Let's talk - Natural Mr Olympia gives advice

[1983Warrior]

Hi John Hansen,

what do you think about the pump, is it a part of musclebuilding?

[Natural_O]

Hi John Hansen,

what do you think about the pump, is it a part of musclebuilding?

Yes, getting blood into the muscles during training is a part of the muscle building process. Making the muscle fibers thicker from using more resistance for the right amount of repetitions (6-10 reps) is one of the keys to building bigger muscles. However, getting blood into the muscles (the pump) helps to increase the capillaries and the sarcoplasm of the muscle cells. You really need both (heavy resistance and a good pump) for maximum growth.

[Dream83]

Hey John,

Do you think that behind the neck presses are safe exercise when done like 5 x 5? I do them in a power rack and adjust the rack so that I can only lower the bar to my top of ear level and I don't feel any pain or discomfort at any point. It just bugs me that a lot of people say that you will eventually fu*k your shoulders when you press behind the neck. Can you give me some peace of mind to press behind neck worry free?

[Natural_O]

Hey John,

Do you think that behind the neck presses are safe exercise when done like 5 x 5? I do them in a power rack and adjust the rack so that I can only lower the bar to my top of ear level and I don't feel any pain or discomfort at any point. It just bugs me that a lot of people say that you will eventually fu*k your shoulders when you press behind the neck. Can you give me some peace of mind to press behind neck worry free?

I used to do heavy press behind the neck presses when I was younger. I probably stopped in my early 40's when I strained my rotator cuff. If you are only going that low, it should definitely be safer. Just be careful going too heavy because you are putting the shoulders in an uncomfortable position. I like the exercise though because I feel it gets the side and front delts more than the regular barbell presses. I think it would be a good idea to warm up with some dumbbells before doing the barbell press behind the neck.

[CropDusterMan]

If that guys Natural, then I'm expecting to stick my head out the window and see pigs fly.

[Natural_O]

If that guys Natural, then I'm expecting to stick my head out the window and see pigs fly.

Watch out for the flying piggies.

[HOCH]

Watch out for the flying piggies.

To be fair, you did use steroids at one point in your career to "retain muscle" while you were dieting. You may have not used them in a long time, but some would say this doesn't mean you are natural. I not trying to be a jerk; just stating facts. A lot of people would define natural as never using hormones of any kind.

[Natural_O]

To be fair, you did use steroids at one point in your career to "retain muscle" while you were dieting. You may have not used them in a long time, but some would say this doesn't mean you are natural. I not trying to be a jerk; just stating facts. A lot of people would define natural as never using hormones of any kind.

That seems to be the new definition of natural. When I competed in my first natural contest, the contest requirements were one year drug free. As I continued to compete, the time for being drug free went up to 5 years and then 7 years drug free. What you may not know is that I was 230 pounds natural at 21 years old. When I started training at 14 years old, I was only 135 pounds so I increased my bodyweight by almost 100 pounds before I ever did anything. If you look at bodybuilders who use steroids to put on muscle, when they get off the steroids, their weight and muscle mass always goes down. That did not happen to me because I did not use the drugs to put on muscle. When I competed in 1986 in the NPC Jr. Nationals, I competed with another competitor who was about 5'10" and he weighed 215 pounds and was one of the most promising athletes in the show. I was 5'8" and weighed 200 pounds. Six years later, when I won the Natural Mr. Universe, I weighed 198 pounds. This other competitor had also decided to compete natural and he also won a natural contest in 1992 weighing only 185 pounds. That's a 30 pound difference when he went drug free. My weight was a 2 pound difference. That's the difference when you use the drugs to build muscle and when you build the muscle naturally. In my opinion, the drugs only work when you take them. When you stop taking them, you go back to what you were before. Do the drugs work? Absolutely! Do they keep on working 2 years later, 5 years later, 10 years later, 15 years later? Do they permanently change your muscles forever? In my opinion, no. To be fair, you also don't know me. You don't know how many years I've been working out and how hard I train. You have no idea how many calories and how much food I was eating for YEARS to add mass and get bigger. It's very easy to sit behind a key board and play the bodybuilding expert and make declarations on "oh, this guy is all drugs. That's why he's so big, because he used drugs in the past". You also may not know that, after winning my first Natural Mr. Universe in 1992, I made a new goal for myself to be bigger and better naturally than when I used steroids. In 1995, I competed at 204 pounds and then one year later, I won the Natural Mr. Universe in the pro division weighing 208 pounds. Was that a result of me using steroids 10 years earlier? Or was it because I was eating 4500 calories every day in the off season, training very heavy and hard, doing 10 sets of squats in the off season (at one point doing 10 sets with 405 for 6)? I have a lot of desire for this sport and I pushed myself extremely hard for decades, not just a couple years, in order to be successful. When I started winning titles and I was featured in a few magazines like Ironman Magazine, Muscular Development and Muscle Mag International, I was always very honest when I was asked if I used steroids in the past. In my opinion, the small amount I used was not responsible for building my physique. The years of training naturally, the amount of food I was eating, the desire to lift more weight in order to get bigger, those the main factors responsible for the physique I developed. That's why I was always very honest about what I did. Compare that to many other natural bodybuilders who claim to be "life time drug free" when they aren't even drug free when they do the interview or when they compete onstage. You may not be a jerk but you're jumping to conclusions without having the facts. Like I said, you have no idea what I went through to get the physique I have and the physique I had when I won those shows. You weren't at the gym, you didn't see me train and you didn't see the dedication I put into my training and diet.

