Powerlifting Did Something Right

[itsagoodday]

OK will put my Dad hat and be by.

No idea what you just said. Wow. It's contagious.

[Karl_Hungus]

I had a kid squatting 550 at around 181 year before last and a kid box squatting 405 x 10 before that @175. But this isn't about them.

This has zero to do with the discussion.

There are real people being affected by this

Exactly, but you only seem to be considering a tiny fraction of those who are affected by it.

[itsagoodday]

At the end of the day, the complexities involved just add to the confusion.

Well, there's always the simple method used by horse racing. Got a fast horse that is going to out run the competition too easily? Handicap it with extra weight. Hey buddy, you competed as a man last year and want to run a marathon against women this year? Cool. Have a 50 lb weight vest. Enjoy your day.

[induced_drag]

I messed up, sorry.

Only 6

Remind me how much each one of those cost you.... Maybe if you didn't blow so much money buying trophies, you could buy a good car

[GrouchyUSMC]

You sound like the people decrying Black players in MLB in the era of the Negro leagues. You know what diversity did for baseball? Made for better games.

Not even close.

ROFLMAO

It won't happen, but thanks for adding a ridiculous level of paranoia to the conversation.

Clearly you are uninformed at the lengths of what countries like China or North Korea do to their athletes. They literally begin intense training regimens on kids as young as 5 specifically for the Olympics and have no problems with physical abuse and medical enhancement. If you don’t think this would happen, you are only fooling yourself.

It's worth noting that the gender reassignment drugs taken by these individuals would preclude them from olympic competition. Beating those drug tests isn't like beating your probation officer's piss test for pot.

Aside from seeing how easy it is to beat the system already (Icarus for example, which had a major part in the soft ban of Russia in the past Winter Olympics) if they start the athletes young enough it won’t matter anyways. By puberty some of these athletes will have a good 7 years or more of training so they would easily be able to see who the shining stars are and who should become women for the team. Then they have a good several years to transition. The IOC only needs two years to allow a transgender athlete to compete and only requires their testosterone be low for 12 months. And if you are male currently transitioning to female? No restrictions whatsoever.

Olympic weightlifting will be the biggest place to start. Laurel Hubbard from NZ already showed how an above average male weightlifter can become a female champion. Certain countries will be picking up this ball and running with it. If they have no problem with grown adults physically standing on five year old children’s legs to achieve the splits despite these kids crying their eyes out, they don’t care what kind of chemicals or surgery they need to win.

[NorwichGrad]

The trans thingy can also go the other way.

I used to shoot competitively. I have coached both male and female shooters.

What if I told you female shooters tend to shoot more accurately than male shooters?

So where am I going with this?

What if a female trans shooter decides to attach a mechanics penor and enters the male division and beats them all?

It really is black-and-white.

Some just choose to ignore common sense and refuse to honor Nature’s Laws.

“Boys have a penis. Girls have a vagina.” -Kid from Kindergarten Cop

[itsagoodday]

Some just choose to ignore common sense and refuse to honor Nature’s Laws.

Nature also creates hermaphrodites. Someone who is born with both genders. While a low percentage of overall births on the planet, they have always been in society (and, one would assume, in sports). This is not referencing the current hysteria on trans athletes, but something that has always existed.

So how, then, would Nature want those people to be incorporated into sports?

[ElrondHubbard]

I just wonder, would there be the same outcry if people born as women decided to compete in powerlifting as men? I don’t hear too much about that. It seems to only apply to transitions that give them a physical advantage, and then they invoke “fairness.”

[induced_drag]

So how, then, would Nature want those people to be incorporated into sports?

What about conjoined twins? Can they compete as one person, or do they have to enter separately.

Obviously that is sarcastic....but illustrates how far we can go with this. Birth defects (Oh my, that may be a dirty word these days), are pretty cut and dry to me. There simply may not be a place for them to compete. Is that "fair"? I am not sure. Lots of things in life are not 'fair'. You can only go so far in accommodating people. In fact, it can be argued that gender identity disorder is a mental illness. (wow....I just said it). "Transitioning" does not decrease their incredibly high rates of suicide, yet we somehow gloss over that this is necessary treatment for these individuals.

If we were really wanting to be 'fair' to these people I think we should be offering them help. We consider people who want to amputate their body parts as mentally ill. There are people who feel their limbs are not their own. This is considered a mental ilness. But throw gender identity into the mix, and somehow this is "normal"?... Not buying it.

