Why you may not need Incline Bench

[CompoundUK]

Not lagging imo, at least for a high insertion. Still hit it hard with OHP, that should be your focus movement. Pullovers are actually primarily a lat exercise, basically the DB version of straight arm pulldowns. its common to get a chest and tri pump with it though

If you're high, stop incline. The whole "you need an incline bench movement to hit the upper chest" stemmed from the time period where people knew NOTHING about insertions or genetics. It came from the same people who thought you could shape your muscles with exercises. The info in this thread is relatively new, if it was popular, I wouldn't need to make this thread.


You can't isolate between the two heads. And I don't know why you would want to prioritize the sternocostal head with a high insertion

Thanks man, I find this type of thing very interesting as well. My source is Dante Trudel and reading through Spiderman997's posts. Not sure where the original post by Dante came from. As far as learning more about insertions, theres not really one source that I go through, I kinda just browse a ton of different websites, exrx.net is a good site to learn from for the most part, although they don't have much on topics like this

I don't remember you listing Jones. Thats defintely low however.

Deadlifts
Weighted Pull Ups
Straight Arm Pulldowns (one of the best back iso's imo, love the contraction for it)
Incline DB Curls
DB Rows
Face Pulls

Straight Arm Pulldowns could be replaced with barbell, cable or tbar rows

I can't tell anything from that pic.

If you have a high insertion, always start out with OHP. The reason most people start out with a bench movement is because they are under the impression that it is one of the best mass builders for the upper body. That is true for someone with a lower insertion, because their shoulder girdle responds well to the bench. With a high insertion, your best mass builder will be the OHP.

You are low

I cannot tell from your avi. Try out decline bench though if shoulders are affecting your flat bench


What do you mean by making OHP more stable? I also saw the same type of progression with chest and bench once I put a huge focus on OHP though. Keep it up man

Slight incline of 20-30 degrees. Reverse grip barbell bench is on Dante's recommended exercise list for triceps. I never tried it, so I can't really give you a valid opinion on that one


You could do OHP on both days, or just one, although if you just it on one day, shoulder day would make more sense. Does not matter if you're standing or seated. Standing would be better, but my ceiling is too short as well, so I've been forced to do them seated and have seen good results

My left shoulder specially just feels a bit unstable feels like it want to go backwards a bit on OHP and bench. also my OHP is only about 15kg lighter for my working sets than my flat bench now which is pretty close compared to a lot of people i ask. could havign the high insertions mean you are naturally quite efficient at OHP compared to direct chest work like bench press? standing OHP is fast becoming my favourite push movement for sure so ill keep hitting it hard. thanks for this thread man, interesting and useful

[IvanKoay]

Bump

[Tb0282]

I'm on an upper/lower body split and i have high insertions, so tell me if this is a good upper body routine
-3 sets ohp
-3 sets of some kind of chest exercises, please tell me which one i should do
-3 set t bar rows
-3 sets of lateral raise/ facepulls
-2 sets of shrugs
-2 sets tricep rope pulldown

This is what I would do

OHP
Pulldown / Chin Ups
Chest movement or iso
Row
Side Laterals / Face Pulls
Triceps
Biceps

My left shoulder specially just feels a bit unstable feels like it want to go backwards a bit on OHP and bench. also my OHP is only about 15kg lighter for my working sets than my flat bench now which is pretty close compared to a lot of people i ask. could havign the high insertions mean you are naturally quite efficient at OHP compared to direct chest work like bench press? standing OHP is fast becoming my favourite push movement for sure so ill keep hitting it hard. thanks for this thread man, interesting and useful

I think delt work will help with stabilizing your shoulder, a combination of OHP, side laterals and face pulls should work. And yes, thats exactly what a high insertion does, makes a person more suited to OHP variations

Bump

thank you sir

[Rheel]

Thread pretty much compiles everything about incline benching that i had to learn on my own overall several months and trial and error...good job OP.

[aezthetik]

thanks for your help, for the chest movement incline bench is out of the picture or can I just do it with dumbbells?

This is what I would do

OHP
Pulldown / Chin Ups
Chest movement or iso
Row
Side Laterals / Face Pulls
Triceps
Biceps


I think delt work will help with stabilizing your shoulder, a combination of OHP, side laterals and face pulls should work. And yes, thats exactly what a high insertion does, makes a person more suited to OHP variations

thank you sir

[Tb0282]

thanks for your help, for the chest movement incline bench is out of the picture or can I just do it with dumbbells?

out of the picture, its the angle not the barbell lol

[JohnJenkins04]

Can I do inclines on shoulder day lol to work my front delt? Also any specific way to do OHP to hit my chest?

[JohnJenkins04]

I think I found the old school alternative to incline. I was talking to a couple of the coaches at the U of M while watching my son at throwing camp and one suggested Neider presses. I tried them last night for the first time. they are way harder then they look.

Interesting I wonder what OP thinks of this?

[Karim1997]

I still can't grasp the idea the OHP is better than Incline,Flat or Decline bench for people with high insertions.

[Tb0282]

Can I do inclines on shoulder day lol to work my front delt? Also any specific way to do OHP to hit my chest?

Why would you want to do that? OHP will be your best movement for shoulder girdle development (upper chest, delts and traps). And no, there is not specific way to do OHP for chest emphasis.

Interesting I wonder what OP thinks of this?

I think it could be a great assistance movement to the OHP, but not a substitution. What makes the OHP effective for people who have a high inserted clavicular head is the plane of motion.

I still can't grasp the idea the OHP is better than Incline,Flat or Decline bench for people with high insertions.

