Problem with Extreme Anxiety

[indian23]

Any of you guys ever took Propanolol? Helped me out now I hardly get attacks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propranolol

[Frickin50]

I have been taking EXffexor for 6 years with great results. Only down side is libido gets cut in half. So you have to decide if you want to be Mr. Horny and risk a sudden trip to your bedroom in the fetal position. Or be kind of horny and get that knot out of you stomach and fear of life feeling. Personnally I go with the former.
Diazapam is like ***** only it lasts much longer and is less addictive. Lastly Propranalol is good if your just a little anxious. Booze is a bad choice because you smell like a drunk, however, if thats not an issue. Alcohol is a great depressant. Can go either way though.

Pm me if you want more info. Been fighting this malady since 9/11.

My program works.

[indian23]

What do you other guys think about Propanolol?

[Johnson9]

Holy ****!

That is exactly what I thought as I was reading it.
Particularly the part about mind altering drugs 'differing' effects on healthy and mentally unhealthy people. You don't have to be mentally ill to have adverse effects from heroin or LSD, they are mind altering drugs too.

How about we have some input from a REAL doctor - a forensic psychiatrist who isn't blinded by pharmapseudocal non-evidence based "science"


http://ssri-uksupport.com/files/Luci...aringonADs.pdf

http://ssri-uksupport.com/files/luci...alpractice.pdf

http://ssri-uksupport.com/files/Luci...useSuicide.pdf


One particularly for "doctors" who manage to miss and dismiss patients serious adverse effects altogether, thus contributing to iatrogenic suicidality and homicidality:

http://www.smj.org.uk/1001/aka1001.htm


Too many "doctors" give benzos such as diazepam to patients on SSRIs and SNRIs because they subdue the side effects of akathisia and severe agitation and thus calm them down - and completely the miss the point that it was the SSRI that caused the agitation in the first place! Then they say rather uneducated things like - I've seen people in difficulty coming off benzos, but not off SSRIs. (Think about it).

This link:

http://www.socialaudit.org.uk/58048-DH.htm

"...Agitation/Akathisia

The evidence that SSRIs cause agitation comes directly from the clinical trial programs run by the market authorization holders, where approximately 5% of patients have dropped out because of drug induced agitation. Rates of drop-out for agitation are significantly greater than for placebo.

These clinical trial findings in depressed patients are corroborated by the results from healthy volunteer studies..."

Please note in the above that the results in healthy volunteers corroborate those of the clinical trials with depressed patients.

ie, there is no magic difference between the way depressed and happy people react neurophysiologically towards toxic chemical reactions anymore than they do towards heroin or LSD, or to a toxic spill on a road.

Certainly the drug makers knew all along. Pfizer for instance knew that zoloft caused akathisia. And GSK knew Paxil had this problem - to the extent that they sent confidential internal memos around amongst their staff and their reps with cartoons of agitated patients added:

http://ssri-uksupport.com/files/GSKwheresmypaxil.pdf


A proportion of the population find it harder than others to metabolise chemicals because of Cytrochrome P450 - as ANY educated doctor would know by now. Any chemicals. Not EVERYONE collapses when there's a toxic leak. Some get a headache, some find they can't get an erection, some will become seriously affected.

http://ssri-uksupport.com/files/DrLu...radigmatic.pdf

Doctors who don't listen or research - sometimes because they arrogantly believe that once qualified they know everything and have no need to keep up to date, and sometimes because they put the many benefits of going along with pharma interests before their patients - help contribute to iatrogenic disease and death. Not only on mind altering drugs, but statins, painkillers etc. A doctor who does not listen, does not learn. and discredits people that he chooses in his ignorance not to believe, is a disgrace to medicine. There's a lot of it about unfortunately. They forget that they once believed that they should, above all, DO NO HARM.

Did we have the depression / ADHD needs mind altering drugs just like diabetes needs insulin pharma line yet?

I'm not sure, but if it came up or comes up - a diabetic has a scientifically measurable SHORTAGE of insulin. Hence a diabetic needs insulin.

