A Decent Clean

[Marius_Ursus]

On my last strength building cycle I was able to acheive a 135-lb clean and press for three reps. This was ground breaking for me, more than I'd ever been able to do in the past. What I'm wondering is what a really good clean and press would be. Do you think it's conceivable to hit a 225 pound clean and press for a "non elite" lifter?

What weight cleaned and pressed would make you go, "Whoa! That's impressive!"?

[ironwill2008]

135x3 is pretty impressive, all by itself.

Getting bodyweight overhead is a real benchmark. You can do it, if you really want to. It won't be an easy goal to attain, but then if it was, what would be the fun in it?

[Marius_Ursus]

135x3 is pretty impressive, all by itself.

Getting bodyweight overhead is a real benchmark. You can do it, if you really want to. It won't be an easy goal to attain, but then if it was, what would be the fun in it?

That's what I'll shoot for to start then. Let's see how long it takes...I have to buy a scale or something now. Last time I checked my weight it was averaging 187 pounds, and that was a year ago...but I put on mass over the last three months. Unfortunately not all muscle. I'd not be surprised if I went up to 195. It's hard to get a solid consistent weight out of a scale. My weight has been known to fluctuate up to nearly 10 pounds in a given day.

I was able to do 175, but I weighed 190 at the time. You have bad timing to ask this question. After just watching WSM comp last week where they were hitting 300+ for high reps, lofl, it'd take a good bit to make me say, "Whoa! That's impressive!"

But yeah, guys doing low-mid 200's is impressive to me.

Maybe I'll just shoot for 200. It would be nice if I could get four plates overhead.

I gotta think more about this.

[GnomusMaximus]

I'm close to 190 right now. Would like 200 by throwing season. I won't be doing them for a few months now though.

[Marius_Ursus]

I'm close to 190 right now. Would like 200 by throwing season. I won't be doing them for a few months now though.

How often do you train your C&P when you're in throwing season?

[The_Warhammer]

My weight has been known to fluctuate up to nearly 10 pounds in a given day.

It's all dem pick-a-nick baskets.

[dbx]

Maybe I'll just shoot for 200. It would be nice if I could get four plates overhead.

I gotta think more about this.

What is there to think about? This isn't rocket science. You set a goal... and then lift your ass off to try to achieve it. It's really that simple.

[Marius_Ursus]

What is there to think about? This isn't rocket science. You set a goal... and then lift your ass off to try to achieve it. It's really that simple.

I might be going into analysis paralysis, but I want to set micro goals, too. To do that I want to make sure the final goal is a logical one.

[bodyhard]

On my last strength building cycle I was able to acheive a 135-lb clean and press for three reps. This was ground breaking for me, more than I'd ever been able to do in the past. What I'm wondering is what a really good clean and press would be. Do you think it's conceivable to hit a 225 pound clean and press for a "non elite" lifter?

What weight cleaned and pressed would make you go, "Whoa! That's impressive!"?

I think you can get the 225lbs if you stick to it. I think the lift is more in the execution of the movement so the more you do them the better you get at it and the stronger you become.


Nice lift and congrats on the achievement!!

[Marius_Ursus]

I think you can get the 225lbs if you stick to it. I think the lift is more in the execution of the movement so the more you do them the better you get at it and the stronger you become.


Nice lift and congrats on the achievement!!

Gracias, se?or. I just started a new cycle in my training. It's a combat-oriented training cycle, so I'm going to keep up with maintenance lifting, but it won't be the main focus of the next eight weeks. I figure if I maintain the current strength and maybe add a rep or two, by the time I start my next strength cycle in March, I'll be primed to hit a 150 single at the end of that eight weeks.

[Kiknskreem]

What weight cleaned and pressed would make you go, "Whoa! That's impressive!"?

I'm generally far more impressed by anyone who is doing the movement correctly rather than someone moving a lot of weight.

For a non O-lifter type who is proficient in the lift I'd say a 1.5xbw clean would be pretty good.

You'll be able to clean more than you can press, so I wouldn't worry about training them together. If you want to go ground to overhead I'd use push presses or jerks.

[Marius_Ursus]

I'm generally far more impressed by anyone who is doing the movement correctly rather than someone moving a lot of weight.

For a non O-lifter type who is proficient in the lift I'd say a 1.5xbw clean would be pretty good.

You'll be able to clean more than you can press, so I wouldn't worry about training them together. If you want to go ground to overhead I'd use push presses or jerks.

I'm a real stickler for form. If I wanted to cheat the form, I'd probably be up to 145 at least.

I don't have the room for jerks, but I do for push presses. There are literally six inches of clearance behind me and almost none in front of me in the basement. It's one of those cages like you see in apartments...mostly because I live in an apartment.

