New Glutamine study (just to help reaffirm my case)

[str8flexed]

How many studies like this have to come out before you people stop wasting your money?

The purpose was to determine if glutamine supplementation would prevent a loss of lean mass in athletes during a 12-day weight reduction program. It was hypothesized that supplementation would spare lean body mass. Subjects (n=18) exercised and dieted to create a 4186kJ·day-1 energy deficit and a 8372 kJ·day-1 energy deficit on days 1-5, days 6-12, respectively. The glutamine (GLN) group (n=9) ingested 0.35 g·kg-1 body mass of glutamine while a placebo was administered to the remaining subjects. Body mass (BM), lean body mass (LBM) and fat mass (FM), were measured at days 0, 6, and 12. GLN and placebo groups both lost significant amounts of BM, LBM and FM. There were no significant differences between groups. The findings indicate little benefit for retention of lean mass with supplementation of glutamine during a short-term weight reduction program.

Glutamine supplementation did not benefit athletes during short-term
weight reduction
Kevin, J. Finn, Robin Lund and Mona Rosene-Treadwell
http://www20.uludag.edu.tr/%7Ehakan/...4/7/v2n4-7.htm

[BoxerUK]

A 12 day study is far too short to draw any conclusions but thanks for letting us know about it.

[massive member]

thanks, but still using along with the others.

[dildo69]

Any studies about its effects on gut health and the immune system?

[u5711]

Regardless of what I think about glutamine, a 12 day study like this can not be used to draw any conclusions regarding glutamine.


What would people say if someone conducted a 12 day study of administering testosterone cypionate?

[Anssi_Manninen]

In my opinion, glutamine is the most overrated supplement known to mankind, especially the free form glutamine. It hardly increases plasma glutamine levels even in large doses.

[Anssi_Manninen]

Originally posted by dildo69
Any studies about its effects on gut health and the immune system?

It now appears that glutamine has no positive effects on immune system in healthy adults.

Also, glutamine is certainly not a anabolic:

Eur J Appl Physiol. 2001 Dec;86(2):142-9. Related Articles, Links

Effect of glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults.

Candow DG, Chilibeck PD, Burke DG, Davison KS, Smith-Palmer T.

College of Kinesiology, University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada.

The purpose of this study was to assess the effect of oral glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults. A group of 31 subjects, aged 18-24 years, were randomly allocated to groups (double blind) to receive either glutamine (0.9 g x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 17) or a placebo (0.9 g maltodextrin x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 14 during 6 weeks of total body resistance training. Exercises were performed for four to five sets of 6-12 repetitions at intensities ranging from 60% to 90% 1 repetition maximum (1 RM). Before and after training, measurements were taken of 1 RM squat and bench press strength, peak knee extension torque (using an isokinetic dynamometer), lean tissue mass (dual energy X-ray absorptiometry) and muscle protein degradation (urinary 3-methylhistidine by high performance liquid chromatography). Repeated measures ANOVA showed that strength, torque, lean tissue mass and 3-methylhistidine increased with training (P < 0.05), with no significant difference between groups. Both groups increased their 1 RM squat by approximately 30% and 1 RM bench press by approximately 14%. The glutamine group showed increases of 6% for knee extension torque, 2% for lean tissue mass and 41% for urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine. The placebo group increased knee extension torque by 5%, lean tissue mass by 1.7% and 3-methylhistidine by 56%. We conclude that glutamine supplementation during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation in young healthy adults.

[pogue]

Originally posted by dildo69
Any studies about its effects on gut health and the immune system?

This is about the only positive effects oral glutamine supplementation has.

[sixthsense]

This one study is not enough to quell the enthusiasm that I and tens of thousands of others have for glutamine and the myriad of benefits that we see and feel from it each day.

[pogue]

Copied from HST's forum

Glutamine

Here are the reasons to take glutamine.

1) Immune support. Supplemental use of glutamine, either in oral, enteral, or parenteral form, increases intestinal villous height, stimulates gut mucosal cellular proliferation, and maintains mucosal integrity. It also prevents intestinal hyperpermeability and bacterial translocation, which may be involved in sepsis and the development of multiple organ failure. One study reported that athletes reported fewer incedences of upper respiratory tract infections while supplementing with glutamine (2 grams) after they ran.

2) Gastrointestinal support. 70-80% of orally administered glutamine is absorbed into the cells of your GI tract. It remains there and is metabolised by those cells without ever reaching the blood stream (image). In sicknesses such as sepsis it has been shown to help improve survival because of improved GI tract function.

<img src="http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/fulltext/4-4-glut-fig2.jpg">

Thats pretty much it.

