why am I loosing muscle over fat ? please help

[lexie1812]

can someone please help me figure out what im doing wrong.

I joined a gym on march 23rd, I had a Tanita scale assessment done.

I am 26 , im 5ft 9 tall

My stats for my 1st tanita were
weight 13 st 5lb
fat percent 40.8%
fat mass 5st 6.2lbs
Fat free mass 7st 12.8lbs
muscle mass 7st 7.2lbs
total body water 5st 10lbs
water % 42.8%
bone mass 5.6lbs

BMR 6611 kj / 1580kcal

metabolic age 41
visceral fat 6

my next reading was done 5 weeks later after 10 gym sessions on April 20th

My stats for my 2st tanita were
weight 13 st 2.4lbs
fat percent 40%
fat mass 5st 3.8lbs
Fat free mass 7st 12.6lbs
muscle mass 7st 7lbs
total body water 5st 9.8lbs
water % 43.3%
bone mass 5.6lbs

BMR 6581 kj / 1573kcal

metabolic age 41
visceral fat 5

my 3rd was taken today after nearly 6 weeks and 21 sessions at the gym.

My stats for my 3rd tanita were
weight 13 st lb
fat percent 40.2%
fat mass 5st 3.2lbs
Fat free mass 7st 10.8lbs
muscle mass 7st 5.2lbs
total body water 5st 8.4lbs
water % 43.1%
bone mass 5.6lbs

BMR 6485 kj / 1550kcal

metabolic age 41
visceral fat 5

----------------------

Between my first and 2nd reading i was doing 1 day of cardio and 1 day of arms and legs mixed together
between my 2nd and 3rd i am doing cardio, legs, cardio, arms

Cardio is row 1600m level 7
20mins of HIIT on a bike level 4 and 11
15 mins on the cross trainer on random level 5

then 30 second intervals of 4 circuits of crunches, raised leg crunches, bicycle crunches and Russian twists.

Legs is:
5 mins on a bike to warm up

Deadlifts
then the leg press machine,
squats with a ball against a wall
lunches
back extensions manually not machine

Arms is
Row 1600m level 10
Weight rowing machine.
Lat pull down machine
Chest press machine
Press ups
bicep curls

I am feeling slimmer the numbers on my scales where i weigh myself regularly are going down, my clothes are fitting better I'm feeling stronger and I'm starting to get definition for example when i flex my bicep and same in my calf muscle , everything is just looking tighter.

So im booked in to be weighed on wednesday but someone had the scales out so i jumped in today as i've bin reli eager in the hope my fat would be going down and my muscle going up but I've lost 1.8lbs of muscle and 0.6lbs of fat this month

Frankly I'm gutted and don't understand what I'm doing wrong i've bin working my arse off at the gym and was really hoping to see a gain in muscle since all the factors like strength and definition etc heading in the right direction.

So what am I doing wrong ?

Im a veggie and I don't eat dairy, I don't take any type of protein shakes etc or anything like that.

I have a green smoothie every day packed out with nuts and seeds and hemp oil which I drink when I get home after the gym as I work out first thing and cant stand working out after eating.
I am really careful not to eat too much bread, pasta etc in fact i have 1 pasta meal max PW and 2 slices of toast maybe 3x a week so im reli not eating 2 many bad carbs.
The rest of my meals are made up of fruit veggies beans seeds nuts etc etc I think I eat pretty well, I even sore a nutritionist before I joined the gym to check on my diet.

So what can I change to make sure I'm burning more muscle than fat ??
Thank you xxx

[Partyrocking]

Is a Tanita one of those handheld bf% devices? If so, it's readings are meaningless.

[anandagirl]

Is a Tanita one of those handheld bf% devices? If so, it's readings are meaningless.

This. Are you taking body measurements? Those might help give you a better idea of what's going on, but even then, we don't always measure in the same place.

[lexie1812]

its a type of scale with metal plates you stand on it dose the reading through your bare feet. and it prints you out a reciept
I took some measurements the other day, the last ones i took were last June though as I Didnt think to take any when I joined the gym.

I would have assumed bc my weights at the gym keep increasing in size and i feel stronger etc that i would be gaining muscle , I've never had any hardness/ definition in my arms ever but I do now which has made me very happy as I assumed that meant i was actually getting stronger and gaining muscle xx

[Partyrocking]

Those scales are pretty worthless for measuring bf%. They can be off by so many percentage points that you can't even use them to see how you're trending.

