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02-01-2013, 06:43 AM #151
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02-01-2013, 07:50 AM #152
So after reading through this thread again and prefacing this with “my opinion only", I don’t see a whole lot of disagreement really, other than terminology and the way it is implemented…a point made earlier though that gets to the bottom of what I was trying to point out, and an example of something with which I would totally disagree are statements like this:
If there were clearly “zero ramifications” then why would most competitors and even Layne himself, since this thread was started with his video, not have as ANY part of their competition prep articles ice cream, pop tarts, or anything like that as daily dietary examples? (could it be that clearly there is not ZERO ramifications even in moderation?)
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne29.htm 16 weeks out
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne31.htm 9 weeks out
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne32.htm 5 weeks out
How about Amer Kamra, Amy Jo Palmquest, and Artus Shakur?
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ripp...-the-pros.html
How about the first let’s say 50 male transformation articles on this site? Here are 3 just to get you started...
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/body...-dis-this.html
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/body...on-muscle.html
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/body...uffer-ben.html
My overall point being that after one achieves their transformation goals, or their body building competitive goals, or their physique competitive goals, is it then o.k. as a maintenance part of our daily lives to have theses things as a moderate part of our overall diet, clearly it is, because I already said earlier I agreed with the video…but is it a “necessary” part to have some kind of “joy” or enjoyment of life? For some I guess so, for others such as myself no.. And I know many others who are clearly "sane", highly successful, and quite well adjusted that do not feel it’s a necessity either. I can find many other things in life now that give me much more enjoyment then sitting behind a gallon of Ben and Jerry’s or a box of Pop Tarts, it’s just not necessary for me even in so called moderation…I liken it to alcoholism (figuratively not literally), if you had a problem with it in the past then it is far better, and yes recommended and encouraged, to stay as far away from it as possible, if you never had a problem with it then everything in moderation if just fine for you!
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02-01-2013, 08:11 AM #153
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02-01-2013, 08:14 AM #154
- Join Date: Sep 2010
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I find it funny when posters resort to absurd examples of ice cream consumption, for example, while often consuming more processed forms of the same basic ingredients contained in the very "treat" they condem.
For example, how often do we read a poster vilifying ice cream and how often do we read posts expressing one's "clean" diet that contains processed whey supplements, processed casein supplements and processed dextrose supplements....where premium ice cream contains those basic nutrients in whole or minimally processed form and premium ice cream can also contain vastly more micronutrients.
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02-01-2013, 08:15 AM #155
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02-01-2013, 08:21 AM #156
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02-01-2013, 08:21 AM #157
First off, if you actually talked to multiple people on here, esp. the natty BBers who compete, etc... there are people who DO have ice cream, etc.. during prep... that's been stated numerous times. Some have even drank SODA (gasp). I agree that there can't be ZERO ramifications, as some people may have health issues, allergies, etc.. that a certain food could "spike". And I know people who never ate like that either, stick to their ways, highly successful, sane, and didn't feel it was necessary either... but after they TRIED another way.. guess what? They changed their minds and are still successful, healthy, sane, etc.. and said "wow was I ignorant for all these years". And why does everyone keep classifying ice cream and pop tarts all the time? I can't name ONE person that I know who actually eats pop-tarts... or that much ice cream for that matter. And just because you can't enjoy things in moderation doesn't mean others can't... I was a fatty... ate a half gallon of ice cream every night, tons of pizza/breadsticks and ranch dressing, drank massive amounts of soda, etc.. Now I use moderation and still consume those items and I never ballooned back up, or it never hurt me.. or my friend... or the other people I know who understand nutrition. Only thing that happened with me was my blood tests came out clean, blood pressure dropped, gained more muscle, lost body fat, was able to do cardio more, and lost my obsessive cravings because I still enjoy the food. Sorry if it comes across like I'm picking on you, but you really do have a one-track mind.