So far my clean and press have progressed at a relatively even rate. I'll see what happens in the future, though. Perhaps my clean will start to develop a lot faster, and if that happens, I'll bear in mind your advice on the press.

[Kiknskreem]

Push jerks?

[Marius_Ursus]

Push jerks?

Only if they deserve it.

[Whiskeyjack]

Marius - it's hard to tell because it has a lot to do with your weight, your form, whether you're doing full or power cleans, what degree of jerk or PP is in your press, and how often you're doing it. When I dabbled with olympic lifting I was able to clean 225lbs for singles fairly often and easily, but could never press anywhere near this (top press was probably about 180), although I could jerk it for a single.

Around the time I joined this forum (Aug 07) I was training in my uni gym. There were a lot of young fellows doing clean and press for sports training and 225lbs didn't seem all that much to them. I would suggest that you aim for that as a goal, but WATCH YOUR FORM. I don't know how many times doing pulls or cleans I rammed the bar into my balls or bounced it off my mid thigh (to prevent that happening).

[GnomusMaximus]

How often do you train your C&P when you're in throwing season?

I do those a lot more "in season" that's a classic throwers move. I'm trying to plan my year a lot better this season. I'm going to put up a new journal today. Let you guys see what you think.

[Marius_Ursus]

Marius - it's hard to tell because it has a lot to do with your weight, your form, whether you're doing full or power cleans, what degree of jerk or PP is in your press, and how often you're doing it. When I dabbled with olympic lifting I was able to clean 225lbs for singles fairly often and easily, but could never press anywhere near this (top press was probably about 180), although I could jerk it for a single.

Around the time I joined this forum (Aug 07) I was training in my uni gym. There were a lot of young fellows doing clean and press for sports training and 225lbs didn't seem all that much to them. I would suggest that you aim for that as a goal, but WATCH YOUR FORM. I don't know how many times doing pulls or cleans I rammed the bar into my balls or bounced it off my mid thigh (to prevent that happening).

I clean from a pair of jack stands in their lowest position, so I consider it a full clean. When I'm talking C&P, there's no assisting push. When I start with the assist, I don't count it as a clean and press.

I have a good hip thrust from all those years of kettlebell training, so the form for the clean at least is all set. I do catch myself sometimes not pushing head forward enough on the press portion, though, and I know that's an important component to protect the shoulders.

[Marius_Ursus]

I do those a lot more "in season" that's a classic throwers move. I'm trying to plan my year a lot better this season. I'm going to put up a new journal today. Let you guys see what you think.

Frigging awesome, man. I really want to see what your seasonal training looks like.

[Whiskeyjack]

I clean from a pair of jack stands in their lowest position, so I consider it a full clean. When I'm talking C&P, there's no assisting push. When I start with the assist, I don't count it as a clean and press.

I have a good hip thrust from all those years of kettlebell training, so the form for the clean at least is all set. I do catch myself sometimes not pushing head forward enough on the press portion, though, and I know that's an important component to protect the shoulders.

Not just the shoulders but the back. A lot of people overlook the big swaybacks in so-called "military presses" but a big drive back (esp. if accompanied by a twist) can mash your spinal parts quicker than anything. You're better off, IMHO, doing push presses; there's actually more control and less likelihood of swaybacks. Also, you can try to slowly lower the weight to the clavicles (burn baby burn). The other option that I've used, and am using again now that I'm garage training without anything but barbells, is to do strict presses but keep the legs/feet in the split position throughout. This gives your back a lot of support; also I switch legs each set.

Thanks for the green, BTW. Nice talking to you again.

[Dave76]

I clean from a pair of jack stands in their lowest position, so I consider it a full clean...

Do you catch the bar in the front squat position (full clean) or in a more upright position (power clean)?

[Whiskeyjack]

Do you catch the bar in the front squat position (full clean) or in a more upright position (power clean)?

That's what I was asking, too, BTW. If you do a full clean, you're actually doing a much more difficult move but one of great value.

[Marius_Ursus]

Not just the shoulders but the back. A lot of people overlook the big swaybacks in so-called "military presses" but a big drive back (esp. if accompanied by a twist) can mash your spinal parts quicker than anything. You're better off, IMHO, doing push presses; there's actually more control and less likelihood of swaybacks. Also, you can try to slowly lower the weight to the clavicles (burn baby burn). The other option that I've used, and am using again now that I'm garage training without anything but barbells, is to do strict presses but keep the legs/feet in the split position throughout. This gives your back a lot of support; also I switch legs each set.

Thanks for the green, BTW. Nice talking to you again.

The first time I attempted the 135 pounder, I felt that in the lumbar spine and knew immediately I needed more hip support. I actually keep my feet apart throughout everything for that stability you mention.

