Xtend Leucine test

[JP83]

what about the old xtend formula?

Good question.

I'm glad i'm about done with my old Xtend. Hearing how much artifical coloring and sweetner was used to make the product didn't sit well with me. I drank the stuff for years not knowing that. I'm glad the new forumla has improved on all aspects.

[Swedeheart]

Good question.

I'm glad i'm about done with my old Xtend. Hearing how much artifical coloring and sweetner was used to make the product didn't sit well with me. I drank the stuff for years not knowing that. I'm glad the new forumla has improved on all aspects.

Glad you are enjoying it man.

I feel the same way. I just had some old blue razz then went right into the new blue razz. Unbelievable how diff the taste is and just how sweet the old really was. You are very right that in all ways the new Xtend is much better.

[Mike McCandless]

I constantly test products from other companies. Have for a long period of time. My opinions on these boards aren't pulled from thin air. I'm confident that in some cases, I have done more testing on other people's products then they have done on their own. Often times, companies have ZERO intention of doing a consumer wrong. I truly believe that. However, if you don't implement proper testing methods post production, you're going off the word of your manufacture. As an example, HDT years ago licensed 1-AD from ErgoPharm. At the time, I owned labelclaimstesting.com. Over 3 batches, it came in at 80mg/70/55mg per capsule. The company had NO CLUE. At the time, 1-AD was 3,000 a kilo. On a 55mg cap, it was shorted 45mg. Do the math: 45mg x 60 caps = 2.7g. 2.7g x 3.00g = 8.10 PER BOTTLE. That manufacture was selling the excess off. In the end, HDT sued them and won I believe.

This happens way more often than you'd think. The companies never know and the manufactures make out like crazy. QC is not something you can implement overnight. Scivation has busted ass the past year implementing the new regulations. It's a continual process. A company can't go from being non compliant to compliant overnight. I'd say on average it is an 18 month integration. Quality ain't cheap.

[TMac26]

I lost it.

The things you can't say when you have a rep spot. Glad you aren't with a company Starkk haha.

LOL WUT?

you quoted Illa.

[justfive]

Yay for label claims being right.

Good to hear, thanks for sharing that Mike

can I have a sample of powerca... wait.... wut? sad

[kr1kit]

Yay for label claims being right.



can I have a sample of powerca... wait.... wut? sad

We should be so proud of a company isn't actually lying to our faces?


:rollseyes:

[justfive]

We should be so proud of a company isn't actually lying to our faces?


:rollseyes:

Its kind of like being happy you didnt get herpes after banging the same hooker that you know has AIDS, week after week, condomless

[DASBUNKER]

interdasting.. PM me the results for other brands Mac, My inbox is ready.

Its kind of like being happy you didnt get herpes after banging the same hooker that you know has AIDS, week after week, condomless

thats offensive for clean prostitutes.. another analogy would be being happy for "good" costumer service.. when in reality is just what it should be.. thing is most of them are pretty bad, so the few that do their job right are glorified.

[Daycrawler]

LOL WUT?

you quoted Illa.

F'cking mobile app.

[Daycrawler]

I constantly test products from other companies. Have for a long period of time. My opinions on these boards aren't pulled from thin air. I'm confident that in some cases, I have done more testing on other people's products then they have done on their own. Often times, companies have ZERO intention of doing a consumer wrong. I truly believe that. However, if you don't implement proper testing methods post production, you're going off the word of your manufacture. As an example, HDT years ago licensed 1-AD from ErgoPharm. At the time, I owned labelclaimstesting.com. Over 3 batches, it came in at 80mg/70/55mg per capsule. The company had NO CLUE. At the time, 1-AD was 3,000 a kilo. On a 55mg cap, it was shorted 45mg. Do the math: 45mg x 60 caps = 2.7g. 2.7g x 3.00g = 8.10 PER BOTTLE. That manufacture was selling the excess off. In the end, HDT sued them and won I believe.

This happens way more often than you'd think. The companies never know and the manufactures make out like crazy. QC is not something you can implement overnight. Scivation has busted ass the past year implementing the new regulations. It's a continual process. A company can't go from being non compliant to compliant overnight. I'd say on average it is an 18 month integration. Quality ain't cheap.

Hmm interesting. Similar to a spiked, I mean contaminated 7KE Spray from Taurus Nutrition...

[Mr.Cooper69]

Interesting. For the price, thats crazy. Did you send samples of the 1kg tub for $30 or their normal one?

Based on past QC, I bet I could take a guesd at which products are skimming...

SNS Leucine powder is also third-party tested and can also be found for $30 per kg.

[justfive]

thats offensive for clean prostitutes.. another analogy would be being happy for "good" costumer service.. when in reality is just what it should be.. thing is most of them are pretty bad, so the few that do their job right are glorified.

I thinka better analogy would be praising supplement companies for ethically marketing their products and meeting label claims, when in reality it should be the damn standard.














oh wait....

[DASBUNKER]

I thinka better analogy would be praising supplement companies for ethically marketing their products and meeting label claims, when in reality it should be the damn standaroh wait....

lol you started with the analogies.. but agreed, at least mac is bothering to post proof of this on the forums not many companies do that, specially those with best sellers which couldnt care less about what some commoners in a forum think when their product still sells that much

[RonPaul2012Win]

Mike I that you're not going to name specific companies, but could you give us a % of companies failing label claims? Just trying to understand how big of a problem this is industry wide.

