★Early bird fantasy football discussion 2018 ★

[Fiz-iks]

conner is avg 4.4 ypc...bell avg 4 ypc last year

bell is a better pass catching rb but overrated as a traditional rb

i had Bell on my fantasy team last year...I watched a ton of games.

He doesnt have break away speed - his hesitation /stutter step can be beneficial but often times LBs/Safeties get in quick for the stuff


Im sorry but hes overrated AF and a primadonna .

YPC is one notch above useless. Bell is one the best, if not the best players in the NFL. Now if you want to argue that running backs don't matter in the NFL, I'm 100% with you. Steelers likely have the same record with Bell as they do without him. But I'm not going to let someone say Bell is overrated as an individual player. His explosiveness, first-step, stop-go, whatever you want to call it is 2nd to none and his vision is unreal. Combine that with his size and receiving ability and you have one of the best players in the entire league.

[reverse79]

YPC is one notch above useless. Bell is one the best, if not the best players in the NFL. Now if you want to argue that running backs don't matter in the NFL, I'm 100% with you. Steelers likely have the same record with Bell as they do without him. But I'm not going to let someone say Bell is overrated as an individual player. His explosiveness, first-step, stop-go, whatever you want to call it is 2nd to none and his vision is unreal. Combine that with his size and receiving ability and you have one of the best players in the entire league.

Hes worth about 10 million a year...not the 16+ he claims he is


he 100% benefits from AB.

[Jayarbie]

Hes worth about 10 million a year...not the 16+ he claims he is


he 100% benefits from AB.

He's worth as much as any RB in the league. The question is whether ANY RB is worth $16m.

[Fiz-iks]

Hes worth about 10 million a year...not the 16+ he claims he is


he 100% benefits from AB.

I think you're conflating a few things. First, the amount that he is worth should be tied to his actual value to his NFL team, not his individual skill as a player. On this point I agree with you, I'd actually argue that he's not even "worth" the 10 million. In a cap world, the money is better spent on QB, O-line, WR, defense... basically every position except RB. However, what you were previously saying or inferring is that he isn't talented as a player, which I completely disagree with.

[squirrell751]

What is LeVeon's market right now? Nobody knows what he is doing, or if when he comes back the Steelers will even play him. Guy is 2-4 in a league I'm in he has been holding Bell, and now just lost Freeman to IR. I'm 5-1 in 1st with a strong team and a deep bench full of RBs. I also own Conner. Would like to get bell off him.

His Team:

Dalton
Lewis/Allen/Clement/Bell/Freeman(IR)/Powell
Adams/DT/Jones Jr/M. Williams
Ertz/Njoku

My Team:
Wentz/Winston
Gordon/Mixon/Conner/Ingram/Fournette/Jones/Drake
Diggs/Landry/Baldwin
Burton

Thought about trying to get Ertz and Bell off of him for Burton/Ingram/Jones or Burton/Ingram/Drake or Burton/Ingram/Diggs or Baldwin. Offering too little (Replace Ingram with Mixon maybe) or too much? Or should I even bother? If I lose Conner because Bell comes back I won't really be hurting at RB.

Are you aware that Ertz is the top TE right now?

Are you aware that Ertz is leading TE in receptions and yards for TE's right now?

That means at a minimum his price tag is a RB1.

Bells price tag is a mid RB2 and extra.

Ingram + the extra you added for Bell would work, but then you're basically asking Burton for Ertz straight up. Diggs and Baldwin are WR2 at best.

And Bell has to play this year in order to be a FA next year, so he is coming back, it's just unknown how much he'll be used now that Steelers are praising Conner.

i had Bell on my fantasy team last year...I watched a ton of games.

He doesnt have break away speed - his hesitation /stutter step can be beneficial but often times LBs/Safeties get in quick for the stuff


Im sorry but hes overrated AF and a primadonna .

I agree with this and said this recently, I think he benefits way too much on the roster of the Steelers. We've seen plenty of times in history when good RBs get paid on a different team they just don't perform as well. I think Bell know he relies on the Steelers to succeed, which is why he's holding out so he can cash in as much as he can before his ceiling drops.

[Tyler2106]

Truth. That was a massive blow Shazier was elite talent. They are a shell of a defense without him. I really hope he can play again.