[Dream83]

Hey John,

I wanted to ask you about lagging body parts, or body parts that you would like to specialize in. I would like to improve my chest, I'm currently training 4 days a week, chest and tri's on mondays, legs and abs on tuesdays, calves, delts and traps on wednesdays and back and bi's on thursdays. Should I train my chest twice a week and how where should I put the extra chest work in that routine?

Thanks a lot!

[HOCH]

That seems to be the new definition of natural. When I competed in my first natural contest, the contest requirements were one year drug free. As I continued to compete, the time for being drug free went up to 5 years and then 7 years drug free. What you may not know is that I was 230 pounds natural at 21 years old. When I started training at 14 years old, I was only 135 pounds so I increased my bodyweight by almost 100 pounds before I ever did anything. If you look at bodybuilders who use steroids to put on muscle, when they get off the steroids, their weight and muscle mass always goes down. That did not happen to me because I did not use the drugs to put on muscle. When I competed in 1986 in the NPC Jr. Nationals, I competed with another competitor who was about 5'10" and he weighed 215 pounds and was one of the most promising athletes in the show. I was 5'8" and weighed 200 pounds. Six years later, when I won the Natural Mr. Universe, I weighed 198 pounds. This other competitor had also decided to compete natural and he also won a natural contest in 1992 weighing only 185 pounds. That's a 30 pound difference when he went drug free. My weight was a 2 pound difference. That's the difference when you use the drugs to build muscle and when you build the muscle naturally. In my opinion, the drugs only work when you take them. When you stop taking them, you go back to what you were before. Do the drugs work? Absolutely! Do they keep on working 2 years later, 5 years later, 10 years later, 15 years later? Do they permanently change your muscles forever? In my opinion, no. To be fair, you also don't know me. You don't know how many years I've been working out and how hard I train. You have no idea how many calories and how much food I was eating for YEARS to add mass and get bigger. It's very easy to sit behind a key board and play the bodybuilding expert and make declarations on "oh, this guy is all drugs. That's why he's so big, because he used drugs in the past". You also may not know that, after winning my first Natural Mr. Universe in 1992, I made a new goal for myself to be bigger and better naturally than when I used steroids. In 1995, I competed at 204 pounds and then one year later, I won the Natural Mr. Universe in the pro division weighing 208 pounds. Was that a result of me using steroids 10 years earlier? Or was it because I was eating 4500 calories every day in the off season, training very heavy and hard, doing 10 sets of squats in the off season (at one point doing 10 sets with 405 for 6)? I have a lot of desire for this sport and I pushed myself extremely hard for decades, not just a couple years, in order to be successful. When I started winning titles and I was featured in a few magazines like Ironman Magazine, Muscular Development and Muscle Mag International, I was always very honest when I was asked if I used steroids in the past. In my opinion, the small amount I used was not responsible for building my physique. The years of training naturally, the amount of food I was eating, the desire to lift more weight in order to get bigger, those the main factors responsible for the physique I developed. That's why I was always very honest about what I did. Compare that to many other natural bodybuilders who claim to be "life time drug free" when they aren't even drug free when they do the interview or when they compete onstage. You may not be a jerk but you're jumping to conclusions without having the facts. Like I said, you have no idea what I went through to get the physique I have and the physique I had when I won those shows. You weren't at the gym, you didn't see me train and you didn't see the dedication I put into my training and diet.

John, I honestly wasn't attacking you. I just think you should clarify, as different people have different definitions as to what constitutes "natural". I am sure you worked very hard. I do not dispute that. I am not "sitting behind a keyboard playing bodybuilding expert." I have an impressive physique in my own right; I do it for myself and don't have the desire to compete, but have 20" arms naturally (no hormones).227389_562096806870_5962956_n.jpg

There is a picture of my back if you doubt my claims, not that it really matters. I also used to train with Layne Norton in college, and I think he can attest to my intensity. Ok? But I wasn't attacking you.

[Natural_O]

Hey John,

I wanted to ask you about lagging body parts, or body parts that you would like to specialize in. I would like to improve my chest, I'm currently training 4 days a week, chest and tri's on mondays, legs and abs on tuesdays, calves, delts and traps on wednesdays and back and bi's on thursdays. Should I train my chest twice a week and how where should I put the extra chest work in that routine?

Thanks a lot!

Yes, I think adding a second workout for lagging bodyparts is a good idea. I've noticed that many times lagging bodyparts seem to have more red muscle fibers than white muscle fibers and they may not respond well to the traditional way of training (heavy weights, 6-10 reps). Adding another workout that takes a different approach (supersetting two exercises, doing higher reps, using more time under tension, etc) may help you to make progress compared to just training heavy once a week. I would try and do the second workout 3 days after the first workout so you have enough time to recuperate from the heavy session.

