The Metabolic Slowdown Thread

[boxteross]

I've got a question... all the calorie calculators put my BMR at ~1700cals and my TDEE at ~2050... a 15-20% deficit puts me at or slightly under my BMR... I'm trying to maintain a 1lb/week loss, but according to these calculators, i'd have to drop under my BMR to do so... thoughts on this?

Stick with the rule of thumb 10-20% or drop down under BMR to continue losing at that rate? According to the calculators estimate, i'd have to be at 1550cals to lose at 1lb/week...

Online BMR and TDEE calculators can be quite inaccurate.
At what caloric intake are you maintaining your weight currently? Find that first then subtract 500cal per day for a 3500 per week deficit

[lee__d]

I've got a question... all the calorie calculators put my BMR at ~1700cals and my TDEE at ~2050... a 15-20% deficit puts me at or slightly under my BMR... I'm trying to maintain a 1lb/week loss, but according to these calculators, i'd have to drop under my BMR to do so... thoughts on this?

Stick with the rule of thumb 10-20% or drop down under BMR to continue losing at that rate? According to the calculators estimate, i'd have to be at 1550cals to lose at 1lb/week...

Online BMR and TDEE calculators can be quite inaccurate.
At what caloric intake are you maintaining your weight currently? Find that first then subtract 500cal per day for a 3500 per week deficit

^ I agree, and I would try not dip below estimated BMR anyway.

[Zafir]

I think the number one killer of metabolism is going under 100 gramms of carbs per day for a long period. Biggest mistake of my shredding carrier lol but I learned a lesson there.

[lee__d]

I think the number one killer of metabolism is going under 100 gramms of carbs per day for a long period. Biggest mistake of my shredding carrier lol but I learned a lesson there.

Yes, most of us active folks are going to be better off NOT lowering carbs to extreme levels.

[gacman8]

hey guys i think i may have finally found what im looking for. I just finished reading every single post in this thread so ill share my story. I was 242 pounds in may of 2011. I started dieting at 2300 cals and got down to around 200. Then over the next year i went down to about 175. Verrrrrry slow process. (I think my metabolism slowed and i kept dropping cals) Since january I have been at 172 the lowest and have been stuck around that weight for 7 months straight. I eat 1800 cals a day religiously with a refeed each week now. Im losing my mind. I do Plyometrics and intense weight lifting 5-7 times a week. My TDEE using that calculator from the thread shows about 3000 cals a day.

I started a few days ago eating 1900 cals a day and will bump it up 100 cals each week. My question is when should I stop and go back to cutting? How will i know my maintenance? Every time I refeed, I gain about 6-8 pounds (prolly water weight) but it takes about 8 days to go back to normal which i rarely get to see because every 7 days is a refeed so it looks like im gaining weight if i start at 172 then bloat up to 180 and drop back down to 173-174 when i reefeed again and go up to 181, it looks like im gaining weight.

How do i figure out my true weight?

[boxteross]

hey guys i think i may have finally found what im looking for. I just finished reading every single post in this thread so ill share my story. I was 242 pounds in may of 2011. I started dieting at 2300 cals and got down to around 200. Then over the next year i went down to about 175. Verrrrrry slow process. (I think my metabolism slowed and i kept dropping cals) Since january I have been at 172 the lowest and have been stuck around that weight for 7 months straight. I eat 1800 cals a day religiously with a refeed each week now. Im losing my mind. I do Plyometrics and intense weight lifting 5-7 times a week. My TDEE using that calculator from the thread shows about 3000 cals a day.

I started a few days ago eating 1900 cals a day and will bump it up 100 cals each week. My question is when should I stop and go back to cutting? How will i know my maintenance? Every time I refeed, I gain about 6-8 pounds (prolly water weight) but it takes about 8 days to go back to normal which i rarely get to see because every 7 days is a refeed so it looks like im gaining weight if i start at 172 then bloat up to 180 and drop back down to 173-174 when i reefeed again and go up to 181, it looks like im gaining weight.

How do i figure out my true weight?

How large are your refeeds in comparison to your day to day macros? What does your training program look like? Cardio?

[gacman8]

How large are your refeeds in comparison to your day to day macros? What does your training program look like? Cardio?

Refeeds usually consist of a cheat meal (meal being going out drinking on saturdays, maybe some food afterwards last week it was a slice of pizza, week before it was fried chicken, week before a slice of pizza, etc. usually to soak up the alcohol) So its all carbs. Training is 2-3 days of insanity (plyometrics) and 3-4 days of weights and occasionally some p90x thrown in.