Learning something new here every single day... and I'm still not sure if I understand : /
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02-01-2013, 08:37 AM #158
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I'm curious why you selected Layne's prep from 9 years ago as an example of what he currently does?
It also seems you had issues with food moderation in the past that influence your current eating habits.
As Pug mentioned, too many people seem to use grossly exagerated examples in their criticism of allowing "forbidden" foods in ones diet.
In my case, I've been much more successful in my body-comp goals by being less OCD in my approach. It's obvious that what you do is working, but many of us have found success following a different path.
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02-01-2013, 08:37 AM #159
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02-01-2013, 08:54 AM #160
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02-01-2013, 09:15 AM #161
Don't feel it's picking at all, this is an open forum so you are free to disagree with anything on here...I do feel it is ironic though that you made my exact overriding point in an earlier post you made when you said this:
QUOTE=n0useforaname;1018670633]Like Rand said, most do just say that... The problem is, the majority who come here are looking for a "miracle diet" that doesn't exist. And when they hear IIFYM, eat whatever you want and lose weight, they stick to that acronym and think "wow, I can eat whatever I want and lose weight". Where I work at, people literally would eat pop-tarts all day long just to lose weight, and not care about anything else.[/QUOTE]
This is what I mean when the general public gets on here and views these things and then takes it to an extreme…do many on here in the fitness industry or trained athletes or people that understand this stuff? No…but that is what I am taking about when I use those examples…and the only reason I use ice cream and pop tarts is because those examples are used on here…and if you are really unaware of the hundreds of ice cream eating threads on here these are a few...
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ight=ice+cream
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ight=ice+cream
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02-01-2013, 09:21 AM #162
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02-01-2013, 09:33 AM #163
As usual, Dr. Norton makes a lot of excellent points here. Not the least of which is his view on nutritional "elitism," and all the bs about 'eating "clean" or you'll looz all yer gainz.'
I see it all over this site, and is likely the major cause of noobs just giving up and quitting altogether.Last edited by ironwill2008; 02-01-2013 at 09:38 AM.
No brain, no gain.
"The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon
Where the mind goes, the body follows.
Ironwill Gym:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=629719403&postcount=3388
Ironwill2008 Journal:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=157459343&p=1145168733
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02-01-2013, 10:11 AM #164
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02-01-2013, 10:13 AM #165
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02-01-2013, 10:18 AM #166
Because the video posted was his and that was the only specific articles I could find on this site that dealt with contest prep and gave specific examples of each meal...if his contest prep has changed then I could not find any articles on this site of that except for when he speak in general terms as in the video. The other 4 were all current and there are hundreds of transformation articles in 2012 alone that reference the same thing...and understand as I said earlier, I do see people that have had success following a different path, I guess I just still contend that when someone jumps on here and looks at an ice cream thread and that person has a really strong avi, or picture, or successful stats sitting next to a picture of themselves eating from a gallon of their favorite ice cream (whether they are actually consuming the whole thing or not) it has the possibility of being detrimental to their own weight loss success...and yes I was someone at one time that if I sat down and ate 1 Oreo cookie I then ate the whole bag (with a half gallon of milk) and I see many people that do or have done the exact same thing...that's why I actually disagree that those are "extreme and moronic" examples, as someone else put on here...I think they are much closer to the norm in people that struggle with weight loss and obesity, absent of any medical condition of course.
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02-01-2013, 10:27 AM #167
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02-01-2013, 10:35 AM #168
Do you honestly believe this? If so please explain...as my socialization has skyrocketed since I started eating so called "clean" or "strict" (or whatever words one wants to use) as I feel better about myself, I still eat at some of the finest restaurants around, go out frequently on the weekends, and have a much greater quality of life then I did just a few years ago! I waste less time cooking my own food then I did before and actually spend less money per week on food...so all around this is just not the case...at least not with me, the people I work and train with, and many other transformation stories that I read on here...