Now, to clarify, when you talk about keeping your legs split throughout, do mean as in a Bulgarian split squat position?

Do you catch the bar in the front squat position (full clean) or in a more upright position (power clean)?

It depends on if it's a clean and press or a front squat with push press I'm going for. I alternate the exercises on different days...at least I did until I finished that last strength training cycle.

[Whiskeyjack]

The first time I attempted the 135 pounder, I felt that in the lumbar spine and knew immediately I needed more hip support. I actually keep my feet apart throughout everything for that stability you mention.

Now, to clarify, when you talk about keeping your legs split throughout, do mean as in a Bulgarian split squat position?



It depends on if it's a clean and press or a front squat with push press I'm going for. I alternate the exercises on different days...at least I did until I finished that last strength training cycle.

When I say split, I mean foot forward and foot behind, knees flexed. Like the conclusion of an olympic style jerk, without having recovered. I don't think you can get sufficient support with feet next to each other, even if separated, because they're on the same plane and you'll end up bending backwards.

There's nothing to stop you from doing a "full" clean - ie. minimum height pull and squatting deep to "catch" the bar, standing, then doing either presses, push presses, or jerks. That's a very challenging movement, admittedly, as far as getting your wind goes, but very worthwhile. I would advocate doing the 3 pulls first, say, then the presses/jerks.

[Marius_Ursus]

When I say split, I mean foot forward and foot behind, knees flexed. Like the conclusion of an olympic style jerk, without having recovered. I don't think you can get sufficient support with feet next to each other, even if separated, because they're on the same plane and you'll end up bending backwards.

There's nothing to stop you from doing a "full" clean - ie. minimum height pull and squatting deep to "catch" the bar, standing, then doing either presses, push presses, or jerks. That's a very challenging movement, admittedly, as far as getting your wind goes, but very worthwhile. I would advocate doing the 3 pulls first, say, then the presses/jerks.

Thanks for the clarification on foot position.

This is all useful information, and I appreciate it.

[woodlake]

Good job just stick with it and I'm sure you can get to 225. You got to 135 didn't you?

[Dave76]

Marius, to answer your original question...

I train at a strength and conditioning gym and see lots of Oly lifting. I am usually in the gym with the "after work" crowd which consists of mostly 40-50 yr old white collar workers. Everyone is serious about their training but no one has any aspirations of competing anywhere. We're just a bunch of ordinary guys trying to improve.

It's not unusual to see power cleans in the 80-100 kg range (175-220 lbs) and it's not unusual to see clean & jerks in the same range. A clean and strict press in that range would be an unusual sight. As for me, I'm at 70 kg for the C&J. As an unathletic klutz, I'm one of the weakest guys in the group.

[Marius_Ursus]

Marius, to answer your original question...

I train at a strength and conditioning gym and see lots of Oly lifting. I am usually in the gym with the "after work" crowd which consists of mostly 40-50 yr old white collar workers. Everyone is serious about their training but no one has any aspirations of competing anywhere. We're just a bunch of ordinary guys trying to improve.

It's not unusual to see power cleans in the 80-100 kg range (175-220 lbs) and it's not unusual to see clean & jerks in the same range. A clean and strict press in that range would be an unusual sight. As for me, I'm at 70 kg for the C&J. As an unathletic klutz, I'm one of the weakest guys in the group.

Thanks a bunch for your feedback. I'm just trying to set a reasonable goal, and now that I know all things in this are not equal, I can set a series of reasonable goals.

I can relate to what you're feeling and seeing at the gym. My goal is to be the greatest fighter who ever lived. Unfortunately, I only decided on that goal seven months ago. It took about 10 years of training like a slag before I even developed the ability to become dedicated enough to drive myself the way I am now.

Thanks again.

[Rhinoclan]

Just a question, but never having done olympic lifts, other than squats, what muscles are being worked in a clean? Is it the entire upper back?

[Marius_Ursus]

Just a question, but never having done olympic lifts, other than squats, what muscles are being worked in a clean? Is it the entire upper back?

Upper back, rear delts, hips, glutes, hams, calves...pretty much the entire posterior chain is being worked.

[inhiding34]

I was turned on to the move about a year ago me and my partner use to do 135 3sets 10 reps. At that volume it almost becomes a cardio exercise. The first few sessions after 10 reps I would literally be laying on the floor trying to catch my breathe. The first time I did 10 reps I thought I was going to puke I was outside the front door of the gym in 15 degree weather bent over holding my knees! But theres a few guys in my gym who do 225 no problem, so it can be done. And they are not elite lifters. Set your mind to it, dont question yourself and work towards it. It will happen. But you have to see yourself doing it in your minds eye!