Question about training a beginner

[Paul_Rockey]

Say I get a new client who has little to no experience in the gym. Typically, they will meet with me twice per week for a half hour. With some, I'm lucky to get three times per week for an hour.

In my opinion, I find it best to start them with a routine that focuses on strength. For instance, if I see them twice a week, I will have them do 5 sets of 5 reps on Bench press, Squat (or Goblet Squat), and Bent-over Row one day, and then Deadlift, Military Press, and Assisted Pullups (or Pulldown) on the second day. I tell them to avoid excessive cardio, for it might compromise their strength gains for the cycle.

If I see them three times per week, I will run them through Bill Starr's 5x5 program, seen here: http://www.eclipsegym.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=57

After about 1 to 2 months of that basic strength training, I will maintain their strength with Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 rep scheme, still using the same basic exercises, twice per week. Right after the heavy lifting, I'll take them through a 2-4 rounds of a circuit that consists of a variety of exericses with higher reps, including Burpees, plyometrics, plate pushing, pushups, etc, which take about 2 minutes per round. Pretty similar to the information described here: http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com...endurance.html So, we are still lifting heavy during the sessions, but in much lowered volume. This way, we can have to energy to perform more cardio-based activites after, and during other days of the week.

My reasoning behind focusing on the heavy lifting so much at first (even if the person is trying to lose weight), is that they typically have no strength or ability to perform the faster paced workouts in the circuit training.

I've seen it happen before, where I have a client who does not want to lift heavy, for fear that they will "bulk up." So, I say "okay", and just have them do high-reps on the machines, or directly go to the circuit training. With the former, they never see significant results. And with the latter, they simply burn out after a couple weeks.

However, if they build a solid base of strength at first (which prevent injury, improve their posture, increase their metabolism, and give them better balance and ability to perform exercises properly), they have a much easier time losing weight when we go into the higher-intensity circuit-style workouts that involve higher reps and shorter rest.

MY QUESTION to you all is: Is any of this wrong, or less than ideal for the average gym client? I'm talking about the run-of-the-mill, 25-50 year-olds who want to "tone-up" and lose 15-30 pounds, usually female, and have very little experience in the gym.

My supervisors all tell me I am wrong and that heavy lifting is not the way go, and to go for higher reps with lower weight. They also tell me to use more variety in my exercises, saying that bench, squats, and deadlifts aren't everything. BUT THEY ARE!, I say. Tell me what you guys think.

[foodandfitness]

Its fine to have a standard approach as long as you can modify it to the needs and preferences of your clients.

I start my clients off with 30 min x2 per week. I focus on bench press, lat pull down, and deadlift and throw in some auxillary exercises and hit the major muscle groups x2 per week.

Really, anything works for a beginner. Just make sure it is fun and effective. Doesn't have to be the most efficient plan, just effective.

[KyleAaron]

Bench, squats and deadlifts aren't everything.

BUT everyone needs to be able to do a deep knee-bend, pick something heavy up off the ground and put something heavy overhead. And everyone needs to know the reasons for what they're doing.

Think of movements rather than exercises. I lay out my thinking here. When you think of movements rather than exercises or muscles, a lot of possibilities open up for you. A deep knee-bend could be a barbell front squat, barbell back squat, barbell overhead squat, machine leg press, machine single leg press, dumbbell front squat, single dumbbell sumo squat, bodyweight squat, bodyweight split squat, etc etc - thousands of options. Same goes for pushing and pulling exercises.

Remember the principle of progressive resistance training. They simply have to do more than they did before. You've got a beginner - they were doing nothing, this is something, it's more than they did before, so their bodies will adapt. Whether for a pressing exercise they do nothing but pushups, nothing but bench press, nothing but overhead press, nothing but machine press, or whether they do pushups in one session and bench press in another, this is not terribly important. It's more than they did before, their bodies will adapt.

Obviously you have to have some consistency in exercises so that not only will they have progress but they'll see it - "I did 6 pushups last time, and 7 today, yay me" - but no need to make every session exactly the same exercises, sets and reps. If you have 4 exercises for each of legs, push and pull, you'll have 4x4x4 = 64 different possible workouts, and at two sessions a week will generally do each exercise at least once every 2 weeks.

