Official Metal Thread (Part II)

[anon1576783490]

[Bones98]

Haha we had Justin record vocals for a demo we turned in for a high school battle of the bands way back in the day.

fuuuark. Got mp3s of it? if so, send em my way.

I had the privilege of seeing Retch live with a ton of great bands such as Malignancy, Devourment, Guttural Secrete, Inherit Disease, and more.
It was pretty much a United Guttural, Unmatched Matched Brutality, and Unique Leader records show. The three big U's in brutal death metal.

Sucks about what happened to Ryan. I'm not sure if his supposed heavy partying may have exasperated his battle with leukemia.

[djflex]

Meh.

In other news, Fallujah are now being teased for Summer Slaughter.

Really? Fuk that would be awesome

[xITHYPHALLIC]

Really? Fuk that would be awesome

Yeah, the ******** page posted "The Harvest Wombs" the other day.

I don't know why they just don't drop the lineup.

[Daath]

Sup fuarks, long time no see. My laptop failed back in November so I ended up taking a break from most of the webs. Actually fuarking felt great.

I'm going to go back a couple of pages and take a look, but I'm sure as hell not going to browse all the way back to Mid Novembers posts. I kept up to date with some main chit. New expected releases and some of the new teaser trailers for new releases (fuarking can't wait for Titan to drop). That being said, did we find any new gems in the past 5 or so months that I should be aware about?

[Daath]

hhhnnnggggg

Forgot about October Falls. Good chit.

Somewhat relevant:

Some shots from last night's Trivium show. One of my buddies knows the band and so I got to photograph them. They were one of my favorite bands in highschool (nofuksgiven).

Brah, you were at the show in Minneapolis? I was there myself. About the same, one of my favorite bands in high school so nofuksgiveneither. Ascendancy was one of my go-to albums. They actually put on a good live show too. Saw them with Devildriver their last round through MN and I was really impressed.

Actually got Heafy's guitar pick from the show. First one from any of the shows I've been to.

[TopsecretWaffle]

Saw Iced Earth last night. Seeing Dream Theater tonight. Fukkkkkk I am excite. Stu Block doesn't miss a fukking note live. Jesus christ that guy can sing. Missing Barlow though. Oddly enough I've been listening to nothing but The Glorious Burden lately (Ripper).

awesome. i saw IE on the horror show tour. Barlow was EPIC. I still throw on alive in athens from time to time. GOAT live album

[HoisinHeaven]

Ok, but can someone tell me why the **** people rag on "triggered" drums so often? I personally think they sound great in many cases. All it's really doing is cutting through the rest of the mix so you can hear it easier.

edit: And what's the difference between triggering a kick and EQ'ing it so they all have the same, consistent volume? It's just semantics.

People dislike them because it's not a real representation of how a drummer sounds. A drummer won't hit parts of the kit with exactly the same intensity EVERY single time, and he won't play perfectly in time. It's impossible for a human to do so.

EQ'ing is boosting or reducing different frequencies, on kick drums it's always the mids and treble to make it cut through the mix. It's still going to get quieter when the drummer plays faster, regardless.

[ShoryuBrah]

Ok, but can someone tell me why the **** people rag on "triggered" drums so often? I personally think they sound great in many cases. All it's really doing is cutting through the rest of the mix so you can hear it easier.

edit: And what's the difference between triggering a kick and EQ'ing it so they all have the same, consistent volume? It's just semantics.

Triggering can sound terrible in a lot of cases. In others, it sounds perfectly fine. I personally hate when anything but the kick is triggered. I knew a guy who triggered the entire drumset. He was basically playing an electric drum set.

Triggering can have some benefits, which is why people rag on them. One is that it creates a sense that the drummer is beating on that kick pretty hard, when in actually a lot of death metal drumming (especially anything higher than 220bpm) is played relatively lightly (that's not to say it's being played LIGHTLY, but just relatively speaking). That's just the nature of the speed in combination with the tempo, it's just not possible to hit it extremely hard, as opposed to the old school method (Metallica, Slayer) where the drummers would really beat the chit out of their drums. Another benefit is when you're at those extreme tempos, the kick drum can get lost and will not sound correct if you're hitting it too fast. Triggering makes sure you can hear every hit. The down side is if you **** up, it'll be a lot more noticeable.

The difference between triggering and EQing is that triggering takes a drum hit, and sends a prerecorded, constant volume hit to the PA system. EQing can bring out or take away certain frequencies from the source. If you want a little more click to your kick drum, add some high end. More oopmph with each hit, add some mids/bass to the kick drum.

