Why are people still anti union?

[JackyChin]

When you can plainly see the benefits unions bring in terms of salary and quality of life.

Union workers average 10-30% higher pay than non-union in the United States after controlling for individual, job, and labor market characteristics.

Only 6% of private sector workers in the U.S. are union members.

[Godfrd824]

It's one of those things where, why not negotiate for yourself? Unions can be helpful for lower skill jobs, but for higher end jobs I don't see how they could do anything but hinder.

If everyone strives for the best, there won't be enough people to fill the lower end jobs, and those jobs will naturally have to pay more. This has happened in Japan naturally, without the government or unions interfering.

Example, I am sure underwater welders don't need an union.

[ezmac31]

Teachers unions ruined the perception of all unions during Covid. BRB we should be allowed to work from home forever, and also demand all your kids get vaccinated. Oh and every school needs hundreds of thousands in ventilation upgrades.

Unions overplayed their hands and have nobody to blame but themselves.

[Zere0wn]

well, they're the reason the japanese crushed the american car industry

[Narrator02]

well, they're the reason the japanese crushed the american car industry

totally clueless post. Japan subsidizes their auto plants just like they did for stell back in the 80's allowing them to sell below cost. No industry can compete with that.

[Zere0wn]

totally clueless post. Japan subsidizes their auto plants just like they did for stell back in the 80's allowing them to sell below cost. No industry can compete with that.

rofl yea and the american government never gives any money to car manufacturers

[bignpisst]

It's one of those things where, why not negotiate for yourself? Unions can be helpful for lower skill jobs, but for higher end jobs I don't see how they could do anything but hinder.

If everyone strives for the best, there won't be enough people to fill the lower end jobs, and those jobs will naturally have to pay more. This has happened in Japan naturally, without the government or unions interfering.

Example, I am sure underwater welders don't need an union.

But who teaches this underwater welder? Maybe a union welding apprenticeship?

[3fifty]

I haven't made an opinion about unions in life yet.


50% of me thinks they're probably very smart and beneficial

50% of me worries that they can get TOO strong and really hurt companies if all their employees band together and demand too much


I don't know which is more true yet.

[jall65000]

Example, I am sure underwater welders don't need an union.

It's not just about pay, it's also about conditions.

For example, what happens when your employer decides they're going to buy substandard diving equipment because it's cheaper? Or they decide everyone needs to work 5 hrs more per week to meet some arbitrary target? Or, to save money, overseas recruitment will be used to bring in cheaper labor?

These are all things unionised employees can prevent, but a group of individuals can do nothing about. They just have to bend over and take it. Why do you think Americans have amongst the lowest annual leave entitlement in the world?

[Godfrd824]

It's not just about pay, it's also about conditions.

For example, what happens when your employer decides they're going to buy substandard diving equipment because it's cheaper? Or they decide everyone needs to work 5 hrs more per week to meet some arbitrary target? Or, to save money, overseas recruitment will be used to bring in cheaper labor?

These are all things unionised employees can prevent, but a group of individuals can do nothing about. They just have to bend over and take it. Why do you think Americans have amongst the lowest annual leave entitlement in the world?

If you have the skills you could find another job the same day. If the company is being unreasonable, just leave.

Personally I take like 6 weeks of vacation a year.

[skier!]

Tesla basically raised the pay of factory workers in CA by a third overnight in 2024 just to keep workers from talking about unionizing.

33%

[Zelensky]

Unions vote democrat /thread.

This, 100%.

The concept of a union that supports and represents workers and uses their collective power to negotiate on their behalf in good faith is a great concept.

However in the real world unions quickly get bloated with administrative people (non workers) and take more and more for themselves, while often failing or poorly representing the workers. Unions also end up being almost exclusively far left and in the US they fund democrats, which is enough for me to hope they all get crushed

[guest89]

I think they are probably good for the workers that are part of them. But bad for society/the economy as a whole. What do I mean by this?


Well for starters a 'house' is not really that expensive. Assuming you are able to source materials from non unionized businesses. There is no reason why you can't get materials for say a 2000 square foot 3 or 4 bed 2 bath home for 100K or less. So assuming you can build it yourself/with friends. Sub 100K for a nice sized home. Assuming you need to hire labor. Say 100K for a non-union source.


So a brand new 2000 square foot home should really only cost you around 100-250K max. So why is it that in states with strong unions & lots of red tape. Do the same homes cost 3-6X as much as in non-unions states/areas?


And before I get a lot of hubub about it. I know plenty of guys that have either built their homes themselves or self contracted out their homes. Houses are not expensive unless there are lots of unions / red tape involved.


The same can go for home improvement projects. I know a contractor. A 60K project for a 'back deck' where he's working now is only a 10K project where I live. If you do the labor yourself. You can knock that down to 3000-3500ish for materials. The same guy doing the exact same job is literally 6X the price in a different state.