[EricTheRed]

HPLC is the typical go-to, but yes it's quite pricey. I had hoped the Kjeldahl was gone completely from the US; after the scandal surrounding methods to bypass it, I figured it would go by the wayside. I do believe there are alternative tests for peptide fractions in finished products, but I'm not sure the name off the top of my head.

Ah well, in a perfect world..

Kjeldahl seems to still be widely accepted validated test that many companies allow on there CoA's. But as Mike stated quality isnt cheap. The company i work for wants a HPLC-MS machine which i last heard was about 400K starting....

[justfive]

lol you started with the analogies.. but agreed, at least mac is bothering to post proof of this on the forums not many companies do that, specially those with best sellers which couldnt care less about what some commoners in a forum think when their product still sells that much

yeah I know

People bash MC for being an a$$. Call me homo... but I like it. I gradually came to the realization that there is really very little which keeps supplement companies in check. Experience should have taught us that trust is not enough.

[DASBUNKER]

yeah I know

People bash MC for being an a$$. Call me homo... but I like it. I gradually came to the realization that there is really very little which keeps supplement companies in check. Experience should have taught us that trust is not enough.

i just dont take him srsly on this forum which many people do... he brings the lulz+supp drama backed up with facts and doesnt affect what i think of scivation.

[Mike McCandless]

I know I piss people off at times. I do overreact to things at times. It's only because I'm passionate about it. I promise you, I will make plenty of mistakes. Made plenty of them in the past. I just try to learn, apply and do better the next time. I try to be accessible to people as much as I can. Right now I'm going through a lot and don't have as much time as I wish. We are understaffed given our size, all the part of crazy growth. Makes things stressful. You can't imagine how annoying it is to have 2-3 products finalized but can't release because we're doing things properly on stability and other forms of QC. Nobody realized that we had new xtend at the arnold, but didn't release till July. That's because we had to do stability testing so we could set our expiration date. MANY companies simply slap two years on it and go. I have 3 finalized formula's RIGHT NOW, but can't release for at least 180 days in some cases as we wait for the results. You can't do that type of testing until a product is done. Meanwhile, I'm watching companies release stuff after finding out about it 2 weeks earlier. Yeah, not compliant lol. Just sucks to compete against companies that refuse to follow rules. Then come on here and have their reps bash me or attack my companies. This is why the FDA is up our industries ass.

[Mike McCandless]

I agree mang. Mike always comes here and dickslaps people with science. I approve.

Nah, I'm NOT the science guy. There are people WAY ahead of me in that area. I've just been around this industry for 12 years. I've been on all sides: Consumer, internet retailer and supplement company owner. A lot of experience comes with that. I have a great staff now. I've learned more from Dr Lockwood in the past year, than the previous 11. I appreciate the compliment.

[TMac26]

I wish Mike would post more.

[SurelyFunky]

Oh sweet science, take me home!

Not buying anymore though due to no HLPC peak and disclosure of column type.

I wanted to geek out with this information as well. You can get the info - it is just a different report type requested (at an additional cost). Here's there sample of an amino acid report, with all the extra information: https://chromadex.com/wpresources/Up...mino_Acids.pdf

Presumably, the method is the same.

[Daycrawler]

I wish Mike would post more.

Does make the forum more spicey.

[RippedFamMan]

Mike, I assume Solution 5 didn't go through the stability testing?

[Mike McCandless]

Mike, I assume Solution 5 didn't go through the stability testing?

Solution 5 was a very random combo of issues. The EFA's and enzyme's didn't get along. Then the flavoring had too much moisture in it. Things that a previous formulator we had was not knowledgeable on. That's why complete whey, the S5 replacement, is sitting in a chamber right now. Like I said, we WILL make mistakes, but we'll learn from them. If we made/used all the same ingredients as everyone else, wouldn't be a problem. We're just doing some things others haven't done. Such as our Mass Gainer. Nobody has used the carb source we are. Working through the stability on that now.

[reverse79]

what about the old xtend formula?

mike, can we get an answer for this?

Im sure the old formula is selling in packs with current markdowns all over the web

[DASBUNKER]

why is the new orange the only one flavor with coloring stuff floating around?

[kr1kit]

why is the new orange the only one flavor with coloring stuff floating around?

^^ This, it made me return my tub of orange to bb.com

No matter how hard I mixed it, the entire inside of my shaker cup was lined with a thick orange gunk.. When I would take a swig I'd get 50% gunk and 50% liquid, made me a sadpanda. Every other flavor of Xtend has been great to me though, love me some Green Apple.

[Mike McCandless]

why is the new orange the only one flavor with coloring stuff floating around?

Actually first I've heard of this. I'll play with some of it in the office tomorrow. Sometimes the instantizing process of the bcaa's still leaves some that won't go into full solution. Email me a lot number: Mike@scivation.com so I can pull a sample from the same lot. I actually drink orange everyday. However it is mixed in with other items so I've never noticed. I have it every AM and PW. I'm willing to bet it is leucine moreso than flavoring.

[Mike McCandless]

mike, can we get an answer for this?

Im sure the old formula is selling in packs with current markdowns all over the web

There is nothing wrong with the old formula. We're no longer making it obviously, but you can buy it in full confidence. The major difference in old vs new is instantized bcaa's, bonded CM, electrolytes and change of flavor. I know one site is running a great deal on our old stuff, which I fully expect to disappear within a week or so. After that, most sites will just leave what they have at old pricing.

[BHendrix]

sweet sweet xtend.