Who Were The Most Evil Atheists That Ever Lived? (Srs)

[Scoundrel]

You, like bird, are quoting the wrong person. I'm arguing against that assertion.

I also believe you don't know much about Mao, but are parroting some agenda you've heard.

But that's just my subjective belief.

parroting some agenda i heard huh? lolwut...u got me, an agenda against mao.


or maybe...


maybe im just not a lazy monkey and actually researched this before.






















































i take that back. a monkey could do your job...better.

[hooked4life]

parroting some agenda i heard huh? lolwut...u got me, an agenda against mao.


or maybe...


maybe im just not a lazy monkey and actually researched this before.

What do you know about Mao/Maoist China?

I have a masters in history, with a focus on China. I've done primary research in the Peking Uni archives (aka the old newspapers, photos, books, etc from that period, in Chinese) - wrote a 150 paper published online on the PLA in the Maoist era. I've conducted first-hand interviews with past and present members of the PLA, including one alpha old dude form the Korean war.

I'm currently trying to publish a law review article on Chinese e-law as well.

You?

[Melkor]

What do you know about Mao/Maoist China?

I have a masters in history, with a focus on China. I've done primary research in the Peking Uni archives (aka the old newspapers, photos, books, etc from that period, in Chinese) - wrote a 150 paper published online on the PLA in the Maoist era. I've conducted first-hand interviews with past and present members of the PLA, including one alpha old dude form the Korean war.

I'm currently trying to publish a law review article on Chinese e-law as well.

You?

I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night?

[hooked4life]

I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night?

I don't get it

[Scoundrel]

What do you know about Mao/Maoist China?

I have a masters in history, with a focus on China. I've done primary research in the Peking Uni archives (aka the old newspapers, photos, books, etc from that period, in Chinese) - wrote a 150 paper published online on the PLA in the Maoist era. I've conducted first-hand interviews with past and present members of the PLA, including one alpha old dude form the Korean war.

I'm currently trying to publish a law review article on Chinese e-law as well.

You?

ya...i believe you. so you knew about his body count?

[Scoundrel]

I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night?

lol, i was seriously gonna say that.



in anycase, a monkey could still do his job...better

[hooked4life]

ya...i believe you. so you knew about his body count?

What do you mean?

Civil war?

Red Guards?

Korean war?

Starvation?

Edit: humor is lost online, if you're saying you don't believe me, that's fine. But I'm telling the truth.

[Melkor]

What do you mean?

Civil war?

Red Guards?

Korean war?

Starvation?

Hooked, what number would you estimate that Zedong and his party under his control are responsible for killing? I'm just curious to see the difference between what's out there and what you're thinking it might be based on what you've read/seen.

[Scoundrel]

What do you mean?

Civil war?

Red Guards?

Korean war?

Starvation?

Edit: humor is lost online, if you're saying you don't believe me, that's fine. But I'm telling the truth.

lol, im just trollin(ish). i actually do beleive you, but i didnt think u knew anything at all about him. idk, do you hold him accountable for the famines cause by the great leap forward? but ya, i was kinda trolling and trying to push buttons lol.

[hooked4life]

Hooked, what number would you estimate that Zedong and his party under his control are responsible for killing? I'm just curious to see the difference between what's out there and what you're thinking it might be based on what you've read/seen.

It's just complicated. Do you mean Mao and people under his direct control? Because nobody will know, but that's probably a pretty low number.

Unless of course you mean the army in the civil war/WWII/Korean/Vietnam war, because that's a higher number.

Do you mean red guards and a counter revolutionary movement that he started, but very quickly lost control over?

Are yo including starvation?

What about people sent to the countryside to work who later died somehow?

In the end these numbers are pretty much unknown, you also have to remember that the estimates were coming from Taiwanese in the 1950-60s and the US making best guesses. I've seriously read some of these documents, and they are good, but slanted.