[intensebro]

That seems to be the new definition of natural. When I competed in my first natural contest, the contest requirements were one year drug free. As I continued to compete, the time for being drug free went up to 5 years and then 7 years drug free. What you may not know is that I was 230 pounds natural at 21 years old. When I started training at 14 years old, I was only 135 pounds so I increased my bodyweight by almost 100 pounds before I ever did anything. If you look at bodybuilders who use steroids to put on muscle, when they get off the steroids, their weight and muscle mass always goes down. That did not happen to me because I did not use the drugs to put on muscle. When I competed in 1986 in the NPC Jr. Nationals, I competed with another competitor who was about 5'10" and he weighed 215 pounds and was one of the most promising athletes in the show. I was 5'8" and weighed 200 pounds. Six years later, when I won the Natural Mr. Universe, I weighed 198 pounds. This other competitor had also decided to compete natural and he also won a natural contest in 1992 weighing only 185 pounds. That's a 30 pound difference when he went drug free. My weight was a 2 pound difference. That's the difference when you use the drugs to build muscle and when you build the muscle naturally. In my opinion, the drugs only work when you take them. When you stop taking them, you go back to what you were before. Do the drugs work? Absolutely! Do they keep on working 2 years later, 5 years later, 10 years later, 15 years later? Do they permanently change your muscles forever? In my opinion, no. To be fair, you also don't know me. You don't know how many years I've been working out and how hard I train. You have no idea how many calories and how much food I was eating for YEARS to add mass and get bigger. It's very easy to sit behind a key board and play the bodybuilding expert and make declarations on "oh, this guy is all drugs. That's why he's so big, because he used drugs in the past". You also may not know that, after winning my first Natural Mr. Universe in 1992, I made a new goal for myself to be bigger and better naturally than when I used steroids. In 1995, I competed at 204 pounds and then one year later, I won the Natural Mr. Universe in the pro division weighing 208 pounds. Was that a result of me using steroids 10 years earlier? Or was it because I was eating 4500 calories every day in the off season, training very heavy and hard, doing 10 sets of squats in the off season (at one point doing 10 sets with 405 for 6)? I have a lot of desire for this sport and I pushed myself extremely hard for decades, not just a couple years, in order to be successful. When I started winning titles and I was featured in a few magazines like Ironman Magazine, Muscular Development and Muscle Mag International, I was always very honest when I was asked if I used steroids in the past. In my opinion, the small amount I used was not responsible for building my physique. The years of training naturally, the amount of food I was eating, the desire to lift more weight in order to get bigger, those the main factors responsible for the physique I developed. That's why I was always very honest about what I did. Compare that to many other natural bodybuilders who claim to be "life time drug free" when they aren't even drug free when they do the interview or when they compete onstage. You may not be a jerk but you're jumping to conclusions without having the facts. Like I said, you have no idea what I went through to get the physique I have and the physique I had when I won those shows. You weren't at the gym, you didn't see me train and you didn't see the dedication I put into my training and diet.

You're trying to convince yourself way harder than you are anyone else and it's obvious. This is the most defensive I've ever seen anyone get on the forum, let alone a "professional". You just wrote a book going off on a guy that didn't even try to have a go of you. He just made a comment that you turned into a massive insult and then rambled for so long it makes the stuff Kai Greene says make sense in comparison. Unreal.

You did steroids. You were not natural, you are not natural. You did drugs for the same reason every single other bodybuilder in history has used drugs. You can type until your arms fall off it's not going to undo what you, yourself, knowingly did.

Stop trying to tear people apart. You rip in to this guy saying he has no idea, he's just typing behind a keyboard, you're being downright insulting.

Your obnoxious rants about how natural you are, are more of an insult to the natural bodybuilding community than anything else I have seen on this website. 50 years old and still typing books trying to justify decisions you made. If you were really at peace, you wouldn't feel the need to go off on people the way you do.

[bic_staedtler]

You're trying to convince yourself way harder than you are anyone else and it's obvious. This is the most defensive I've ever seen anyone get on the forum, let alone a "professional". You just wrote a book going off on a guy that didn't even try to have a go of you. He just made a comment that you turned into a massive insult and then rambled for so long it makes the stuff Kai Greene says make sense in comparison. Unreal.

You did steroids. You were not natural, you are not natural. You did drugs for the same reason every single other bodybuilder in history has used drugs. You can type until your arms fall off it's not going to undo what you, yourself, knowingly did.

Stop trying to tear people apart. You rip in to this guy saying he has no idea, he's just typing behind a keyboard, you're being downright insulting.

Your obnoxious rants about how natural you are, are more of an insult to the natural bodybuilding community than anything else I have seen on this website. 50 years old and still typing books trying to justify decisions you made. If you were really at peace, you wouldn't feel the need to go off on people the way you do.

Dude, why are YOU trying to stir the pot? Ain't got nothing better else to do? Rather than try to bait and troll a guy who's achieved more in bodybuilding than you ever will, do as you suggest and move along. If you feel you need to be defender of the board, become a mod. There's nothing John said that was defensive, but you already know that from your troll answer. "Tearing apart"?...you need to check yourself, dude. John didn't "rip" into anyone, and your four silly little paragraphs did nothing than expose your own envy. The person he replied to seems to have understood this, yet you somehow didn't. Your trollish behaviour guarantees nobody will take you seriously, so enjoy that. The only one being obnoxious is you. John gave a straight-up, honest explanation that makes perfect sense. You just come off like a baiting troll having a meltdown.

That is all.

[intensebro]

Dude, why are YOU trying to stir the pot? Ain't got nothing better else to do? Rather than try to bait and troll a guy who's achieved more in bodybuilding than you ever will, do as you suggest and move along. If you feel you need to be defender of the board, become a mod. There's nothing John said that was defensive, but you already know that from your troll answer. "Tearing apart"?...you need to check yourself, dude. John didn't "rip" into anyone, and your four silly little paragraphs did nothing than expose your own envy. The person he replied to seems to have understood this, yet you somehow didn't. Your trollish behaviour guarantees nobody will take you seriously, so enjoy that. The only one being obnoxious is you. John gave a straight-up, honest explanation that makes perfect sense. You just come off like a baiting troll having a meltdown.