I don't understand why Shazier would ever want to play again. I mean, I get that he would want to, but why on earth would you subject yourself to a sport that paralyzed you at one point in your life. I think that should have been a wake up call that there is more to life than football...especially after he's made such an incredible recovery. Be happy that you can walk and function normally in life, don't put yourself in a situation where you can ruin the rest of your life.

/rant

[reverse79]

I think you're conflating a few things. First, the amount that he is worth should be tied to his actual value to his NFL team, not his individual skill as a player. On this point I agree with you, I'd actually argue that he's not even "worth" the 10 million. In a cap world, the money is better spent on QB, O-line, WR, defense... basically every position except RB. However, what you were previously saying or inferring is that he isn't talented as a player, which I completely disagree with.

never said he wasnt talented....hes much more a product of the steelers system than any numbers to consider.


any RB would love to have a guy like AB to distract a defense and couple that with an above average offensive line.....youre going to look good as a RB. Dont see it? Look at Denagelo Williams last year when Bell was suspended...Conner in the same boat this year


I will admit...as a defense, you would obviously care more about Bell than Conner/Williams but its not a HUGE swing .

Cant wait to see Bell on a team like the Colts - where he doesnt have the luxuries he did as a Steeler

[Jayarbie]

Truth. That was a massive blow Shazier was elite talent. They are a shell of a defense without him. I really hope he can play again.

I do, too. I noticed him in the first preseason game of his rookie year. I thought holy crap, I've never seen a LB that fast. I ordered a jersey the night after he utterly dominated the WC game vs the Bengals (the game he blew up Gio then the Bengals lost due to the meltdown at the end by Burfict and Pacman). In the game I went to in Baltimore last year, he has 10 solo tackles, a sack, a FF, and an int, and that doesn't even do justice to the level of dominance.

His issue has always been injuries due to never dialing back his intensity and an almost reckless disregard for his body. I think he actually got hurt last year at the very end of the GB game. There was a play where he threw himself into a tackle and really awkwardly wrenched his back. He walked off gingerly but came back after 1 play, but there was only a couple minutes or so left in the game, so nothing else happened that game.



Skip to 30:50 of this. I think this is where the structural injury actually happened and left his spinal column relatively unprotected for the next compression hit, which was in the first couple mins of the next game.

[Fiz-iks]

never said he wasnt talented....hes much more a product of the steelers system than any numbers to consider.


any RB would love to have a guy like AB to distract a defense and couple that with an above average offensive line.....youre going to look good as a RB. Dont see it? Look at Denagelo Williams last year when Bell was suspended...Conner in the same boat this year


I will admit...as a defense, you would obviously care more about Bell than Conner/Williams but its not a HUGE swing .

Cant wait to see Bell on a team like the Colts - where he doesnt have the luxuries he did as a Steeler

Hang on a second, the posts below are what I was responding to.

conner is avg 4.4 ypc...bell avg 4 ypc last year

bell is a better pass catching rb but overrated as a traditional rb

i had Bell on my fantasy team last year...I watched a ton of games.

He doesnt have break away speed - his hesitation /stutter step can be beneficial but often times LBs/Safeties get in quick for the stuff


Im sorry but hes overrated AF and a primadonna .

You compared YPC (which is useless an indicator of talent) and stated that one of his negatives is that he doesn't have break away speed and that he's "overrated AF". I don't know how you can be one of the best players in the league and be overrated. Do you mean overrated in terms of his value to an actual NFL team? That is the part that I agree with. If the Colts or some other team signs Bell they won't drastically improve as a TEAM, because runningbacks don't matter as much as other positions. However, your comments were about his actual talent as player. Crowell has breakaway speed, Henry has breakaway speed, those guys can't even sniff Bell's talent. His hesitation and ability to explode out a cut is what makes him one of, if not the best players in the NFL. Again, I think you're comparing the team's results and Bell's production, with his actual TALENT as a player, which are two completely different things. Just beacuse Connor or Williams put up similar numbers to Bell doesn't mean they are as talented as Bell, it means that runningbacks don't matter for an actual NFL team.

edit: minor clarifications

[Jayarbie]

I don't understand why Shazier would ever want to play again. I mean, I get that he would want to, but why on earth would you subject yourself to a sport that paralyzed you at one point in your life. I think that should have been a wake up call that there is more to life than football...especially after he's made such an incredible recovery. Be happy that you can walk and function normally in life, don't put yourself in a situation where you can ruin the rest of your life.