[kimm4]

Fat loss and building muscle are 2 different goals. You're not going to build muscle if you're eating in a calorie deficit for fat loss. The focus would be fat loss while preserving the muscle you carry now.

You calorie intake is too low. At your stats you should be eating more for steady fat loss...especially if you want to hold onto muscle.

[lexie1812]

Fat loss and building muscle are 2 different goals. You're not going to build muscle if you're eating in a calorie deficit for fat loss. The focus would be fat loss while preserving the muscle you carry now.

You calorie intake is too low. At your stats you should be eating more for steady fat loss...especially if you want to hold onto muscle.

Im not aiming to eat less just eat healthily, if im hungry I eat kinda thing, what would your advice be please x

[lexie1812]

just as an example
Today was arm day at the gym so i got up worked out
came home had my green smoothie which is water, kale, carrot, cabbage, ginger, kiwis topped up with seeds nuts and hemp oil

For lunch i had a sprouted mung bean burger in a bun with a large salad

then around half 4 i had soem more salad and a rice cakes

and Im going to have some leftover mung bean burgers without buns for my dinner

[kimm4]

Im not aiming to eat less just eat healthily, if im hungry I eat kinda thing, what would your advice be please x

You calorie intake shows you're eating in a deficit and it's too low. If you want to drop some fat and hold onto muscle get in the right deficit, get a food scale and track your intake properly.

For healthy fatloss your starting intake should be right around 1950-2000 calories a day.

[anandagirl]

You calorie intake shows you're eating in a deficit and it's too low. If you want to drop some fat and hold onto muscle get in the right deficit, get a food scale and track your intake properly.

For healthy fatloss your starting intake should be right around 1950-2000 calories a day.

Oh crap.... I might be going too low

[Banbimi]

Oh crap.... I might be going too low

It's interesting isn't it. I never knew about bulking and cutting etc till I came to this website. I guess I have been lifting stuff at the gym for 2 months now and was disappointed that I was hovering around the same weight the whole time. Yet my upper body has lost some inches, arms already look better and everyone tells me I've lost weight. I'm thinking that the best loss for me is a slow loss to save as much muscle as possible. I'm Apple shaped so worried if I cut too aggressively I'll end up with chicken legs.

[anandagirl]

It's interesting isn't it. I never knew about bulking and cutting etc till I came to this website. I guess I have been lifting stuff at the gym for 2 months now and was disappointed that I was hovering around the same weight the whole time. Yet my upper body has lost some inches, arms already look better and everyone tells me I've lost weight. I'm thinking that the best loss for me is a slow loss to save as much muscle as possible. I'm Apple shaped so worried if I cut too aggressively I'll end up with chicken legs.

I've definitely been trying not to have too large of a deficit but the I want it now mentality is real. Trying not to get crazy, may up calories in a couple weeks.

[lexie1812]

You calorie intake shows you're eating in a deficit and it's too low. If you want to drop some fat and hold onto muscle get in the right deficit, get a food scale and track your intake properly.

For healthy fatloss your starting intake should be right around 1950-2000 calories a day.

How exactly can you tell im in 2 much of a deficit as i dont even have a clue how many calories i am consuming per day.
We cook everything from scratch so i wouldn't have a clue even where to start to work out how many i am eating per day

[lexie1812]

can someone also please explain what cutting and bulking means ?

[Partyrocking]

How exactly can you tell im in 2 much of a deficit as i dont even have a clue how many calories i am consuming per day.
We cook everything from scratch so i wouldn't have a clue even where to start to work out how many i am eating per day

Are you trying to sound stupid?

You complain that you're losing muscle, (which may or may not be true since you're using a body fat scale and those are garbage) and you were told correctly that if you're losing muscle, then it's because you're eating too little food.

Now, you claim no one could possibly know if you are eating too little because you don't even know what you're eating.

We can tell by the results (well the assumed results since your methodology is nonsense to begin with).

If you only ate one rice cake a day, wouldn't it be fair to say that you're eating too little even if I don't know how many calories are in that rice cake?

inb4 OP starts eating 2000 calorie rice cakes.