[ChuckTheRipper]

Good thread. Ive cut my instake drastically before and lost some good weight but then got stuck. Refeeded. Maintained a decent caloric level and now I just fluctuate my caloric intake. Sometimes I take several cheat days in a row. Still lost pounds.

I would like to add. I think your daily protein intake is essential no matter what. Cheat day, drastic calorie cut, one day "fasting", etc.

[boxteross]

Refeeds usually consist of a cheat meal (meal being going out drinking on saturdays, maybe some food afterwards last week it was a slice of pizza, week before it was fried chicken, week before a slice of pizza, etc. usually to soak up the alcohol) So its all carbs. Training is 2-3 days of insanity (plyometrics) and 3-4 days of weights and occasionally some p90x thrown in.

I can see a few things straight off the bat that could, and most probably are, hurting your progress. First off a cheat meal is not a 'refeed', a refeed is a calculated increase in cals, usually carbs to help keep the metabolism rolling. You are most likely underestimating your cals for the 'cheat meals' and alcohol. One other thing on the cheats.. It's not as you say "all carbs", pizza generally has a very high fat content and alcohol isn't carbs its alcohol which yields 7 cals/g, much higher than carbs (4cal/g). I would first sort this out and once you are on top of your nutrition being accurate, then you can look to make changes to your routine. I'm not saying its absolutely useless, but p90x isn't going to give you much bang for your buck, results will be slow if any at all. I'd recommend a full body workout 3 times per week, look up rippetoe's 'Starting Strength' program, it is unreal an would go a long way to helping you progress!

[gacman8]

I can see a few things straight off the bat that could, and most probably are, hurting your progress. First off a cheat meal is not a 'refeed', a refeed is a calculated increase in cals, usually carbs to help keep the metabolism rolling. You are most likely underestimating your cals for the 'cheat meals' and alcohol. One other thing on the cheats.. It's not as you say "all carbs", pizza generally has a very high fat content and alcohol isn't carbs its alcohol which yields 7 cals/g, much higher than carbs (4cal/g). I would first sort this out and once you are on top of your nutrition being accurate, then you can look to make changes to your routine. I'm not saying its absolutely useless, but p90x isn't going to give you much bang for your buck, results will be slow if any at all. I'd recommend a full body workout 3 times per week, look up rippetoe's 'Starting Strength' program, it is unreal an would go a long way to helping you progress!

It was a generalization about the refeeds. I actually put them into my fitness pal even my drinks too. I go with vodka diet sprite or rum and diet coke. I just didn't feel like typing it out but if thats what you wanna focus on ill have to get specific. My refeeds consist of 4-6 drinks and maybe a piece of pizza or chicken or something. On average over the last few months it has been between 2500-3000 cals 50-70 g fat 150-250 carbs and 180 -200 g protein for my reffed days. I know that pizza has fat and carbs and it is calculated in. Im not new here ive been at this for 2 years straight. My problem is a 7 month long plateau. And don't knock insanity and p90x. They are harder than you know and burn alot of calories. (500-1000)And if you read closly you would have read that I do 3-4 days of weights and OCCASIONALLY P90X.

And everyone seemed to completely miss my questions

My question is when should I stop and go back to cutting?

How will i know my maintenance?

how do i fugure out my true weight?

[boxteross]

It was a generalization about the refeeds. I actually put them into my fitness pal even my drinks too. I go with vodka diet sprite or rum and diet coke. I just didn't feel like typing it out but if thats what you wanna focus on ill have to get specific. My refeeds consist of 4-6 drinks and maybe a piece of pizza or chicken or something. On average over the last few months it has been between 2500-3000 cals 50-70 g fat 150-250 carbs and 180 -200 g protein for my reffed days. I know that pizza has fat and carbs and it is calculated in. Im not new here ive been at this for 2 years straight. My problem is a 7 month long plateau. And don't knock insanity and p90x. They are harder than you know and burn alot of calories. (500-1000)And if you read closly you would have read that I do 3-4 days of weights and OCCASIONALLY P90X.

And everyone seemed to completely miss my questions

My question is when should I stop and go back to cutting?

How will i know my maintenance?

how do i fugure out my true weight?

You weren't real clear was just trying to give constructive feedback to help you out.

From what you've now said, I would still try to make my refeed macros consistent each week, within 5-10g. If your weight is rebounding and taking longer than 2-3 days to stabilize you may need to decrease carbs a bit. Weighing yourself first thing in the morning after using the bathroom, at the same time each day and getting an average for the week is the only way to get an accurate read.