Communicate with them. Explain to the clients that you're training movements not muscles, that having stronger legs and back makes non-medical back pain go away and makes it easier to get off the couch. The more athletic-minded ones, talk about how it'll improve their vertical jump or whatever. "Strength is the cup, everything else you do is what goes in the cup - if you only have a thimble..."

[Paul_Rockey]

Bench, squats and deadlifts aren't everything.

BUT everyone needs to be able to do a deep knee-bend, pick something heavy up off the ground and put something heavy overhead. And everyone needs to know the reasons for what they're doing.

Think of movements rather than exercises. I lay out my thinking here. When you think of movements rather than exercises or muscles, a lot of possibilities open up for you. A deep knee-bend could be a barbell front squat, barbell back squat, barbell overhead squat, machine leg press, machine single leg press, dumbbell front squat, single dumbbell sumo squat, bodyweight squat, bodyweight split squat, etc etc - thousands of options. Same goes for pushing and pulling exercises.

Remember the principle of progressive resistance training. They simply have to do more than they did before. You've got a beginner - they were doing nothing, this is something, it's more than they did before, so their bodies will adapt. Whether for a pressing exercise they do nothing but pushups, nothing but bench press, nothing but overhead press, nothing but machine press, or whether they do pushups in one session and bench press in another, this is not terribly important. It's more than they did before, their bodies will adapt.

Obviously you have to have some consistency in exercises so that not only will they have progress but they'll see it - "I did 6 pushups last time, and 7 today, yay me" - but no need to make every session exactly the same exercises, sets and reps. If you have 4 exercises for each of legs, push and pull, you'll have 4x4x4 = 64 different possible workouts, and at two sessions a week will generally do each exercise at least once every 2 weeks.

Communicate with them. Explain to the clients that you're training movements not muscles, that having stronger legs and back makes non-medical back pain go away and makes it easier to get off the couch. The more athletic-minded ones, talk about how it'll improve their vertical jump or whatever. "Strength is the cup, everything else you do is what goes in the cup - if you only have a thimble..."

Good points.

Okay, so we all agree why the exercises I focus on are important.

But do you guys agree with my focus on strength first, and do more cardio/circuit-focused training later? Most of the female clients I see can barely bench press 40 pounds, and cannot do a full squat to save their life! How on earth are they supposed to do the faster paced workouts and other exercises that my bosses claim they need to do? Nothing is going to benefit them more at first than a good session of goblet squats (if they can't do regular ones) and deadlifts, if you ask me. And at HEAVY weight (meaning, 3-5 sets of 3-6 reps with 80-85% of their 1RM.)

[Icicle]

I wholeheartedly believe in your methodology and I'd keep doing what I've been doing if I were you. If you cannot get the basic barbell movements down, you should not be engaging in any kind of circuit training involving weights. How have your results been in the past? If they were good, keep doing what you're doing. Your supervisors just have different ideologies and that's okay.

[KyleAaron]

Quit quoting the whole damned post, it's annoying. Those you annoy end up not responding to you on forums. Just quote the relevant bits, like this:-

But do you guys agree with my focus on strength first, and do more cardio/circuit-focused training later?

You can do both. When they're a deconditioned beginner, whatever you do will improve all aspects of fitness. You can superset cardio work with strength work.

For example, here is a workout using 4-20kg kettlebells and a basketball stadium.

4kg (9lb) KB swings x12 each side
run - at a sane pace, not a sprint
KB rows x12
run
KB squats x12
run
KB presses x12
run

Obviously a weight which is challenging for presses will be easy for legs - but legs are getting more reps, so that's okay.

Anyway, those four exercises with runs after each are one set. Allowing 5'00" to demonstrate exercises, and 5'00" for cooldown and stretch, we get 20'00" of serious work. Very deconditioned people might manage only 2 sets in 20'00", most people can manage 3, some fitter or more determined ones 4. It's easy to progress the workout by increasing the weight of the kettlebells or length of the run.

I use 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20kg kettlebells. Even smaller deconditioned people can handle 4kg, the conditioned and/or larger people 8kg. When you get 12 or 16kg KB they may have to do two-handed swings as the thing becomes unwieldy, and certainly with 20kg KB. Each individual will find the presses top out fairly quickly, sometimes the reps for presses won't be 12, start them at 4 and add one each session. Let them do push presses to get the reps out if necessary.

