Supplements VS Food

[droppingplates]

I can appreciate the advice being given in this thread. I am over the 35, closer to 40 range and I have execised and tried to eat a balanced, clean diet while doing so, not saying I haven't stumbled and fallen but I admit I have and didn't stay there to wallow in it. That being said I have been having a hard time understanding this no supps mentality that has come about as of late. Not everything will work for everybody, people's bodies respond differently to whatever supps they take. I have tried many a supps in my time, from when EAS was the craze to even now taking some things. But one thing I do know is that they do give you an added benefit. Preach on brother. All my over 35 brethern keep the faith, keep pushing on.

[ljimd]

Not exactly on topic, but i consider shakes as part of my diet, not a supplement.


Am i the only one?

No. You are not the only one.

[pharmamarketer]

Not exactly on topic, but i consider shakes as part of my diet, not a supplement.


Am i the only one?

They are part of mine. I don't always have time to eat a meal. Running to meetings all day and then having to catch up on email. I drink two a day. I use a plant based protein powder. The whey was ripping thru me and causing me to feel bloated. I love the one I am taking now. In total I get 56 g of protein through shakes a day.

[ironwill2008]

... I have been having a hard time understanding this no supps mentality that has come about as of late.....

Based on what I gather from posts in many different forums on this site, I see it as a natural backlash against some of the wild (and unsubstantiated) claims printed in some of the supp ads in the muscle mags. A guy (usually a noob) sees a supp purported to "Increase protein synthesis by 700%!!!" printed alongside a pic of a jacked pro bodybuilder, and more often than not, he'll bite. A month later, with maybe nothing to show for his money than a hole in his wallet, he gets disillusioned, possibly even quitting training altogether.

What he's missing is the need to get his training and basic nutrition squared-away first, and then start doing some searching and reading.

As we (those who've been doing this for a while) all know, some things work, and some don't. The smart move is to put in the time to figure out the difference rather than to just buy everything, or worse, claim that all supps are junk, and throw the baby out with the bathwater. Time spent doing some online research will usually pay big dividends both in money, as well as time and effort, saved.

[bodyhard]

Bodyhard, thank you for posting this up. Some days I , mostly weekends I am just to busy to get around making decent food, so I resort to shakes and some snacks. I was always worried that all my hard work and proper eating during the week is going to waste on weekends having mostly shakes etc. Reading your post gives me hope, that what I am doing might work for me since you are living proof that it worked for you.

As for being able to walk again, can't say how impressed I am in both your ability to overcome obstacles and mend your own body using the mind, ala Bruce Lee when the doc told him he will never walk again.

Once again thank you for posting this.

Side note, your "bold hairstyle" suits you better

You wont lose your hard earn work over the weekend, even if you didn't eat or taken any supps over the weekend. Two days wont hurt you, but if you do that consistently, then it will become an issue. But if you are taking in supps over the weekend you will be fine.

Thanks for the props on the bald head I had to do it though a medical condition called Tinnitus. Otherwise I would still have my hair receding hairline and all

I can appreciate the advice being given in this thread. I am over the 35, closer to 40 range and I have execised and tried to eat a balanced, clean diet while doing so, not saying I haven't stumbled and fallen but I admit I have and didn't stay there to wallow in it. That being said I have been having a hard time understanding this no supps mentality that has come about as of late. Not everything will work for everybody, people's bodies respond differently to whatever supps they take. I have tried many a supps in my time, from when EAS was the craze to even now taking some things. But one thing I do know is that they do give you an added benefit. Preach on brother. All my over 35 brethern keep the faith, keep pushing on.

I see the negativeness on supps as well, which is why I made this thread. But I think all the negativity comes within reason due to all the junk that is out there.

But, people have to understand 1 bad apple doesn't spoil the whole bunch. There is junk out there and there are good quality supps out there as well. Funny thing is the same goes for AS and Prohormones, there is junk out there that is more harmful than the real thing and then of course there is the real stuff.

