Geranium oil and testing!

[Mero1991]

Does geranium oil can make you test positive in WADA drug test?is it ok to take some thing like velocity XT (Caffein is not prohibited by WADA)?

[Mero1991]

Bump!

[Mero1991]

Anyone guys??

[RooRooTJ]

What would it make you test positive for? Velocity XT would be something that would be ok. None of its ingredients are on the WADA banned list. PM me with any further questions you have and I would be glad to help.

[-SDR-]

Unless something has recently change with WADA, you should be fine.. And be sure to let us know how the Velocity XT works out for you.

[Mfusick]

Unless something has recently change with WADA, you should be fine.. And be sure to let us know how the Velocity XT works out for you.

I will give it two thumbs up !

[-SDR-]

I will give it two thumbs up !

Thanks for the support!

[Mfusick]

Thanks for the support!

No prob.

I have tried everything. A look at my supplement stash will confirm this.

Cryshock is amongst the very, very best all in one products available today.

It is high end- effective, and reasonable priced.

Suprised more people have not caught on to this amazing product.

It contains everything you would ever want in a preworkout drink and tastes great.

I laugh to myself everytime I see a great review of whiteflood, Nanovapor, and SP250.

Obviously the marketing has grabbed these people, and any new user to pre workout products will get a nice rise from 200mg of caffiene.

But Honesly- Cryshock has so many more good things in it- and tastes better too.

I don't think I have ever seen someone say they tried and it did not like it.

And I could never imagine somone trying a full reccomended dose of cryshock and then saying that SP250 or such works better. Not unless they felt like telling lies.

For me - the seperation and quality and effectivness is quite evident.

I will be buying some more with my next order.

You guys should consider a ready to drink like Clearshot type product.

It's the only way to make it better. Ready to drink products are the most convienent to use, and also the most effective and fastest acting.

[-SDR-]

You guys should consider a ready to drink like Clearshot type product.

This has already been designed well over a year ago, just waiting for the right time to release the product

[Mfusick]

This has already been designed well over a year ago, just waiting for the right time to release the product

Probably now.

I can not think of any product out there right now like a Cryshock or Clearshot available in a RTD formula.

Any RTD anyone knows about with 1,3 dymth, citrulline mallate, pump or energy products?

[quigs]

What would it make you test positive for? Velocity XT would be something that would be ok. None of its ingredients are on the WADA banned list. PM me with any further questions you have and I would be glad to help.

Unless something has recently change with WADA, you should be fine.. And be sure to let us know how the Velocity XT works out for you.

Be careful with your words here guys. Pheynylethylamine could certainly cause a false-positive for amphetamines on a drug test.

[Mfusick]

Probably now.

I can not think of any product out there right now like a Cryshock or Clearshot available in a RTD formula.

Any RTD anyone knows about with 1,3 dymth, citrulline mallate, pump or energy products?

Going to bump this for an answer.

I want to know if there is any Ready To Drink Pre workout products like Clearshot?

With 1,3 Dymeth in it (geranamine) or whatever you want to call it.

Citrulline Malate, Beta Alanine, and any pump product would be a bonus too.

[tino124]

Going to bump this for an answer.

I want to know if there is any Ready To Drink Pre workout products like Clearshot?

With 1,3 Dymeth in it (geranamine) or whatever you want to call it.

Citrulline Malate, Beta Alanine, and any pump product would be a bonus too.

Try Jack3d by USP labs. Has Dimeth, BA and gives insane pumps. Only thing its missing is CM.

[Obnoxious123]

Try Jack3d by USP labs. Has Dimeth, BA and gives insane pumps. Only thing its missing is CM.

thats not RTD

[Mfusick]

thats not RTD

I have jacked.

It is good. But it only punches you in the face. It does not smash into it at 1000mph like a run away freight train... Like clearshot does.

I am looking for that one mouthful- hits you so instantly... beyond explanation energy rush that allows you a workout that for 1 hour plus boarders not just on unhealthy... but inches from passing the fu ck out. Only thing keeps you going is that voice... the whisper.. from clearshot... saying.. "one more set"

I need 4 scoops of Jacked to get that kinda effect.. and then I am just freaking out.

It aint smooth like the clearshot.

I want RTD.

Ready to drink... is just better.

[Mfusick]

Try Jack3d by USP labs. Has Dimeth, BA and gives insane pumps. Only thing its missing is CM.

Oh.. by the way..

CRYOSHOCK by Neogenix is even better than Jacked.

Check it out. You will thank me

[-SDR-]

Oh.. by the way..

CRYOSHOCK by Neogenix is even better than Jacked.