Again, I'm not saying he was a saint, just that I cringe when a "100 million" number gets thrown out. Even 40 ALL told is almost doubtlessly too high.

[hooked4life]

lol, im just trollin(ish). i actually do beleive you, but i didnt think u knew anything at all about him. idk, do you hold him accountable for the famines cause by the great leap forward? but ya, i was kinda trolling and trying to push buttons lol.

It's all good. And yes, and no. The famines were ultimately Mao's fault but it's really complicated. For one thing the country got so enthralled into the movement that local villages would literally lie about how much grain they produced, people under Mao would lie to him too. Then they were shipping tons of grain off to Stalin (a REALLY bad man) causing more famine.

Mao fcked it up good, but you have to remember that without Mao there probably would have been mas famine anyway (there already was during the war years). I mean seriously, China had been in a state of endemic warfare for like 50 years by Mao's time. Japan did -awful- things to the country as well.

[Melkor]

It's just complicated. Do you mean Mao and people under his direct control? Because nobody will know, but that's probably a pretty low number.

Unless of course you mean the army in the civil war/WWII/Korean/Vietnam war, because that's a higher number.

Do you mean red guards and a counter revolutionary movement that he started, but very quickly lost control over?

Are yo including starvation?

What about people sent to the countryside to work who later died somehow?

In the end these numbers are pretty much unknown, you also have to remember that the estimates were coming from Taiwanese in the 1950-60s and the US making best guesses. I've seriously read some of these documents, and they are good, but slanted.

Again, I'm not saying he was a saint, just that I cringe when a "100 million" number gets thrown out. Even 40 ALL told is almost doubtlessly too high.

Yeah, that makes sense. There are a lot of variables to think about. I think the numbers I've seen that are considered "conservative" are between 30-50 million, and most of them include starvation deaths etc. It's still a mindboggling number of people, any way you look at it I guess.

[hooked4life]

It's still a mindboggling number of people, any way you look at it I guess.

No doubt. Though, something else of interest, is that people never felt that number. During the era people had no idea how many died and today the number is sort of suppressed. The population was booming during this period as well, so that made it even harder for people to understand the breadth of the tragedy.

[Scoundrel]

Yeah, that makes sense. There are a lot of variables to think about. I think the numbers I've seen that are considered "conservative" are between 30-50 million, and most of them include starvation deaths etc. It's still a mindboggling number of people, any way you look at it I guess.

The estimates I always came across were in the 15-60 mil. 15 is safe to say IMO, and it still is mindboggling.

[Scoundrel]

It's all good. And yes, and no. The famines were ultimately Mao's fault but it's really complicated. For one thing the country got so enthralled into the movement that local villages would literally lie about how much grain they produced, people under Mao would lie to him too. Then they were shipping tons of grain off to Stalin (a REALLY bad man) causing more famine.

Mao fcked it up good, but you have to remember that without Mao there jprobably would have been mas famine anyway (there already was during the war years). I mean seriously, China had been in a state of endemic warfare for like 50 years by Mao's time. Japan did -awful- things to the country as well.

Would you say he just sped up the process,and got numbers quickly that would have eventually come?

[hooked4life]

Would you say he just sped up the process,and got numbers quickly that would have eventually come?

No, I think the Mao cult he created was the causation of of a lot of. However, I also think a lot would have happened anyway, and in a lot of ways Mao did an amazing job getting the country back and running. Though it was often two steps forwards, one step back (like the "backyard furnaces").

I think they made a religion out of the ideals of the nation, and when reality wouldn't allow for the expectations really stupid things were done to make it seem like they hadn't failed.

[Dave22reborn]

That 50 million number is very much wrong, but it's not really important. Mao wasn't perfect, at all.

So, he didn't grow enough food for a country that had been burned to the ground for 100 years.

And he/some of his people might have tortured some people.

Not great, not great at all.

Most evil? Very confusing to me though.

You're actually defending Mao and Stalin?