That is all.

Troll? For being honest?

That entire rant he posted, without a single break or paragraph, was pretty obviously an angrily written "you have no idea what I've done, you couldn't possibly understand the hard work, you're a keyboard warrior" post directed at someone who made a completely harmless comment. Saying something along the lines of the guy is hiding behind a keyboard and can't possibly understand his hard work? The entire thing is one angrily written self justification run on sentence. Maybe it's YOU who needs to work on your comprehension skills. The fact the guy felt compelled to post pictures of his physique and defend himself is a pretty damn easy way to tell the comments John made upset him. Doesn't take a master of social skills to assess this. I am sorry if my wording was too extreme. Tearing apart may be a bit much since there was no 'direct' insult but let's be real here.....

In this rant contains his "opinion" on gear where he states it doesn't make a difference 5 or 10 years after you take it. There have been studies around now for a while that prove this to be completely false and while obviously the testosterone levels are not still elevated in the same manner, there are dramatic differences between an "enhanced" physique and a natural. Even years later. This is not up for debate, it is science. We can't even talk about this stuff on this website anyway so it is a null issue but saying something like that is straight up misinformation and a lie. He is a fully grown man and he knows damn well there is a difference between a natural physique and a physique that has used PED's that doesn't just disappear if you go off cycle a few months. You kidding me?

And I am sorry. If this gets me banned so be it. But this post is bumped constantly. And reading through it, reading someone LIE BLATANTLY about their own use? He did steroids to "maintain" muscle mass? Do you honestly believe this?

No human being alive on this entire planet can inject anabolic compounds, lift weights with high intensity, and just "stay the same". I have read every word this man has said, and I am sorry for not being a sheep and believing his eloquently stated story about how he used steroids just to "stay the same and not lose anything." That is a blatant lie obvious to anyone who reads it, you know it, I know it, and I'm not the first to point it out.

All the respect in the world to the man for what he has achieved but being condescending to a random stranger and blatantly lying about drug use is not cool. In my HUMBLEST of humble opinions.

And if I come off as a baiting troll then what do you come off as, making your first post on an old account from 2004 just to trash talk some random 30 year old you don't know? What would that make you?

Good day to you.

[TheIronAsylum]

You're trying to convince yourself way harder than you are anyone else and it's obvious. This is the most defensive I've ever seen anyone get on the forum, let alone a "professional". You just wrote a book going off on a guy that didn't even try to have a go of you. He just made a comment that you turned into a massive insult and then rambled for so long it makes the stuff Kai Greene says make sense in comparison. Unreal.

You did steroids. You were not natural, you are not natural. You did drugs for the same reason every single other bodybuilder in history has used drugs. You can type until your arms fall off it's not going to undo what you, yourself, knowingly did.

Stop trying to tear people apart. You rip in to this guy saying he has no idea, he's just typing behind a keyboard, you're being downright insulting.

Your obnoxious rants about how natural you are, are more of an insult to the natural bodybuilding community than anything else I have seen on this website. 50 years old and still typing books trying to justify decisions you made. If you were really at peace, you wouldn't feel the need to go off on people the way you do.

negged youre just mad you dont have the genetics to get out of the 170s

its Johns thread dont come in here attacking him he can answer the questions however he wants so until you have a thread giving out advice and answering questions keep your mouth shut

[HOCH]

negged youre just mad you dont have the genetics to get out of the 170s

its Johns thread dont come in here attacking him he can answer the questions however he wants so until you have a thread giving out advice and answering questions keep your mouth shut

I actually wasn't offended in the least. I just wanted to prove I am an avid bodybuilder, and love the sport, and am not just some jerk behind a keyboard. I didn't mean to offend John, and have plenty of respect for his accomplishments. I was merely saying to SOME it might be considered disingenuous to say you are a natural when you used anabolic steroids at some point, regardless of the time frame. John Did seem kind of defensive, but I am sure this is because he gets asked this a lot or something. But I have no beef with the guy. I wouldn't be in his thread if I wasn't interested. Good day!

[TheIronAsylum]

I actually wasn't offended in the least. I just wanted to prove I am an avid bodybuilder, and love the sport, and am not just some jerk behind a keyboard. I didn't mean to offend John, and have plenty of respect for his accomplishments. I was merely saying to SOME it might be considered disingenuous to say you are a natural when you used anabolic steroids at some point, regardless of the time frame. John Did seem kind of defensive, but I am sure this is because he gets asked this a lot or something. But I have no beef with the guy. I wouldn't be in his thread if I wasn't interested. Good day!

your comment was perfectly fine and actually interesting wouldnt mind john going into it more in depth you also stated right afterwards you were not attacking

but the other guys is just attacking

[Natural_O]

I actually wasn't offended in the least. I just wanted to prove I am an avid bodybuilder, and love the sport, and am not just some jerk behind a keyboard. I didn't mean to offend John, and have plenty of respect for his accomplishments. I was merely saying to SOME it might be considered disingenuous to say you are a natural when you used anabolic steroids at some point, regardless of the time frame. John Did seem kind of defensive, but I am sure this is because he gets asked this a lot or something. But I have no beef with the guy. I wouldn't be in his thread if I wasn't interested. Good day!

