Pro-Israeli argument

[Stevelegh]

Why are you asking him to explain a bunch of lies you just made up?

Oh, I'm sorry, you weren't only lying, the UN, namely UNHRC has indeed passed countless anti Israeli resolutions, however, you are a true idiot if you're actually expecting anyone, let alone Israel to take seriously what the UNHRC says.
If you're unaware I suggest you google it a little.

Explain a bunch of lies? Please explain what lies.

As far as UNHRC, I didn't mention them. You did, but as you mention it, the UNHRC also consists of EU member states such as UK, France, Germany etc. Interestingly, as much as pro Israel lobbyists like to point out other nations' violations, its every nation in the UNHRC apart from the US that voted against Israel, so there's no ifs, buts, or wherefores about it. When it comes to human rights violations, the entire world thinks Israel is in the wrong. No amount of distractions, finger pointing or whataboutery is going to change that fact apart from Israel changing what it does.

Truth is Israel is whining about being lined up and being brought to book when in truth the thing they don't like is being at the front of the line.

Don't worry. Its just a matter of time. The US veto is evaporating as we speak

[Malfurion]

Why is there so much support for Israel?

2 reasons mainly:

1.) The circumstances surrounding Israel's creation and the fact that Jews would be a stateless people otherwise

2.) The fact that every surrounding Arab country would wipe Israel (and Jews) from the face of the earth if they had the chance

[ll ReNeGaDe ll]

Please explain how the occupation and gradual colonisation of land and resources in spite of countless UN resolutions and the Geneva Convention is a life saving measure of the fourth most militarised nation on earth against a civilian population.

Easy.

If Israel withdrew from the territories:

1) More Israelis would be within rocket range

2) More Palestinians would be able to enter Israel and stab Israelis.

Therefore, the occupation saves lives.

[Stevelegh]

Easy.

If Israel withdrew from the territories:

1) More Israelis would be within rocket range

2) More Palestinians would be able to enter Israel and stab Israelis.

Therefore, the occupation saves lives.

Sorry, extending one's borders in the name of security isn't justification and in this case its used as nothing more than an excuse. You know its a land grab as does everyone who's spent more than 30 minutes looking at the facts. How many rockets have been fired from the West Bank? You're being dishonest.

As far as Israelis being stabbed, I'm really sorry about the Imtar murders as are most decent people, but don't try and make those people out to be martyrs in isolation. There have been more innocent Palestinian civilians killed as a result of the occupation this year, so no. The occupation does not save lives.

[Anondragon2012]

Easy.

If Israel withdrew from the territories:

1) More Israelis would be within rocket range

2) More Palestinians would be able to enter Israel and stab Israelis.

Therefore, the occupation saves lives.

Maybe you should just wipe out the entire Palestinian people, then you would be entirely safe.

[Jaccogo]

Maybe you should just wipe out the entire Palestinian people, then you would be entirely safe.

just wipe out everyone except the israelis and have them repopulate the world

that way only perfect, loving, honest, people would be created

[Stevelegh]

Maybe you should just wipe out the entire Palestinian people, then you would be entirely safe.

That's what's been happening over the last 65 years. Sharon's plan was to keep taking slowly disappearing the indigenous. Why do you think Israel always has an 'existential threat' ? War is a very easy pretext for colonialism.

[Stevelegh]

just wipe out everyone except the israelis and have them repopulate the world

that way only perfect, loving, honest, people would be created

They can't even repopuate in Palestine to give themselves a clear majority....

[ll ReNeGaDe ll]

Sorry, extending one's borders in the name of security isn't justification and in this case its used as nothing more than an excuse. You know its a land grab as does everyone who's spent more than 30 minutes looking at the facts. How many rockets have been fired from the West Bank? You're being dishonest.

As far as Israelis being stabbed, I'm really sorry about the Imtar murders as are most decent people, but don't try and make those people out to be martyrs in isolation. There have been more innocent Palestinian civilians killed as a result of the occupation this year, so no. The occupation does not save lives.

The fact that the occupation prevents Palestinians from infiltrating and stabbing Israeli babies while they sleep on a regular basis, alone is proof that the occupation saves lives.