/rant

From a football standpoint as a Steelers fan, I hope to see him playing again, but really I hope he follows medical advice and doesn't jeopardize his post-football life in any way, but if the doctors tell him everything is 100% and there is no chance at all that he is at any more risk of another spinal injury than anyone else playing the game, then I hope he can come back to what he was.

[squirrell751]

never said he wasnt talented....hes much more a product of the steelers system than any numbers to consider.


any RB would love to have a guy like AB to distract a defense and couple that with an above average offensive line.....youre going to look good as a RB. Dont see it? Look at Denagelo Williams last year when Bell was suspended...Conner in the same boat this year


I will admit...as a defense, you would obviously care more about Bell than Conner/Williams but its not a HUGE swing .

Cant wait to see Bell on a team like the Colts - where he doesnt have the luxuries he did as a Steeler

Bell fans seem hard nose or stubborn on him. I get that he's good, and I get that none of the past RBs have done as well as him, but people acting like he's some 2k dominant rusher.

If people want to argue that Bell takes away attention from Brown and others, looking at Antonio's stats he seems to be doing on par with his usual years, if not better.

Antonio Brown already has 40 receptions, 478 yards, and 6 TDs through 6 games.

We're not even taking into account JuJu's stats into this and how he has blown up.

All this with James Conner doing just as well as Bell.

From a football standpoint as a Steelers fan, I hope to see him playing again, but really I hope he follows medical advice and doesn't jeopardize his post-football life in any way, but if the doctors tell him everything is 100% and there is no chance at all that he is at any more risk of another spinal injury than anyone else playing the game, then I hope he can come back to what he was.

Steelers fan or not, everyone wants to see him play again. It would show that he had complete recovery.

[Jayarbie]

Steelers fan or not, everyone wants to see him play again. It would show that he had complete recovery.

Apparently not our resident Pats fan, although I guess that's understandable. LOL.

[reverse79]

Hang on a second, the posts below are what I was responding to.






You compared YPC (which is useless) and stated that one of his negatives is that he doesn't have break away speed and that he's "overrated AF". I don't know how you can be one of the best players in the league and be overrated. Do you mean overrated in terms of his value to an actual NFL team? That is the part that I agree with. If the Colts or some other team signs Bell they won't drastically improve as a TEAM, because runningbacks don't matter as much as other positions. However, your comments were about his actual talent as player. Crowell has breakaway speed, Henry has breakaway speed, those guys can't even sniff Bell's talent. His hesitation and ability to explode out a cut is what makes him one of, if not the best players in the NFL. Again, I think you're comparing the team's results and Bell's production, with his actual TALENT as a player, which are two completely different things. Just beacuse Connor or Williams put up similar numbers to Bell doesn't mean they are as talented as Bell, it means that runningbacks don't matter for an actual NFL team.

if you make a 53 man roster in the NFL...you have talent. period.


Obviously how players respond with their talent is a different story. money/politics within the game changes things.

[squirrell751]

Apparently not our resident Pats fan, although I guess that's understandable. LOL.

Football fan or not

Steelers fan or not

Pats fan or not

No one wishes life changing injuries on others. Except maybe Vontaze Burfict or Bill Romanowski

[Fiz-iks]

if you make a 53 man roster in the NFL...you have talent. period.


Obviously how players respond with their talent is a different story. money/politics within the game changes things.

I can't tell if you're being purposely obtuse or if you legitimately don't understand what I'm saying. Obviously, we aren't talking about the talent of NFL players vs the average population.

[Jayarbie]

Football fan or not

Steelers fan or not

Pats fan or not

No one wishes life changing injuries on others. Except maybe Vontaze Burfict or Bill Romanowski

I don't wish life changing injuries even on Burfict. Seeing him KO'd and grasping weakly at Juju's leg (like Mike Tyson after he was KO'd by Buster Douglas) on what should have been a perfectly legal block was all I needed to see.

[Jayarbie]

Switching gears, Fournette and Yeldon are both DNP. Who's on that Jamaal Charles time?

[squirrell751]

I can't tell if you're being purposely obtuse or if you legitimately don't understand what I'm saying. Obviously, we aren't talking about the talent of NFL players vs the average population.

