one example of it. I don't get what you are arguing in this post, you recognize how bad some of those things are and in the same breath ask "what can we do about it?" Simple, we can NOT do those things you are mentioning.

[QuicksandATL]

I'm sorry you'd turn into a sobbing, pathetic mess, or that you'd go around torturing things while you gnawed on them, if you didn't have a murderious god to give you orders, but some of us don't work that way.

I wouldn't. However, what would be wrong about it? We are all an accident with no purpose and there is no authority over us, remember?

[JUSA]

Probably the ultimate cop out, we do bad stuff, it's in our nature, so what can we do? Obviously we can use our rationality knowing those things we do are bad. Lobsters being boiled alive, cows being slaughtered in any other way than a nailgun to the brain and anything like that OBVIOUSLY falls under the same issue as the octopi being eaten before they are properly killed. If we have the ability to end their suffering it is our duty to do it. No one ever said asians are the only people to do this, they are just one example of it. I don't get what you are arguing in this post, you recognize how bad some of those things are and in the same breath ask "what can we do about it?" Simple, we can NOT do those things you are mentioning.

In the original thread, which you chimed in a couple times to insult Staberella like you did in this thread (btw, think about that a little next time before you get mad at me for saying naught about AKR/Sheduma), it was about how AKR singled out Asian culture and their practice of eating Octopus alive.

So, I do kind of think it's a little relevant to bring up how every single other culture is essentially equally as inhumane as the Asians. While I may not personally agree with how they eat them: to single them out for doing something every other culture does seems a bit jumpy.

I'm sorry you weren't able to see that obvious connection. I tell you what, for your benefit, perhaps next time I'll only use tiny small words and be sure to point out what I'm saying no matter how obvious and easy to understand it is.

Lastly, I'm guessing you've never visited a slaughterhouse. I guess you think those cows get off pretty easy, eh? That's ok. I'm kind of used to you speaking out of your ass and talking about things you know nothing about. I suspect your capacity to learn new stuff is rather limited, but if you get a chance - go visit a slaughterhouse. Take in the sights, the smells and then come back here and let us know if you still think the way cows are treated is super-fantastic, Mkay?

[Fidelis]

AKR/Sheduma and other Octo-defenders - you're against eating these poor suckers alive because it's cruel and such - but isn't that just kind of how we humans are?

I mean, it goes so much beyond Octopi. Lobsters are boiled alive. Cows are slaughtered in just horrible ways and you know how veal is made, right? Somewhere they eat monkey brains with the monkies alive (saw that as a kid on one of those "faces of death" horrible videos)

Doesn't this go way beyond Asians and their culture? Isn't this just how we, man, as a species are? And if that is the case... well, what then?

Yea, we're not perfect. We do bad stuff.. but what can you do about it?

Yeah I really don't care very much about people eating octupi alive. I think it's kind of weird and wouldn't do it myself... I think I'd have too much empathy for the poor little things. I don't think I could eat something as it struggles with eight little arms against me, unless I was threatened with starvation.

[Uninspired123]

In the original thread, which you chimed in a couple times to insult Staberella like you did in this thread (btw, think about that a little next time before you get mad at me for saying naught about AKR/Sheduma), it was about how AKR singled out Asian culture and their practice of eating Octopus alive.

more drama, i added no drama in my last post, here's yours^^^^

So, I do kind of think it's a little relevant to bring up how every single other culture is essentially equally as inhumane as the Asians. While I may not personally agree with how they eat them: to single them out for doing something every other culture does seems a bit jumpy.

and i agreed with you saying everyone probably does this to a certain extent, but the thread was specifically about asians and octopi, so you continuing to argue this point makes no sense.

I'm sorry you weren't able to see that obvious connection. I tell you what, for your benefit, perhaps next time I'll only use tiny small words and be sure to point out what I'm saying no matter how obvious and easy to understand it is.

^^^^^drama^^^^^^

Lastly, I'm guessing you've never visited a slaughterhouse. I guess you think those cows get off pretty easy, eh? That's ok. I'm kind of used to you speaking out of your ass and talking about things you know nothing about. I suspect your capacity to learn new stuff is rather limited, but if you get a chance - go visit a slaughterhouse. Take in the sights, the smells and then come back here and let us know if you still think the way cows are treated is super-fantastic, Mkay?