Just as everything in life, you have to be smart about it.

[Kraken]

I tried eating 3 times a day, I got skinny.

It's interesting that if anyone else on this board would have said this, it would have been met with a barrage of replies saying "You're doing it wrong". Simply put, you under ate. Eating 3 meals a day won't make you "skinny", under eating will.

[bodyhard]

It's interesting that if anyone else on this board would have said this, it would have been met with a barrage of replies saying "You're doing it wrong". Simply put, you under ate. Eating 3 meals a day won't make you "skinny", under eating will.

You are a funny guy man, why is it that you keep trying to tell me that I don't know what I am doing?

Let me ask you this, how do you know I under ate? Did I say how much calories I consumed in those 3 meals? Did I break it down for you?

Dude I have been at this for a loooooooong time I know my body, please take your bu!!sh!t elsewhere to someone who doesn't know their sh!t.

Also since you keep on insisting you are so right, I am now interested on what you look like, body wise. I mean surely since you know so much you have pics or videos not only this AV of yours?

Also here is a shot of me after I added food (8 meals a day) to my supps. Tell me I did something wrong?

[Kraken]

You are a funny guy man, why is it that you keep trying to tell me that I don't know what I am doing?

Let me ask you this, how do you know I under ate? Did I say how much calories I consumed in those 3 meals? Did I break it down for you?

Dude I have been at this for a loooooooong time I know my body, please take your bu!!sh!t elsewhere to someone who doesn't know their sh!t.

Also since you keep on insisting you are so right, I am now interested on what you look like, body wise. I mean surely since you know so much you have pics or videos not only this AV of yours?

Also here is a shot of me after I added food (8 meals a day) to my supps. Tell me I did something wrong?

I am assuming this is why no one challenged your comment.

[CookAndrewB]

It's interesting that if anyone else on this board would have said this, it would have been met with a barrage of replies saying "You're doing it wrong". Simply put, you under ate. Eating 3 meals a day won't make you "skinny", under eating will.

Well, to be honest, if he was getting enough calories in those three meals, then he wouldn't have lost weight. So in some regards, he wasn't doing it right. Now, for people that have a huge caloric requirement, they may have trouble eating enough in three meals in regards to the amount of volume they can pack in. This is especially true if you eat "clean" as most of that stuff isn't calorie dense.

I truthfully eat one big meal a day, at dinner. I have NO problem getting enough calories in to support a 210-215lb body mass, and I can even step that up and move the needle north of 230 if I want. My strength doesn't suffer, I don't have energy swings or crashes... it works for me. I will also say that I have a near competitive eater capacity to put away food when it is time for dinner, and I don't try to get all of my calories from salad, chicken breast and brown rice. How many meals you need to eat is a personal choice, as I see it.

One last thought: I have never viewed protein powder as a supplement. It's food as far as I'm concerned. It's processed, but so is a large number of things most of us eat in a day. Just so happen this process turns protein into powder and not into a tube, or patty, or chicken shaped item. Taking a protein or meal replacement never really struck me as a supplement so much as a different food source.

[bodyhard]

Never mind I just saw your (Krakens) bodyspace, no need to continue this conversation with you.

Preach on to the folks who will believe you.....

[AAOBob]

Supps like whey are simply processed food. I don't see what the big difference would be provided you got all the nutrients you needed. Your body won't know chicken, from soylent green if it contains the right nutrients in a digestible form. The only reason to avoid the all supp diet would be not knowing exactly what you need, and not being able to 100% trust whats in the supplement.

[crupiea]

i thought that houston texans article said its just genetic?

[nvrstopworking]

They are part of mine. I don't always have time to eat a meal. Running to meetings all day and then having to catch up on email. I drink two a day. I use a plant based protein powder. The whey was ripping thru me and causing me to feel bloated. I love the one I am taking now. In total I get 56 g of protein through shakes a day.

This is interesting.... simply because I've never really heard of any (granted my knowledge isn't exactly vast in the world of supps).

