Ephedrine HCL + Caffeine Conclusions

[YoungBlaise]

So as you can all see, after several years of following the forum and the website this is my first time posting anything. I felt compelled to make this inaugural post as I thought it might come in handy for anyone who had suspicions or feelings regarding the supplementation of caffeine and ephedrine to any workout regimen and diet plan.

After several documented trials (3-4 of 3 to 4 weeks a piece) I've concluded, once and for all, that regular supplementation of these products together has little to no value or use for me.

I should mention the documenting of my experience with ephedrine and caffeine is not unique, as a I regularly monitor the effect of any new supplements I introduce to my nutrition plan. That being said, my documentation became of particular importance after I visually noticed vasoconstriction with the use of ephedrine and caffeine.

After taking these products in as little a quantity of 8-16 mg of ephedrine with 100 mg of caffeine, the visual prominence of the veins in my arms was substantially reduced; this effect was not anomalous and could not be mitigated with the use of aspirin, arginine, or any other supplement with supposed vasodilator properties.

This constriction would not be of particular concern in isolation; however, with repeated use of these products I began to notice other effects including: seemingly more difficulty in adding muscle over long trials periods, reduced endurance in workouts, and the stiffening of my legs/lactic "pooling" in workouts of over a half hour duration. Additionally, dependency came into the equation rather quickly, and motivation became harder and harder to find with increased usage (nothing insane, we're talking a 300 mg and 32 - 48 mg/day range). As well, I would notice a "rebound effect" on days off of my supplement regimen, with an abundance of bloating around the abdominal section; this bloating could even occur within a few hours after taking these supplements.

As for performance effects, there is no question ephedrine had a sort of numbing and weightlessness effect on my body when combined with caffeine. I would feel as if I had a little "pep in my step"; however, actual increases in performance were isolated to upper body strength workouts and some plyometric activities; it should be noted, the increases in plyometric performance were mostly not measurable, just perceived from the feeling of weightlessness.

With this short write-up, I'd like to fast forward directly to my conclusions regarding these supplements.

The first, is that the bloating and inability to gain muscle mass was likely a layered issue being caused by increased cortisol production and an inability to properly assess my required rest and recovery due to incessant central nervous system activation and the "numbing" effect. I also have a sneaking suspicion that the vasoconstriction affected my ability to transport nutrients and achieve muscle recovery; however, this is pure conjecture and I would invite anyone with formal education or research on the subject to comment.

Secondly, I have a feeling that although I would cut my usage off very early in the day (say 3 pm), my sleep was still being disrupted by the use of these stimulants -- i.e. even though I could fall asleep quite easily I don't believe I was getting the deep REM that my body needed.

Third, everyone should basically ignore the instant illusion of validation with these supplements when you notice your weight has almost immediately gone down. In my experience, this effect is only temporary and is best explained by the reduction of water weight and bloating.

Fourth, diet becomes harder and harder to control with these supplements because of increased cortisol production over time. My body has a way of reacting to the use of these weight loss substances by having a rebound feeling of ravenous hunger -- which IMO, does not emanate from any nutritional requirement but rather, from a hormonal imbalance.

All in all, I would say, the use of these supplements is best left for acute application for performance enhancement in select situations, but even then I wouldn't recommend ephedrine and caffeine.

Considering the other implied effects on the heart and BP, overall I just don't think these supplements are worth it.

Since dropping the combo for the last time, I've quickly reduced my weight substantially and have felt a much more healthy stream of prolonged normal energy levels throughout the day in addition to noticeably increased hypertrophy of my muscles during workouts (which will probably provide a better physique with more time).

Anyway, I could ramble on; I just thought I would share my findings for anyone who was considering adding these supplements.


Thanks for reading,


Blaise

[eatyourspinach]

Did you see a doctor to assess your hormone levels since you keep referring to your cortisol levels?

[Igmann]

ITT: Broscience post of the month

[Jeff the Repper]

I'm not sure if you are serious or not, used properly EC is about as good as it gets.

[YoungBlaise]

@ eatyourspinach:

No, I did not.

As for this being bro science, I don't entirely disagree. But I closely monitored my diet, regimen, and sleep, and this is simply what I found.

If it contradicts other people's results, that's great for them, but telling me these supplements could be good for me would be akin to telling me it would feel good to get a swift kick to the nuts at this point.

I'm not sure if this "Igmann" would consider one's pain in one's nuts after being kicked there as "bro science", but it's of extremely little importance as I'm pretty self assured in my interest to not be kicked there.

[eatyourspinach]

With this short write-up, I'd like to fast forward directly to my conclusions regarding these supplements.

The first, is that the bloating and inability to gain muscle mass was likely a layered issue being caused by increased cortisol production and an inability to properly assess my required rest and recovery due to incessant central nervous system activation and the "numbing" effect. I also have a sneaking suspicion that the vasoconstriction affected my ability to transport nutrients and achieve muscle recovery; however, this is pure conjecture and I would invite anyone with formal education or research on the subject to comment.

Fourth, diet becomes harder and harder to control with these supplements because of increased cortisol production over time. My body has a way of reacting to the use of these weight loss substances by having a rebound feeling of ravenous hunger -- which IMO, does not emanate from any nutritional requirement but rather, from a hormonal imbalance

So then how are you self diagnosing a hormonal imbalance?

[YoungBlaise]

So then how are you self diagnosing a hormonal imbalance?

By doing just that; As for whether it is correct, I have not had that verified by a lab.

Regarding the effects of cortisol: increased hunger and bloating -- is that not the case? This is what I experienced; if not the ephedrine and caffeine, what else could cause these abnormally exaggerated effects on three separate trials with a consistent diet, sleep, and workout regimen?

If it is cortisol or some other abnormality is, again, of less importance to me. The hunger and the rebound bloating was a repeated and consistent occurrence -- some may even refer to this as a "fact".

Of course it could be my "supplement taker's bias", but I have no clue what my source of hunger and bloating as a side effect would have been considering almost every article I've read on caffeine and ephedrine has reported the opposite.

If it is not the case that putting a stress on your body can result in the release of cortisol, subsequent bloating, and increased hunger -- please correct me now; everything I have read seems to support this.

Again, if it has not been anyone else's experience, that is great for them.

[ahawk01]

Anything that ups your metabolism is going to make you hungry. That's where small meals come into play. I know when I eat small meals every few hours I feel fuller all the time and it takes down that ravenous hunger. Stuff that are thermogenic 9 times out of 10 are not an appetite supressant. In fact in may you may wanna eat more.
I stock up on shakers. Keep around 100 calories of protein in it. If i'm hungry just add water.

[stan47islav]

Well thanks for letting us know it didn't work for you. But it still works for other people..... so *shrug*

[drewmigliazzo]

ITT: Broscience post of the month

This times a million

[johnnygun207]

This times a million

works tremendous for me. i gained some weight due to a career change and hectic year. am using the stack again and have already lost 12lbs in a little over a month, while still increasing the weight in almost all of my lifts. i've had the same results in the past as well, before i fell off track.

[XCriticalBenchX]

Who signs up on a forum to make this kind of post? I call BS