There is no real benefit for someone looking to build bigger muscles. That 10% of dietary glutamine that gets past the GI tract is taken up by the liver where it is converted into sugar (gluconeogenesis) and stored as glycogen in the liver.

Don't let in-vitro research fool you into thinking oral glutamine will have an effect on a healthy individuals muscle mass. Yes, glutamine does regulate protein synthesis to a certain extent under some situations. However, you can't make it happen by taking it orally. Don't let ads with some pro-bodybuilder holding a bottle of glutamine fool you. Even if that pro-bodybuilder is taking it...it isn't doing anything for him either.

Here are a couple good "in-vivo" research studies to start with:

1. Candow DG, Chilibeck PD, Burke DG, Davison KS, Smith-Palmer T. Effect of glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults. Eur J Appl Physiol. 2001 Dec;86(2):142-9.

2. Antonio J, Sanders MS, Kalman D, Woodgate D, Street C. The effects of high-dose glutamine ingestion on weightlifting performance. J Strength Cond Res. 2002 Feb;16(1):157-60.

Keep in mind that if you are eating protein powders, especially any thing with whey in it, you are getting plenty of glutamine. The question of glutamines worth in the newsletter centered on its effect on building mass and/or strength, not anything to do with the gastrointestinal track.

In short, only 47-50% of orally administered glutamine can be expected to make it past the liver and other organs, into the blood stream. And only about 10% can be expected to reach extracellular spaces.[Bowtell JL, Gelly K, Jackman ML, Patel A, Simeoni M, Rennie MJ. Effect of oral glutamine on whole body carbohydrate storage during recovery from exhaustive exercise. Journal of Applied Physiology. 1999 Jun;86(6):1770-7] Now, this is the main argument against glutamine. 90% of the glutamine you take orally never even makes it to your muscles. This isn't to say it is wasted. Your GI tract loves glutamine from reasons explained earlier. If you are having intestinal problems nothing is better. If you are trying to increase protein synthesis by loading glutamine, it isn't going to work.

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/...t=ST;f=13;t=25

[SilverMajesty]

should be a vitamin instead of a bb supp, but i still like it. i think i'd still be in bed right now if i wasnt adding a teaspoon of glutamine to my cups of water when i woke up and before i slept these past two days.

[massive member]

"If you are having intestinal problems nothing is better."

this strikes a chord with me. is there more info regarding this aspect somewhere?

[str8flexed]

Originally posted by sixthsense
This one study is not enough to quell the enthusiasm that I and tens of thousands of others have for glutamine and the myriad of benefits that we see and feel from it each day.

well there are literally hundreds of studies showing glutamine does jack **** in healthy people. i'd like to see the thousands of studies you are referring to.

And 12 days is a pretty fair time frame. But I'm sure you all work in graduate laboratories right

[str8flexed]

Originally posted by SilverMajesty
should be a vitamin instead of a bb supp, but i still like it. i think i'd still be in bed right now if i wasnt adding a teaspoon of glutamine to my cups of water when i woke up and before i slept these past two days.

wow... do you even know what the definition of a vitamin is?????

[u5711]

Originally posted by str8flexed
well there are literally hundreds of studies showing glutamine does jack **** in healthy people. i'd like to see the thousands of studies you are referring to.

And 12 days is a pretty fair time frame. But I'm sure you all work in graduate laboratories right

You wouldnt have to work in a "graduate library" to comprehend the fact that 12 days is not sufficient time to discern a significant difference between the two groups, which is what they were looking for. I mean honestly, how much muscle does any normal person actaully lose in 12 days? I'll tell you one thing, it's not significant.


And if you think university studies are beyond the scope of err, you are being foolishly naive.

[str8flexed]

Originally posted by u5711
You wouldnt have to work in a "graduate library" to comprehend the fact that 12 days is not sufficient time to discern a significant difference between the two groups, which is what they were looking for. I mean honestly, how much muscle does any normal person actaully lose in 12 days? I'll tell you one thing, it's not significant.


And if you think university studies are beyond the scope of err, you are being foolishly naive.

actually you could easily lose 3-4 lbs of bodymass in 12 days. In addition, studies with creatine have found differences within a small time frame like 12 days.

[str8flexed]

pogue's chart explains it quite well. You all can't seem to comprehend the fact that the supplement companies are using IN VITRO data to skew facts to their benefits. In vitro data means ********. All the in vivo data shows almost none of ingested dietary glutamine survives the gut.

Layne "pull your heads out of your asses please"

[97LT1]

I still use glutamine. The information you provided can't be denied.

LT has some thinking to do.

[u5711]

Originally posted by str8flexed
actually you could easily lose 3-4 lbs of bodymass in 12 days. In addition, studies with creatine have found differences within a small time frame like 12 days.