Does anyone else have any thoughts/feedback on this kind of protein? Does it taste just as good as whey?

[CookAndrewB]

This is interesting.... simply because I've never really heard of any (granted my knowledge isn't exactly vast in the world of supps).

Does anyone else have any thoughts/feedback on this kind of protein? Does it taste just as good as whey?

I can't speak to taste, but both soy and pea protein products are readily available on the market.

[ironwill2008]

This is interesting.... simply because I've never really heard of any (granted my knowledge isn't exactly vast in the world of supps).

Does anyone else have any thoughts/feedback on this kind of protein? Does it taste just as good as whey?

There's soy (somewhat popular), pea protein powder, and a new entry into the market, hemp protein powder.

I've used soy in the past in limited amounts; taste is on par with any of the better whey powders. There's still some controversy over soy's estrogen-increasing abilities. Some studies say it isn't true, while others show the opposite.


I've never personally tried the other two, and don't really see any reason to (for myself). As far as taste goes, the hemp stuff is reported to taste somewhat bitter, with a sandy consistency that is difficult to mix with water.

If someone is lactose-intolerant (and even the lactose-"free" whey powders can cause digestive problems for some people), any of these might be a good source of supplemental protein.


If you're interested in trying any of these alternative protein sources, I suggest you do some digging through Google, and see what you come up with. As always, impartiality in information sources is a good thing.

[nvrstopworking]

I can't speak to taste, but both soy and pea protein products are readily available on the market.

There's soy (somewhat popular), pea protein powder, and a new entry into the market, hemp protein powder.

I've used soy in the past in limited amounts; taste is on par with any of the better whey powders. There's still some controversy over soy's estrogen-increasing abilities. Some studies say it isn't true, while others show the opposite.


I've never personally tried the other two, and don't really see any reason to (for myself). As far as taste goes, the hemp stuff is reported to taste somewhat bitter, with a sandy consistency that is difficult to mix with water.

If someone is lactose-intolerant (and even the lactose-"free" whey powders can cause digestive problems for some people), any of these might be a good source of supplemental protein.


If you're interested in trying any of these alternative protein sources, I suggest you do some digging through Google, and see what you come up with. As always, impartiality in information sources is a good thing.

Interesting.... thanks for the info.

[bodyhard]

Dear Mr. Bodyhard,

First of all, I don't care what you do. Basic calorie counting dictates whether you add or lose weight. I'm not saying anything crazy here. If you lost weight, you didn't get enough calories in. But feel free to "break it down" for me and explain how you got in enough calories but still lost weight. You know your body, and clearly your body is capable of violating basic thermodynamics. The point wasn't whether you did anything right or wrong, frankly I don't care. I was addressing a different member about his post. If you choose to get your undies in a bunch about it, so be it.

By the way, I actually have plenty of videos. Feel free to rummage through them, then tell me how I'm a joke. I'm sure that is what you are gunning for, right? You want to compare penis size and prove you are awesome? Cool, go for it. I find it pointless, but I get that you might need to do this for your own personal reasons.

Who are you?

[Medtreker]

I guess what we're really talking about here is , primarily, do protein supps qualifying as food. I like to think they do, because that's really how I use them. Every morning my breakfast consists of protein shake, mixed with at least oats, and often with other food sources such as fruit. But it's the protein powder that fills out the protein portion of the meal, the rest is complex carb. I also will often have a meal consisting of a VPX Zero Impact bar. I like to think of that bar as food, not supplement.

So I appreciate the notion of protein supps being food. There's been a ton of threads on this topic too, and they don't often go this way.

[litljay]

Didn't Fitty run an experiment (or something) about getting the majority of his protein through shakes???

I'll have to see if I can find the thread.

[induced_drag]

Just for reference.....I get about 1/2 my protein levels from whey or blends (casein/albumin...etc).

Currently eating 275g/day.

Other half comes from two 8 ounce servings of meat (either chicken or lean beef) and 4-5 cups of milk.


