The Official Powerlifting and Strongman Family Appreciation Thread: Part XVIII

[UberAlles]

After watching the other video and seeing just how high he is bringing his butt off the bench, I take back my previous stance, he is essentially doing a three board decline bench, which would allow for dramatically more weight being used

i dont have access to boards or a slingshot so im guessing this would make a great overload bench accessory. i notice the japanese incorporate this frequently into their training (butt off bench overload)

[isaku900]

probably try to get to the gym early and not wait for anyone else, just commandeer a rack and all the plates and squat quick.

[LessThanLuke]

If Muscle bound trannies are your thing, go right ahead. However, you may be disappointed that Kroc said he is a lesbian trapped in a man's body.



If only.



Bingo.

Don't use the word trannie. K thanks.

[LessThanLuke]

That's what I've been saying. Then all my hipster friends are like "oooh no stop being an idiot you should honor what she identifies herself as blah blah blah".

If he/she wants to identify himself as a female, that's totally fine. Don't expect everyone to call you a female when you're biologically a man. It's like if I was fuked in the head and thought I was a coffee mug and people told me no you're a human not mug then I'd be like fuk you I'm a coffee mug.

Comparing transgendered people to someone who is "****ed in the head" nice one.

[darren.dugan]

yeah, i'm gonna make a ****ing ruling.

if someone decides to call refer to Janae as "her"....they can ****ing do that.

Was just disagreeing with a pronoun. I think it is silly to call Kroc a her for the reasons I stated earlier, you and others don't. Fair enough, I won't go out of my way to argue that point again.

... I feel like people feel like they deserve to be considered special or something, but your condition, state of mind, or whatever doesn't make you anymore special than little ole basic me...

My feels exactly, and I suppose it's why I get riled up about it. The whole Jenner espy awards/tv show and all these interviews Kroc is doing seems more like a cry for attention than anything else. Two guys that had lost their places in the spotlight suddenly get it back because they get implants and dress up like a woman.

If your different is the subway guy, well go jump off a cliff cause your different sucks and WE ALL AGREE ON THAT.

Devil's advocate: But couldn't it be argued that he is just a 13yo boy trapped in a man's body?

(but he really should jump off a cliff)

If Matt/Janae has not had a sex change operation, is clearly not taking female hormones, but quite the opposite has more testosterone running through his veins than any natural male powerlifter on the planet--

--what on earth would enable him to compete as a woman in any federation? I'm fairly certain powerlifting competition categories are not separated by gender, but by sex?

Because whatever fed that would do that would instantly be the most tolerant fed out there.

[NaturalFTW]

who cares if matt wants to be janae. It doesn't affect our lives. My only problem is he could've picked a better name than Janae

[breathinglife]

Because whatever fed that would do that would instantly be the most tolerant fed out there.

It will be interesting to see the whole transgender issue played out in sports, because this is where MtF transgenders could easily wipe the female record books clean if competing as women.

I expect at some point, the bifurcation between sex and gender will be pronounced to the point where sex, not gender, will be the determining factor for sports, women's-only scholarships, etc.

[martin_mathers]

To bring it back to the topic of powerlifting... and continue with transgender discussion:
http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...oc-kroczaleski

Janae says, "I'm still deciding whether or not to compete as a woman."

If Matt/Janae has not had a sex change operation, is clearly not taking female hormones, but quite the opposite has more testosterone running through his veins than any natural male powerlifter on the planet--

--what on earth would enable him to compete as a woman in any federation? I'm fairly certain powerlifting competition categories are not separated by gender, but by sex?

EDIT: Read the article, though. It does sound like he is aware of the problems with competing as a woman, but I really think it is an interesting issue, as it'd only take a few MtF transgenders to beat every single female record on the books.

I listened to a few interviews he did and he sounded like he didn't want to compete as a female because he thought that would hurt the sport.

Comparing transgendered people to someone who is "****ed in the head" nice one.

I didn't say he was fuked in the head. I said if I was fuked in the head. Because anyone who would call himself a coffee mug is fuked in the head. Whether people think if he is "fuked in the head" or not is again, totally up to them. Of course, that would be a rather insulting way of saying "mentally ill".

[breathinglife]

who cares if matt wants to be janae. It doesn't affect our lives. My only problem is he could've picked a better name than Janae

Well, probably other female powerlifters would be a bit miffed to be competing with a guy who held all-time WRs in male powerlifting. It would affect their lives.

[LessThanLuke]

To bring it back to the topic of powerlifting... and continue with transgender discussion:
http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...oc-kroczaleski

Janae says, "I'm still deciding whether or not to compete as a woman."

If Matt/Janae has not had a sex change operation, is clearly not taking female hormones, but quite the opposite has more testosterone running through his veins than any natural male powerlifter on the planet--

--what on earth would enable him to compete as a woman in any federation? I'm fairly certain powerlifting competition categories are not separated by gender, but by sex?

