lower abs without the hip flexors

[Jotun]

Contracting the "opposing" muscle group doesn't mean that the psoas is not contracting. Best example: both your quads are hamstrings are working pretty hard during squats or leg presses, and they are opposite.

In a compound movement it is harder to distinguish, as the hamstrings work around two joints.
Isolation movements are easier to control.

It is important to note that the Janda situp that prescribes pulling through the feet has been shown to actually increase the involvement of the psoas due to pelvic rotation from the downward pressure applied by the feet. This is why Pavel has said to only have resistance on behind the calves so the pelvis will not tilt and the psoas will not try to bring the pelvis back to a neutral position.

[culu]

The Pavel post regarding the contraction of the antagonistic muscle groups relates to the notion that when an antagonistic muscle is contracted the motor sensory loop will inhibit contraction of the other muscle. In this case hip flexors and the iliopsoas and the hamstrings which are hip extensors. Not trying to cause an argument or contradict anyone just explaining the science behind why that movement should work. As ATrainer said the major issue is causing lordosis of the lumbar spine. While this might not be a concern now as we are all relatively young it can lead to problems further down the road

[ATrainer]

Okey dokey, I'll try to explain:
In order to minimize their action, you must contract their opposing muscle group: the knee flexors (hamstrings). Doing so will cause the forced-relaxation of the psoas, allowing the abdominals to do a majority of the work involved in a crunch.

This does have some truth to it. Active isolated stretching works on this principle. Flex the antagonist to relax the target. And also, I have experienced hamstring cramps during my exercise, but this may largely be caused by pulling the feet backward to create a wedge of my thigh under the pad. However, I disagree with Pavel's fix. Doing crunches while activating the hams is still exclusive of the lower abs.

And CULU, I can tell you know the reality of the physiology. You should see my ab exercise. It is perfect. I had it published in Natural Bodybuilding & Fitness. Nothing compares.

[bigpump23]

I had it published in Natural Bodybuilding & Fitness. Nothing compares.

I've given you props before but I'll give it to you again

[meerkat3.14]

You should never curve your back to sit up/leg raise, always keep the butt pushed back and the pelvis tilted back -like good form on a squat. If you sit up properly, you'll only come a few inches off the floor, none of that touching knees rubbish. I don't know if this keeps flexors out, but it saves your spine from grief that will eventually catch up with you. It could be on sit up 100 or 100,000+, or tieing shoe laces, but when it does that's that.

[tweack182]

Is there a good lower ab exersice that doesn't use your hip flexors all that much.

Can you only work your lower abs or do you just work them all in genrel.

I am a student in a physical therapy doctrate program and as long as you do not flex (bend) at the hip, you will not activate the hip flexors. Crunches where you curl like a tube of toothepaste, starting at the head, only going as far as it takes to lift the shoulder blades from the ground are the way to go. The Ab function you are working is bringing your sternum closer to your pelvis linearly. A common mistake people make is doing all of their abdominal work bending at the hip, this will result in Anterior Pelvic Tilt, which is a pain to correct as it can take months.

[tweack182]

You should never curve your back to sit up/leg raise, always keep the butt pushed back and the pelvis tilted back -like good form on a squat. If you sit up properly, you'll only come a few inches off the floor, none of that touching knees rubbish. I don't know if this keeps flexors out, but it saves your spine from grief that will eventually catch up with you. It could be on sit up 100 or 100,000+, or tieing shoe laces, but when it does that's that.

Actually, The flexion and extension of the spine bring nutrients to disks of your vertebral column readying it for more movement. The Cat/Camel warmup in Physical Therapy utilizes this.

[meerkat3.14]

Actually, The flexion and extension of the spine bring nutrients to disks of your vertebral column readying it for more movement. The Cat/Camel warmup in Physical Therapy utilizes this.

I don't see the relevance of your information to my post. Yes I know this is an old post. I am talking about curving the spine to perform a sit up, a load bearing exercise that strains the spine. You are talking about movement aiding circulation. You can flex your spine without issue AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOT LOADING THE SPINE.

[Vickilechuga]

Why would you want to cut a muscle group out of an exercise? The more worked, the better! If you want your lower abs to do more work, just work them more...

I avoid certain muscle groups when they are either injured, too bulky, or not allowing me to work my take group.

[SuffolkPunch]

Check thread dates before bumping ancient threads please.