[kimm4]

How exactly can you tell im in 2 much of a deficit as i dont even have a clue how many calories i am consuming per day.
We cook everything from scratch so i wouldn't have a clue even where to start to work out how many i am eating per day

In your very first post you listed calorie counts of 1550-1580. Maybe I'm confused in what I read but what would be the reason for posting those numbers?

[BrotherWolf]

its a type of scale with metal plates you stand on it dose the reading through your bare feet. and it prints you out a reciept
I took some measurements the other day, the last ones i took were last June though as I Didnt think to take any when I joined the gym.

I would have assumed bc my weights at the gym keep increasing in size and i feel stronger etc that i would be gaining muscle , I've never had any hardness/ definition in my arms ever but I do now which has made me very happy as I assumed that meant i was actually getting stronger and gaining muscle xx

worthless readings , focus on food and training
you are losing weight most likely because you aren't eating enough....

lets see your macro breakdown and diet, that's more useful than routine and useless tanita readings

if you don't know what they are or how to figure that out a trip to the nutrition forum will help you , the food you listed doesn't really look like could be anywhere near enough to build or maintain the little muscle you have now ..


bulking means bulking .. gaining weight
cutting means cutting weight you bulk to maximize muscle gains or to meet a weight class requirement and cut to reach a weight goal either for a show or for personal reasons

[Banbimi]

can someone also please explain what cutting and bulking means ?

when you are cutting - you are losing weight and you will lose both fat and muscle. when you bulk you eat more than you need which builds muscles bigger. You can't diet and increase muscles at the same time. Some-one else might explain that better than me but that's my interpretation. Before I came to this website i had no idea that dieting caused muscle loss as well as fat loss.

[BrotherWolf]

when you are cutting - you are losing weight and you will lose both fat and muscle.

not necessarily

You can't diet and increase muscles at the same time

actually you can under certain circumstances, newbies , people coming back after a long hiatus , overweight people starting to lift do experience it .. it's what most people call newbie gains
weight is relatively stable , pant size goes down , strength goes up etc.. thing is unfortunately doesn't last long
on top of that if you don't follow a very specific program that forces you to progress and take advantage of the newbie ability to recover faster between workouts
the gains and progress will be minimal and slow, also newbies don't have yet an idea on how hard they need (and can) train ,

newbs can take a lot of abuse but they aren't aware they can
and there is diet ..99.99% of the times the newb will not eat right, usually with the goal of losing weight and gain muscle , undereating never helps

[lexie1812]

Are you trying to sound stupid?

You complain that you're losing muscle, (which may or may not be true since you're using a body fat scale and those are garbage) and you were told correctly that if you're losing muscle, then it's because you're eating too little food.

Now, you claim no one could possibly know if you are eating too little because you don't even know what you're eating.

We can tell by the results (well the assumed results since your methodology is nonsense to begin with).

If you only ate one rice cake a day, wouldn't it be fair to say that you're eating too little even if I don't know how many calories are in that rice cake?

inb4 OP starts eating 2000 calorie rice cakes.

That whole response is very mean and unhelpful
I am a beginner I am hear to learn not to be called stupid !
I clearly know what I am eating I said I don't know how many calories it would be because we cook from scratch and I don't know how to work that out because I am new to all of this
and I dotn have a methodology because I am knew I am learning I am here for help support and information not to be called names and made to feel like crap just because I am a beginner !!
If you dont have anything nice to say then don't respond to beginners questions we are just trying to learn !

In your very first post you listed calorie counts of 1550-1580. Maybe I'm confused in what I read but what would be the reason for posting those numbers?

Kim those are stats off the Tanita I was told the calorie number means how much my body is burning as standard without exercise

[lexie1812]

worthless readings , focus on food and training
you are losing weight most likely because you aren't eating enough....

lets see your macro breakdown and diet, that's more useful than routine and useless tanita readings

if you don't know what they are or how to figure that out a trip to the nutrition forum will help you , the food you listed doesn't really look like could be anywhere near enough to build or maintain the little muscle you have now ..


