Help! Gaining

[Pepperrr]

Ive only started to go to the gym weight training and increasing my cardio a lot in the pat few weeks. I'm a vegetarian and I eat very well tryin as hard as I can to fit in all my protein etc.. And stayibg waaaayyy under calories But since I e started trying to lose weight I have gained two kilos!! I'm only 20 an my boyfriend is a gym junkie so he helps me but I just can't seem to lose it! Any tips?

[EvinHoll]

Ive only started to go to the gym weight training and increasing my cardio a lot in the pat few weeks. I'm a vegetarian and I eat very well tryin as hard as I can to fit in all my protein etc.. And stayibg waaaayyy under calories But since I e started trying to lose weight I have gained two kilos!! I'm only 20 an my boyfriend is a gym junkie so he helps me but I just can't seem to lose it! Any tips?

Well "waaaayyy under calories" is very vague. What's your maintenance and how many calories are you actually eating? Too big of a deficit won't give you very good results.

[BEEvon]

Start with this sticky:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121703921

Chances are what your seeing in natural fluid retention and not fat gains.

Target where your calories need to be in order to lose fat. Weigh and measure your food portions in grams.

[Pepperrr]

Well "waaaayyy under calories" is very vague. What's your maintenance and how many calories are you actually eating? Too big of a deficit won't give you very good results.

I struggle to eat most things, I run my own business and rarely get time to eat. I snack on stuff at work but it's hard being so busy! Thank you

[Pepperrr]

Start with this sticky:



Chances are what your seeing in natural fluid retention and not fat gains.

Target where your calories need to be in order to lose fat. Weigh and measure your food portions in grams.

Thank you! I had a look through some threads but I'd only signed up yesterday. I as just curious because over the past month I have been gaining a lot of muscle but not enough to gain 2kg's.
I have been feeling slimmer I was just freaking out! Thank you again.

[kimm4]

How can you be gaining and feeling slimmer? Some of the things you women say on these forums makes no sense at all. If it's been a month and you are gaining, you are eating too many calories, not too little. Because you have more to lose, you should have seen a drop within the first few weeks if you are sticking to your calorie deficit.

Something is off in the way you're tracking and you need to fix it.

[Pepperrr]

How can you be gaining and feeling slimmer? Some of the things you women say on these forums makes no sense at all. If it's been a month and you are gaining, you are eating too many calories, not too little. Because you have more to lose, you should have seen a drop within the first few weeks if you are sticking to your calorie deficit.

Something is off in the way you're tracking and you need to fix it.

I only eat about 600 calories and most of it is trying to get in protein and other nutritions. I try to eat as much as I can but can't because of work even taking food to work. I think my metabolism is stuffed up. There is no way I eat too many.
I am 2kg heavier yet my hips are much smaller and I don't have as much cellulite. My partner is a body builder and i am doing a lot of weight training but I don't get it. I've only been doing this for a few months and am extremely new to this I'm just here for help not to be judged. Thanks

[kimm4]

I only eat about 600 calories and most of it is trying to get in protein and other nutritions. I try to eat as much as I can but can't because of work even taking food to work. I think my metabolism is stuffed up. There is no way I eat too many.
I am 2kg heavier yet my hips are much smaller and I don't have as much cellulite. My partner is a body builder and i am doing a lot of weight training but I don't get it. I've only been doing this for a few months and am extremely new to this I'm just here for help not to be judged. Thanks

I'm not here to judge, I'm telling you straight up what you need to do. If you were truly eating 600 calories at your stats, the weight would be falling off of you. Let's be honest, you're not at the weight you are today because you undereat. You're tracking is off and you're eating more than you think. Get yourself in the proper deficit, weigh, measure and track all of your foods accordingly.

A basic calorie deficit works for everyone...there are no special snowflakes.