If you want to discuss the sole talent of NFL players, Bell still isn't worth what he's asking for.

For his age at the position he plays, he's not worth it. I believe that the Steelers offered him the right amount for his skillset/talent for his age. If he reports week 10, he will have missed majority of this season at 26 years old.

He turns 27 at February, and we all know that father time is undefeated. He has at most 3 years left to perform the way he's able to perform, but after that it's most likely downhill.

Smart people know and understand that Bell is being greedy, he knows it as well. He was screwed by the Steelers tagging him twice and now is having difficulties signing a long term contract with guaranteed cash.

[Tyler2106]

Apparently not our resident Pats fan, although I guess that's understandable. LOL.

What team I cheer for has nothing to do with Shazier coming back or not.

[reverse79]

If you want to discuss the sole talent of NFL players, Bell still isn't worth what he's asking for.

For his age at the position he plays, he's not worth it. I believe that the Steelers offered him the right amount for his skillset/talent for his age. If he reports week 10, he will have missed majority of this season at 26 years old.

He turns 27 at February, and we all know that father time is undefeated. He has at most 3 years left to perform the way he's able to perform, but after that it's most likely downhill.

Smart people know and understand that Bell is being greedy, he knows it as well. He was screwed by the Steelers tagging him twice and now is having difficulties signing a long term contract with guaranteed cash.

exactly...

devonta freeman is (was) the highest paid RB and hes been on the shelf a handful of times.

RBs are the most volatile(replaceable) positions in the NFL

[dupaloop3611]

greg the leg lead me to fantasy glory!!


and to comment on the bell and freeman talk above: Bell shoulda got his money when it was offered...

[Fiz-iks]

If you want to discuss the sole talent of NFL players, Bell still isn't worth what he's asking for.

For his age at the position he plays, he's not worth it. I believe that the Steelers offered him the right amount for his skillset/talent for his age. If he reports week 10, he will have missed majority of this season at 26 years old.

He turns 27 at February, and we all know that father time is undefeated. He has at most 3 years left to perform the way he's able to perform, but after that it's most likely downhill.

Smart people know and understand that Bell is being greedy, he knows it as well. He was screwed by the Steelers tagging him twice and now is having difficulties signing a long term contract with guaranteed cash.

Again, you're also conflating his individual talent with his value to the team. Of course, he's not worth what he's asking for, that was my whole point, no running back is worth $10+ million a season when you can have Williams or Connor step in a put up the same production for pennies on the dollar. You guys are equating production, value, and talent. Which are three separate things. Bell can be the the most talented runningback in the league and not worth $10 million dollars a season, but he's still the most talented runningback in the league (or one of them).

[dhawkeye1980]

Switching gears, Fournette and Yeldon are both DNP. Who's on that Jamaal Charles time?

Sure on that 1.0ypc time

[squirrell751]

Again, you're also conflating his individual talent with his value to the team. Of course, he's not worth what he's asking for, that was my whole point, no running back is worth $10+ million a season when you can have Williams or Connor step in a put up the same production for pennies on the dollar. You guys are equating production, value, and talent. Which are three separate things. Bell can be the the most talented runningback in the league and not worth $10 million dollars a season, but he's still the most talented runningback in the league (or one of them).

Truthfully I don't think anyone is understanding what you're arguing about.

If we're not evaluating a players production, value, and talent to the prospect of a team then I have no idea what's going on.

Bell got screwed by being tagged twice, he's asking for a contract on the wrong side of his 20's, and no team values him what he's asking for, which is why he's not playing for anyone.

Steelers still win in the end because they got Conner producing at Bell's production for the first half of the season at a fraction of the cost, then can use a fresh Bell for the second half if they want to make a playoff push.

Bell lost a long time ago, he should have been doing what he's doing now last year.

He could be the best RB in the league, that opinion is subjective, but QBs are the only ones worth investing the way Bell is asking for. That's non-debatable.

There's literally no more point in talking about this until Bell makes a move, it's beating a dead horse at this point.

[Jayarbie]

Truthfully I don't think anyone is understanding what you're arguing about.

If we're not evaluating a players production, value, and talent to the prospect of a team then I have no idea what's going on.

Bell got screwed by being tagged twice, he's asking for a contract on the wrong side of his 20's, and no team values him what he's asking for, which is why he's not playing for anyone.