It;s all good. I apologize if I sounded like I went off on a rant. I was probably a little tired from covering the Tampa Pro show all weekend and not getting enough rest but, yes, I do get tired of explaining my position on that issue over and over again. I didn't mean to say that you were just some critic typing on a keyboard but I have been criticized in the past by people who don't know what it's like to train really hard for 10, 20 and 30 years. It takes a lot of work and dedication to be a successful natural bodybuilder (or just a bodybuilder in general). To put it all down to "well, you used drugs" is to not get the full picture. What I was trying to explain in my long explanation (whoops, no paragraphs) was that the drugs were not responsible for building my size because I lost weight when I used them. When I was natural, my weight was basically the same and then I improved upon that physique as I continued to compete in the natural shows. Everyone has their own opinion but this is my genuine feelings on the issue. I never hid the fact that I did them in the past and I honestly don't feel like they had an impact on what I looked like as a natural bodybuilder. I felt then, and still do, that the effects of steroids are temporary and they only work when you take them. Now, as far as other drugs like GH, insulin and the newer drugs, I have no idea. My experience and from the people I knew and observed in the gyms for the many years I was working out, was that the guys who used the drugs to build size (steroids only), always lost that same size when they went off. Look at how Arnold would shrink up when he went off the drugs after the Olympia. Check out the beginning of "Pumping Iron" when he walks into Golds Gym weighing only 210 pounds. In only a couple months, he blows up to 230 pounds and wins the Olympia. After the show is over, he goes back to 210-215 pounds. People will believe what they want to believe but that's my opinion on the whole issue. Damn, is that too long? Should I have added a paragraph or two??

[transformerchad]

Hi John

Find you very inspirational . I have a question or two id like to ask about building muscle naturally

I have been training naturally for around 5 years on and off . Issue is i had 3 operations that held me back and threw me off during that time .

I was extremely fat in my teens and was constantly dieting , even the past 5 years was more of a Calorie deficit than anything . To cut a long story short iv been back at gym now for 6 weeks after a operation i had to get done . Im currently what id consider skinny/fat ( not enough muscle on my frame , look thin with a shirt on and fat without a shirt on)

My questions

1) i started off at 150lbs after my operation and almost 7months no lifting (lost 20lbs of muscle and gained some fat) . Its 6 weeks in and iv gained 12pounds . Is this normal considering iv never been on a proper bulk ? muscle memory ? glycogen retention?

2) How long should i aim to bulk for ? what should i aim to gain monthly / weekly? considering i have a higher body fat% . What should i aim to gain in this situation (keep in mind im around 18% body fat ) .

I cant afford to cut fat because iv done the same mistake in the past and ended up looking sickly thin with hardly any muscle and still had loads of fat around my mid section / lower back .

Im really stuck in a dilemma and would appreciate any advice you have considering you have done it all naturally for longer than i have been alive !

Regards . Chad

[HOCH]

It;s all good. I apologize if I sounded like I went off on a rant. I was probably a little tired from covering the Tampa Pro show all weekend and not getting enough rest but, yes, I do get tired of explaining my position on that issue over and over again. I didn't mean to say that you were just some critic typing on a keyboard but I have been criticized in the past by people who don't know what it's like to train really hard for 10, 20 and 30 years. It takes a lot of work and dedication to be a successful natural bodybuilder (or just a bodybuilder in general). To put it all down to "well, you used drugs" is to not get the full picture. What I was trying to explain in my long explanation (whoops, no paragraphs) was that the drugs were not responsible for building my size because I lost weight when I used them. When I was natural, my weight was basically the same and then I improved upon that physique as I continued to compete in the natural shows. Everyone has their own opinion but this is my genuine feelings on the issue. I never hid the fact that I did them in the past and I honestly don't feel like they had an impact on what I looked like as a natural bodybuilder. I felt then, and still do, that the effects of steroids are temporary and they only work when you take them. Now, as far as other drugs like GH, insulin and the newer drugs, I have no idea. My experience and from the people I knew and observed in the gyms for the many years I was working out, was that the guys who used the drugs to build size (steroids only), always lost that same size when they went off. Look at how Arnold would shrink up when he went off the drugs after the Olympia. Check out the beginning of "Pumping Iron" when he walks into Golds Gym weighing only 210 pounds. In only a couple months, he blows up to 230 pounds and wins the Olympia. After the show is over, he goes back to 210-215 pounds. People will believe what they want to believe but that's my opinion on the whole issue. Damn, is that too long? Should I have added a paragraph or two??

I've been training consistently and hard for over 12 years, so I know what it's like. I chose never to compete, because I like to just do it for myself, but I can imagine the amount of work and sacrifice that goes into a show. For me personally, it never made much sense to me to put that much work into something where the person only looks that way for a day or so. Nothing against it, it's just not for me. I am a utilitarian and love the way I look, but I have seen Layne prepare for shows, and it looks brutal. But I still train hard and certainly have built an impressive physique by anyone's standards. I appreciate the fact that you decided to go natural, regardless of whether or not you once used. I love bodybuilding, but to see professionals dropping like flies or going through all kinds of hardships because of what they did to their bodies is sad. My goal personally is to look pretty damn good, maybe not contest good, for many, many years and stay injury free.

[Natural_O]

Hi John

Find you very inspirational . I have a question or two id like to ask about building muscle naturally

I have been training naturally for around 5 years on and off . Issue is i had 3 operations that held me back and threw me off during that time .

I was extremely fat in my teens and was constantly dieting , even the past 5 years was more of a Calorie deficit than anything . To cut a long story short iv been back at gym now for 6 weeks after a operation i had to get done . Im currently what id consider skinny/fat ( not enough muscle on my frame , look thin with a shirt on and fat without a shirt on)

My questions

1) i started off at 150lbs after my operation and almost 7months no lifting (lost 20lbs of muscle and gained some fat) . Its 6 weeks in and iv gained 12pounds . Is this normal considering iv never been on a proper bulk ? muscle memory ? glycogen retention?