bulking means bulking .. gaining weight
cutting means cutting weight you bulk to maximize muscle gains or to meet a weight class requirement and cut to reach a weight goal either for a show or for personal reasons

when you are cutting - you are losing weight and you will lose both fat and muscle. when you bulk you eat more than you need which builds muscles bigger. You can't diet and increase muscles at the same time. Some-one else might explain that better than me but that's my interpretation. Before I came to this website i had no idea that dieting caused muscle loss as well as fat loss.

not necessarily



actually you can under certain circumstances, newbies , people coming back after a long hiatus , overweight people starting to lift do experience it .. it's what most people call newbie gains
weight is relatively stable , pant size goes down , strength goes up etc.. thing is unfortunately doesn't last long
on top of that if you don't follow a very specific program that forces you to progress and take advantage of the newbie ability to recover faster between workouts
the gains and progress will be minimal and slow, also newbies don't have yet an idea on how hard they need (and can) train ,

newbs can take a lot of abuse but they aren't aware they can
and there is diet ..99.99% of the times the newb will not eat right, usually with the goal of losing weight and gain muscle , undereating never helps

Thank you for your responses .

One of the challenges is any meals etc I cook I am having to cook for my whole family so I cant afford to cook and shop just for me so I try and make sure everything we eat as a family is healthy

Yesterday I ate the following please tell me if this seems to little or too much etc, yesterday wasn't a gym day

I had a green smoothie for breakfast, spinach, cabbage, carrots, kiwis, ginger, water, nuts seeds hemp oil

had an apple mid morning

For lunch I made a fat omelet with mushrooms, sweetcorn, tomatoes, olives, chives and vegan cheese With this I ahd a leftover sprouted mung bean burger, some beetroot and half an avocado

For dinner I had 2 slices of seeded toast with 4 boiled eggs sliced on top

I drink pretty much only water and a lot through the day

And I periodically ate some bourbon biscuits through the day as well which normally wouldn't be in the house as I typically don't buy junk food.

Thank you for your guidance x

[BrotherWolf]

Thank you for your responses .

One of the challenges is any meals etc I cook I am having to cook for my whole family so I cant afford to cook and shop just for me so I try and make sure everything we eat as a family is healthy

Yesterday I ate the following please tell me if this seems to little or too much etc, yesterday wasn't a gym day

I had a green smoothie for breakfast, spinach, cabbage, carrots, kiwis, ginger, water, nuts seeds hemp oil

had an apple mid morning

For lunch I made a fat omelet with mushrooms, sweetcorn, tomatoes, olives, chives and vegan cheese With this I ahd a leftover sprouted mung bean burger, some beetroot and half an avocado

For dinner I had 2 slices of seeded toast with 4 boiled eggs sliced on top

I drink pretty much only water and a lot through the day

And I periodically ate some bourbon biscuits through the day as well which normally wouldn't be in the house as I typically don't buy junk food.

Thank you for your guidance x

what you eat is mostly irrelevant you need to learn to count your macros/calories , eating healthy is also subjective but what i see there is not nearly enough food to support an active individual therefore there is nothing healthy about it

[megdaig]

Thank you for your responses .

One of the challenges is any meals etc I cook I am having to cook for my whole family so I cant afford to cook and shop just for me so I try and make sure everything we eat as a family is healthy

Yesterday I ate the following please tell me if this seems to little or too much etc, yesterday wasn't a gym day

I had a green smoothie for breakfast, spinach, cabbage, carrots, kiwis, ginger, water, nuts seeds hemp oil

had an apple mid morning

For lunch I made a fat omelet with mushrooms, sweetcorn, tomatoes, olives, chives and vegan cheese With this I ahd a leftover sprouted mung bean burger, some beetroot and half an avocado

For dinner I had 2 slices of seeded toast with 4 boiled eggs sliced on top

I drink pretty much only water and a lot through the day

And I periodically ate some bourbon biscuits through the day as well which normally wouldn't be in the house as I typically don't buy junk food.

Thank you for your guidance x

All those bolded are very calorie dense foods and can easily put you over maintenance calories if you aren't tracking appropriately.

What has your overall weight done? Have you lost weight or gained weight? What is your goal?

You can easily track calories and macros for what meals you are making for your family. A good start is to weigh and add up all the ingredients in a meal and divide it by the number of total servings it made and account for how many of those servings you consumed.

[Enniefitness]

From what I can see your protein intake is too low. That's why you loose muscles.