P90x and insanity may be a great way to burn calories but last thing you should be trying to do is use weightlifting to burn calories. Lift heavy to maintain lean body mass, burn calories at other times during the day and through cardio. If cardio is affecting weight room performance ie strength is decreasing then you are not being optimal. (Not saying you are losing strength just something to look at). If you are having to do huge amounts of cardio and lower cals too far and still not seeing weight loss it might be time to reverse diet to try get metabolism firing again before eventually continuing your cut. Do this by adding 15g carbs each week, you may experience slight weight gain initially some of which will be glycogen (some even notice weight loss once food increases as metabolism gets going again). If weight is increasing too quickly stop adding carbs until weight stabilizes then continue adding until you get your cals back up and eventually find your maintenance. If fats fall below 20% of total cals increase by 5g instead of carbs for that week. I would recommend dropping cardio back to offseason levels when reversing.

These are just general guidelines but by the sounds of your situation you have already lost a considerable amount of weight (well done), so rebuilding your met rate might be the answer. Depending on how your body responds to the increase in cals will determine how long it will be before you can return to a defecit.

[nickyfondz]

It was a generalization about the refeeds. I actually put them into my fitness pal even my drinks too. I go with vodka diet sprite or rum and diet coke. I just didn't feel like typing it out but if thats what you wanna focus on ill have to get specific. My refeeds consist of 4-6 drinks and maybe a piece of pizza or chicken or something. On average over the last few months it has been between 2500-3000 cals 50-70 g fat 150-250 carbs and 180 -200 g protein for my reffed days. I know that pizza has fat and carbs and it is calculated in. Im not new here ive been at this for 2 years straight. My problem is a 7 month long plateau. And don't knock insanity and p90x. They are harder than you know and burn alot of calories. (500-1000)And if you read closly you would have read that I do 3-4 days of weights and OCCASIONALLY P90X.

And everyone seemed to completely miss my questions

My question is when should I stop and go back to cutting?

How will i know my maintenance?

how do i fugure out my true weight?

I was in the same boat, just at a different weight. I was stuck at 165 eating 2000cal/day. I did a 4 day refeed at 2700 (maintenance) and then bounced back down to 2400cal/day and started losing fat. Didn't put on any weight during the refeed and I can almost feel my metabolism going a little faster.

[lee__d]

I can see a few things straight off the bat that could, and most probably are, hurting your progress. First off a cheat meal is not a 'refeed', a refeed is a calculated increase in cals, usually carbs to help keep the metabolism rolling. You are most likely underestimating your cals for the 'cheat meals' and alcohol. One other thing on the cheats.. It's not as you say "all carbs", pizza generally has a very high fat content and alcohol isn't carbs its alcohol which yields 7 cals/g, much higher than carbs (4cal/g). I would first sort this out and once you are on top of your nutrition being accurate, then you can look to make changes to your routine. I'm not saying its absolutely useless, but p90x isn't going to give you much bang for your buck, results will be slow if any at all. I'd recommend a full body workout 3 times per week, look up rippetoe's 'Starting Strength' program, it is unreal an would go a long way to helping you progress!

I agree here. A refeed should be low fat, high carb, low-mod protein. You could be underestimating the calories of these cheats as mentioned. Alcohol probably should be avoided on a refeed as it's a different beast metabolically. i'm not saying don't ever go out drinking, but I'd eat high protein earlier on and save some cals for going out. http://www.leangains.com/2010/07/tru...nd-muscle.html

Also agree about the routine.

[joe24916]

Had my bf% measured today and apparently it went up 2% in a month. It was done with calipers and I know they're not the most accurate but it was a decent increase. When checking the numbers my biceps measured bigger slightly but the most significant increases were around my lower abs and back. What gives? I am currently at 200 carbs 75 fat and about 225 protein having 2,400 cals a day. That's not even my maintenance causing me to still be in a deficit so how am I gaining fat? I also gained I think 2 pounds. My activity level has increased significantly as well since I walk so much at work plus my lifting so I feel I am burning a lot more calories than before yet I'm gaining. I'm not too worried about the whole matter just curious as to how this is even possible lol what happened to cals in v cals out? I'm slowly increasing too. The only thing I can think of is that this past weekend I had a few meals with more sodium than I typically consume so perhaps the water weight could have influenced the numbers?