2) How long should i aim to bulk for ? what should i aim to gain monthly / weekly? considering i have a higher body fat% . What should i aim to gain in this situation (keep in mind im around 18% body fat ) .

I cant afford to cut fat because iv done the same mistake in the past and ended up looking sickly thin with hardly any muscle and still had loads of fat around my mid section / lower back .

Im really stuck in a dilemma and would appreciate any advice you have considering you have done it all naturally for longer than i have been alive !

Regards . Chad

Hey Chad, this is a good question and I think I can help you out because I went through something similar back in 2000 when I tore my bicep. I was off training for 12 weeks with my arm in a cast. I had been training for 23 years up to that time and had never taken more than a week off from training during all those years so it was a real shock to be off training that long. When I got the cast off, I had problems getting the range of motion back in my arm. My surgeon was a real old school guy who didn't want me to start training again until they could get my arm back to normal. It ended up being like 5 months off with no weight training at all. When I came back to the gym, I was like you, loss of muscle and I had gained a lot of fat. I was shocked how fast I gained my size and strength back. I was getting stronger and bigger each week. So to answer your first question, yes, that is normal to gain size and strength back quickly after a long layoff. It is muscle memory and it's just gaining back the muscle that had atrophied when you were off. My suggestion for you would be to count up your calories, protein, carbs and fats and keep increasing those amounts until you start gaining weight. When I went back, I was too anxious to get my size back so I started bulking up right away and this was a mistake because I had gained so much fat during my layoff. If you do it right, you should be able to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time because you will be regaining what you lost with muscle and if you are not eating an excessive amount of calories, you will also lose bodyfat. You'll have to write everything down to figure out how many calories you need to eat to keep gaining muscle tissue back while losing the fat but it won't take long to find out what the right ratios are. Start off with eating about 1 gram of protein and 1 gram of carbs for each pound of bodyweight and then adjust the numbers from there. Good Luck!!

[transformerchad]

Hey Chad, this is a good question and I think I can help you out because I went through something similar back in 2000 when I tore my bicep. I was off training for 12 weeks with my arm in a cast. I had been training for 23 years up to that time and had never taken more than a week off from training during all those years so it was a real shock to be off training that long. When I got the cast off, I had problems getting the range of motion back in my arm. My surgeon was a real old school guy who didn't want me to start training again until they could get my arm back to normal. It ended up being like 5 months off with no weight training at all. When I came back to the gym, I was like you, loss of muscle and I had gained a lot of fat. I was shocked how fast I gained my size and strength back. I was getting stronger and bigger each week. So to answer your first question, yes, that is normal to gain size and strength back quickly after a long layoff. It is muscle memory and it's just gaining back the muscle that had atrophied when you were off. My suggestion for you would be to count up your calories, protein, carbs and fats and keep increasing those amounts until you start gaining weight. When I went back, I was too anxious to get my size back so I started bulking up right away and this was a mistake because I had gained so much fat during my layoff. If you do it right, you should be able to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time because you will be regaining what you lost with muscle and if you are not eating an excessive amount of calories, you will also lose bodyfat. You'll have to write everything down to figure out how many calories you need to eat to keep gaining muscle tissue back while losing the fat but it won't take long to find out what the right ratios are. Start off with eating about 1 gram of protein and 1 gram of carbs for each pound of bodyweight and then adjust the numbers from there. Good Luck!!

Relieved to hear that its not just a bunch of fat that i have gained in the last 2 months . Im actually shocked at how fast my strength is coming back my Max lifts on the first week back feel like nothing now !!!
One thing iv been doing differently is not counting calories , iv been eating according to estimates etc and that may lead to fat gains . Im going to start counting calories and adjust from there . Thought i wouldnt need to be too strict because im trying to gain ... But gains are coming way too fast to be pure muscle

I know this is a very broad question , but in my situation when should i look to start cutting ?
My goal is to gain around 25Pounds after this recomp im trying to do , then cut back down around 15-20 pounds , hopefully leaving me with a 5-10pound increase in LBM , could i expect even more lbm ?

Really appreciate the response !
Much respect
Thanks

[Natural_O]

Relieved to hear that its not just a bunch of fat that i have gained in the last 2 months . Im actually shocked at how fast my strength is coming back my Max lifts on the first week back feel like nothing now !!!
One thing iv been doing differently is not counting calories , iv been eating according to estimates etc and that may lead to fat gains . Im going to start counting calories and adjust from there . Thought i wouldnt need to be too strict because im trying to gain ... But gains are coming way too fast to be pure muscle

I know this is a very broad question , but in my situation when should i look to start cutting ?
My goal is to gain around 25Pounds after this recomp im trying to do , then cut back down around 15-20 pounds , hopefully leaving me with a 5-10pound increase in LBM , could i expect even more lbm ?