EDIT: Read the article, though. It does sound like he is aware of the problems with competing as a woman, but I really think it is an interesting issue, as it'd only take a few MtF transgenders to beat every single female record on the books.

I really don't think you realise what two years of hormonal treatments(the length the IOC requires before you can compete as a female) to completely transition him would do to his strength levels... he would not be smashing world records.

[NaturalFTW]

Well, probably other female powerlifters would be a bit miffed to be competing with a guy who held all-time WRs in male powerlifting. It would affect their lives.

Have no idea why I didn't think of that lmao....

[darren.dugan]

I really don't think you realise what two years of hormonal treatments(the length the IOC requires before you can compete as a female) to completely transition him would do to his strength levels... he would not be smashing world records.

How does the IOC come up with such an arbitrary requirement and how would they monitor it?

[isaku900]

If Matt/Janae has not had a sex change operation, is clearly not taking female hormones, but quite the opposite has more testosterone running through his veins than any natural male powerlifter on the planet--

--what on earth would enable him to compete as a woman in any federation? I'm fairly certain powerlifting competition categories are not separated by gender, but by sex?

there's starting to be protocols for it, the IOC allowed transgenders to compete back in 2004, requires a certain number of years of hormone and other therapies.

there's also controversial rules in IAAF (track and field) requiring some women who have hypoandrogenism (naturally producing male levels of testosterone) to take medications to reduce their testosterone levels so they can compete.

seems pretty ****ed up to me.

or we could require chromo****l testing in powerlifting and y'all can hand wring and whinge about XXY and XY-androgen negative males and females! that'd be better.

It will be interesting to see the whole transgender issue played out in sports, because this is where MtF transgenders could easily wipe the female record books clean if competing as women.

I expect at some point, the bifurcation between sex and gender will be pronounced to the point where sex, not gender, will be the determining factor for sports, women's-only scholarships, etc.

will become? how about was the standard and has since been discarded.....somewhat.

look up gender verification in the IOC.

chromo****l testing was required until the 90s in olympic and world competition.

in fact it was a good way to disqualify your competition right before a big championship, because they're suspended on an anonymous complaint and it takes months of testing and verification and/or treatment before they're cleared!!!

[michael_xyz]

I don't think there's anything wrong with being neutral to the situation and not necessarily supportive. However, I'd hope that your laissez-faire attitude meant that if there was ever a vote on letting this be a "thing" or not, you'd be supportive of it.

Like you don't need to be out there supporting gay marriage, holding a banner up. You can not care much about it at all if you wish. But hopefully you're intelligent enough to support it if there was a vote on it, say.

That's the only way you support people's freedoms to do what they want as long as it doesn't harm anyone else.

[LessThanLuke]

How does the IOC come up with such an arbitrary requirement and how would they monitor it?

International Olympic Committee (IOC), the governing body charged with overseeing Olympic competition and those events leading up to the Games, became the first athletic body to adopt a policy of inclusion regarding transgender athletes. The IOC’s policy says only those who have:
1. undergone sex reassignment surgery
2. had hormone treatments for at least two years, and
3. received legal recognition of their transitioned sex
can participate consistent with their gender identities (IOC, 2003).

I am sure that the time perioid is far from arbitary and was decided by someone a lot smarter than you or I.

[breathinglife]

I really don't think you realise what two years of hormonal treatments(the length the IOC requires before you can compete as a female) to completely transition him would do to his strength levels... he would not be smashing world records.

Since when has powerlifting been sanctioned in any way by IOC? Outside of paralympics powerlifting?

[JamesG6626]

You can have surgeries and hormone therapy, but that is not going to change your physical history from male to female. It isn't anywhere near my area of knowledge but I'd be surprised if you lose all adaptations obtained as a male, which wouldn't otherwise have been possible as a female, when you 'become female'. I mean just because hormonal markers put you in the range of female levels, I don't think that makes it even competition within the sex. Again, I'd just be surprised if that was the case. I claim nothing and am not really familiar with the history of trans athletes.

[darren.dugan]

...do what they want as long as it doesn't harm anyone else.

Word. My jimmies may get rustled by stuff that in my opinion is not right, but I'm never going to say you don't have the right to do it just because I don't like it if it is not violating anyone else's rights. I will also never certainly say "There oughta be a law!" about anything in that regard.

[breathinglife]

in fact it was a good way to disqualify your competition right before a big championship, because they're suspended on an anonymous complaint and it takes months of testing and verification and/or treatment before they're cleared!!!

No, I'm quite aware of all of that and the controversies over time. But we aren't here talking about transgenders who have had hormone replacement therapy.