I won't get into other industries. But you can't convince me that the unions aren't driving a higher price point for literally every industry they are a part of.



So as a worker I get it. Cool. It makes your job safer, more profitable and more secure. But as a whole? Unions are incredibly powerful. We pay their costs as consumers more then people know.

[Zere0wn]

I do think unions made more sense 100 years ago when movement was restricted. Now that remote work is real and people can move jobs so much more easily unions are silly. If a company treats their workers like **** they will just leave and then the company that treats their workers well will get all the talented ones.

[guest89]

I do think unions made more sense 100 years ago when movement was restricted. Now that remote work is real and people can move jobs so much more easily unions are silly. If a company treats their workers like **** they will just leave and then the company that treats their workers well will get all the talented ones.

Lots of comments like this in this thread. You do understand the people working in factories making cars can't just get up and leave or work remote right? You do realize that the guys building roads, bridges, homes, and buildings can't work remote right? The vast majority of America is fairly rural and a large portion of the populous cannot just 'switch' jobs as easily as someone in a major city or who's in tech.

The brutal reality is a large portion of Americans cannot afford to lose their job or quit. And if they do, they may not find another.

[DuracellBunny]

Because the unions claim to be about "the working man", when they are actually about power and corruption.

The concept is fine, but the reality is that they are a bunch of kunts.

[Ratfish]

probably because unions are still incredibly corrupt marxists

[lebowski951]

I like unions for the sake of protecting middle class jobs. All these 3rd world immigrants we keep importing are driving down the wages of middle class workers and we do need some sort of protection in place.

However, I have met some people who have a job exclusively because the union needs bodies on site. Unions will attract some of the most spineless, sniveling, can't do anything worthless pukes you've ever seen. They will actively work against accomplishing anything, which flies in the face of competency, self reliance and self respect. Truly disgusting examples of what a man should strive to become. Keep in mind this is not the norm in unions but it's certainly worth noting.

[r32gojirra]

Lol all the retards in this thread would still be working 10 hour days 6 days a week with no workplace safety if it weren’t for unions

probably because unions are still incredibly corrupt marxists

Except for you, you’d still be locked up in the imbecile sanitarium

[Zere0wn]

Lots of comments like this in this thread. You do understand the people working in factories making cars can't just get up and leave or work remote right? You do realize that the guys building roads, bridges, homes, and buildings can't work remote right? The vast majority of America is fairly rural and a large portion of the populous cannot just 'switch' jobs as easily as someone in a major city or who's in tech.

The brutal reality is a large portion of Americans cannot afford to lose their job or quit. And if they do, they may not find another.

Couple things

1) I obviously wasn't talking about EVERYBODY. But it's much much more common to be be able to move jobs easily than it was 100 years ago
2) Those guys who work at the factory or build bridges or whatever, they could much more easily switch to another manual labor job than they could 100 years ago

Again, that's doesn't mean this is true for every single person, but its infinitely more easy to switch jobs on average than it was 100 years ago, which means unions aren't as "needed" on average as they were 100 years ago.

Americans can't afford to lose their jobs largely because of savings and spending habits, but someone who is willing to work hard can easily find work almost anywhere these days.

[Zere0wn]

I like unions for the sake of protecting middle class jobs. All these 3rd world immigrants we keep importing are driving down the wages of middle class workers and we do need some sort of protection in place.

However, I have met some people who have a job exclusively because the union needs bodies on site. Unions will attract some of the most spineless, sniveling, can't do anything worthless pukes you've ever seen. They will actively work against accomplishing anything, which flies in the face of competency, self reliance and self respect. Truly disgusting examples of what a man should strive to become. Keep in mind this is not the norm in unions but it's certainly worth noting.

this is how unions can stifle innovation

[3fifty]

I think they are probably good for the workers that are part of them. But bad for society/the economy as a whole. What do I mean by this?


Well for starters a 'house' is not really that expensive. Assuming you are able to source materials from non unionized businesses. There is no reason why you can't get materials for say a 2000 square foot 3 or 4 bed 2 bath home for 100K or less. So assuming you can build it yourself/with friends. Sub 100K for a nice sized home. Assuming you need to hire labor. Say 100K for a non-union source.


So a brand new 2000 square foot home should really only cost you around 100-250K max. So why is it that in states with strong unions & lots of red tape. Do the same homes cost 3-6X as much as in non-unions states/areas?


And before I get a lot of hubub about it. I know plenty of guys that have either built their homes themselves or self contracted out their homes. Houses are not expensive unless there are lots of unions / red tape involved.


The same can go for home improvement projects. I know a contractor. A 60K project for a 'back deck' where he's working now is only a 10K project where I live. If you do the labor yourself. You can knock that down to 3000-3500ish for materials. The same guy doing the exact same job is literally 6X the price in a different state.