And you know what, I could lose 3-4 pounds in a few hours. Also, there are plenty of items that could show differences in a very short time (e.g. test prop vs test enan). However, if you're trying to silence critics then you need to remove these variables, and a 12 day study doesn't accomplish that (for this case). As I've already said, this has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not I believe that glutamine supplementation works. It's merely the fact that this study doesn't really add sufficient support to anything.

If you must know, I do not think that supplementing glutamine is worth it, so there's no need to mention what the big companies want us to think.

[goyard]

interesting, hmmmmm, lets keep the debate going!

[str8flexed]

Originally posted by 97LT1
I still use glutamine. The information you provided can't be denied.

LT has some thinking to do.

*helps keith remove head from ass*

[Anssi_Manninen]

Originally posted by u5711
You wouldnt have to work in a "graduate library" to comprehend the fact that 12 days is not sufficient time to discern a significant difference between the two groups, which is what they were looking for. I mean honestly, how much muscle does any normal person actaully lose in 12 days? I'll tell you one thing, it's not significant.

The term "significant" refers to statistically significant (i.e, P>0.05).

[u5711]

Originally posted by Anssi_Manninen
The term "significant" refers to statistically significant (i.e, P>0.05).

I used the word significant two different ways in my post. BTW, I have taken a statistics course, so I know what you meant. The facts still remain.

Also, if P>0.05, then that is actually not a significant difference .

[jhov]

Layne and Pogue have good points. Most studies on it were either in people in situations of muscle wasting and or in vitro administration! And if you are so hung up on the length in that study how about this one then:
posted on CEM by Getting Swole

That is if you're a young, resistance training, male.

Effect of glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults.

Candow DG, Chilibeck PD, Burke DG, Davison KS, Smith-Palmer T.

College of Kinesiology, University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada.

The purpose of this study was to assess the effect of oral glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults. A group of 31 subjects, aged 18-24 years, were randomly allocated to groups (double blind) to receive either glutamine (0.9 g x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 17) or a placebo (0.9 g maltodextrin x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 14 during 6 weeks of total body resistance training. Exercises were performed for four to five sets of 6-12 repetitions at intensities ranging from 60% to 90% 1 repetition maximum (1 RM). Before and after training, measurements were taken of 1 RM squat and bench press strength, peak knee extension torque (using an isokinetic dynamometer), lean tissue mass (dual energy X-ray absorptiometry) and muscle protein degradation (urinary 3-methylhistidine by high performance liquid chromatography). Repeated measures ANOVA showed that strength, torque, lean tissue mass and 3-methylhistidine increased with training (P < 0.05), with no significant difference between groups. Both groups increased their 1 RM squat by approximately 30% and 1 RM bench press by approximately 14%. The glutamine group showed increases of 6% for knee extension torque, 2% for lean tissue mass and 41% for urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine. The placebo group increased knee extension torque by 5%, lean tissue mass by 1.7% and 3-methylhistidine by 56%. We conclude that glutamine supplementation during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation in young healthy adults.

peace
j

[philcat]

Glutamine has one use in weight loss.

It makes your wallet thinner!

Like most things out there it's just hype from the sup companies.

philcat

[u5711]

Dont get confused. I think this is being blown way outta proportion. My point was simply that this new study doesn't provide any new, useful information. Im not arguing the effectiveness of the supplement. Its almost irrelevant.

Jhov, now that study would've meant something if it were the one being posted. Most would agree that time period allows for considerable changes to occur. Thats all guys, dont take all this the wrong way!

[u5711]

Originally posted by philcat
Glutamine has one use in weight loss.

It makes your wallet thinner!

Like most things out there it's just hype from the sup companies.

philcat

Now Im not the one debating this fact! LOL

[97LT1]

Originally posted by str8flexed
*helps keith remove head from ass*

What would you replace glutatine supplemation for? More protein? Maybe some form of joint supp? Reason i'm asking is because i seem to not be as sore when using glutamine. My poundages are going up at a nice pace and i would not like it to stop because of soreness.

[pogue]

Originally posted by 97LT1
What would you replace glutatine supplemation for? More protein? Maybe some form of joint supp? Reason i'm asking is because i seem to not be as sore when using glutamine. My poundages are going up at a nice pace and i would not like it to stop because of soreness.

Try some BCAAs

[u5711]

Originally posted by 97LT1
What would you replace glutatine supplemation for? More protein? Maybe some form of joint supp? Reason i'm asking is because i seem to not be as sore when using glutamine. My poundages are going up at a nice pace and i would not like it to stop because of soreness.

If you need joint support and havent already tried these, Id recommend flax/fish oils or glucosamine chondroiton with msm.