Xuaxace said it best.

igh insertion = clavicular head fibers run fairly vertically, amost in a similar fashion than the nearby front delt, thus work in a very similar mechanical position (shoulder flexion)
Low insertion = clavicular head runs fairly horizontal, thus the normal low incline presses (which tends to mean a more flared out elbow) and the weights being brough to the middle/upper chest will hit the upper chest very hard. (transverse flexion)

[Karim1997]

Xuaxace said it best.

I understand that, I mean what if you always started with Flat/Decline, then went to incline, wouldn't it be the same? Sorry for the repetitive questions.

[Tb0282]

I understand that, I mean what if you always started with Flat/Decline, then went to incline, wouldn't it be the same? Sorry for the repetitive questions.

No. You're always supposed to start with your weak points. And as I've said again and again, your shoulder girdle will respond best to OHP when you have a high insertion. With a low insertion, your shoulder girdle will respond best to bench, only then should you start with bench.

[Karim1997]

No. You're always supposed to start with your weak points. And as I've said again and again, your shoulder girdle will respond best to OHP when you have a high insertion. With a low insertion, your shoulder girdle will respond best to bench, only then should you start with bench.

So you mean that OHP would be better than Flat/Decline Bench for OVERALL chest development?

[Tb0282]

So you mean that OHP would be better than Flat/Decline Bench for OVERALL chest development?

for chest no. For overall development, yes.

For a high insertion, OHP are like squats. Squats will develop your lower body best. You can use leg press and develop nice quads, but you can still have a lagging lower body because leg press is not best for glutes, hips etc

Do you get what I mean?

[Karim1997]

for chest no. For overall development, yes.

For a high insertion, OHP are like squats. Squats will develop your lower body best. You can use leg press and develop nice quads, but you can still have a lagging lower body because leg press is not best for glutes, hips etc

Do you get what I mean?

Yeah that makes perfect sense, thanks for the explanation bro. Repped. That's exactly why Flat/Decline bench should be the accessory movement. OHHHHH.

[the5thhorseman]

Haven't been doing that many overhead movements. I will do overhead movements before my chest and take pictures 6 months down the line to see if I made an improvement and will be bumping up the thread.

[v1k70r]

Can you tell from the pics i added in my profile?

[Aasemd]

What can you tell from this

[crazdave]

for chest no. For overall development, yes.

For a high insertion, OHP are like squats. Squats will develop your lower body best. You can use leg press and develop nice quads, but you can still have a lagging lower body because leg press is not best for glutes, hips etc

Do you get what I mean?

Squats do develop your quads though still, this implies that OHP will still develop your chest? Am I right in saying that? Like if you completely left out any benching movement and just did OHP would your chest get enough stimulus to grow and get stronger?

[jamesovercome]

What can you tell from this

Your tattoo artist was blind

[Tb0282]

What can you tell from this
[img]http://imageshack.us/a/img687/291/3aw3.jpg[/ig]

No I cannot

Squats do develop your quads though still, this implies that OHP will still develop your chest? Am I right in saying that? Like if you completely left out any benching movement and just did OHP would your chest get enough stimulus to grow and get stronger?

You missed the point. What I meant is that squats are better for total lower body development. In the same way, OHPs are better for overall shoulder girdle development. In both scenarios you should still do leg press/bench variation, but it should be used as the accessory movement.

[linton5]

What about me?

[Karim1997]

OP does this mean you have a high clavicular insertion you're killing two birds with one stone doing OHP first right? So does this mean you can deduct the volume for the total sets for chest?

E.g.

High Clavicular Insertion:

Overhead Press: 4 sets of 5 – 8 reps
Decline Barbell Bench Press: 4 sets of 5 – 8 reps
Side Laterals: 3 sets of 10 – 15 reps
Pec Deck: 4 sets of 12 – 15 reps
Skull Crushers: 5 sets of 6 – 8 reps
Rope Extensions: 4 sets of 10 – 15 reps

Low Clavicular Insertion:

Incline Dumbbell Press: 3 sets of 6 – 8 reps
Flat Barbell Press: 3 sets of 10 – 12 reps
Fly Movement: 3 sets of 12 – 15 reps
Dumbbell Shoulder Press: 3 sets of 8 – 10 reps
Side Laterals: 3 sets of 10 – 15 reps
Skull Crushers: 5 sets of 6 – 8 reps
Rope Extensions: 4 sets of 10 – 15 reps

[MrPsychic]

Very interesting thread, made me wonder what I have. From reading this topic and seeing others, I'd guess I'm high, true?

i.imgur . com/BedZiqJ.jpg

*can't post images*

[yettiatcpg]

Interesting I wonder what OP thinks of this?

worked on these again today. I'm doing much better and my speeds coming up

[hostelmaniac]

worked on these again today. I'm doing much better and my speeds coming up

Exercise looks like it would destroy my shoulders, especially if i put some weight on the bar

[bulkbreh]

Are people really this f*cking stupid???


If you feel you're dont delta and upper chest need work then do incline. If not then your good, buncha f*ckng idots man...

[DemGains13]

low or high?

[thyce]

interesting idea, ive tried it though and i have issues with it

shoulders are a very big genetic strong point for me, theyve literally grown to the point they are now from just benching, ive never really focused on shoulders at all and theyre my strongest body part

when i try to do OHP, im very weak for a start, my max would be around 40kg (88 lbs) which is terrible, but i just find it really hard, also whenever i do the movement i feel all of the stress on my delts, no upper chest at all

any ideas?

[JohnJenkins04]

Are people really this f*cking stupid???


If you feel you're dont delta and upper chest need work then do incline. If not then your good, buncha f*ckng idots man...

Nice grammar d*ck wad