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02-01-2013, 10:39 AM #169
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02-01-2013, 10:40 AM #170
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Ironically, the diets listed in the links you provided are acutely micronutrient deficient and contain hazardous intake of tuna. And they contain a large amount of processed food.
Here's an example from the links you provided:
Meal 1: 1 whole egg, 4 egg whites and no fat cheese on a whole wheat high fiber bread 35/16/5
Meal 2: Chicken breast with ½ tablespoon of peanut butter 40/3/9
Meal 3: Low fat popcorn, egg white and turkey sandwich with low fat cheese 40/65/6.5
Meal 4 (in workout shake): Whey protein and Dextrose with 5g of creatine 35/20/1.5
Meal 5: Turkey, fat free cheese, lettuce, and Dijon mustard on whole wheat sub bread 35/80/4
Meal 6: Tuna with fat free mayo and fat free cheese melted on whole wheat bread, 1 cup broccoli, 3 fish oil capsules 35/25/6
Meal 7: 1 large chicken breast with 3 fish oil caps and ½ tablespoon peanut butter 40/3/13
Meal 8: 1 can tuna, 2 fish oil caps, ½ tablespoon peanut butter 40/3/11
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02-01-2013, 10:46 AM #171
You clearly have an issue with food so why not seek professional help for it? You are hell bent on proving your views when science clearly suggests that you can be a healthy and aesthetic individual as long as you practice moderation.
I don't mean to be harsh, though I can see how my comments may seem that way, but I have had issues with portion control and maintaining a balanced diet and your extremism is an example of how those new to nutrition are set up to easily fail. Your steadfast approach to eating only specific foods is successful for you, but for the majority, is probably not the plan of action they would want to engage in.
I knowingly eat processed and whole foods, but at the end of the day, the majority of those foods come from micro-nutrient dense foods. It's a good balance.
It's a shame many don't take the time to understand the ingredients vs. the name of a specific food item.
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02-01-2013, 11:00 AM #172
This is likely because either consciously or subconsciously, you thought that you were breaking the rules or being "bad" by having that Oreo. Often times when people project taboo labels on any given food, the mentality is to go all-out since they won't allow themselves to be "bad" again for a long while. Completely bass-ackwards way to look at food. I have worked in a nutritional counseling capacity for aeons, and it's when people can free themselves from this warped binary view of food that they can stop their binging.
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02-01-2013, 01:10 PM #173
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And this is the reason why the "IIFYM" had such an impact on the nutrition forums. It was a philosophy that broke away from the "clean eating" mentality that once dominated the nutrition forums. It was new, it has science to back it up, and it was refreshing. However, as others have pointed out, it was meant to be a philosophy, not a diet.
Too many people give up on trying to improve their nutrition habits because they make it too complicated and start with too many things. This is where the phrase "just lift heavy and hit your macros" makes a lot of sense for newbies. It makes bodybuilding more approachable and easier to maintain as a lifestyle change this way.
All and all I think IIFYM was a good thing to happen in the nutrition forums. I think that when applied as a philosophy (and not a diet) to someone who also sees the importance of eating foods rich in fiber and micronutrients, most people can find a balance somewhere in the middle.
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02-01-2013, 02:07 PM #174
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02-01-2013, 02:45 PM #175
If you had watched the video, you would have noted that pretty much his entire conclusion of this video was "if you're getting 40+g of fiber a day from foods, you won't have much calories left over to eat some asinine amount of "junk food " "
Hence why at the start he is criticising the whole idea of just hitting fat/protein needs & then eating whatever the f*ck you want to, alongside criticising eating 100% clean.Last edited by motiva8; 02-01-2013 at 02:50 PM.
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02-01-2013, 04:13 PM #176
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02-01-2013, 05:16 PM #177
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02-01-2013, 05:31 PM #178
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02-01-2013, 05:37 PM #179
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02-01-2013, 06:04 PM #180
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