0 Palestinians have been killed as a result of the occupation, they have been killed as a result of other factors.

To say that occupation isn't justified even though the occupier's nation would be dying in larger numbers without it... Is well, crazy. You're essentially saying the Palestinian right to autonomy takes precedence over Israeli right to life

[ll ReNeGaDe ll]

Maybe you should just wipe out the entire Palestinian people, then you would be entirely safe.

I would be safe regardless. The residents of Israel would certainly be safe if that happened, sad isn't it? The thing about self preservation though, is by any means necessary. And genocide is certainly not necessary.

That's what's been happening over the last 65 years.

Except for the fact that Palestinians are one of the fastest growing populations in the world .

[Jaccogo]

The fact that the occupation prevents Palestinians from infiltrating and stabbing Israeli babies while they sleep on a regular basis, alone is proof that the occupation saves lives.

0 Palestinians have been killed as a result of the occupation, they have been killed as a result of other factors.

To say that occupation isn't justified even though the occupier's nation would be dying in larger numbers without it... Is well, crazy. You're essentially saying the Palestinian right to autonomy takes precedence over Israeli right to life

tristan andersen
bassam rahme
etc..

[ll ReNeGaDe ll]

tristan andersen
bassam rahme
etc..

- Attend protests where people throw stones at humans

- Get killed by teargas

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Deaths not due to occupation, only due to Darwinism.

[Jaccogo]

- Attend protests where people throw stones at humans

- Get killed by teargas

- Families then cry about it

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Deaths not due to occupation, only due to Darwinism.

You clearly are not familar with the circumstances of their deaths.

In both cases it was concluded that the victims were TARGETED by israeli forces. Also, in both cases there were many eye witnesses and video evidence yet no soldier was punished. ALSO, both people were not engaging in any protest at the time of bieng shot. Yes they were at sites were PEACEFUL protests were being held, but neither was actually protesting when shot. In fact Anderson was shot as he was leaving, as the protests had ended already. There was no justification for targeting unarmed peaceful civilians randomly like that with a teargas weapon which they knew had the potential to kill.

Rahme is dead, Anderson all of lost his memory as well as other injuries.

[Roke]

Easy.

If Israel withdrew from the territories:

1) More Israelis would be within rocket range

2) More Palestinians would be able to enter Israel and stab Israelis.

Therefore, the occupation saves lives.

The settlers must feel very happy knowing that they are being used as a distraction.

[Bigot32]

Agree with Anondragon2012 100%

[johnnycomehome]

You clearly are not familar with the circumstances of their deaths.

In both cases it was concluded that the victims were TARGETED by israeli forces. Also, in both cases there were many eye witnesses and video evidence yet no soldier was punished. ALSO, both people were not engaging in any protest at the time of bieng shot. Yes they were at sites were PEACEFUL protests were being held, but neither was actually protesting when shot. In fact Anderson was shot as he was leaving, as the protests had ended already. There was no justification for targeting unarmed peaceful civilians randomly like that with a teargas weapon which they knew had the potential to kill.

Rahme is dead, Anderson all of lost his memory as well as other injuries.

If that is what happened then that is obviously wrong. But, sorry, some 19 year old soldier with an iq of 95 does not represent Israeli policy or some kind of systematic campaign to target protesters

[Jaccogo]

If that is what happened then that is obviously wrong. But, sorry, some 19 year old soldier with an iq of 95 does not represent Israeli policy or some kind of systematic campaign to target protesters

"some solider"?

Those are the only two situations that I know enough about to comment on specifically, but I've briefly read about a lot more. Regardless,this is not simply a matter of Israeli solders being willing to kill Palestinians for no reason. The government covered up these deaths and THAT is the biggest issue here. Namely I feel that you should recognize that Israel breaks the law consistently every single day and simply denies it. They've gone as far to use this tactic of denial and control which the occupation has given them to hide civilian murders committed by their own army.

[Anondragon2012]

"some solider"?

Those are the only two situations that I know enough about to comment on specifically, but I've briefly read about a lot more. Regardless,this is not simply a matter of Israeli solders being willing to kill Palestinians for no reason. The government covered up these deaths and THAT is the biggest issue here. Namely I feel that you should recognize that Israel breaks the law consistently every single day and simply denies it. They've gone as far to use this tactic of denial and control which the occupation has given them to hide civilian murders committed by their own army.