Really appreciate the response !
Much respect
Thanks

When you should stop bulking is really up to you. You said you gain fat pretty easily so what I would recommend is to figure out how many calories you need to feed the muscles and take advantage of this period when you are gaining your muscle mass back. You certainly don't want to cheat yourself by eating less calories, protein and carbs than you need. But just eat enough so the gains are not too much where you gain an excessive amount of fat. When you notice that you are putting on more fat than muscle and the strength and size gains seem to be slowing down, then you can cut back slightly on your calories so you don't get too fat. When I tore my bicep, I was about 38 years old and my metabolism had always been pretty fast. After losing so much muscle from my extended layoff, I started eating my normal off season diet of about 4500 calories a day to quickly regain my size. What I didn't realize then, in hindsight, is that my metabolism had begun to change from getting older and I ended up gaining a lot of fat along with muscle. I would have been much better off eating less (3500-4000 calories per day) and gain my size and strength slowly while also losing fat. Usually, it's impossible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time but when you are coming back from a layoff where you have lost muscle and gained fat, it's possible to reverse this process and do both simultaneously because you are regaining muscle you already had while losing fat through exercise.

[Boarding]

LOL this ****er is NOT natural, if any of you fools believe it then shame on you.

Shame on you Mr Natural O. Lying Filt.

[transformerchad]

When you should stop bulking is really up to you. You said you gain fat pretty easily so what I would recommend is to figure out how many calories you need to feed the muscles and take advantage of this period when you are gaining your muscle mass back. You certainly don't want to cheat yourself by eating less calories, protein and carbs than you need. But just eat enough so the gains are not too much where you gain an excessive amount of fat. When you notice that you are putting on more fat than muscle and the strength and size gains seem to be slowing down, then you can cut back slightly on your calories so you don't get too fat. When I tore my bicep, I was about 38 years old and my metabolism had always been pretty fast. After losing so much muscle from my extended layoff, I started eating my normal off season diet of about 4500 calories a day to quickly regain my size. What I didn't realize then, in hindsight, is that my metabolism had begun to change from getting older and I ended up gaining a lot of fat along with muscle. I would have been much better off eating less (3500-4000 calories per day) and gain my size and strength slowly while also losing fat. Usually, it's impossible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time but when you are coming back from a layoff where you have lost muscle and gained fat, it's possible to reverse this process and do both simultaneously because you are regaining muscle you already had while losing fat through exercise.

100% , i guess its all trial and error . Eventually you hit that sweet spot in terms of calorie consumption and gains . Im working on minimal fat gains while adding back that lost mass .

Awesome advice , really appreciate your responses
Thanks John will catch up in a couple of months or so , hopefully things go according to plan!
Cheerz

[Natural_O]

100% , i guess its all trial and error . Eventually you hit that sweet spot in terms of calorie consumption and gains . Im working on minimal fat gains while adding back that lost mass .

Awesome advice , really appreciate your responses
Thanks John will catch up in a couple of months or so , hopefully things go according to plan!
Cheerz

You're welcome! All the best to you.

[bic_staedtler]

Troll? For being honest?

That entire rant he posted, without a single break or paragraph, was pretty obviously an angrily written "you have no idea what I've done, you couldn't possibly understand the hard work, you're a keyboard warrior" post directed at someone who made a completely harmless comment. Saying something along the lines of the guy is hiding behind a keyboard and can't possibly understand his hard work? The entire thing is one angrily written self justification run on sentence. Maybe it's YOU who needs to work on your comprehension skills. The fact the guy felt compelled to post pictures of his physique and defend himself is a pretty damn easy way to tell the comments John made upset him. Doesn't take a master of social skills to assess this. I am sorry if my wording was too extreme. Tearing apart may be a bit much since there was no 'direct' insult but let's be real here.....

In this rant contains his "opinion" on gear where he states it doesn't make a difference 5 or 10 years after you take it. There have been studies around now for a while that prove this to be completely false and while obviously the testosterone levels are not still elevated in the same manner, there are dramatic differences between an "enhanced" physique and a natural. Even years later. This is not up for debate, it is science. We can't even talk about this stuff on this website anyway so it is a null issue but saying something like that is straight up misinformation and a lie. He is a fully grown man and he knows damn well there is a difference between a natural physique and a physique that has used PED's that doesn't just disappear if you go off cycle a few months. You kidding me?

And I am sorry. If this gets me banned so be it. But this post is bumped constantly. And reading through it, reading someone LIE BLATANTLY about their own use? He did steroids to "maintain" muscle mass? Do you honestly believe this?

No human being alive on this entire planet can inject anabolic compounds, lift weights with high intensity, and just "stay the same". I have read every word this man has said, and I am sorry for not being a sheep and believing his eloquently stated story about how he used steroids just to "stay the same and not lose anything." That is a blatant lie obvious to anyone who reads it, you know it, I know it, and I'm not the first to point it out.

All the respect in the world to the man for what he has achieved but being condescending to a random stranger and blatantly lying about drug use is not cool. In my HUMBLEST of humble opinions.

And if I come off as a baiting troll then what do you come off as, making your first post on an old account from 2004 just to trash talk some random 30 year old you don't know? What would that make you?

Good day to you.

Trolls like you truly don't deserve replies. Why bother? You're so smart, you've got all this **** figured out already. You can tell who's lying and who isn't, you're consistently 'sorry' about not being a sheep, or getting banned, and everything else. You felt the need (compulsion) to go off on a rant, even when the original poster didn't take any offense. So be it. I guess that makes you feel better, like you've got something to offer to everybody here...like you're speaking for the 'silent majority', perhaps. I can assure you you are not.

Don't come at me about an "old account from 2014" like you know something. I assure you, you do not. If you did, you'd know that this board has been updated many times since then. I've made other posts. I just don't feel the need to do what you do. I've been on multiple bodybuilding boards for a long time. Not that it really means anything. But if it did, I'd fully expect you to take your rightful seat at the 2013 kiddie table and shut the **** up when grown folks are talking.