Brah, you were at the show in Minneapolis? I was there myself. About the same, one of my favorite bands in high school so nofuksgiveneither. Ascendancy was one of my go-to albums. They actually put on a good live show too. Saw them with Devildriver their last round through MN and I was really impressed.

Haha, yep. Same show.

awesome. i saw IE on the horror show tour. Barlow was EPIC. I still throw on alive in athens from time to time. GOAT live album

Jealous as phuck brah. Horror Show is one of my favorite IE albums, and probably the first one I really got into. I've seen them twice with Barlow but relatively late into his IE career. Once in 2008 and once shortly before he quit again. Stu is no joke though. Dude can wail.

[HoisinHeaven]

Triggering can sound terrible in a lot of cases. In others, it sounds perfectly fine. I personally hate when anything but the kick is triggered. I knew a guy who triggered the entire drumset. He was basically playing an electric drum set.

Triggering can have some benefits, which is why people rag on them. One is that it creates a sense that the drummer is beating on that kick pretty hard, when in actually a lot of death metal drumming (especially anything higher than 220bpm) is played relatively lightly (that's not to say it's being played LIGHTLY, but just relatively speaking). That's just the nature of the speed in combination with the tempo, it's just not possible to hit it extremely hard, as opposed to the old school method (Metallica, Slayer) where the drummers would really beat the chit out of their drums. Another benefit is when you're at those extreme tempos, the kick drum can get lost and will not sound correct if you're hitting it too fast. Triggering makes sure you can hear every hit. The down side is if you **** up, it'll be a lot more noticeable.

The difference between triggering and EQing is that triggering takes a drum hit, and sends a prerecorded, constant volume hit to the PA system. EQing can bring out or take away certain frequencies from the source. If you want a little more click to your kick drum, add some high end. More oopmph with each hit, add some mids/bass to the kick drum.

You ever thought out the perfect the perfect drum recording?

[ShoryuBrah]

You ever thought out the perfect the perfect drum recording?

u wot m(3x3)

[xITHYPHALLIC]

Sup fuarks, long time no see. My laptop failed back in November so I ended up taking a break from most of the webs. Actually fuarking felt great.

I'm going to go back a couple of pages and take a look, but I'm sure as hell not going to browse all the way back to Mid Novembers posts. I kept up to date with some main chit. New expected releases and some of the new teaser trailers for new releases (fuarking can't wait for Titan to drop). That being said, did we find any new gems in the past 5 or so months that I should be aware about?

I wondered where you went. Not sure if you're into all of this stuff, but here's some chit I've been raving about:

Inquisition - Obscure Verses for the Multiverse
Thou - Heathen
Triptykon - Melana Chasmata
Gojira's new live album
Behemoth - The Satanist
Black Crown Initiate - Song of the Crippled Bull
Conquering Dystopia's new full length
Beyond Creation - The Aura (old album)

People dislike them because it's not a real representation of how a drummer sounds. A drummer won't hit parts of the kit with exactly the same intensity EVERY single time, and he won't play perfectly in time. It's impossible for a human to do so.

EQ'ing is boosting or reducing different frequencies, on kick drums it's always the mids and treble to make it cut through the mix. It's still going to get quieter when the drummer plays faster, regardless.

I ain't even mad. Triggers are pretty much a necessity when playing at high speeds live, IMO. The bass drum just sounds like a fart otherwise.

Triggering can sound terrible in a lot of cases. In others, it sounds perfectly fine. I personally hate when anything but the kick is triggered. I knew a guy who triggered the entire drumset. He was basically playing an electric drum set.

Triggering can have some benefits, which is why people rag on them. One is that it creates a sense that the drummer is beating on that kick pretty hard, when in actually a lot of death metal drumming (especially anything higher than 220bpm) is played relatively lightly (that's not to say it's being played LIGHTLY, but just relatively speaking). That's just the nature of the speed in combination with the tempo, it's just not possible to hit it extremely hard, as opposed to the old school method (Metallica, Slayer) where the drummers would really beat the chit out of their drums. Another benefit is when you're at those extreme tempos, the kick drum can get lost and will not sound correct if you're hitting it too fast. Triggering makes sure you can hear every hit. The down side is if you **** up, it'll be a lot more noticeable.