A depressed person, does NOT have a shortage of Prozac or Paxil or Effexor, and a child with ADHD does not have a shortage of Ritalin.




While some may feel better taking prescribed psychotropic drugs (rather like many do when SELF medicating on alcohol which is not much different) this does NOT mean that other people do not have serious adverse effects - which sometimes cost them their lives. There is plenty of scientific evidence out there, but even without that - a doctor who cannot work it out for himself has some serious problems re insight.

Now why did I come here? Bodybuilding. Something that is best done drug free

[fish153]

Then they say rather uneducated things like - I've seen people in difficulty coming off benzos, but not off SSRIs. (Think about it).

Lol. A doctor in this thread said that exact same thing - something to the effect of "benzos cause problems, not SSRIs ... SSRIs only cause problems for extra-sensitive people and I've never seen it so therefore it doesn't happen"! I posted evidence proving otherwise, but was dismissed.



Oh well. It's always nice when doctors tell you, in the midst of discontinuation/withdrawal, that it doesn't exist and is all in your head. That's real great.

[Johnson9]

Lol. A doctor in this thread said that exact same thing! I posted evidence proving otherwise, but was dismissed.



Funnily enough, that was while I myself was experiencing SSRI withdrawal/discontinuation syndrome.

I'm afraid there's just too many bad doctors around - if indeed there IS a doctor here at all. Have you fully recovered? I don't know if you've posted tapering advice here but I'll do so because other people may need it - if its a repeat it won't do any harm

http://ssri-uksupport.com/files/haltingSSRIs.pdf

And some of the tragic results that have happened not only because of pharmaceutical manipulation of evidence but also because their doctors didn't listen when they had drug-induced akathisa or drug-induced psychosis.

http://ssri-uksupport.com/files/homi...edications.pdf

All the best.

[fish153]

Starting at post #61, Dr. P (a real doctor) begins writing:

I read this, nice reference. But hey: it's single cases! 0.003 cases per 1000 prescriptions! Yes, there might be some sensitive people who get this withdrawal effects, but you should admit that this is a SUBSTANTIAL differences to REAL addictive drugs such as alcohol or benzodiazepines, where 990 of 1000 people get withdrawal symptoms.

I posted charts from WHO showing otherwise here:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...6&postcount=65

To which he responded:

Well, this is completely (180°) contrary to my clinical experience! OPIOIDs (Buprenorphine) and Benzodaizepines together cause LESS frequnet withdrawal effects than Paroxetine? Sorry, but this is ridiculuous!

Again, I don not intend to deny that SSRIs or other ADs might cause withdrawal, but how it comes I see patients with Benodiazepine withdrawal and never see patients with Antidepressant withdrawal? How this apparent discrepancy can be explained?

Again, this matches exactely the benzodiazepines but NOT the antidepressants in clinical practice. Single exceptions can occure, of course.

Sorry if some people here feel that the thread might have been hijacked, but I feel that I should contribute to put the things where they belong.

I don't know, I still disagree -- and believe doctors ought to read up more on this subject as it does not help anyone to be suffering from discontinuation syndrome / withdrawal to be told it doesn't exist or is a lie that need to be "put where it belongs".

The links you posted re: tapering advice are some very very good links. Thanks for sharing them!

[xGhostinGx]

Everyone is going to think Im being insensitive, but what a load. You show 26 and claim to have been like this since 5? No possible way it went untreated all these years, and now you are seeking help from a GP? A G freakin P? Plus, you are asking advice on a message board? If this was a big problem, it wouldnt suddenly be an issue. I think you are exaggerating this to generate attention, and its working.

[Abe the Cop]

agreed, but klonopin is usually presribed for more severe cases...but indeed its good stuff, this guy doesn't seem like he needs the klonopin, but thats for him and his doctor/psych to decide, its much stronger than ****** and *****.