[gacman8]

I agree here. A refeed should be low fat, high carb, low-mod protein. You could be underestimating the calories of these cheats as mentioned. Alcohol probably should be avoided on a refeed as it's a different beast metabolically. i'm not saying don't ever go out drinking, but I'd eat high protein earlier on and save some cals for going out. http://www.leangains.com/2010/07/tru...nd-muscle.html

Also agree about the routine.

So basically,
eat 20 g fat 115 g carbs and 170-200 g protein when im drinking and do a refeed day a different day than my drinking day is my takeaway from the article.

BTW guys started bumping up calories and im at 2000 cals now and im down to the lowest weight ive been in weeks and thats after two days of drinking (5-6 shots saturday and 2 glasses of wine sunday)

[lee__d]

Had my bf% measured today and apparently it went up 2% in a month. It was done with calipers and I know they're not the most accurate but it was a decent increase. When checking the numbers my biceps measured bigger slightly but the most significant increases were around my lower abs and back. What gives? I am currently at 200 carbs 75 fat and about 225 protein having 2,400 cals a day. That's not even my maintenance causing me to still be in a deficit so how am I gaining fat? I also gained I think 2 pounds. My activity level has increased significantly as well since I walk so much at work plus my lifting so I feel I am burning a lot more calories than before yet I'm gaining. I'm not too worried about the whole matter just curious as to how this is even possible lol what happened to cals in v cals out? I'm slowly increasing too. The only thing I can think of is that this past weekend I had a few meals with more sodium than I typically consume so perhaps the water weight could have influenced the numbers?

Maybe it is your maintenance? I wouldn't be too concerned with calipers, but rather keep an eye on progress pics.

[lee__d]

So basically,
eat 20 g fat 115 g carbs and 170-200 g protein when im drinking and do a refeed day a different day than my drinking day is my takeaway from the article.

BTW guys started bumping up calories and im at 2000 cals now and im down to the lowest weight ive been in weeks and thats after two days of drinking (5-6 shots saturday and 2 glasses of wine sunday)

I mean, if you really need to have a weekly drinking day (and I'm not talking a few beers at the bar), then yea I guess you should implement a strategy. If you're just having some beers, then just save some calories and don't go too crazy.

[Retoaded]

I mean, if you really need to have a weekly drinking day (and I'm not talking a few beers at the bar), then yea I guess you should implement a strategy. If you're just having some beers, then just save some calories and don't go too crazy.

honestly 5-6 shots (100 cal each prolly for decent sized shots) and 2 glasses of wine (300 cal)....I mean, I would think you could find room in your calories for 800 calories in a week!

[lee__d]

honestly 5-6 shots (100 cal each prolly for decent sized shots) and 2 glasses of wine (300 cal)....I mean, I would think you could find room in your calories for 800 calories in a week!

word

[joe24916]

Maybe it is your maintenance? I wouldn't be too concerned with calipers, but rather keep an eye on progress pics.

I hope it's not haha 2,400! When I first started this it was estimated to be 2,600 online then around 2,900 after taking into consideration my new job..too much confusion

[joe24916]

So the first pic is from April and the second is from a few days ago..you guys mind giving me opinions? I might not see as much of a difference as others let alone at all..I'd appreciate it..forgot to try and take similar pictures in order to have angles and what not match up for a better comparison

[lee__d]

So the first pic is from April and the second is from a few days ago..you guys mind giving me opinions? I might not see as much of a difference as others let alone at all..I'd appreciate it..forgot to try and take similar pictures in order to have angles and what not match up for a better comparison

Chest looks better, and you look virtually the same leanness, so I'd say it's going well

[joe24916]

Chest looks better, and you look virtually the same leanness, so I'd say it's going well

Yeah I mean I feel I have improved on my chest it's always been my only strong point pretty much

[lee__d]

Yeah I mean I feel I have improved on my chest it's always been my only strong point pretty much

What's your entire routine? Sorry if you've posted t already

[joe24916]

What's your entire routine? Sorry if you've posted t already

It's changed a bunch to adjust to my new job..but Monday=back/abs/legs Tuesday=Arms Wednesday=Chest/shoulders Thursday rest Friday Back/abs/legs Saturday=Arms Sunday=chest/shoulders..no cardio since I walk so much at work..I've managed to up the intensity I have even got stronger in all areas idk if I should attribute that to the preworkout or what but I know I gained some strength..some areas like abs I dropped the frequency so maybe that's why they're going away as well..any sort of criticism regarding my routine is welcome I know there can be improvements.