The difference between triggering and EQing is that triggering takes a drum hit, and sends a prerecorded, constant volume hit to the PA system. EQing can bring out or take away certain frequencies from the source. If you want a little more click to your kick drum, add some high end. More oopmph with each hit, add some mids/bass to the kick drum.

I think I understood what was going on with the triggers and the samples that it sends out. I had no idea what EQing was.

With that said, isn't it possible that EQ'd drums can still sound like ass? I would assume that just because it "sounds" triggered doesn't mean that it actually is.

You ever thought out the perfect the perfect drum recording?

Mario Duplantier's kit on The Way of All Flesh.

[ShoryuBrah]

I think I understood what was going on with the triggers and the samples that it sends out. I had no idea what EQing was.

With that said, isn't it possible that EQ'd drums can still sound like ass? I would assume that just because it "sounds" triggered doesn't mean that it actually is.

Everything is EQ'd.

[xITHYPHALLIC]

Everything is EQ'd.

Intredasting.

In other news, Revocation signed to Metal Blade. They are also recording a new record. Strong album cycle.

[Biowaste]

People who think of triggering in any sort of negative way, usually think of it as a musician who is "cheating" somehow, playing more notes than they can actually play, can't play the notes very loud naturally, etc. Some think that triggers can magically turn any ol' drummer into George Kollias. Unfortunately there are a lot of musicians who, by discounting another musician's ability in some way, helps them feel better about themselves and their shortcomings. You'll find that metal musicians and fans are the worst offenders of this mentality. Ironic right? Since metal is all about having "no rules". "Cheating" isn't really possible in music anyway, since you aren't competing with anyone, there's no scores being kept, etc.

Any mature, seasoned musician would never think this way. Why? Because triggering is just another tool that a drummer can utilize to express themselves musically. If drum triggers are considered cheating, then so is a vocalist using a microphone or guitar players using amps and/or effects. How DARE they use electricity or electronic device to alter, improve or amplify their sounds!

In reality, most drummers use them as sound reinforcement or getting a specific sound. As a few others have said above, the sound being triggered can really help the drum sound cut through the mix without a lot of sound altering, and can also help the ear to distinguish the sound of each drum or note being played. Another advantage is that you're getting a much more consistant sound from venue to venue and don't have to worry about microphone feedback or bleeding from other instruments. They can make life much easier and must more consistent for the working/touring musician.

A poster above said that a triggered sound can be annoying. But in reality, a mic'd/compressed kick can be just as annoying. Triggers can trigger any sound, so the process of triggering isn't inherently annoying, so to speak. Sound modules can be set to be dynamic, but most metal drummers set the dynamic level to zero/max, no matter the velocity of the actual physical hit, since it's the sound of the metal music that requires it to as extreme as possible.

Like I said, triggering is just another tool for creating art. Some people just have a hard time accepting the fact that drummers can (and will) move into the electronic sound era, just as every other musician has over the past few decades. Acoustic drum sound has its place, but triggered drum sounds do too.

Hope this helps.

[skullcrusher149]

AOTY (maybe)

http://trapthem.bandcamp.com/

[GoingPlaces]

oh yes

[Queequeg]

Cause I don't like like death metal or cause I called Infant Annihilator death metal? (I think they're considered deathcore or something but it's the same sh*t to me)

I don't really dig IA, but you can like what you want, I have no problem with that. It just seemed a wired band to go to for someone who doesn't like death. If someone said to me, "hey, I don't like death but could you recommend something that perhaps I could get into" I wouldn't recommend AI or bands like them.

[xITHYPHALLIC]

People who think of triggering in any sort of negative way, usually think of it as a musician who is "cheating" somehow, playing more notes than they can actually play, can't play the notes very loud naturally, etc. Some think that triggers can magically turn any ol' drummer into George Kollias. Unfortunately there are a lot of musicians who, by discounting another musician's ability in some way, helps them feel better about themselves and their shortcomings. You'll find that metal musicians and fans are the worst offenders of this mentality. Ironic right? Since metal is all about having "no rules". "Cheating" isn't really possible in music anyway, since you aren't competing with anyone, there's no scores being kept, etc.

Any mature, seasoned musician would never think this way. Why? Because triggering is just another tool that a drummer can utilize to express themselves musically. If drum triggers are considered cheating, then so is a vocalist using a microphone or guitar players using amps and/or effects. How DARE they use electricity or electronic device to alter, improve or amplify their sounds!