[LHarwood]

I only eat about 600 calories and most of it is trying to get in protein and other nutritions. I try to eat as much as I can but can't because of work even taking food to work. I think my metabolism is stuffed up. There is no way I eat too many.
I am 2kg heavier yet my hips are much smaller and I don't have as much cellulite. My partner is a body builder and i am doing a lot of weight training but I don't get it. I've only been doing this for a few months and am extremely new to this I'm just here for help not to be judged. Thanks

I find it very hard to believe your eating 600 cals. How do you know of you dont weigh, track and measure your intake? . You'd be surprised at how much you might eat without consciously knowin about it.

If you truly were eating what you say you are then its impossible you've gained any muscle and I'd find it very hard to believe you'd be able to lift enough for your muscles to be aware your targeting them. (Figuratively speaking)

Do as the ladies have advised and you'll be on the right track.

[M8Bro]

Vouching for Pepper's consistency and training intensity.
Her BMR SHOULD be around 1400-1500 a day, and that's calculated at the lower end of the activity scale.
She usually trains 5-6 times a week with moderate to high intensity.
Pepper has made strength gains every week(as you would expect from a beginner lifter) and muscle gains(again, as you would expect from a beginner) since beginning.

Pepper is following a body part split at the moment as it is the easiest to co-ordinate with my days at the gym, and best suited for her.
Split is as follows.
Mon: Shoulders
Tues: Cardio/Abs
Wed: Back/biceps
Thurs: Cardio
Fri: Chest/Tri
Sat: Legs

There hasn't been a day in the last 2-3 weeks where she hasn't gone below 1200 calories.
And yet she still isn't losing weight.

I think there is an under lying issue here where some form of metabolic damage has occurred due to eating so little.
Causing her to still be in a surplus even at 1200 calories.

There is no need to assume the worst when someone makes a post stating they aren't losing weight at a deficit because it doesn't adhere to your idea of what is possible.

I have know pepper for a long time and I have seen her lose weight eating MORE food.

A video by Layne Norton addressing the issue of Metabolic Damage.

[rockangel]

If the above is true, then i would bring cals up to mainenance.... and eat there for a while.

Scrap that crappy training program and find a full body 3 day program, drop the cardio. You dont need a whole day of Abs....

IF (and thats a big if) the issue is a "damaged metabolism" from under eating.... then doing a crap ton of training and undearting the BMR is NOT the way to restore the body.

And if she HAS been eating at 600 as SHE claims and then ups the cals to 1200 then i would expect to see some weight gain on the scale due to water and glycogen.

Although im with kimm, you dont get to 176 eating at 600 cals even with a "damaged" metabolism.... so lets say im skeptical of those claims.

Either way, the progam is crap and should be changed.

[rebeckyt]

My suggestion would be to start taking body measurements instead of using the scale. If you put on muscle and do not lose any bodyfat, you will weight more. You will also weight less if you cut off your arm. Do not focus on weight alone. Hopefully you will find a way to track your food intake and get your nutrition in check. It's not all about the protein as you do need fats and carbs as well. Good luck with your goals.

[kimm4]

"damaged" metabolism.... so lets say im skeptical of those claims.

Yup...I want to scream everytime I see that godamn vid...

It has become quite the catch phrase among dieters who want to believe it applies to them.

[kimm4]

I have know pepper for a long time and I have seen her lose weight eating MORE food.

Yes, I'm sure you follow her around and watch her eat 24/7...

Hopefully the OP will get it all figured out.

[rockangel]

Yup...I want to scream everytime I see that godamn vid...

It has become quite the catch phrase among dieters who want to believe it applies to them.

I love layne, i love his vids, but this one gives another excuse to use.

And i dont get the " oh i believe she has damaged her matobolism, so to fix it im gonna have her do a split of a healthy, experienced, male lifter, - workout 6 days a week and starve her"

Cause that makes total sense on how to fix the situation 0_o

[M8Bro]

My suggestion would be to start taking body measurements instead of using the scale. If you put on muscle and do not lose any bodyfat, you will weight more. You will also weight less if you cut off your arm. Do not focus on weight alone. Hopefully you will find a way to track your food intake and get your nutrition in check. It's not all about the protein as you do need fats and carbs as well. Good luck with your goals.

Thanks for the constructive answer!

Yup...I want to scream everytime I see that godamn vid...