Just throwing it out there....dont shoot me

[Bo_Flecks]

Didn't Fitty run an experiment (or something) about getting the majority of his protein through shakes???

I am pretty sure it was Kimsquit.

[ArchAngel'73]

I am pretty sure it was Kimsquit.

I am certain of it

[Medtreker]

Perhaps the notion of supps somehow NOT qualifing as food stems from the attempt to seperate natural bodybuilder from enhanced bodybuilder.

[ironwill2008]

.... primarily, do protein supps qualifying as food.

I guess it depends on whom you ask. They're just another form of food as far as I'm concerned.


One more thing to keep in mind as far as protein supps go is that protein is all you get from them. So while an excellent amino acid profile is provided, all the other good stuff you'd get from, say, eating a steak, or a piece of grilled salmon, isn't present, so you'll need to make sure you're getting adequate fats and micros elsewhere.

[litljay]

I am pretty sure it was Kimsquit.

I am certain of it

No wonder I couldn't find it under Fitty

Thanks guys. I'll look for that one when I get a chance.

**Edit - Found it: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...msquit+Protein

[induced_drag]

I guess it depends on whom you ask. They're just another form of food as far as I'm concerned.


One more thing to keep in mind as far as protein supps go is that protein is all you get from them. So while an excellent amino acid profile is provided, all the other good stuff you'd get from, say, eating a steak, or a piece of grilled salmon, isn't present, so you'll need to make sure you're getting adequate fats and micros elsewhere.

I always like IW's logic. With that said, I try to get the most benefit I can from whey and other proteins. You can do this by ensuring you are buying cold processed, micro filtered, NOT ion-exchanged. Ion-exchanged strips just about everything away except the protein. Lots of beneficial micro nutrients in whey. That is why cheap concentrates are better (health wise) then costlier Isolates (done with ion-exchange). If you want to go Isolate....look for cold processed, micro filtered.

There is my nugget for the day

[KonichiJ]

I guess it depends on whom you ask. They're just another form of food as far as I'm concerned.


One more thing to keep in mind as far as protein supps go is that protein is all you get from them. So while an excellent amino acid profile is provided, all the other good stuff you'd get from, say, eating a steak, or a piece of grilled salmon, isn't present, so you'll need to make sure you're getting adequate fats and micros elsewhere.

I wish there were more medical studies and evidence on protein supplements and protein absorption. IMO, there is no substitute for food...only food substitute...or supplement.

Here's some data from: webmd.com/diet/protein-shakes

Some research shows other benefits as well. For example, a study of 130 U.S. Marines looked at intense exercisers who supplemented their diet with 10 g of protein, 8 g of carbohydrates, and 3 g of fat. They had fewer infections, less heat exhaustion, and less muscle soreness. Some protein shakes may help with weight management, as well. But more research is needed to confirm this.

[bodyhard]

I am glad I got this stupid ass notion that all you need is food and no supps out in the open and educated people on the subject.

Also, for the record, I am not recommending that people NOT eat in place of supps, please do not do this as it will be counterproductive to your goals, but at the same time DO NOT only rely on food if you want to acquire a built that is noticeable by all. Unless you are doing some form of HRT or AS it just isn't going to happen.

Big ups from the Boggie down.

As always keep sh!t real, be true to yourself, and always always question something if it doesn't sound legit.

[Bev66]

Whey is food to me, it's helped me meet my protein goals and I have the extra weight to prove it.

Veggie based protein supps should be sampled to find the right ones.
Vega mixed as a smoothie is great, on it's own not so great because of the grit.

Soy was ok, Pea was better but I went for whey isolate at the end of the day.
If you want a great veggie based protein treat get the Vega recovery bar in chocolate coconut!

[ThatGalZoey]

Wow. That's very impressive. I'm just really not keen to going all supplements though. I kinda like cooking and eating actual food.
I really like the feeling of fullness when I eat real food. However, this may be just me. It's pretty obvious it does work for you. I think it also helps that you really don't eat much prior to bulking up.