Check it out. You will thank me

What can I say.. CryoShock is hard to beat!

[Mfusick]

What can I say.. CryoShock is hard to beat!

It is just less popular. It has not caught on yet with as much hype as jack3d.

[RooRooTJ]

It is just less popular. It has not caught on yet with as much hype as jack3d.

Hopefully people will take advantage of the free samples in the company promotion and it will gain the recognition it deserves.

[Patrick Arnold]

Does geranium oil can make you test positive in WADA drug test?is it ok to take some thing like velocity XT (Caffein is not prohibited by WADA)?

first of all you are a fool if you are a wada tested athlete and are thinking you will get an adequate answer from board reps.

second of all if you take geranamine (methylhexaneamine) during competition you will test positive. All it takes is 5 minutes of research and reading the WADA 2010 prohibited substance list

Its guys like you (well maybe not like you in particular but i am on a roll here) that act stupidly and then when caught end up acting like the victim and then sue the makers of the supplement they ignorantly took

As far as neogenix reps on here go you guys should be ashamed of yourselves (or whoever told you that the stuff was fine should be). Come on. This kind of stupidity can end up getting the stuff banned for good

[Patrick Arnold]

Be careful with your words here guys. Pheynylethylamine could certainly cause a false-positive for amphetamines on a drug test.

thats why you claim it before your test. you should always disclose every supplement and drug before a urine test, so you don't end up with explaining a false positive after the fact

[Ted Nugent]

Hopefully people will take advantage of the free samples in the company promotion and it will gain the recognition it deserves.

how would i go about getting one of these samples? im debating between a few products for my next purchase with Jack3d being one of them, however this thread is causing me to reconsider!

[Mfusick]

how would i go about getting one of these samples? im debating between a few products for my next purchase with Jack3d being one of them, however this thread is causing me to reconsider!

Neogenix will mail it to you. Just a heads up. One packet is half serving. You need two packets to make a serving.

I tried only one (never read instructions) it worked pretty good but I was not impressed. I later realized I needed to try both packs to make a full serving- and OMG - it was excellent.

Highly reccomend you check it out.

[Mfusick]

first of all you are a fool if you are a wada tested athlete and are thinking you will get an adequate answer from board reps.

second of all if you take geranamine (methylhexaneamine) during competition you will test positive. All it takes is 5 minutes of research and reading the WADA 2010 prohibited substance list

Its guys like you (well maybe not like you in particular but i am on a roll here) that act stupidly and then when caught end up acting like the victim and then sue the makers of the supplement they ignorantly took

As far as neogenix reps on here go you guys should be ashamed of yourselves (or whoever told you that the stuff was fine should be). Come on. This kind of stupidity can end up getting the stuff banned for good

Powerfull post !

Thanks PA- ultra imformative like always.

Did you ever respond to the bull**** posted in the other thread?

[Mfusick]

Powerfull post !

Thanks PA- ultra imformative like always.

Did you ever respond to the bullsh*t posted in the other thread?

This bullsh*t---------------------------V




Chemist's New Product Contains Hidden Substance

By Amy Shipley
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, May 8, 2006; Page E01

An Illinois chemist awaiting sentencing for his role in the biggest steroid scandal in U.S. history has for months been involved in marketing a dietary supplement containing a little-known amphetamine-like substance that would be undetectable in current sports drug tests, according to an analysis of the product for The Post.

Patrick Arnold, who in a recent plea deal admitted providing steroids to the drug ring that ensnared Barry Bonds and a number of other famous athletes, runs a company that has been selling the amphetamine-like compound over the Internet in a dietary supplement that describes the substance with the invented trademark name Geranamine.

It is illegal to sell dietary supplements without listing the ingredients by their common or usual names, according to Robert Moore, the Food and Drug Administration's Team Leader in the Division of Dietary Supplement Programs.

The product, Ergopharm's Ergolean AMP, contains an obscure substance that was patented in 1944 and considered for use as an inhalant for nasal decongestion by Eli Lilly and Company. It is known as methylhexaneamine, according to Don Catlin, a noted researcher who analyzed the product and was reimbursed for the work by The Post.

"The chemical structure is similar to amphetamines and ephedrine," said Catlin, whose Los Angeles laboratory provides drug testing for Olympic sports, minor league baseball, the NFL and NCAA. "In this class of drugs, everything depends on the dose. Take enough of it and your heart rate and blood pressure will go up and you can die."

Amphetamines are illegal without a prescription. An official at one of Arnold's companies told The Post the substance was legal because it could be found in nature. Ephedrine, also found in nature, was banned from the dietary supplement market after Baltimore Orioles pitcher Steve Bechler in 2003 died after using it.