Wrong. ***** is the most powerful and potent benzo out there right now. Klonopin has somewhat different properties and is prescribed more so for epileptic patients. Klonopin (clonazepam) has a MUCH longer half life and takes up to two hours to kick in, whereas ***** kicks in as quickly as 15 minutes and has a half life of 5-8 hours. ***** is extremely addictive for this reason. Effects wear quickly and another dose is needed to feel the effects. That's why ***** is prescribed for panic attacks because it has the quickest onset of all the benzos. (I've been prescribed **********, clonazepam and lorazepam...for two years all I read about was benzos. Sick time in my life.)

And what you said in your post about ***** allowing you to be more in control...maybe at low doses. But at higher doses people black out, losing all memory of what they did and often act out of character like a psychotic. I know this because I was prescribed ***** for 2 years for the same condition. I wish I never took a single pill, but that's neither here nor there.

I wouldn't recommend anyone getting on benzos unless panic attacks are truly ruining your life. I would try any other way of dealing with it than going back to *****. I eventually just accepted my condition and learned to "deal with it" in a way. I spent a month in a detox/rehab getting off *****. My tolerance went up quickly and my anxiety got worse so my dose was upped starting at 0.75mg/day up to 6mg/day. I've taken up to 30mg and above in a single sitting. I'm surprised I'm still alive. However, I believe I have a genetic predisposition to addiction. Once again, neither here nor there.

Don't ever take more than you need to and get off ***** as quickly as possible.

[Johnson9]

Editing: This is a reply to Fish.

You're welcome.

Sadly there are estimated to be many thousands of deaths due to adverse effects of SSRIs - far higher than the "doctor" here believes, it certainly isn't an exception.

Many are by suicide - and it isn't the case that it happens because of a drug "energizing" a depressed person as pharma-followers would purport. In a Healy trial of one SSRI on healthy professional volunteers, 10% became suicidal in a period of 2 weeks, which also corroborates with clinical data that has been exposed over time from drug makers.

Unfortunately Lilly, Pfizer and GSK chose to miscode cases of suicidality and homicidality as 'nausea' 'emotional lability' etc. A few weeks ago the MHRA forbid Sweden to release Lilly's clinical data on a failed SNRI - now being pushed as an ADHD drug for children. Strattera.

There are also physiological ADRS with SSRIs (and SNRIs), such as cardiac, stroke and seizure problems. Strattera data that was released showed a lot of cardiac adrs as well as suicidality. Therein lies an additional risk of death and disability when doctors fail to listen to their patients.

Drugs can be helpful to some people, but doctors must start to use some intelligence in realising that people are not metabolically identical. If they don't then not only are they contributing to the loss of life, but they're anyway heading for their own demise. A psychiatrist in the UK is currently on bail accused of manslaughter of a patient. A forensic psychiatrist warns doctors that they can be held negligent.

I take it you have recovered - I've very glad, and count your blessings Many people haven't and there are people, or as pharma followers like to call them "anecdotal reports", all over the internet who are survivors of severe withdrawal left with what appear to be permanent effects given some of these are still having various difficulties a decade post-withdrawal.

Their doctors no doubt are blindly telling others that they haven't seen signs of damage by SSRIs. They get little help throughout withdrawal or years afterward because of those attitudes.

If you 'hijacked the thread' and I've now hijacked it in reply, then I also apologize to the people here who didn't expect this type of converation

[fish153]

Thank you for your reply. I haven't recovered yet (I have a thread titled "tapering off of zoloft" where I updated frequently) ... I am struggling with a very clear case of withdrawal or whatever people want to call it - and for a short amount of time near the very end here, I was seriously considering things I had not considered in a LONG time and it made for a very scary period of time. I'm mostly past that point of the process, but still suffering from increased anxiety, gastrointestinal issues, irritability/anger, dizziness, nausea, and every once in awhile I experience very pronounced tachycardia. That said, I'm still somewhat hopeful that after 10 years on the SSRI, I'll one day be done with the withdrawal as well.

Oh, and the hand tremors have yet to disappear - but here's to hoping for that as well.

I'm grateful that my personal doctor at least admitted / acknowledged that these issues exist in many cases of discontinuing an SSRI ... though she has done little to help me find solutions. Nonetheless, I hope very much that as more time goes by, doctors who don't realize the reality of these issues will start to - if for nothing more than to reassure their patients that it is common and not necessarily a sign that the patient needs to go back on the drug.