Again, people can do what they want. I just refuse to buy into this perversion of a basic law of nature that to me is cut and dry. Men are men, women are women. (besides obvious genetic abnormalities which are considered birth defects). This is not a moral issue. It is just plain common sense. I am sorry if this hurts people's feelings. But we dont tell schizophrenics that their delusions are real. I dont think we should be telling people they were born the wrong sex. It is as silly as telling them they were supposed to have been born a fish.

[mtpockets]

What about conjoined twins? Can they compete as one person, or do they have to enter separately.

LMAO, they can compete as one in everything except eating competitions.

[sy2502]

Here's a few thoughts I have on the subject, having competed in drug tested sports much of my life:

1) The amount of test that circulates in a man's body just due to having nuts is many times higher than whatever test a woman athlete would take to improve her performance. Yet if a woman is found with that minute amount in a drug test she's out, but the dude is in? I call that bullchit.
2) Whoever is trying to make this a men vs women thing is demented. Oh if women are not inferior why aren't they looking forward to beating the dude? For the same reason that a lightweight boxer doesn't want to have to fight against a heavyweight you dumb phucks. It has nothing to do with inferior and superior, and only mentally deficient people would need this spelled out.
3) But but... what should these trans people do then? Don't they have the right to compete regardless of what their condition/situation is? Uh no, they don't. It is not a right, it is a privilege. And by the way, some of us had to start taking for medical reasons drugs that are banned by WADA. Oh boo-hoo poor us, shouldn't we be allowed to compete anyway? No, we should. And those of us with a shred of dignity simply remove ourselves from drug tested competitions out of respect for the other athletes. Because the world doesn't revolve around us and our "rights".

[Mark1T]

I just wonder, would there be the same outcry if people born as women decided to compete in powerlifting as men? I don’t hear too much about that. It seems to only apply to transitions that give them a physical advantage, and then they invoke “fairness.”

That might be because that hasn't happened. I am sure we would hear about it if and when it does. If it has happened, then those incidents are very few and far between as compared to men-trans identifying as women and competing as women against women. So, as much as I am against discrimination, complaining against men-trans identifying as women and competing as women against women is not a discrimination case, IMO. I would support a Trans Class as much as I support Men's Class and Women's Class.

Is that not reasonable?

[ElrondHubbard]

That might be because that hasn't happened. I am sure we would hear about it if and when it does. If it has happened, then those incidents are very few and far between as compared to men-trans identifying as women and competing as women against women. So, as much as I am against discrimination, complaining against men-trans identifying as women and competing as women against women is not a discrimination case, IMO. I would support a Trans Class as much as I support Men's Class and Women's Class.

Is that not reasonable?

I think a trans class is perfectly reasonable, if they can find enough competitors to support it.

[induced_drag]

I think a trans class is perfectly reasonable, if they can find enough competitors to support it.

Have you ever seen most of these "competitions"?. They barely have enough competitors to fill any of the 'masters' categories. MANY times, you get a "first" place trophy just for paying and signing up. Add to that, feds with various classes. (Raw, Raw modern...etc), guys will "shop" classes and feds so they can essentially buy "World Records". Hence my comments above why "competing" never really held any interest for myself.

[NorwichGrad]

Here's a few thoughts I have on the subject, having competed in drug tested sports much of my life:

1) The amount of test that circulates in a man's body just due to having nuts is many times higher than whatever test a woman athlete would take to improve her performance. Yet if a woman is found with that minute amount in a drug test she's out, but the dude is in? I call that bullchit.
2) Whoever is trying to make this a men vs women thing is demented. Oh if women are not inferior why aren't they looking forward to beating the dude? For the same reason that a lightweight boxer doesn't want to have to fight against a heavyweight you dumb phucks. It has nothing to do with inferior and superior, and only mentally deficient people would need this spelled out.
3) But but... what should these trans people do then? Don't they have the right to compete regardless of what their condition/situation is? Uh no, they don't. It is not a right, it is a privilege. And by the way, some of us had to start taking for medical reasons drugs that are banned by WADA. Oh boo-hoo poor us, shouldn't we be allowed to compete anyway? No, we should. And those of us with a shred of dignity simply remove ourselves from drug tested competitions out of respect for the other athletes. Because the world doesn't revolve around us and our "rights".

You’re a physique athlete. But an athlete nonetheless.