Stimulants have been abused by athletes for decades and were considered mainstays in Major League Baseball clubhouses, many players have said publicly, before baseball began a drug testing program in 2004. Because methylhexaneamine would not show up in standard drug screens -- though that will quickly change as soon as Catlin's discovery is publicized -- it could offer athletes in sports that test for stimulants such as ephedrine and amphetamines an alternative that would not produce a positive test.

Athletes have shown they are desperate for such shortcuts. A number of top track and field athletes, including burgeoning superstar Kelli White, were found in 2003 to be using modafinil, which is a prescription drug used to treat narcolepsy that also is in the amphetamines class. After testing positive for the drug under a strict testing code unique to France, White was forced to relinquish her 2003 world championship medals in the 100 and 200 meters. The drug later was banned by the World Anti-Doping Agency.

Companies that wish to market ingredients that have never before been sold in dietary supplements are required to notify the FDA before doing so and to provide information about the product's safety. The FDA has received no notification about methylhexaneamine from Ergopharm, an FDA spokesperson said. Companies are only exempted from this pre-market notification if the ingredient was marketed in a supplement before 1994 or has a history of use in the food supply.

AMP's label states that the product is a "proprietary blend" of Geranamine, theobroma cacau seed and caffeine. Geranamine has no scientific meaning, Catlin said. The trademark was applied for in January 2005 and is held by Proviant, Ergopharm's parent company. According to the trademark registration, Geranamine is a "constituent of flower oil sold as an integral component of nutritional supplements."

In response to an e-mail query directed to Arnold about methylhexaneamine's presence in AMP and the product's legality, Matthew Daniel, a research and development chemist at Proviant, said Geranamine was found in nature and therefore legal to market in a dietary supplement. He included a reference line to a Chinese research paper.

So is ephedrine. Though it is legal to sell naturally occurring compounds in dietary supplements and ephedrine is found in plants, the FDA determined in 2001 that ephedrine produced synthetically could not be considered a legal dietary ingredient.

Daniel and Arnold did not respond to questions as to why methylhexaneamine was not specifically mentioned on the label. They also did not respond to a query about whether they notified the FDA before marketing the product or whether the methylhexaneamine was produced synthetically. The Post sent several e-mails to and left telephone messages with both.

Patrick Arnold has admitted designing a steroid for the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative.
Arnold's sales of the product provide further evidence of the difficulty of lawmakers' and sports officials' attempts to crack down on performance-enhancing drugs in sports. It also highlights the grave problems plaguing the dietary supplement industry since a 1994 act that was intended to make herbal remedies and vitamin products more readily available left the industry virtually unregulated.

The Post reported last fall that six designer steroids were being sold in dietary supplements. Several of the manufacturers discontinued the products, and the FDA issued several warning letters. The FDA oversees the industry, but it does not examine products before they go to market unless companies submit requests to market new dietary ingredients.

Methylhexaneamine is reminiscent of the first steroid Arnold admitted designing for the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative (Balco), which federal authorities said provided performance-enhancing drugs to professional athletes in football, baseball and track and field. That steroid, known as norbolethone, also had been the subject of decades-old research, but when the research was abandoned, the substance effectively was forgotten. Because of its obscurity, it wasn't specifically banned when steroids were outlawed in the United States in 1990. Before the 2000 Summer Games in Sydney, Arnold resurrected it and distributed it secretly to athletes. Once federal authorities became aware of it, it was made illegal.

Arnold claims on the Ergopharm Web site that AMP gives dieters and athletes an alternative to ephedrine with fewer negative side effects. AMP has "adrenaline properties" and is "the most powerful weight tool you can purchase without a prescription," Arnold says on the site.

Ergopharm is a division of Proviant Technologies Inc., in Champaign, Ill., which manufactures bulk nutraceutical ingredients and provides contract manufacturing services, according to Ergopharm's Web site. Arnold, the founder of Ergopharm, is a vice president at Proviant. When reached by phone, Proviant's owner, Ramlakhan Boodram, declined an interview request.

The Post obtained a copy of the Chinese paper Daniel cited to defend the company's claim that Geranamine was a natural substance. The paper, which came from an engineering institute in Guiyang, China, claims that there are more than 40 constituents of geranium oil, and that methylhexaneamine is one of them, making up less than 1 percent of the substance (0.66 percent).

