If Zionism and a Jewish State is legitimate, why is Christian Nationalism not?

[dabbmw2002]

I'm not arguing for Christian nationalism, but I am noticing this refrain from the Left that Christian nationalism is a threat the United States. Many of these same people are ardent supporters of Israel and hardcore Zionist. How does one rationalize supporting one, but condemning the other?

[chicagopizzaboy]

Because Zionism is based on the victim mentality of the Holocaust, whatever the real numbers were. The world is supposed to feel guilty and let Jews have their theocratic state no matter how barbaric, genocidal, or amoral it is. Remember the USS Liberty.

[Gainzzz]

Because REASONS and such

Don't be antisemitic

[dakensta]

If Zionism and a Jewish State is legitimate, why is Christian Nationalism not?

Neither is.

[Dave22reborn]

Why is a Nigerian migrant, so obsessed with Israel?

[isingmodel]

You should redirect this energy to the 22 Arab muslim states surrounding immediately Israel and ask them if Pan Arabism, Arab Nationalism, or Islamic Theocracy are legitimate and moral ideas. Or even the muslims who live in the west. Bizarrely, you never do.

[BullittEV]

I wouldnt have a problem with it if thats what the people of the land want.

[dabbmw2002]

You should redirect this energy to the 22 Arab muslim states surrounding immediately Israel and ask them if Pan Arabism, Arab Nationalism, or Islamic Theocracy are legitimate and moral ideas. Or even the muslims who live in the west. Bizarrely, you never do.

I'm against ALL theocratic nations of all types Islam included and I would prefer to not have Muslim immigration to the United States for the most part.

Try again.


When the Speaker of the House and the most prominent members of our government profess their ardent and undying support for Islam and defend Islam in the Middle East and imply not doing so makes you anti American or racist, then I'll be as annoyed as I am with our support of Israel.

Neither is.

Fair enough

[isingmodel]

I'm against ALL theocratic nations of all types Islam included and I would prefer to not have Muslim immigration to the United States for the most part.

Try again.


When the Speaker of the House and the most prominent members of our government profess their ardent and undying support for Islam and defend Islam in the Middle East and imply not doing so makes you anti American or racist, then I'll be as annoyed as I am with our support of Israel.




Fair enough

The US defends countries it thinks are strategically valuable to its interests. Same reason it's supporting Ukraine. You can disagree with all of this, but it has fuk all to with the tenets of Zionism or Theodore Hertzl. Israel is just a now-established country which US politicians broadly believe is worth protecting in the US' geopolitical interests.

Also where are you seeing the left being "hardcore Zionists"? The progressives marching for Gaza all over the US didn't give you the hint? The most hardcore Zionists in the US are far right wing Christians who would also love Christian nationalism in the US. You seem remarkably confused.

[dabbmw2002]

The US defends countries it thinks are strategically valuable to its interests. Same reason it's supporting Ukraine. You can disagree with all of this, but it has fuk all to with the tenets of Zionism or Theodore Hertzl. Israel is just a now-established country which US politicians broadly believe is worth protecting in the US' geopolitical interests.

The House GOP leader was addressing an emergency meeting of Christians United For Israel, convened after Iran’s weekend missile attack on the Middle East American ally.

"I'm going to state something that you all know – at this critical moment, the United States must show unwavering strength and support for Israel…We have to make certain that the entire world understands that Israel is not alone and God is going to bless the nation that blesses Israel," Johnson said. "We understand that that's our role. It's also our biblical admonition. This is something that's an article of faith for us. It also happens to be great foreign policy."

Lmao. You live in England right? Perhaps you don't know as much about my country as I do.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox...elp-israel.amp

Also where are you seeing the left being "hardcore Zionists"? The progressives marching for Gaza all over the US didn't give you the hint? The most hardcore Zionists in the US are far right wing Christians who would also love Christian nationalism in the US. You seem remarkably confused.

The billionaires who are getting students arrested on college campuses are liberal Democrats, not Republicans. Don't confuse the students with the ruling class.

[BunkerBoy]

I'm not arguing for Christian nationalism, but I am noticing this refrain from the Left that Christian nationalism is a threat the United States. Many of these same people are ardent supporters of Israel and hardcore Zionist. How does one rationalize supporting one, but condemning the other?