Actually I have been to many slaughterhouses as I have friends in the industry. Sure there is much to be improved but you're making it out to be something it is not. In most cases cows are killed first by nailgun to the head or they are bled out quickly, not eaten alive.

this time try to not be so dramatic. honestly you yammering on and on about your intelligence is tiring.

[The_Big_E]

Probably the ultimate cop out, we do bad stuff, it's in our nature, so what can we do? Obviously we can use our rationality knowing those things we do are bad. Lobsters being boiled alive, cows being slaughtered in any other way than a nailgun to the brain and anything like that OBVIOUSLY falls under the same issue as the octopi being eaten before they are properly killed. If we have the ability to end their suffering it is our duty to do it. No one ever said asians are the only people to do this, they are just one example of it. I don't get what you are arguing in this post, you recognize how bad some of those things are and in the same breath ask "what can we do about it?" Simple, we can NOT do those things you are mentioning.

While I see the point of your post you are also failing to realise these are traditions that have been engrained into certain cultures. To these cultures there is absolutely nothing wrong about it because it's been done that way for THOUSANDS of years.

You don't just STOP doing thousands fo years of what is normal. It takes time and I can gaurantee you those cultures have come a long way toward changing things since they realise what is happening.

Johnnybomb is a good example in this thread, he mentioned Sharkfin Soup and how much he loved it and he also mentioned how it was harvested. Because of how it's harvested he is more reluctant to eat it. The thing is it's been harvested that way for YEARS and there has never been an issue until lately.

We are more aware of our surroundings and the creatures we share the Earth with now than we were thousands of years ago. Following tradition doesn't arbitrarily make somebody a "heartless piece of ****" and THAT is what spawned the original thread which ultimately spawned THIS thread.

[AKR]

I wouldn't. However, what would be wrong about it? We are all an accident with no purpose and there is no authority over us, remember?

This is for another thread. I think we've already been through this together anyway.

[Uninspired123]

While I see the point of your post you are also failing to realise these are traditions that have been engrained into certain cultures. To these cultures there is absolutely nothing wrong about it because it's been done that way for THOUSANDS of years.

You don't just STOP doing thousands fo years of what is normal. It takes time and I can gaurantee you those cultures have come a long way toward changing things since they realise what is happening.

Johnnybomb is a good example in this thread, he mentioned Sharkfin Soup and how much he loved it and he also mentioned how it was harvested. Because of how it's harvested he is more reluctant to eat it. The thing is it's been harvested that way for YEARS and there has never been an issue until lately.

We are more aware of our surroundings and the creatures we share the Earth with now than we were thousands of years ago. Following tradition doesn't arbitrarily make somebody a "heartless piece of ****" and THAT is what spawned the original thread which ultimately spawned THIS thread.

Yep, i pretty much agree with all of that. I don't think someone's a heartless piece of **** for doing it, but I do think they're NOT thinking about what they're doing while they're doing it because it's so ingrained.

[The_Big_E]

Yep, i pretty much agree with all of that. I don't think someone's a heartless piece of **** for doing it, but I do think they're NOT thinking about what they're doing while they're doing it because it's so ingrained.

Yep, exactly... there is no vile or evil intent to "tortue my food" before I eat it. Great Grandma ate it this way, Grandma ate it this way, mom ate it this way... I'll eat it this way!

[JamesGatz83]

Ah, all this time wasted on the feelings of slimy, ocean-dwelling inverterbrates.

There are evolutionary reasons why we ought not be concerned with the feelings of octopi, you know.

Spending all this time battling for the rights of octopi will not ensure that our genes are furthered, nor is there any chance that an octopus will reciprocate.

If you want a cause, there are plenty worthy ones within the bounds of humanity. Making sure octopi don't suffer should check in somewhere after about a billion other issues on our list of priorities.