I won't get into other industries. But you can't convince me that the unions aren't driving a higher price point for literally every industry they are a part of.



So as a worker I get it. Cool. It makes your job safer, more profitable and more secure. But as a whole? Unions are incredibly powerful. We pay their costs as consumers more then people know.

This is similar to my concern, they can eventually strong arm a company into a deal that really hurts the company. Companies are really good for economic growth and advancement, making your country more competitive than other countries. There's probably a mix of upside and downside with unions.

[guest89]

Couple things

1) I obviously wasn't talking about EVERYBODY. But it's much much more common to be be able to move jobs easily than it was 100 years ago
2) Those guys who work at the factory or build bridges or whatever, they could much more easily switch to another manual labor job than they could 100 years ago

Again, that's doesn't mean this is true for every single person, but its infinitely more easy to switch jobs on average than it was 100 years ago, which means unions aren't as "needed" on average as they were 100 years ago.

Americans can't afford to lose their jobs largely because of savings and spending habits, but someone who is willing to work hard can easily find work almost anywhere these days.

They can switch easier now then 100 years ago sure. But there are still a lot of places where its not that easy.



My dad is a contractor and contracts out to major companies. But he changes employers numerous times per year. He's been doing that 35+ years... He has the luxury of being able to tell someone to **** off and walkoff of a job. At this point he's worked for hundreds of different companies. But he lives in an area where there are lots of jobs available. A guy doing the same job in say, Kansas, can't do the same unless they are willing to move.

[Zere0wn]

They can switch easier now then 100 years ago sure. But there are still a lot of places where its not that easy.



My dad is a contractor and contracts out to major companies. But he changes employers numerous times per year. He's been doing that 35+ years... He has the luxury of being able to tell someone to **** off and walkoff of a job. At this point he's worked for hundreds of different companies. But he lives in an area where there are lots of jobs available. A guy doing the same job in say, Kansas, can't do the same unless they are willing to move.

so you agree with me then

even the barrier to moving locations is lower than it used to be, and it's so much easier to find alternate sources of income, there really just isn't as much need for union as there once was.

[swoleyo]

It's one of those things where, why not negotiate for yourself? Unions can be helpful for lower skill jobs, but for higher end jobs I don't see how they could do anything but hinder.

If everyone strives for the best, there won't be enough people to fill the lower end jobs, and those jobs will naturally have to pay more. This has happened in Japan naturally, without the government or unions interfering.

Example, I am sure underwater welders don't need an union.

This is a logical fallacy and terrible argument. For most there is no negotiation without a union backing you. They'll fire an Indvidual.

Try "negotiating" with Walmart or some other large corporation. They have set wage for positions. You take it or leave it.

[Zere0wn]

This is a logical fallacy and terrible argument. For most there is no negotiation without a union backing you. They'll fire an Indvidual.

Try "negotiating" with Walmart or some other large corporation. They have set wage for positions. You take it or leave it.

that's a fair point for a lot of jobs, but one negotiating tactic is just go take a higher paying job. eventually those places wont be able to find anyone to work at that wage and have to raise it.

[JayJ350]

Probably because they aren't communists?

[Godfrd824]

This is a logical fallacy and terrible argument. For most there is no negotiation without a union backing you. They'll fire an Indvidual.

Try "negotiating" with Walmart or some other large corporation. They have set wage for positions. You take it or leave it.

Why the fuk would I be looking for work at Walmart? Why would anyone who isn't in high school or college work at Walmart at all?

[theory816]

I haven't made an opinion about unions in life yet.


50% of me thinks they're probably very smart and beneficial

50% of me worries that they can get TOO strong and really hurt companies if all their employees band together and demand too much


I don't know which is more true yet.

This.

Both of them greedy af lol.

[kusok]

Ever wonder why in post credits movie titles it says things like “music recorded by Polish national Orchestra” or something like that, but it’s a Hollywood movie, so why doesn’t it say Los Angeles Philharmonic? Did you ever think about that? How come we don’t get jobs? That’s because our unions demand too much money, And not for musicians, for themselves, so as a result, we don’t get any job, Union or not Union, Eastern Europeans do, as do the Chinese. A few decades ago before unions, here in US musicians could make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, that’s like making millions today, unions destroyed all of that, It’s cheaper now to use synthesizers or go abroad than to pay the union required fees,

to continue with an example I gave in classical music how come the greatest orchestras in the past were in America? And now there are an absolute joke, well, because unions protect fat old people who don’t practice their music, And as result, the young graduates from Juilliard and other such schools simply cannot get these gigs.

so be careful when you defend unions, you only see the sales pitch, but you don’t get to see the damage these commies do.

You also say unions pay more to the employees, you sure about that? Test for you:
Ford salary: $175 per hour
Tesla salary: $125 per hour AND A SHEITLOAD OF TESLA STOCK.

Now which is REALY a higher salary you think?