Your sport has many federations. Again, choices = freedom. And I love freedom being a hardcore anarchist.

The athletes in your sport are judged aesthetically. We both know that over the years the standards have changed. And they will continue to change. That’s the nature of bodybuilding.

Let’s say the standards for female bodybuilding changes, where broad shoulders are now the ideal physique. Better yet. Let’s say the standard becomes that of a ‘male-like’ physique. Trans bodybuilders will win hands down.

Is that then fair to biological female bodybuilders?

But then again. Your sport could also go the other way. Instead of trans physique, they could return to Cory Everson standards.

Sports may not revolve around individual rights. But sports revolve around what is fair and honest for all participants. And this is why I don’t have any problem with trans division in any sport. Having trans division sets the playing field even for all. I would also support separate divisions for clean and unclean athletes. No problem there either.

[sy2502]

You’re a physique athlete. But an athlete nonetheless.

Your sport has many federations. Again, choices = freedom. And I love freedom being a hardcore anarchist.

The athletes in your sport are judged aesthetically. We both know that over the years the standards have changed. And they will continue to change. That’s the nature of bodybuilding.

Before being a BBer I was a competitive swimmer for years. I am aware BBing is an "anomalous" sport. Swimming on the other hand is pretty straightforward stuff.

Sports may not revolve around individual rights. But sports revolve around what is fair and honest for all participants. And this is why I don’t have any problem with trans division in any sport. Having trans division sets the playing field even for all. I would also support separate divisions for clean and unclean athletes. No problem there either.

I don't have a problem with trans divisions either. I do have a problem with dudes competing against women. And if we had untested divisions where real female and trans would compete against each other, it would still not be fair unless the women shot themselves with so much test that they would effectively become trans themselves, turning the division basically into a trans division.

[Karl_Hungus]

I just wonder, would there be the same outcry if people born as women decided to compete in powerlifting as men? I don’t hear too much about that. It seems to only apply to transitions that give them a physical advantage, and then they invoke “fairness.”

Well of course. We are discussing "fairness" as it relates to competition, so it makes sense that fairness would be invoked when we are talking about competitive advantages. Not sure what you are getting at here.

[Karl_Hungus]

Have you ever seen most of these "competitions"?. They barely have enough competitors to fill any of the 'masters' categories. MANY times, you get a "first" place trophy just for paying and signing up. Add to that, feds with various classes. (Raw, Raw modern...etc), guys will "shop" classes and feds so they can essentially buy "World Records". Hence my comments above why "competing" never really held any interest for myself.

The solution is simple. Just compete in the men's division.

[itsagoodday]

I just wonder, would there be the same outcry if people born as women decided to compete in powerlifting as men? I don’t hear too much about that. It seems to only apply to transitions that give them a physical advantage, and then they invoke “fairness.”

Perhaps they already are. If they're not drawing attention to it, and their results don't stand out (in the same way that male-to-female results have the potential to)... then who would ever know?

What about conjoined twins? Can they compete as one person, or do they have to enter separately.

Lulz. Dunno, where are they conjoined?

Clearly you are uninformed at the lengths of what countries like China or North Korea do to their athletes. They literally begin intense training regimens on kids as young as 5 specifically for the Olympics and have no problems with physical abuse and medical enhancement. If you don’t think this would happen, you are only fooling yourself.

Yes, I'm well aware of that. What I call BS on is your claim that women-born-as-women would have no sports left to compete in, because they would be pushed out by men competing as women. That's outright sensationalism, and yeah, that's a ridiculous thing to say.

As long as there is fame, prestige, money, power, awards, $2 fabric ribbons, WHATEVER on the line, people will try to bend whatever rules exist. That is not exclusive to sports, although there have been scandals at the Olympics since the beginning of the Olympics.

And men, or people with questionable gender, competing as women is really not something new. A quick Google search would show any number of them. Here's one from the 1930's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis...wa_Walasiewicz

She set some records, she won often, but not always. In the 1936 Olympics, she came in second place in the 100 m dash. Ironically, it was the woman who beat her and came in first place that was immediately subjected to a physical gender inspection, which she passed.

[induced_drag]

The solution is simple. Just compete in the men's division.

Na....as I mentioned, I really have zero interest in 'competing'. I have always considered myself my competition.