The fact that it's unacceptable because they're of above average intelligence is a ridiculous argument, too. Would it be acceptable to torture a mentally disabled human being just because he or she was less intelligent? Intelligence shouldn't figure in to this discussion.

Animals do not deserve the same rights afforded to humans. There is a food chain, and we're on top. If I wandered into the savannah unarmed, I wouldn't expect a lion to ensure that I didn't suffer while he ate me.

[XMX]

went out with my parents to eat yesterday and my dad had octopus. At first i was like WTF but then i ended up eating some, lol

[AKR]

While I see the point of your post you are also failing to realise these are traditions that have been engrained into certain cultures. To these cultures there is absolutely nothing wrong about it because it's been done that way for THOUSANDS of years.

You don't just STOP doing thousands fo years of what is normal. It takes time and I can gaurantee you those cultures have come a long way toward changing things since they realise what is happening.

My culture has been adhering to christianity for thousands of years-I stopped in about 15-20. My culture has been treating men as superior to women for hundreds or thousands of years. I stopped in even less time. You and others are too wrapped up in culture. Stop thinking so hard about culture and start thinking about individual actions. Deconstruct everything and reconstruct your own system apart from what everyone else in your culture is doing. Would you justify cultures that rape women or stone them? Would you justify cultures that cut off the clitorus and sew the vagina shut? How far will you go to justify things in the name of tradition and culture?

Johnnybomb is a good example in this thread, he mentioned Sharkfin Soup and how much he loved it and he also mentioned how it was harvested. Because of how it's harvested he is more reluctant to eat it. The thing is it's been harvested that way for YEARS and there has never been an issue until lately.

We are more aware of our surroundings and the creatures we share the Earth with now than we were thousands of years ago. Following tradition doesn't arbitrarily make somebody a "heartless piece of ****" and THAT is what spawned the original thread which ultimately spawned THIS thread.

Her thread's titled intent was false, just so you know. Yes, she started it because she was offended at my statement, but the entire stance she said I had was dishonest. What is the definition of "heartless?" Someone who has no sympathy for other creatures? If you are perfectly happy to purposefully eat something alive, simply for the taste, that is heartless, regardless of cultural context. Culture does nothing to soothe a creature being eaten alive, does it?

[AKR]

Yep, exactly... there is no vile or evil intent to "tortue my food" before I eat it. Great Grandma ate it this way, Grandma ate it this way, mom ate it this way... I'll eat it this way!

The intent may not be to torture, but if someone knows it is a side effect, then they are heartless. Look at Rune. He doesn't care if it feels pain. I will agree if they do not understand what the animal is going through that it is not heartless. But then, to me, that just makes them stupid for not thinking an animal will feel pain while it's being eaten alive.

[JamesGatz83]

My culture has been adhering to christianity for thousands of years-I stopped in about 15-20. My culture has been treating men as superior to women for hundreds or thousands of years. I stopped in even less time. You and others are too wrapped up in culture. Stop thinking so hard about culture and start thinking about individual actions. Deconstruct everything and reconstruct your own system apart from what everyone else in your culture is doing. Would you justify cultures that rape women or stone them? Would you justify cultures that cut off the clitorus and sew the vagina shut? How far will you go to justify things in the name of tradition and culture?

Comparing crimes against humanity to crimes against octopi is absolutely ridiculous and more than a little deluded.

[JUSA]

Ah, all this time wasted on the feelings of slimy, ocean-dwelling inverterbrates. SNIP

Yea, just because a octopus isn't going to reciprocate or show any appreciation for your fighting for their... I'm not going to say rights, but let's say humane treatment - isn't a reason to not do it.

Of course animals aren't going to appreciate us for this, they are animals. We, on the other hand, are capable of more than that. We understand and have empathy - something they don't. Shouldn't we expect more from ourselves than we would of a lion in the jungle?

We all have instincts. Most of them, if we just did what felt good or what are instincts would have us do, would be very wrong. We have morals and higher ideals which we apsire for.

So, I don't know who is right here or not, but I don't think it's right to suggest what you were saying. Maybe there are other reasons why it's OK to eat these creatures alive but I don't think what you said is one of them.