Besides the Chinese research paper, The Post could find no other modern research on methylhexaneamine. It was studied in the 1940s and 1950s. Catlin could not find any research indicating oral administration in humans. It is unclear whether the substance is toxic, addictive or has other harmful side effects. The 1944 patent states that methylhexaneamine has fewer side effects than amphetamines and ephedrine, but the FDA has not evaluated it.

"This stuff ought not be out there," Catlin said. "It's dangerous material."

[Patrick Arnold]

Powerfull post !

Thanks PA- ultra imformative like always.

Did you ever respond to the bull**** posted in the other thread?

what bs?

[Patrick Arnold]

This bullsh*t---------------------------V




Chemist's New Product Contains Hidden Substance

By Amy Shipley
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, May 8, 2006; Page E01

An Illinois chemist awaiting sentencing for his role in the biggest steroid scandal in U.S. history has for months been involved in marketing a dietary supplement containing a little-known amphetamine-like substance that would be undetectable in current sports drug tests, according to an analysis of the product for The Post.

Patrick Arnold, who in a recent plea deal admitted providing steroids to the drug ring that ensnared Barry Bonds and a number of other famous athletes, runs a company that has been selling the amphetamine-like compound over the Internet in a dietary supplement that describes the substance with the invented trademark name Geranamine.

It is illegal to sell dietary supplements without listing the ingredients by their common or usual names, according to Robert Moore, the Food and Drug Administration's Team Leader in the Division of Dietary Supplement Programs.

The product, Ergopharm's Ergolean AMP, contains an obscure substance that was patented in 1944 and considered for use as an inhalant for nasal decongestion by Eli Lilly and Company. It is known as methylhexaneamine, according to Don Catlin, a noted researcher who analyzed the product and was reimbursed for the work by The Post.

"The chemical structure is similar to amphetamines and ephedrine," said Catlin, whose Los Angeles laboratory provides drug testing for Olympic sports, minor league baseball, the NFL and NCAA. "In this class of drugs, everything depends on the dose. Take enough of it and your heart rate and blood pressure will go up and you can die."

Amphetamines are illegal without a prescription. An official at one of Arnold's companies told The Post the substance was legal because it could be found in nature. Ephedrine, also found in nature, was banned from the dietary supplement market after Baltimore Orioles pitcher Steve Bechler in 2003 died after using it.

Stimulants have been abused by athletes for decades and were considered mainstays in Major League Baseball clubhouses, many players have said publicly, before baseball began a drug testing program in 2004. Because methylhexaneamine would not show up in standard drug screens -- though that will quickly change as soon as Catlin's discovery is publicized -- it could offer athletes in sports that test for stimulants such as ephedrine and amphetamines an alternative that would not produce a positive test.

Athletes have shown they are desperate for such shortcuts. A number of top track and field athletes, including burgeoning superstar Kelli White, were found in 2003 to be using modafinil, which is a prescription drug used to treat narcolepsy that also is in the amphetamines class. After testing positive for the drug under a strict testing code unique to France, White was forced to relinquish her 2003 world championship medals in the 100 and 200 meters. The drug later was banned by the World Anti-Doping Agency.

Companies that wish to market ingredients that have never before been sold in dietary supplements are required to notify the FDA before doing so and to provide information about the product's safety. The FDA has received no notification about methylhexaneamine from Ergopharm, an FDA spokesperson said. Companies are only exempted from this pre-market notification if the ingredient was marketed in a supplement before 1994 or has a history of use in the food supply.

AMP's label states that the product is a "proprietary blend" of Geranamine, theobroma cacau seed and caffeine. Geranamine has no scientific meaning, Catlin said. The trademark was applied for in January 2005 and is held by Proviant, Ergopharm's parent company. According to the trademark registration, Geranamine is a "constituent of flower oil sold as an integral component of nutritional supplements."

In response to an e-mail query directed to Arnold about methylhexaneamine's presence in AMP and the product's legality, Matthew Daniel, a research and development chemist at Proviant, said Geranamine was found in nature and therefore legal to market in a dietary supplement. He included a reference line to a Chinese research paper.

So is ephedrine. Though it is legal to sell naturally occurring compounds in dietary supplements and ephedrine is found in plants, the FDA determined in 2001 that ephedrine produced synthetically could not be considered a legal dietary ingredient.

Daniel and Arnold did not respond to questions as to why methylhexaneamine was not specifically mentioned on the label. They also did not respond to a query about whether they notified the FDA before marketing the product or whether the methylhexaneamine was produced synthetically. The Post sent several e-mails to and left telephone messages with both.

Patrick Arnold has admitted designing a steroid for the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative.
Arnold's sales of the product provide further evidence of the difficulty of lawmakers' and sports officials' attempts to crack down on performance-enhancing drugs in sports. It also highlights the grave problems plaguing the dietary supplement industry since a 1994 act that was intended to make herbal remedies and vitamin products more readily available left the industry virtually unregulated.