The ironic part about all this is that Israel truly shot themselves in the foot with these actions.
In 1948, the entire world was ready to love Israel, even if the 1948 partition plan was completely ridiculous and made no sense whatsoever.

But the realization that essentially the Israeli government is criminal in nature, has made everybody forget why in the hell these people were to be supported in the first place.

That's why I always said Israeli foreign policy is the most idiotic in the world. Someone smart like Bismarck or even Ghandi would have never done this.
If the West did not unconditionally support Israel no matter its deeds, Israel would be totally isolated today and would probably fall as a state.

The only question is: How long can this go on? Will the West always support Israel? How about Russia/Syria/etc?
I think the key will unfortunately be in the conflicts to come.

Its not about right and wrong anymore...Its about who will win the next wars.

[ll ReNeGaDe ll]

You clearly are not familar with the circumstances of their deaths.

In both cases it was concluded that the victims were TARGETED by israeli forces. Also, in both cases there were many eye witnesses and video evidence yet no soldier was punished. ALSO, both people were not engaging in any protest at the time of bieng shot. Yes they were at sites were PEACEFUL protests were being held, but neither was actually protesting when shot. In fact Anderson was shot as he was leaving, as the protests had ended already. There was no justification for targeting unarmed peaceful civilians randomly like that with a teargas weapon which they knew had the potential to kill.

Rahme is dead, Anderson all of lost his memory as well as other injuries.

Maybe, but evidence of that remains zero. The only reason you believe it is because you are biased. Again, don't tell me what was concluded. Give me evidence that these people were targeted. Until you can do that, you have no choice but to admit that you are biased and irrational.

[Stevelegh]

Maybe, but evidence of that remains zero. The only reason you believe it is because you are biased. Again, don't tell me what was concluded. Give me evidence that these people were targeted. Until you can do that, you have no choice but to admit that you are biased and irrational.

This particular incident that lead to the death of the 14 year old target has been described as a 'sport hunting' incident.

http://www.btselem.org/firearms/2014...h_deir_al_asal

[Jaccogo]

Maybe, but evidence of that remains zero. The only reason you believe it is because you are biased. Again, don't tell me what was concluded. Give me evidence that these people were targeted. Until you can do that, you have no choice but to admit that you are biased and irrational.

What? I don't have access to the court records, however I can assure that in both cases, the court of law determined that each victim was most definitely targeted individually by israeli forces

[johnnycomehome]

This particular incident that lead to the death of the 14 year old target has been described as a 'sport hunting' incident.

http://www.btselem.org/firearms/2014...h_deir_al_asal

- entered forbidden zone, was shot in the leg (not a shot to kill).
- received medical treatment from Israelis but unfortunately bled to death
- sure it's messed up but it's not a targeted killing. The soldier didnt even shoot to kill ffs and they sent an ambulance from the base

[abdus]

Maybe, but evidence of that remains zero. The only reason you believe it is because you are biased. Again, don't tell me what was concluded. Give me evidence that these people were targeted. Until you can do that, you have no choice but to admit that you are biased and irrational.

A bit rich coming from you

[Stevelegh]

- entered forbidden zone, was shot in the leg (not a shot to kill).
- received medical treatment from Israelis but unfortunately bled to death
- sure it's messed up but it's not a targeted killing. The soldier didnt even shoot to kill ffs and they sent an ambulance from the base

Not only are you defending the indefensible Johnny, you're missing the point. The kid was collecting plants, was unarmed, and clearly a child. He was shot for fun.

[ll ReNeGaDe ll]

This particular incident that lead to the death of the 14 year old target has been described as a 'sport hunting' incident.

http://www.btselem.org/firearms/2014...h_deir_al_asal

Yes, that is how it was described, evidence that the description is accurate remains at zero

What? I don't have access to the court records, however I can assure that in both cases, the court of law determined that each victim was most definitely targeted individually by israeli forces

Which courts?

[Jaccogo]

Which courts?

israeli ones, what else?

[ll ReNeGaDe ll]

israeli ones, what else?

Link to court's conclusion that they were intentionally targeted