I personally have been a vegan and vegetarian for periods in my life, and even while counting macros and adding vegan proteins I felt weaker and weaker and lost a muscles. Unfortunately I come to the conclusion that a vegan diet is not the best for building/maintaining muscle mass. Many of those vegan athletes you see are not natural.

So I would recommend you to choose a flexitarian/semivegetarian diet, include eggs, fish and seafood. Supplement with whey, casein and eggprotein.

Make sure your macros are distributed P45%C40%F15% on training day and P55%C20%F25% on rest days.

Go for a simple program with compound movements (deadlift, squat,benchpress + accessory work) 3x a week.

That's it. You can read more on Leangains and Enniefitness.

[lexie1812]

All those bolded are very calorie dense foods and can easily put you over maintenance calories if you aren't tracking appropriately.

What has your overall weight done? Have you lost weight or gained weight? What is your goal?

You can easily track calories and macros for what meals you are making for your family. A good start is to weigh and add up all the ingredients in a meal and divide it by the number of total servings it made and account for how many of those servings you consumed.

Overall my weight is going down, since the start of the year i have lost 10lbs total.
4.3lbs in 13 weeks prior to joining the gym and 5.7lbs in the 9 weeks since joining the gym.

When you say weigh and add up all the ingredients do you mean weight as in grams etc on a normal cooking scale or calculate the calories of each item that goes in individually ?

I know i can roughly work out things that come in cartons such as cartons of beans or chopped tomatoes etc but how would i workout the calories of say a vegetable stir fry where its all from vegetables

I really wish i understood how to work out calories without eating pre made food with a calorie number on the packet

Thank you for your help x

[lexie1812]

From what I can see your protein intake is too low. That's why you loose muscles.

I personally have been a vegan and vegetarian for periods in my life, and even while counting macros and adding vegan proteins I felt weaker and weaker and lost a muscles. Unfortunately I come to the conclusion that a vegan diet is not the best for building/maintaining muscle mass. Many of those vegan athletes you see are not natural.

Animal products except eggs are not an option for me thank you
So I would recommend you to choose a flexitarian/semivegetarian diet, include eggs, fish and seafood. Supplement with whey, casein and eggprotein.

Make sure your macros are distributed P45%C40%F15% on training day and P55%C20%F25% on rest days.

Go for a simple program with compound movements (deadlift, squat,benchpress + accessory work) 3x a week.

That's it. You can read more on Leangains and Enniefitness.

Thank you for your reply but animal products except eggs are not an option for me

[lexie1812]

I was weighed yesterday b4 my workout vs after it like last time on sunday and the number this time came up better with my fat mass - 1lb and my muscle mass +1lb vs the reading on sunday

so from my last proper weigh in in April to now ive lost 1.6lbs of fat and 0.8lbs lbs of muscle so much better than what it seemed and my instructor is changing me to 4 days of weights with only a little cardio :-) so see how things go over the next period also going to buy some protein powder and focus on increasing protein , bin chatting to a few people in the nutrition board and someone recommended me a gre8 looking powder

[anandagirl]

The original point was that these scales are inaccurate and are meaningless. I wouldn't put too much stock into the results. I would go more by weight lost and how your clothes are fitting.

[lexie1812]

The original point was that these scales are inaccurate and are meaningless. I wouldn't put too much stock into the results. I would go more by weight lost and how your clothes are fitting.

yeah im not gonna pay 2 much attention to them any more, was just nice to see that they could shift the opposite way more in my favor lol

[rockangel]

yeah im not gonna pay 2 much attention to them any more, was just nice to see that they could shift the opposite way more in my favor lol

This is the weirdest post ever. The point is that the measurement is inaccurate, yet you think its "positive" because the results/numbers are more to your "liking".... makes no sense. It did not "shift in your favor", it just showed a different reading 3 days later, and it would show a different reading if you did it 3 minutes later. You are basing EMOTIONS off a measurement that is not only meaningless, but completely without any merit or basis in reality.

Its like the whole thread was pointless because you think that the new numbers are somehow "better" and it makes you FEEL something....


And yes, its rather easy to cook for a whole family and still weigh out your portions, I do it all the time.... yesterday we had spaghetti, I had 3oz of noodles, 4 oz of beef, and 130 g of sauce.... not that difficult to portion out.