The Post reported last fall that six designer steroids were being sold in dietary supplements. Several of the manufacturers discontinued the products, and the FDA issued several warning letters. The FDA oversees the industry, but it does not examine products before they go to market unless companies submit requests to market new dietary ingredients.

Methylhexaneamine is reminiscent of the first steroid Arnold admitted designing for the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative (Balco), which federal authorities said provided performance-enhancing drugs to professional athletes in football, baseball and track and field. That steroid, known as norbolethone, also had been the subject of decades-old research, but when the research was abandoned, the substance effectively was forgotten. Because of its obscurity, it wasn't specifically banned when steroids were outlawed in the United States in 1990. Before the 2000 Summer Games in Sydney, Arnold resurrected it and distributed it secretly to athletes. Once federal authorities became aware of it, it was made illegal.

Arnold claims on the Ergopharm Web site that AMP gives dieters and athletes an alternative to ephedrine with fewer negative side effects. AMP has "adrenaline properties" and is "the most powerful weight tool you can purchase without a prescription," Arnold says on the site.

Ergopharm is a division of Proviant Technologies Inc., in Champaign, Ill., which manufactures bulk nutraceutical ingredients and provides contract manufacturing services, according to Ergopharm's Web site. Arnold, the founder of Ergopharm, is a vice president at Proviant. When reached by phone, Proviant's owner, Ramlakhan Boodram, declined an interview request.

The Post obtained a copy of the Chinese paper Daniel cited to defend the company's claim that Geranamine was a natural substance. The paper, which came from an engineering institute in Guiyang, China, claims that there are more than 40 constituents of geranium oil, and that methylhexaneamine is one of them, making up less than 1 percent of the substance (0.66 percent).

Besides the Chinese research paper, The Post could find no other modern research on methylhexaneamine. It was studied in the 1940s and 1950s. Catlin could not find any research indicating oral administration in humans. It is unclear whether the substance is toxic, addictive or has other harmful side effects. The 1944 patent states that methylhexaneamine has fewer side effects than amphetamines and ephedrine, but the FDA has not evaluated it.

"This stuff ought not be out there," Catlin said. "It's dangerous material."

this article BTW was initiated by a person called AMP Geranamine or some name like that. he came on the net in 2006 or 2005 and bragged how he told amy shipley all about geranamine and that it was a dangerous drug and i should go down blah blah blah.

the thread in question included some people tracking down his IP address. it was claimed that it matched an address used by author l rea. however i don't think it was ever confirmed


sometimes it scares me how much some people hate me out there

[nano.ix]

this article BTW was initiated by a person called AMP Geranamine or some name like that. he came on the net in 2006 or 2005 and bragged how he told amy shipley all about geranamine and that it was a dangerous drug and i should go down blah blah blah.

the thread in question included some people tracking down his IP address. it was claimed that it matched an address used by author l rea. however i don't think it was ever confirmed


sometimes it scares me how much some people hate me out there

there will always be haters when you are in the media, you know you have just as strong/if not stronger fan base. Entertaining & insightful posts and articles (MD) whats to hate?

[Mfusick]

this article BTW was initiated by a person called AMP Geranamine or some name like that. he came on the net in 2006 or 2005 and bragged how he told amy shipley all about geranamine and that it was a dangerous drug and i should go down blah blah blah.

the thread in question included some people tracking down his IP address. it was claimed that it matched an address used by author l rea. however i don't think it was ever confirmed


sometimes it scares me how much some people hate me out there

I could read the dislike for you between the lines... obvious on part of the author.

Also- Geranamine works- That's enough said. It is no more dangerous than million of other products people use or consume each day.

Like I said it make me want to punch the author in the face

[NeoRudyx]

first of all you are a fool if you are a wada tested athlete and are thinking you will get an adequate answer from board reps.

second of all if you take geranamine (methylhexaneamine) during competition you will test positive. All it takes is 5 minutes of research and reading the WADA 2010 prohibited substance list

Its guys like you (well maybe not like you in particular but i am on a roll here) that act stupidly and then when caught end up acting like the victim and then sue the makers of the supplement they ignorantly took

As far as neogenix reps on here go you guys should be ashamed of yourselves (or whoever told you that the stuff was fine should be). Come on. This kind of stupidity can end up getting the stuff banned for good

Patrick, you are right and we apologize for recommending it. It was included on the 2010 list. We had not seen it before, but now we know.

Thanks!!