Steelers still win in the end because they got Conner producing at Bell's production for the first half of the season at a fraction of the cost, then can use a fresh Bell for the second half if they want to make a playoff push.

Bell lost a long time ago, he should have been doing what he's doing now last year.

He could be the best RB in the league, that opinion is subjective, but QBs are the only ones worth investing the way Bell is asking for. That's non-debatable.

There's literally no more point in talking about this, it's beating a dead horse at this point.

No, Bell won when Gurley got his extension. What he was asking for was a market-making contract and the Steelers weren't willing to be the ones to jack up the market that much. Now, he's not, he's merely asking for what Gurley already got, and he's going to get it (maybe not from the Steelers, but he will get it). Gurley's extension was signed after the deadline to negotiate with tagged players. If it had been before and the market had been set in time for them to negotiate, I think the Steelers probably would have offered him the same deal.

[Jayarbie]

Peterman benched for Derek Anderson. LOL, why do they even keep him on the roster?

[EthanHun]

winston or brees this week

[squirrell751]

No, Bell won when Gurley got his extension. What he was asking for was a market-making contract and the Steelers weren't willing to be the ones to jack up the market that much. Now, he's not, he's merely asking for what Gurley already got, and he's going to get it (maybe not from the Steelers, but he will get it). Gurley's extension was signed after the deadline to negotiate with tagged players. If it had been before and the market had been set in time for them to negotiate, I think the Steelers probably would have offered him the same deal.

It seems that you are too biased on Bell to see the other side of the argument.

Bell was offered some 5 year contract? Ben Roethlisberger is 36, he's not lasting any more than 3 years, which is where Bell would being to see his production decline, and then Steelers would have a problem at two big offensive positions. Let's not forget that AB is aging as well, he's 30 or 31 or so I believe.

I think you're only looking after Bell, all your arguments have only stood in his corner while neglecting to take into account the Steelers.

With the way that Conner is producing, it doesn't seem wise to invest into the way Bell is asking for. I could agree with you on Bell getting paid somewhere, I never said he wouldn't. I was merely saying that from the best interest of the Steelers it wouldn't be smart to pay him.

With the way Conner is panning out and the future outlook of the Steelers, I think Steelers won ultimately in the end, and that's not saying Bell isn't going to get paid what he wants or more than what he wants.

The contract between a player and a team goes both ways, and the fact that Bell isn't playing for anyone is because both parties haven't seen a mutual beneficiary interest on their terms.

Again, beating a dead horse. Nothing much has changed since July, besides Conners production, which only helps the Steelers side showing that they don't need to commit to Bell as much as they thought.

[dhawkeye1980]

Why is there a bell/connor fight going on? If bell comes back itll be 50/50 time share

Book it

[Jayarbie]

It seems that you are too biased on Bell to see the other side of the argument.

Bell was offered some 5 year contract? Ben Roethlisberger is 36, he's not lasting any more than 3 years, which is where Bell would being to see his production decline, and then Steelers would have a problem at two big offensive positions. Let's not forget that AB is aging as well, he's 30 or 31 or so I believe.

I think you're only looking after Bell, all your arguments have only stood in his corner while neglecting to take into account the Steelers.

With the way that Conner is producing, it doesn't seem wise to invest into the way Bell is asking for. I could agree with you on Bell getting paid somewhere, I never said he wouldn't. I was merely saying that from the best interest of the Steelers it wouldn't be smart to pay him.

With the way Conner is panning out and the future outlook of the Steelers, I think Steelers won ultimately in the end, and that's not saying Bell isn't going to get paid what he wants or more than what he wants.

The contract between a player and a team goes both ways, and the fact that Bell isn't playing for anyone is because both parties haven't seen a mutual beneficiary interest on their terms.

Again, beating a dead horse. Nothing much has changed since July, besides Conners production, which only helps the Steelers side showing that they don't need to commit to Bell as much as they thought.

Again, at this point, I'm not sure that it will be the Steelers that pay Bell, but he will get a contract similar to Gurley's from some team. Therefore, he won when Gurley reset the market for him. It also allowed him to stage his holdout. Last year, he came back and played the whole season because he had to prove he was worth a contract $5m above the going rate for elite backs. He no longer has to do that, he only has to ask for what someone has already gotten, which is a lot easier to do.