It has become quite the catch phrase among dieters who want to believe it applies to them.

So you're refuting Laynes claims?
What has given you the impression that Metabolic Damage isn't applicable in this case?
Or do you strictly not believe in it?

Yes, I'm sure you follow her around and watch her eat 24/7...

Hopefully the OP will get it all figured out.

No, I just trust her.
She has no reason to lie on an anonymous forum, the only thing she could gain from it is advice that wouldn't apply to her, thus hampering her efforts to achieve her goal.

I love layne, i love his vids, but this one gives another excuse to use.

And i dont get the " oh i believe she has damaged her matobolism, so to fix it im gonna have her do a split of a healthy, experienced, male lifter, - workout 6 days a week and starve her"

Cause that makes total sense on how to fix the situation 0_o

I understand your aversion to a beginner doing a split, but we have tried full body routines before and it wasn't for her.
I would prefer that she enjoyed going to gym.
So it was the better choice, and that was her choice.

I would hardly see Metabolic Damage as an excuse.
More an explanation to a common problem that I could see a lot of overweight people suffering from.
Starving yourself is nothing new, but recent evidence has been brought to the table that explains why starvation, or near to, won't achieve the desired results.

[kimm4]

I love layne, i love his vids, but this one gives another excuse to use.

And i dont get the " oh i believe she has damaged her matobolism, so to fix it im gonna have her do a split of a healthy, experienced, male lifter, - workout 6 days a week and starve her"

Cause that makes total sense on how to fix the situation 0_o

I've always liked Layne, but that vid drives me nuts...

[rockangel]

I've always liked Layne, but that vid drives me nuts...

I like the vid when applied correctly. He has some great points, but i think people dont listen to the whole thing and only latch on to the "metabolic damage" lable so they can use it as an excuse.

[rockangel]

Thanks for the constructive answer!



So you're refuting Laynes claims?
What has given you the impression that Metabolic Damage isn't applicable in this case?
Or do you strictly not believe in it?



No, I just trust her.
She has no reason to lie on an anonymous forum, the only thing she could gain from it is advice that wouldn't apply to her, thus hampering her efforts to achieve her goal.



I understand your aversion to a beginner doing a split, but we have tried full body routines before and it wasn't for her.
I would prefer that she enjoyed going to gym.
So it was the better choice, and that was her choice.

I would hardly see Metabolic Damage as an excuse.
More an explanation to a common problem that I could see a lot of overweight people suffering from.
Starving yourself is nothing new, but recent evidence has been brought to the table that explains why starvation, or near to, won't achieve the desired results.

In this case, its an excuse because you are training and dieting the COMPLETE opposite of what needs to be done to address the issue.

And no, this is NOT why over weight people cant lose weight. Overweight people did not become overweight by underating calories.

Let me explain here, ive done the 600 cal a day diet for MONTHS, and still not "damaged" my metabolism. Did i piss off a whole bunch of muscle thus causing my metabolism to drop because i didnt have much cal burning tissue left. You betcha!! Thats how i got skinny fat and ended up undermuscled.

This is a person who is new to training, who has been eating incorrectly for some time, and who may not have a lot of LBM and who has put on weight, fat pressumably.

Its highly unlikley that her metabolism is damaged and it is more likely that she is tracking incorrectly and/or doing too much work on too little cals (crappy diet and training).

Either way, you dont take a female who you suspect of having a metabolic disorder, work her out 6 days a week on a split meant for a healthy experienced male, and then STARVE her in order to get her to her goals.

You are moving a$$ backwards in either case and you are using your ego and excuses as justification for the bad advice you have given.

[kimm4]

What has given you the impression that Metabolic Damage isn't applicable in this case?

OP is only 20 yrs old. Do I think she's spent a good portion of her life dieting and constantly starving/undereating in calories? Honestly, I don't. I feel it's an error in the way of tracking and nothing more.

I spent over a decade constantly dieting down and competing non stop in one show after another. I've always used very aggressive deficits for long periods of time. Never suffered any kind of metabolic damage...not even once.