[Johnson9]

I'm grateful that my personal doctor at least admitted / acknowledged that these issues exist in many cases of discontinuing an SSRI ... though she has done little to help me find solutions. Nonetheless, I hope very much that as more time goes by, doctors who don't realize the reality of these issues will start to - if for nothing more than to reassure their patients that it is common and not necessarily a sign that the patient needs to go back on the drug.

Your doctor may just need pointing to articles that will help - ie, anger and irritability - if irrational and distressing - sound very like a degree of akathisia. That can be treated but its important to consider doing so episodically rather than regularly (to avoid addiction). Many of the symptoms are NOT understood - ie while the mechanism of serotonin in the gut gives a good implication as to the cause of nausea (and often diarrhea with it), the mechanisms that causes the parasthesia (such as electric shocks) or hallucinations are unknown and so much of it can't be treated. If the anger becomes 'unbearable' then it can put you and other people in a hazardous situation and it needs treatment. Perhaps you should download articles on akathisia and give them to your doctor.

Being on a support site where other people are experiencing the same things can also be helpful. Because its rather hit and miss, tips can be picked up about what people have found to help some symptoms and what they've found to make things worse.

Most of all, the fact that you know what's going on (as far as anyone CAN know) will help keep you on a road to recovery.

I have to go, I'm late.
Take care

James

[siiim0n]

Reading this thread has made me realize how intense anxiety attacks may be. Reading some of the posts made my heart beat a little faster.

Past experience:

Before I am about to make a speech I tend to cough a lot until I am in the spotlight.

Before I am about to take my first shot while at a drinking party, I cough a lot.

Before my first round of paintballing, I cough.

Etc.

When I am doing the activity however, I am perfectly fine. The coughing was not from a cold of some sort, just coughing.

Would these experiences be a less intense case of anxiety attacks?

[tomo]

I have taken paxil, which had some side effects coimg off of 3 months like severe headaches, nasuea, lethargy. However it worked great for me and I was lucky. I also have taken both ****** and ***** while on Paxil. I would say that I never craved the benzos at all, took 5mg ****** as needed and then swiched to .5 ***** as needed. If anything I was more addicted to Paxil because I felt so damn good on paxil that if the house burned down I could give a crap.

[indian23]

***** cant be that dangerous surely?

[memonote]

Any one try lexapro?

[FarEastBeast]

Reading this thread has made me realize how intense anxiety attacks may be. Reading some of the posts made my heart beat a little faster.

Past experience:

Before I am about to make a speech I tend to cough a lot until I am in the spotlight.

Before I am about to take my first shot while at a drinking party, I cough a lot.

Before my first round of paintballing, I cough.

Etc.

When I am doing the activity however, I am perfectly fine. The coughing was not from a cold of some sort, just coughing.

Would these experiences be a less intense case of anxiety attacks?

It's normal to be nervous before the situations you mention. Just coughing because you're nervous is nothing like an anxiety or panic attack.

[sandiegoguy]

regular excercise. drink a little and get yourself into social situations because it'll boost your confidence level and you'll slowly learn there is nothing to be afaid of. try to condition your brain to have a ritual of sorts to overcome the fear. this is what i do for public speaking.

biggest savior for anxiety is excercise, food, and NO stims. caffeine is the devil.

Thats not good advice, you shouldn't tell someone to start drinking alcohol it can possibly lead to more problems down the road.

[nordicnacho]

Lol. A doctor in this thread said that exact same thing - something to the effect of "benzos cause problems, not SSRIs ... SSRIs only cause problems for extra-sensitive people and I've never seen it so therefore it doesn't happen"! I posted evidence proving otherwise, but was dismissed.



Oh well. It's always nice when doctors tell you, in the midst of discontinuation/withdrawal, that it doesn't exist and is all in your head. That's real great.

you have to go to rehab to get off benzo's they misshape your gaba receptors worse then coming off of opiates. trust me i've seen it

http://www.recoveryconnection.org/dr...odiazepine.php