AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[Mystevees]

Is there a recommended app that someone can suggest for allpro? Specifically for IOS? I've been tracking on an excel spreadsheet and printing it but wanted to use an app instead if possible. I've tried JEFIT but can't find a way to save the weight and reps for the day. Basically every workout I use it I have to enter in the weights and number of reps per exercise. I've been searching online but was hoping someone could chime in.

[BlueEyed]

Thanks -- for the feedback. (I didn't mention it earlier, but I love this site. Thanks for updating it).

One question, you kind of lost me here . . . .

Someone could be doing a lot better than you, eating 500-1000 calories below their TDEE (vs your 100-150 cals) because they make up the deficit with cardio vs just undereating.

Do you mean increasing both my calories and my calorie burn (via cardio) by approximately the same amount -- to get to that the same 100-150 deficit? For example, on average I am burning 2600 calories and consuming 2500 leading to a 100 deficit. Are you suggesting increasing both by -- say -- 500? Burning 3100 and consuming 3000 to get to that same 100 deficit?

In the end, I suspect you are definitely on to something. My cardio is virtually non-existent. I walk 3-4 miles everyday -- but that is really about it. My caloric deficit is almost entirely from fasting/dieting. As for macros, I have never kept track of proteins, fats and carbs. I do suspect that proteins could be increased.

[nightanole]

Thanks -- for the feedback. (I didn't mention it earlier, but I love this site. Thanks for updating it).

One question, you kind of lost me here . . . .

Do you mean increasing both my calories and my calorie burn (via cardio) by approximately the same amount -- to get to that the same 100-150 deficit? For example, on average I am burning 2600 calories and consuming 2500 leading to a 100 deficit. Are you suggesting increasing both by -- say -- 500? Burning 3100 and consuming 3000 to get to that same 100 deficit?

In the end, I suspect you are definitely on to something. My cardio is virtually non-existent. I walk 3-4 miles everyday -- but that is really about it. My caloric deficit is almost entirely from fasting/dieting. As for macros, I have never kept track of proteins, fats and carbs. I do suspect that proteins could be increased.

You got it

Take 2 people with with the same bodies and a 500 cal deficit. One eats 1500 and has a 2000 cal TDEE. The other eats 2500 and has a 3000 TDEE. The guy eating 2500 is going to have a much easier time performing and recovering.

Most successful people keep the same diet all year around (other than maybe adjusting a few hundred cals of carbs) and just adjust cardio to create/remove the deficit/surplus.

[fluidZ]

In the end, I suspect you are definitely on to something. My cardio is virtually non-existent. I walk 3-4 miles everyday -- but that is really about it. My caloric deficit is almost entirely from fasting/dieting. As for macros, I have never kept track of proteins, fats and carbs. I do suspect that proteins could be increased.

NA has some great freaking wisdom!

You really need to start tracking macros!! It's easy when bulking to get enough fat and protein and carb without thinking too much about it (at least if you're dirty bulking ;} ), but these things are much more difficult to get when cutting, and screwing it up can have drastic and immediate effects on your progress and training.

I would suggest the Livestrong MyPlate app (MFP sucks IMO but is effective). Yes, it's extremely tedious when you're just starting out, but honestly I can't think of anything more important for someone that is serious and wants consistent results than tracking your macros.

After years of experience though, you get a general idea and can wing it for a while, but at a certain point you have to get pretty precise and really need the accuracy from using an app (or notebook or whatever).





If you're just starting out though, you need to be SUPER lenient with yourself.. especially if you've never lost weight / exercised before.

Even with my years of experience (not lifting, but just in general health and fitness) I put myself on a pretty loose routine for starting to cut...





First week: Don't even bother trying to count calories, or reduce calories. Just focus on eliminating the junk foods / high caloric foods (for me this was eating out, so my goal for the week was just to start making food at home... if your problem is food in the kitchen, maybe eating out would help).

Second week: start reading food labels, and keeping a loose idea of how many calories eating. Technically haven't started a BMR deficit / maintenance yet, though I have lost some weight because eating out was a big surplus area for me. Start getting your meal plan together.

Third week: Start tracking some meals first few days, and by end of week should be tracking everything that goes in your mouth. Don't obsess though, if you can't get an accurate measurement or forget something that's OK. Should have a good idea of when and what to eat.

Fourth week: Reduce calories, and follow strict tracking and any pertinent meal timings.





This was a lot easier for me than just

Day one: STOP EATING EVERYTHING AND SPEND ALL DAY PLAYING WITH YOUR PHONE, GUESSING AT WHAT AND WHEN YOU NEED TO EAT!!!