But my point was more to the idea that if there was a "trans" cat, that a competitor would win by default since so few would show up. So it would just be like many of the masters categories

Like any business, someone will find the niche and fill it. (lets not kid ourselves that all this stuff is pay to play and people make good money printing off padding egos....I mean, "allowing people to get new world records and handing out cheap trophies). Someone will start a "Trans-Friendly" fed and all the people will flock to the meet along with their supporters and everyone can be happy.

[Karl_Hungus]

Na....as I mentioned, I really have zero interest in 'competing'. I have always considered myself my competition.

Oh no....I was suggesting that the solution for trans people was to compete in the men's division. I wasn't telling you to compete I totally understand your way of thinking with respect to competing because I feel the same way.

[Mark1T]

I think a trans class is perfectly reasonable, if they can find enough competitors to support it.

I agree.

[LWW]

In regards to ID and Bando on power lifting contests and trophies, trophies are stupid IMO, but what matters in contests are "offical" lifts.

I've trained much heavier than competing, such as I flipped a 1,000lb tire, I've carried a 850lb super-yoke for 10' but I don't talk about that chit......

.....I've "OFFICALLY" carried a 720lb super-yoke for 55' with zero drops, then in the same event flipped an 800lb tire 4x (that was a yoke/tire flip medely) and I did it at under 200lb, actually under 195lb, but it was the 200lb class. I weighed in the day of.

I tied for 1st in that event, but I only placed 3rd overall.

I also did a grip comp many years ago and didn't place at all, BUT I was very good at one lift that got be top 25 in the world (not country, the WORLD), of course that list has grown since.

Here is a TRUE story-

My highest placing in a strongman contest was 2nd, the trophy was cool looking, that night (right after competing) I went out partying. I was banging a chick on my couch doggy style and the trophy was on a table on the end of the couch, the chick was getting excited and knocked it off, it phucking broke LOL, I just laughed and kept grinding away!!!

[Bando]

2) Whoever is trying to make this a men vs women thing is demented. Oh if women are not inferior why aren't they looking forward to beating the dude? For the same reason that a lightweight boxer doesn't want to have to fight against a heavyweight you dumb phucks. It has nothing to do with inferior and superior, and only mentally deficient people would need this spelled out.

As a HS wrestler bouncing between 119 and 126 I was not allowed to wrestle 145+ guys in meets. In practice I could routinely pin these guys, I found them to be soft even if they had solid winning records. I'm not sure that would apply to boxers, but I know I'm not mentally deficient.

[Bando]

Remind me how much each one of those cost you.... Maybe if you didn't blow so much money buying trophies, you could buy a good car

My Son lifting with his buddies in my basement, and them asking about the trophies gives me more pleasure than a car ever will.

The experience was around $98 each.

[GrouchyUSMC]

Yes, I'm well aware of that. What I call BS on is your claim that women-born-as-women would have no sports left to compete in, because they would be pushed out by men competing as women. That's outright sensationalism, and yeah, that's a ridiculous thing to say.

Actually I just said they would be overrun, not "have no sports left to compete in." I agree, it is a ridiculous thing to say. That's why I didn't say it.

[GrouchyUSMC]

I think a trans class is perfectly reasonable, if they can find enough competitors to support it.

Or just an all inclusive open class. Men vs women, non drug tested, nobody cares what bits you have below, go see who's the top dog out of all of them.

[itsagoodday]

Actually I just said they would be overrun, not "have no sports left to compete in." I agree, it is a ridiculous thing to say. That's why I didn't say it.

Uh huh. See, when you said...

Draw a line in the sand now, or see women’s sports completely overrun with this new breed of “woman”.

I thought you meant...

Draw a line in the sand now, or see women’s sports completely overrun with this new breed of “woman”.

[Mark1T]

I don't know about all ya'll, but I like itsagoodday bringing the real. Damn. We need more threads to bring out the passion. <3 to itsagooddday. Go girl

There are some magnificent women lurking here. My suggestion - not advice - is to either post or start a thread here. If it presses the right buttons, it'll get responses. If it doesn't, it'll be like, who cares.

[GrouchyUSMC]

Uh huh. See, when you said...

I thought you meant...

Reading comprehension is not one of your strong points I see.

Draw a line in the sand now, or see women’s sports completely overrun with this new breed of “woman”.

Actually I just said they would be overrun, not "have no sports left to compete in." I agree, it is a ridiculous thing to say. That's why I didn't say it.

Where did I say women would have no sports left to compete in?