Have you seen what your fellow R&P buddies are saying about black people in this other front thread page?
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=185289493

Man, first Vivek gets reminded where he falls on the Republican tier list, and youre up next.

[isingmodel]

Lmao. You live in England right? Perhaps you don't know as much about my country as I do.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox...elp-israel.amp





The billionaires who are getting students arrested on college campuses are liberal Democrats, not Republicans. Don't confuse the students with the ruling class.

So the staunch Christian right are personally massive supporters of Israel - how exactly does this substantiate your claim that Christian nationalism and Zionism are somehow at odds in the US? It's always the same people.

The only people I know of in the US that are very hostile to Christianity are the progressive nu-left, and they are massively skewed towards hatred of Israel too for the most part.

Also if you really think the underlying reason for America's continued support of Israel is some Biblical narrative or 19th Century Zionist philosophy rather than modern geopolitics then you've gone beyond the point of saving. What X religious Republican politician says means fuk all, the US establishment has always supported Israel whoever is in power.

[Leonydus]

you won't get an answer because it is indefensible. Israel is America's parasite - clearly. America is supposed to be a Christian nation but instead its serving these Christ killers who hate us all.

jew shills in this thread like ising /dave/ bullittEV will tell you we should support Israel because of some retarded **** like "BECAUSE OUR STRATEGIC INTERESTS, goyim"

What strategic interests?

.. welll.. does the strategic interest of pulling America into more wars to benefit israel sound good enough? how about all of our politicians are completely useless because they are blackmailed and bought out to serve Israel, Does that not sound like a great strategic interests?

the "our" they are referring to is not "our", its (((our))) interests. not americans interests.

but israel is the only democracy is the middle east, goy (its not)


.. well think of the holocaust antisemite!! what are you some kind of nazi!!?! im gonna get you fired!! your ugly and a virgin!!

these ****in jews man, ive heard it all. it's a big joke at this point. just the fuk up jew, everyone is sick of these people.

[BespokenBrah]

Israel will never allow Rome to rise again.

[2011change]

Because 6 million


Because they control every legit mechanism to push this. They will buy you one way or another.

[dabbmw2002]

So the staunch Christian right are personally massive supporters of Israel - how exactly does this substantiate your claim that Christian nationalism and Zionism are somehow at odds in the US? It's always the same people.

.

Interesting - you brought up and continue to harp on the issue of the right wing Christians supporting Zionism which I completely agree with and dislike, but somehow you think because that's true that there aren't leftists who worry about Christian nationalisn that support Zionism?

Both can exist at the same time. Seems you're trying very hard to distract from that.

For once Leonydus is right, you'te not answering the question - are the two compatible together?

[BeachPro11]

The holocaust is a get out of jail free card. For life.

And no I do not think that millions of Jews were incinerated. Many were imprisoned. Some died.

A slaughter? I just don't see it.

[BullittEV]

you won't get an answer because it is indefensible. Israel is America's parasite - clearly. America is supposed to be a Christian nation but instead its serving these Christ killers who hate us all.

jew shills in this thread like ising /dave/ bullittEV will tell you we should support Israel because of some retarded **** like "BECAUSE OUR STRATEGIC INTERESTS, goyim"

What strategic interests?

.. welll.. does the strategic interest of pulling America into more wars to benefit israel sound good enough? how about all of our politicians are completely useless because they are blackmailed and bought out to serve Israel, Does that not sound like a great strategic interests?

the "our" they are referring to is not "our", its (((our))) interests. not americans interests.

but israel is the only democracy is the middle east, goy (its not)


.. well think of the holocaust antisemite!! what are you some kind of nazi!!?! im gonna get you fired!! your ugly and a virgin!!

these ****in jews man, ive heard it all. it's a big joke at this point. just the fuk up jew, everyone is sick of these people.

I dont know how many times I have to say it but I do not support aid to Israel. You buffoon lmao

[BuckNakedinBama]

It's almost like people with shared sets of values and beliefs prefer to be around those with similar values and beliefs rather than opposing ones. SHOCKING.