Here's your problem: everything John has done, then and now, flies in the face of what you believe in. You can't come to grips with it. It angers you. So you act accordingly. Perhaps in another ten years or so (if you're lucky) you'll figure it out. But not now. I am surprised that you're in your 30s and haven't figured much of this stuff out by now. Maybe in your 40s. Maybe never. If you haven't learned how to respect others who know more about bodybuilding than you do, I doubt it will happen. Makes absolutely no difference to me, though. Somebody will put you in your place, though. It always works out that way.

That is all.

[intensebro]

Trolls like you truly don't deserve replies. Why bother? You're so smart, you've got all this **** figured out already. You can tell who's lying and who isn't, you're consistently 'sorry' about not being a sheep, or getting banned, and everything else. You felt the need (compulsion) to go off on a rant, even when the original poster didn't take any offense. So be it. I guess that makes you feel better, like you've got something to offer to everybody here...like you're speaking for the 'silent majority', perhaps. I can assure you you are not.

Don't come at me about an "old account from 2014" like you know something. I assure you, you do not. If you did, you'd know that this board has been updated many times since then. I've made other posts. I just don't feel the need to do what you do. I've been on multiple bodybuilding boards for a long time. Not that it really means anything. But if it did, I'd fully expect you to take your rightful seat at the 2013 kiddie table and shut the **** up when grown folks are talking.

Here's your problem: everything John has done, then and now, flies in the face of what you believe in. You can't come to grips with it. It angers you. So you act accordingly. Perhaps in another ten years or so (if you're lucky) you'll figure it out. But not now. I am surprised that you're in your 30s and haven't figured much of this stuff out by now. Maybe in your 40s. Maybe never. If you haven't learned how to respect others who know more about bodybuilding than you do, I doubt it will happen. Makes absolutely no difference to me, though. Somebody will put you in your place, though. It always works out that way.

That is all.

Old man I know this was supposed to be your moment of glory but the only glory you're gonna have is that 5 cent senior discount you get on your coffee at McDonalds. Make it a decaf next time.

You really ran the gambit with this post. Basically all you did was insult me while dodging the question I asked you in the previous post. Do you believe someone can use steroids and work out with high intensity and stay the same? Do you believe this? We both know why you didn't answer that. It's not possible, and you don't believe it.

I have an old account I made when I was 16 that is still here. The only thing missing from it is the original profile pic, I just checked. What does the website changing have to do with you being on an alt account? This isn't your main account. You didn't just pull an old account from 2004 out and make the very first post on it in this thread. You're lying. You just got caught. It's cool, but stop doing it.

The last paragraph you typed literally makes no sense. "Everything John has done flies in the face of what you believe." I truly have no idea what the **** that was even supposed to mean. Judging by the zingy manner you threw it out in, I'm sure it was supposed to have impact. Things have more impact when they make sense so bare that in mind for the future.

You're absolutely right about one thing, John knows way more about bodybuilding than me. He has more knowledge and has done more not just in the sport of bodybuilding, but in the field of bodybuilding outside of competition. He knows way more about every facet of the game and is more accomplished within this field than I will ever be. I respect him for that. As such this is my last post in this thread because our argument is detracting from people getting their questions answered, and that's something I do not want.

If I went into a baseball forum Barry Bonds posted in and called him out on his use I'd get flamed by everyone and told I was an idiot, a troll, to kill myself, etc. I'm on someone else's home turf this is to be expected. Doesn't bother me one bit. It is what it is. Some red squares in my cp aren't going to make me reevaluate my life. It's gonna be hard man, but, somehow some way I think I'll pull through from this.

As far as "somebody putting me in my place". Again.

Make it a decaf next time.

[soccerdad5]

John, question for you. I have admired you a lot and followed some stuff you have told me along the way. I became an IFBB pro this summer in the physique division. It was one of my goals (wanted to do it by 45 years of age --did it by 43 years of age) and I accomplished it. I am lifetime drug free (no steroids, HGH, diuretics etc). As you know the physique division is very different than the bodybuilding division. Since I am now in the "pro" league I have decided to take off for about 10 months to add muscle. I need to start preparing for my contest in May. I need a lot of improvement on my upper chest and back. I was on the stage at 6'0" 190 and I am now 4 weeks into the offseason and am 198. What do you have recommend me doing? I have been coaching myself for 1 year so I know how to dial in my nutrition. I also do very few cardio sessions even getting prepared for a show. What do you have recommend me doing (diet and workouts)?

Here is a couple of shots of me:

[Natural_O]

John, question for you. I have admired you a lot and followed some stuff you have told me along the way. I became an IFBB pro this summer in the physique division. It was one of my goals (wanted to do it by 45 years of age --did it by 43 years of age) and I accomplished it. I am lifetime drug free (no steroids, HGH, diuretics etc). As you know the physique division is very different than the bodybuilding division. Since I am now in the "pro" league I have decided to take off for about 10 months to add muscle. I need to start preparing for my contest in May. I need a lot of improvement on my upper chest and back. I was on the stage at 6'0" 190 and I am now 4 weeks into the offseason and am 198. What do you have recommend me doing? I have been coaching myself for 1 year so I know how to dial in my nutrition. I also do very few cardio sessions even getting prepared for a show. What do you have recommend me doing (diet and workouts)?

Here is a couple of shots of me:

Congratulations on getting your pro card! That's an awesome achievement!!
What does your off season training and diet look like now?