I was still losing 2-3lb a week even without putting a ton of effort and time into it.. yes, I was hungry, and had a bunch of cravings, but they were MUCH less severe than going cold turkey. You still need to have enough willpower and energy to put effort into your workouts, and just jumping right into a strict defecit with stringent tracking can be very time and willpower consuming, meaning your training could suffer... That, and going from a surplus to a deficit wreaks havoc on your body pretty quickly IMO... especially if you haven't figured out meal timing and lining it up right with your workouts.

[polivoks]

I was wondering how do we go about progressing these additional after routine exercises (dips, chinups).
Are we for example on 8 rep week be doing 8 reps of 2 sets, on 12 rep week 12 reps?
or should be always aiming to do more then we did week/month before?

[nightanole]

I was wondering how do we go about progressing these additional after routine exercises (dips, chinups).
Are we for example on 8 rep week be doing 8 reps of 2 sets, on 12 rep week 12 reps?
or should be always aiming to do more then we did week/month before?

Do whatever you want as long as it does not affect the core program. I normally recommend a "fixed" amount per workout.

For example if you are doing dips, have a fixed amount of dips per workout, but you are still adding reps to OHP and bench each week, so volume is still being added each week to promote hypertrophy for chest/shoulders.

For a progression pattern, you could do a AMRAP set of your accessory on test day, to figure out if you should add weight next cycle. So if you where doing 2 sets of 8 dips (using your 10 rep max for a RPE 8 work set) and got good and could do 15 on test day, its time to add some weight to knock you back down to 10 reps.

[polivoks]

Do whatever you want as long as it does not affect the core program. I normally recommend a "fixed" amount per workout.

For example if you are doing dips, have a fixed amount of dips per workout, but you are still adding reps to OHP and bench each week, so volume is still being added each week to promote hypertrophy for chest/shoulders.

For a progression pattern, you could do a AMRAP set of your accessory on test day, to figure out if you should add weight next cycle. So if you where doing 2 sets of 8 dips (using your 10 rep max for a RPE 8 work set) and got good and could do 15 on test day, its time to add some weight to knock you back down to 10 reps.

Ok makes sense. So if i pass a test day with no fails on BP/OHP, and usually do dips of 8 rep 2 sets, and after test i go AMRAP and fail on 15th, does this mean i can be adding more then 10 percent weight to BP/OHP on next heavy 8 rep week?

[nightanole]

Ok makes sense. So if i pass a test day with no fails on BP/OHP, and usually do dips of 8 rep 2 sets, and after test i go AMRAP and fail on 15th, does this mean i can be adding more then 10 percent weight to BP/OHP on next heavy 8 rep week?

For that test, you can do either ohp or bench at 115% or whatever for 1 set on light day of test week. if you get in 10 reps you are gold for next cycle, else stick with 10%.

[polivoks]

I heard that some bodybuilders advise not doing benchpress because of estetic effect they can create (having large boob like pecs) and for tendon/rotator cuff risk of injury, and advise doing dumbell press instead. Does this make any sense to us beginner lifters?

[nightanole]

I heard that some bodybuilders advise not doing benchpress because of estetic effect they can create (having large boob like pecs) and for tendon/rotator cuff risk of injury, and advise doing dumbell press instead. Does this make any sense to us beginner lifters?

Always going super wide on the bench and all the above can happen, if that is all the pressing you do.

If you keep your index fingers on the 81cm space rings(the widest legal grip allowed) or closer (i keep my pinkies on the rings) you will not have the rotator cuff problems. Combine that with doing the OHP and the row to balance out the shoulder girdle, and you wont get weird upper body proportions. Rotate in accessories like face pulls and lateral raises, and you reenforce the shoulders even more.

[aryonoco]

I heard that some bodybuilders advise not doing benchpress because of estetic effect they can create (having large boob like pecs) and for tendon/rotator cuff risk of injury, and advise doing dumbell press instead. Does this make any sense to us beginner lifters?

There is nothing better for building the upper body than the barbell bench press.

Aesthetically, you create a balanced look by making sure you have a balance program. As a beginner, just stick to a tried and tested program like this Eventually after years of training, you'll know what to add/remove based on what you see in the mirror.

As for rotator cuff, make sure you have good form. Good form means no injury. Bad form means injury. This is true for any exercise in any sport basically. Not only in weight lifting, it's even true in swimming, or yoga.