[Dave22reborn]

You should redirect this energy to the 22 Arab muslim states surrounding immediately Israel and ask them if Pan Arabism, Arab Nationalism, or Islamic Theocracy are legitimate and moral ideas. Or even the muslims who live in the west. Bizarrely, you never do.

****....... Mic Drop???

[Dave22reborn]

Because 6 million


Because they control every legit mechanism to push this. They will buy you one way or another.

Still crying over the Iranian president?

[dabbmw2002]

****....... Mic Drop???

So because they're retarded we get to be retarded too?

[alain]

Both are legitimate.

If Israel or Jews want a pursue a Jewish state they have every right to, just as the Germans wanted a German nationalistic state. The issue is only the Jew are allowed to have a Jewish state while everybody else is racist.

Nations should be allowed to decide what kind of nation they want to be, diverse, homogentisic etc.. whatever.

[dabbmw2002]

Q

Both are legitimate.

If Israel or Jews want a pursue a Jewish state they have every right to, just as the Germans wanted a German nationalistic state. The issue is only the Jew are allowed to have a Jewish state while everybody else is racist.

Nations should be allowed to decide what kind of nation they want to be, diverse, homogentisic etc.. whatever.

I disagree with the idea of a state based around race or religion but I do agree that it's none of our business and we should stay out of it irrespective of who it is. If US politicians were quoting scripture as reasons to support a Muslim theocracy I would be equally outraged

[Dave22reborn]

Both are legitimate.

If Israel or Jews want a pursue a Jewish state they have every right to, just as the Germans wanted a German nationalistic state. The issue is only the Jew are allowed to have a Jewish state while everybody else is racist.

Nations should be allowed to decide what kind of nation they want to be, diverse, homogentisic etc.. whatever.

Isreal has like four million Arab citizens, and has numerous Arab politicians.

[Polaris]

Isreal has like four million Arab citizens, and has numerous Arab politicians.

A quick Google search, will repeatedly yield roughly the same result...it's about 2 million. You couldn't take a few second to fact check that before posting such egregiously inaccurate information?

[Dave22reborn]

A quick Google search, will repeatedly yield roughly the same result...it's about 2 million. You couldn't take a few second to fact check that before posting such egregiously inaccurate information?

2 million, 21% of the country's population.

[Leonydus]

2 million, 21% of the country's population.

[Bodhy]

The Vatican/Holy See would be considered a Christian nation, as it consists basically entirely of the Vatican City and the Catholic church.


In the Middle Ages and early modern period there were countries with Christianity as a state religion, wars waged over different versions of Christianity, the church had massive power and church was integrated with state etc.

We still have that legacy in the West. The West is still premised on Judeo-Christian values, it's just that there is also a mix of ideas from secularist Enlightenment philosophers and politicians like Bentham, Hobbes and Smith etc. These guys argued for separation of church and state but also religious tolerance.

It can be cyclical though with an occasional theocrat wanting to take things back to a religious based government. The GOP seem to want a theocracy but I'm not sure if this is their real belief or they are just doing so to appease their fanatical evangelical base.

[Paul Kreul]

The Vatican/Holy See would be considered a Christian nation, as it consists basically entirely of the Vatican City and the Catholic church.


In the Middle Ages and early modern period there were countries with Christianity as a state religion, wars waged over different versions of Christianity, the church had massive power and church was integrated with state etc.

We still have that legacy in the West. The West is still premised on Judeo-Christian values, it's just that there is also a mix of ideas from secularist Enlightenment philosophers and politicians like Bentham, Hobbes and Smith etc. These guys argued for separation of church and state but also religious tolerance.

It can be cyclical though with an occasional theocrat wanting to take things back to a religious based government. The GOP seem to want a theocracy but I'm not sure if this is their real belief or they are just doing so to appease their fanatical evangelical base.

"Separation of Church and State" is not what you think it means when applied to the US as the origin of the term. Separation of Church & State was never in the Constitution. It was in a letter that Jefferson wrote to the Danberry Baptist Church in Connecticut because the church felt the first amendment was not strong enough to protect religious freedom. Jefferson assured them that the Constitution built a wall separating the church & State, meaning the State could not control the Church. It means the exact OPPOSITE of what you & many others misuse it for


In fact, every single state Constitution makes explicit references to God & religion.