[M8Bro]

In this case, its an excuse because you are training and dieting the COMPLETE opposite of what needs to be done to address the issue.

And no, this is NOT why over weight people cant lose weight. Overweight people did not become overweight by underating calories.

Let me explain here, ive done the 600 cal a day diet for MONTHS, and still not "damaged" my metabolism. Did i piss off a whole bunch of muscle thus causing my metabolism to drop because i didnt have much cal burning tissue left. You betcha!! Thats how i got skinny fat and ended up undermuscled.

This is a person who is new to training, who has been eating incorrectly for some time, and who may not have a lot of LBM and who has put on weight, fat pressumably.

Its highly unlikley that her metabolism is damaged and it is more likely that she is tracking incorrectly and/or doing too much work on too little cals (crappy diet and training).

Either way, you dont take a female who you suspect of having a metabolic disorder, work her out 6 days a week on a split meant for a healthy experienced male, and then STARVE her in order to get her to her goals.

You are moving a$$ backwards in either case and you are using your ego and excuses as justification for the bad advice you have given.

Well please then, enlighten me as to how you would approach the issue.
An avenue we could pursue is slowly returning to maintenance and moving from there.

"And no, this is NOT why over weight people cant lose weight. Overweight people did not become overweight by underating calories."
In any part did I ever state that overweight people would go from a regular healthy weight to overweight simply by undereating?
No, I stated that this may be a cause for the lack of progress towards the ideal weight they want.

I will agree that 1200 calories is too little, but it is not my choice to make as to how much she wants to consume.
And will see to suggesting that training is less aggressive in the future.

[rockangel]

Uh duh!! i would approach it just how layne says to in the video.... that is to increase cals slowly up to maintanance and sit there for a while, watch the video all the way through and take some friggin notes. he even talks about how to train in this situation...

Overweight people do not stop losing weight due to metabolic damage. They dont lose weight either because they dont track correctly or they started their diet too aggressively (ie too much work on too little cals).... i have yet to see any overweight client who can not lose weight when lowering cals and increasing activity. True for all mammals.

I suggested a 3 day split as a reduction in training volume so that she can reap the benefits of weight training, while allowing her body to rest and heal.

I am allowing that there is the slimmest possiblity of damage, only because i believe we may be missing some info. Maybe there is an ED we dont know, maybe her parents are hippies and she was malnourished before all this, maybe she has super bad genetics, i dont know.....

But if you really believed she has metabolic damage a la Layne Norton, then why the he ll would you be training and dieting the complete opposite of what he suggestes????

Honestly, her body probably adjusted to the lower cals and high volume of work (normal by the way) in which the advice would be the same, go to maintence, sit there for a bit and change the training to a lower volume plan.......

[M8Bro]

You just reiterated what I said would be an avenue/the thing to do.
I posted the layne video, so obviously I have watched it before.
No need for the condescending attitude.

I appreciate the effort you've put into the post,
I have only recently just seen the Layne video, infact I only saw it yesterday.
So I haven't really had time to adjust her diet/program accordingly.
I'm glad I've gained more insight into this section of the forums and will take note for future reference.

[rockangel]

You just reiterated what I said would be an avenue/the thing to do.
I posted the layne video, so obviously I have watched it before.
No need for the condescending attitude.

I appreciate the effort you've put into the post,
I have only recently just seen the Layne video, infact I only saw it yesterday.
So I haven't really had time to adjust her diet/program accordingly.
I'm glad I've gained more insight into this section of the forums and will take note for future reference.

Sorry, i find it super annoying when someone, but especially a dude, comes in and says they diagnosed a female with metabolic damage (yesterday) and puts them on a split because its convienant for the male's training needs, then proceeds to tell us why we are all wrong for not believing that she is not losing weight on super low cals because it obviously metabolic damage. And to top it off, contends that starving said female and and training them on a high volume split is not only helping her reach her goals, but is the correct thing to do AFTER referencing the expert that says its completely incorrect.

So sorry if it comes off a bit annoyed at the amount of misinformation and bad advice that was given.