I use my centre's basketball stadium. The short side is 18m, the long side 28m. Everyone goes a bit short so I call it 15 and 25m, which makes it basically 30m for the diagonal. So the short side run and back is 30m, the long side 50m, and the diagonal 60m. A lap is 80m. If they run the short side between each of four sets that's 120m, long 200m, diagonal 240m, and laps 320m. 2-4 sets in a session means 240-1,540m run in half an hour in between lifting weights. Around 1,000m is typical. You can add in some laps as warmup or cooldown.

Obviously you can have lighter sets to warm up, with lighter weights and shorter runs, or start hard and ease off as they get tired, whatever you like - I wouldn't use the same weight and run lengths for all 2-4 sets.

Builds both strength and cardio. A 48kg middle-aged woman with low-grade MS using the 8kg KB and stadium laps for this circuit is doing barbell squats of 30kg 3x5; she can press the 12kg overhead for a rep or two. An 80kg young man using the 16kg KB and stadium laps in his last session followed it up with barbell squats of 55kg 1x20 and 57.5kg 1x20.

You could do the same sort of thing with dumbbells, bodyweight work, sandbags or whatever. Just use your imagination. There's more to training people than barbell squat, bench press and deadlift. What matters is the movements being performed correctly, and performed correctly with progressive loading. What exactly provides that resistance isn't a big issue for beginners.

[Paul_Rockey]

How have your results been in the past? If they were good, keep doing what you're doing. Your supervisors just have different ideologies and that's okay.

All my clients in the last couple years have gotten EXCELLENT results. Almost all of them I put through 5x5 tell me they've gotten better results than any other trainer they've ever had. And others that I have done pad work with say that's the best workout ever. Furthermore, the ones who I put through circuit training (that were ready for it), said it was the most intense they've ever done. Nothing but great reviews...from the few clients my manager trusts me with. I win over the clients once they trust me, but I can't seem to win over my manager.

[KyleAaron]

If all your clients have got excellent results, if the workouts they did were the most enjoyable ever, I would ask you why you need our advice, but more importantly, why you only have, what was it, 6 clients, and why you are you not able to make a living just from training people?

Results count.

[Rit]

To some degree you're right but on most aspects you're wrong. First of, if I paid a trainer and I found out they're running me through some cookie-cutter program I would be pissed. I'm sorry, but if you do this with all your clients, you're a pathetic trainer. If you don't know the basic exercise progressions, you REALLY REALLY need to learn them first yourself. Based on your physical assessment of them (I hope you did this) you should be able to place them at a level they can handle. Your end goal is to get them where you want to start them. Who knows, they may be at that level already on some exercises, just not all.

For someone that has little/no experience to fitness, you want to expose them to different parts of the club to see what exercises work for them. Not to mention, keep in mind, that they're going to try to do the exercises that you tell them to do, and the exercises you selected are too advanced for them. They don't have the coordination, form, and stability to do these exercises.

IF they are female, you probably do NOT want to do all free weight exercises cause of intimidation from the males that usually work in this area. Keep in mind, they are not bodybuilders so don't train them like one! Keep them at about 2-3 sets of 12-15 reps going for momentary muscle failure. Teach them about good form, breathing, and control of the weights. Once they can do that, then go for 2-3 sets of 10-12 reps, etc... and progress them to what level they want to be at.

What I like to do with beginner clients is get them to do the most basic compound exercises during the assessment to check for strength/ROM 'problem areas' (cause static assessment is one thing, dynamic is another). The exercises usually SB wall squats, lunges, push-ups, assisted pull-ups, etc...

There's so much more I could cover, but you have alot of revamping to do.

[shredorded]

Personally I make sure my clients can do all the basic movements properly with light/body weight with awesome form. If someone can't squat properly with body weight, the last thing I want to do is make them squat with a load. After that I'll add weight to solidify the movement pattern and start really building muscle. The reps/sets really depend on the individuals goals and response to exercise stimulus.

[popupwindow]

Try to make a compromise rather than using a block periodisation approach. Say if you see them twice a week do Press 3 x 5 and Deadlift 3 x 5 followed by a short circuit one day, then maybe Squat 3 x 5 and Chinup 3 x max reps the other day followed by a short circuit. If you see them 3x/week maybe do Squat 5 x 5 + circuit the first day, Press 5 X 5 + cicruit the 2nd day, then Deadlift 5 x 5 + circuit the 3rd day. This way they do some of what's effective, and some of what they want.