In reality, most drummers use them as sound reinforcement or getting a specific sound. As a few others have said above, the sound being triggered can really help the drum sound cut through the mix without a lot of sound altering, and can also help the ear to distinguish the sound of each drum or note being played. Another advantage is that you're getting a much more consistant sound from venue to venue and don't have to worry about microphone feedback or bleeding from other instruments. They can make life much easier and must more consistent for the working/touring musician.

A poster above said that a triggered sound can be annoying. But in reality, a mic'd/compressed kick can be just as annoying. Triggers can trigger any sound, so the process of triggering isn't inherently annoying, so to speak. Sound modules can be set to be dynamic, but most metal drummers set the dynamic level to zero/max, no matter the velocity of the actual physical hit, since it's the sound of the metal music that requires it to as extreme as possible.

Like I said, triggering is just another tool for creating art. Some people just have a hard time accepting the fact that drummers can (and will) move into the electronic sound era, just as every other musician has over the past few decades. Acoustic drum sound has its place, but triggered drum sounds do too.

Hope this helps.

I agree completely. I love to hear triggered bass drum in a live setting - it makes it sound better IMO. It's true to the actual albums where you may be able to distinguish those sounds. If a drummer in an extreme band isn't using triggers, and they're playing at high speeds, I think it sounds like chit. To me, the drums are an integral part of the visceral feelings that metal invokes. When you lose the double kicks, you're losing a HUGE portion of that.

[yg7s7]

fuuarrk this progressive black/folk metal song is one of the best hidden gems I've found.. it makes me so emotional

Sup fuarks, long time no see. My laptop failed back in November so I ended up taking a break from most of the webs. Actually fuarking felt great.

I'm going to go back a couple of pages and take a look, but I'm sure as hell not going to browse all the way back to Mid Novembers posts. I kept up to date with some main chit. New expected releases and some of the new teaser trailers for new releases (fuarking can't wait for Titan to drop). That being said, did we find any new gems in the past 5 or so months that I should be aware about?

lol sup man

[Erik111]

The argument about triggered drums can be about "cheating" but I think here its not about the use in general but more about that specific "sound." You all are really arguing apples and oranges, its the same debate about aesthetics as vinyl vs digital. Some people prefer their metal more raw than tech

[xITHYPHALLIC]

The argument about triggered drums can be about "cheating" but I think here its not about the use in general but more about that specific "sound." You all are really arguing apples and oranges, its the same debate about aesthetics as vinyl vs digital. Some people prefer their metal more raw than tech

I think that my point was that when it comes to music on the actual albums, if the album is engineered poorly, it's going to sound like garbage regardless of whether triggered drums were used or not. I've listened to plenty of albums that had completely synthesized drums that sound better than albums recorded with an actual kit.

Meshuggah's Catch Thirty Three is a good example. The drums are 100% programmed with a drum machine.

[yg7s7]

whenever I hear "triggered drums" the first thing comes to my mind is the song "Blessings Upon The Throne of Tyranny" by Dimmu Borgir lol

[xITHYPHALLIC]

whenever I hear "triggered drums" the first thing comes to my mind is the song "Blessings Upon The Throne of Tyranny" by Dimmu Borgir lol

Eh, I've heard worse than that.



I want to see Gojira play live. BADLY.

[Daath]

I wondered where you went. Not sure if you're into all of this stuff, but here's some chit I've been raving about:

Inquisition - Obscure Verses for the Multiverse
Thou - Heathen
Triptykon - Melana Chasmata
Gojira's new live album
Behemoth - The Satanist
Black Crown Initiate - Song of the Crippled Bull
Conquering Dystopia's new full length
Beyond Creation - The Aura (old album)

Yeah, I was pretty pissed when the laptop went. I knew it was bound to happen, but I didn't think it was going to happen that soon. Anyway, thanks man. I've got Inquisition, Triptykon, Gojira and Behemoth, the rest though I don't know of. I'll check them all out.

oh yes

hhhnnnggggg!!!!

lol sup man

Haha, long time no see. \m/

On a side note, seeing Gojira and Kvelertak on May 7th. Fuarking excited. Mastodon is the headliner. I've listened to them before, years ago, but it never really impressed me if I remember correctly. If any of you like them and have a good starting point on what to listen to, give me a shout.

[Biowaste]

I think that my point was that when it comes to music on the actual albums, if the album is engineered poorly, it's going to sound like garbage regardless of whether triggered drums were used or not. I've listened to plenty of albums that had completely synthesized drums that sound better than albums recorded with an actual kit.