My question, (and part of the reason I anticipated a shift of sorts), is this:
What will happen if people complain of being forced to medicate themselves in order to validate their transgender identity? Is Janae not a "true" transgender because of a lack of hormone replacement therapy? Such IOC sanctions certainly imply that. I don't think the transgender community will be happy with that in the long run--being forced to take hormones in order to legitimate their gender identification, and compete in the gender division with which they identify.

EDIT: Just to clarify, most of the transgenders I know have not undergone hormone replacement therapy or sex change operations, but they still want to be treated as the gender with which they identify. So, a MtF will want to be called "she" despite not having gone through 2 years of hormone replacement. That doesn't surprise me. I think transgenders will find those Olympic regs offensive in the long run.

[darren.dugan]

International Olympic Committee (IOC), the governing body charged with overseeing Olympic competition and those events leading up to the Games, became the first athletic body to adopt a policy of inclusion regarding transgender athletes. The IOC’s policy says only those who have:
1. undergone sex reassignment surgery
2. had hormone treatments for at least two years, and
3. received legal recognition of their transitioned sex
can participate consistent with their gender identities (IOC, 2003).

I am sure that the time perioid is far from arbitary and was decided by someone a lot smarter than you or I.

Kind of dodged both of my questions there but ok.

Since when has powerlifting been sanctioned in any way by IOC? Outside of paralympics powerlifting?

Good point, though I supposed the IPF would roll with the IOC stuff since they seem to want to move in that direction.

[michael_xyz]

You can have surgeries and hormone therapy, but that is not going to change your physical history from male to female. It isn't anywhere near my area of knowledge but I'd be surprised if you lose all adaptations obtained as a male, which wouldn't otherwise have been possible as a female, when you 'become female'. I mean just because hormonal markers put you in the range of female levels, I don't think that makes it even competition within the sex. Again, I'd just be surprised if that was the case. I claim nothing and am not really familiar with the history of trans athletes.

No offence, and you may even be right, but your post reminds me of this image:



As Luke said, I'm really assuming there was some intelligent basis for this.

[breathinglife]

Good point, though I supposed the IPF would roll with the IOC stuff since they seem to want to move in that direction.

Probably so, but then again--do we really think Kroc would be anywhere near the IPF?

I predict this will become an issue on a large, media-publicized scale, first in sports where it can be debated, not in the Olympics. Then, once a small fed in a small sport lets a transgender compete without years of forced hormone therapy, the IOC will be behind the times, close-minded, and discriminatory. And they will have to formulate a response.

[breathinglife]

As Luke said, I'm really assuming there was some intelligent basis for this.

Yes, of course there is--but will that basis satisfy the trans community? Will they be content to be forced into 2 years of difficult hormone replacement therapy just for even the chance to compete with what the IOC considers "normal" cisgendered athletes? Or will they see that as discriminatory?

[breathinglife]

I apologize if I am rustling any jimmies. Again, I'm a bit of a debater, and I don't easily have emotions flair, so I forget that some people are easily offended.

Basically, my position is this: if I were a transgender and I were required to complete 2 years of medical therapy just to compete when other athletes could compete as they liked--I'd probably feel like that was discriminatory. And I can almost certainly guarantee you that many in the trans community would feel the same.

[JamesG6626]

No offence, and you may even be right, but your post reminds me of this image:

None taken In today's world there's a pic with words for every situation, even though I don't think it really applies here.

[martin_mathers]

Is this correct cause I'm ignorant:
A transgender is a man that considers himself as woman/a woman that considers herself as man but hasn't undergone any reassignment surgery and hormone treatments. A transsexual is a male that has fully transitioned and undergone surgery and treatments to become female or the other way.

[LessThanLuke]

I think transgenders will find those Olympic regs offensive in the long run.

None that I know would find it offensive because they are also realists and understand what is fair..

[isaku900]

Yes, of course there is--but will that basis satisfy the trans community? Will they be content to be forced into 2 years of difficult hormone replacement therapy just for even the chance to compete with what the IOC considers "normal" cisgendered athletes? Or will they see that as discriminatory?

i'm sure the trans community would argue it is discriminatory.
the IOC/sport federations would argue that agreeing to be a competitive athlete is discriminatory and requires sacrifices and behavior outside of norms to comply with the rules of competition.
it would play out in ICAS, and likely due to the politics of international sport, ICAS would side with the federations.

[breathinglife]

Is this correct cause I'm ignorant:
A transgender is a man that considers himself as woman/a woman that considers herself as man but hasn't undergone any reassignment surgery and hormone treatments. A transsexual is a male that has fully transitioned and undergone surgery and treatments to become female or the other way.

It depends on who you ask, but this has a fairly detailed explanation of different terms: http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender

[LessThanLuke]

Kind of dodged both of my questions there but ok.

I don't work ifor the IOC so no idea how they came up with it. The monitoring question doesn't really need answering... because you know they would just ask for evidence.