[lee__d]

It's changed a bunch to adjust to my new job..but Monday=back/abs/legs Tuesday=Arms Wednesday=Chest/shoulders Thursday rest Friday Back/abs/legs Saturday=Arms Sunday=chest/shoulders..no cardio since I walk so much at work..I've managed to up the intensity I have even got stronger in all areas idk if I should attribute that to the preworkout or what but I know I gained some strength..some areas like abs I dropped the frequency so maybe that's why they're going away as well..any sort of criticism regarding my routine is welcome I know there can be improvements.

Right off the bat, without knowing the specific movements (you can write out the entire routine so I can comment better - if you'd like), having legs and back (two big groups) on the same day would suggest to me that intensity might be lacking on the part you hit second. I probably wouldn't have two arms days. Regardless of whether the pwo helped, you are moving more weight, which matters.

[joe24916]

Right off the bat, without knowing the specific movements (you can write out the entire routine so I can comment better - if you'd like), having legs and back (two big groups) on the same day would suggest to me that intensity might be lacking on the part you hit second. I probably wouldn't have two arms days. Regardless of whether the pwo helped, you are moving more weight, which matters.

My bad
-Back:Lat pulldown 3 sets 8-10
Dumbell row 3 sets 8-10
Seated cable rows 3 sets 8-10
Tbar row 3 sets 8-10
-Legs:Squats (barely got used to doing them) 3 sets 10-12
Leg extensions 3 8-10
Leg curls 3 8-10
Leg press 4 8-12
Calf raises 4 12-15
Seated calf raises 4 12-15
-Arms:Wide grips bbell curls 4 8-12
Dumbbell curls 3-8-10
Preacher curls 3 8-10
Close grip ez bar 3 8-10
Hammer curls 3 8-10
Overhead trice[ extension 3 10-12
Skull crushers 3 10-12
Dips 3 10-12
CG bench (I alternate this and dips) 3 10-12
Rope pulldowns 3 8-10
Any other pulldown to finish it off 3 8-10
-Chest:Flatbench dumbell 3 8-12
Decline 3 8-12
Incline 3 8-12
Flys 3 8-10
Hammer machine 3 8-10
Pec deck or whatever it's called 3 8-10
-Shouldersumbell shoulder press 3 10-12
Shrugs 4 8-12
Lateral raises 4 8-10
Front raises 4 8-10
Reverse flys 3 10-12

Like I said there's probably a ton wrong with this but I feel I have been making progress so it's been my go to routine.

[lee__d]

My bad

-Back:Lat pulldown 3 sets 8-10
Dumbell row 3 sets 8-10
Seated cable rows 3 sets 8-10
Tbar row 3 sets 8-10
.
-Legs:Squats (barely got used to doing them) 3 sets 10-12
Leg extensions 3 8-10
Leg curls 3 8-10
Leg press 4 8-12
Calf raises 4 12-15
Seated calf raises 4 12-15
.
-Arms:Wide grips bbell curls 4 8-12
Dumbbell curls 3-8-10
Preacher curls 3 8-10
Close grip ez bar 3 8-10
Hammer curls 3 8-10
Overhead trice[ extension 3 10-12
Skull crushers 3 10-12
Dips 3 10-12
CG bench (I alternate this and dips) 3 10-12
Rope pulldowns 3 8-10
Any other pulldown to finish it off 3 8-10
.
-Chest:Flatbench dumbell 3 8-12
Decline 3 8-12
Incline 3 8-12
Flys 3 8-10
Hammer machine 3 8-10
Pec deck or whatever it's called 3 8-10
.
-Shouldersumbell shoulder press 3 10-12
Shrugs 4 8-12
Lateral raises 4 8-10
Front raises 4 8-10
Reverse flys 3 10-12

Like I said there's probably a ton wrong with this but I feel I have been making progress so it's been my go to routine.

I think you just have a ton of fluff in there. So much arm stuff, etc.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...63&pagenumber=
Blaha's 5x5 would be good.

I love 531 so a 531 variation could work.

[boxteross]

I think you just have a ton of fluff in there. So much arm stuff, etc.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...63&pagenumber=
Blaha's 5x5 would be good.

I love 531 so a 531 variation could work.

^^ agreed.. You could be using your time much more efficiently. Look up a tried and true program (strting strength, 5/3/1, blahas 5x5 etc) and stick with it for a good amount of time. Don't change the program to suit yourself, do it as its written, ensure you are eating enough to suit your goals and get adequate rest.. Results will come, patience is key!

[joe24916]

I'll look into it for sure thank you both. I have a question though why is it I'm gaining weight at 2,400 cals? I'm way more active than before and obviously have begun to eat more but I'm still in a deficit. Could I be increasing too quick?