Exactly. Triggering is merely a means to an end (a tool to achieve a desired result). People who don't know how triggering works, assume negatives for things they don't understand. They will say triggering is the issue (or a way of cheating), but it's how they are used that's the issue (the end result). It's entirely possible to trigger a natural, dynamic "raw" drum sound, but it's up to the artist on how they want to portray their music (again, the end result).

Imagine this analogy. You want your car painted red. A human can paint the car, or a robot paints the car, and the results are basically identical. People will say "omg, I hate robot painted cars" when they should be saying they just don't like red cars.

The end results matter the most, not the tools or the means to get the end results.

[HoisinHeaven]

It's entirely possible to trigger a natural, dynamic "raw" drum sound, but it's up to the artist on how they want to portray their music (again, the end result).

This one thing I don't understand, it's completely unnecessary to apply all those that high end frequencies to kick drums. You can turn the kicks up in the mix to make up for their lack of high end and still hear them clearly. Like this;



Let's say I have to play a tremolo picked riff for 16 bars, but I could only play it for 8 bars before I start to lose speed. I would practice until I have the stamina to play it for the full 16 bars. With modern recording a guitarist doesn't have to practice to until he can play it for 16 bars because he can just record 8, then have the producer copy and paste it. However you're not going to notice until you see them live. Obviously with a guitar your not going to get quieter as you progress through the riff like a drummer would. If a drummer uses triggers I automatically assume a he has the mentality of 'why bother practicing and improve my stamina when I can just have triggers keep me at 100% volume?'

It's not going to make me like a song any less, but my respect for them as a musician is going to be significantly less.

[ShoryuBrah]

If a drummer uses triggers I automatically assume a he has the mentality of 'why bother practicing and improve my stamina when I can just have triggers keep me at 100% volume?'

It's not going to make me like a song any less, but my respect for them as a musician is going to be significantly less.

Not sherrif serious. That's like saying guitarists shouldn't use any gain because it will automatically make all the notes compress into the same volume level.

Also George is a well know advocate of triggering his kicks. Nobody matches his intensity.

[HoisinHeaven]

Not sherrif serious. That's like saying guitarists shouldn't use any gain because it will automatically make all the notes compress into the same volume level.

Aware me.

Also George is a well know advocate of triggering his kicks. Nobody matches his intensity.
[youtube]Upm39w9iYmU[youtube]

He clearly doesn't need to, just like Derek Roddy and Pete Sandoval. Why they choose to is beyond me.

[xITHYPHALLIC]

This one thing I don't understand, it's completely unnecessary to apply all those that high end frequencies to kick drums. You can turn the kicks up in the mix to make up for their lack of high end and still hear them clearly. Like this;

[youtube]WlxgMu_eXQo[youtube]

This song is actually a great argument FOR triggers. Bass drum kicks that sound like that in a live setting sound like ****. It just sounds like a vibrating fart through the monitors. What's the point of having fast bass drum kicks if they're not distinguishable? You're totally losing an aspect of the music. The kicks on that song just sound like "bumps" in the mix - they have no punch or identity.

Not sherrif serious. That's like saying guitarists shouldn't use any gain because it will automatically make all the notes compress into the same volume level.

Also George is a well know advocate of triggering his kicks. Nobody matches his intensity.
[youtube]Upm39w9iYmU[youtube]

Agree. ****ing beast drummer. lol if you think Kollias "pulls his punches" so to speak and lets the triggers do all the work.



He's blasting with one foot faster than most do double pedals. And if anything, you have to be more skilled to play with triggers live. You can hear everything.



Longstreth and Kollias (among others) do not "pull their kicks" and use triggers as a crutch. They don't make mistakes live either. I've seen Longstreth live twice and Kollias once, and they sounded just like their albums, triggers and all. I don't even remember them making mistakes.

However, that doesn't mean that there aren't garbage drummers who abuse triggers. But those guys aren't playing the big shows, and I'll never hear them live, so no care.

Side note: this is probably one of the most cliche arguments in metal at this point.

On a side note, seeing Gojira and Kvelertak on May 7th. Fuarking excited. Mastodon is the headliner. I've listened to them before, years ago, but it never really impressed me if I remember correctly. If any of you like them and have a good starting point on what to listen to, give me a shout.

Listen to Leviathan and Crack the Skye. The Hunter sucks.