As night said, OHP and bent over row will make sure the shoulders are taken care of. You can also add face pulls to the mix which many people find to be a good exercise.

[HealthMoney]

Q3: Will I gain muscle mass on this routine?
A: despite what you may think, gaining muscle mass is not just about lifting weights; the training is just a catalyst, which will create the conditions necessary for new musclee to be built. However, to actually build that muscle, you need to eat at a calorie surplus (consume more calories than you burn). There is no way around this, and you will not be able to avoid having to do some simple calculations if you want results. To understand this, visit this thread: URL and make sure to read and understand the entire first post by Emma. If you have any questions regarding diet, ask them in that thread. This is possibly the single most important thread you can read over here - if you will only read on thread, let it be that one.

Where did the post by Emma went? Is this (Nutrition For Newbies & Must Read Threads in the nutrition forum) the one? Sorry I can't post direct URLs, I haven't got the required amount of posts.

Thanks in advance everyone

[nightanole]

Where did the post by Emma went? Is this (Nutrition For Newbies & Must Read Threads in the nutrition forum) the one? Sorry I can't post direct URLs, I haven't got the required amount of posts.

Thanks in advance everyone

It got rewritten. It just went to the general nutrition sticky anyway...


https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&ct=clnk&gl=us


https://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13

[zukias]

I am just starting out and I am fine with everything except squats. The first week was easy, but I find that fatigue from previous sessions is still there for squats, whereas its not for the other exercises. Just started 2nd week so am on 9 reps and could only manage a disappointing 5 squats on my first set. Should I just keep lowering the weight until I can do it and make that the new weight I squat with, or should I just wait a little bit longer between sessions?

[nightanole]

I am just starting out and I am fine with everything except squats. The first week was easy, but I find that fatigue from previous sessions is still there, whereas its not for the other exercises. Just started 2nd week so am on 9 reps and could only manage a disappointing 5 squats on my first set. Should I just keep lowering the weight until I can do it and make that the new weight I squat with, or should I just wait a little bit longer between sessions?

Its a fatigue based training style. Deload either 10 or 20%, aka make either light day or medium day your new heavy. I just make light day your new heavy, and try to bump more than 10% at the end of the cycle. Its going to take you about 6 weeks to adapt.

Most of the time, the people who have the hardest time with squats, change their back angle or flex as they go up and down. This creates ALOT of eccentric loading on the poor muscles that are only meant for static holds (maintaining back angle or keeping a neutral spine) and will lead to massive doms. However if you are just sore all over, you just picked too heavy of a weight to recover from.

And yes you are not allowed to recover, done correctly, medium day will be harder than heavy day.

[fluidZ]

Its a fatigue based training style. Deload either 10 or 20%, aka make either light day or medium day your new heavy. I just make light day your new heavy, and try to bump more than 10% at the end of the cycle. Its going to take you about 6 weeks to adapt.

Most of the time, the people who have the hardest time with squats, change their back angle or flex as they go up and down. This creates ALOT of eccentric loading on the poor muscles that are only meant for static holds (maintaining back angle or keeping a neutral spine) and will lead to massive doms. However if you are just sore all over, you just picked too heavy of a weight to recover from.

And yes you are not allowed to recover, done correctly, medium day will be harder than heavy day.

Hnn can you elaborate on the flex thing? I try to brace hard enough just shy of pooping may shorts, and flexing everything to keep tight, lol.

Also, my medium and light day are just that... Then again I kind of feel like I could do all 3 days consecutively right now...

I feel like I picked heavy enough weights though... Maybe my recovery /!capacity is just high ?

[nightanole]

Hnn can you elaborate on the flex thing? I try to brace hard enough just shy of pooping may shorts, and flexing everything to keep tight, lol.

Also, my medium and light day are just that... Then again I kind of feel like I could do all 3 days consecutively right now...

I feel like I picked heavy enough weights though... Maybe my recovery /!capacity is just high ?

Flexing your back is when you look like a monkey sitting at the bottom of the squat. AKA you are not maintaining a neutral spine, so the spinal erectors are forced to do dynamic work instead of static holds. If you do not maintain the same back angle, your hamstrings will stretch on the way down(or the first few inches on the way up) which again causes massive doms.

For core bracing, its just sucking in a big gut of air, and trying to shove your belly button into your spine. You are not tensing for a punch to the gut, that just makes the spinal erectors work over time.

And again this is fatigue based, you might get 10 reps at 100lbs fresh, but to complete the cycle you might need to drop it down to 75lbs till you are used to the workout.

[aryonoco]

Question about the rest times between sets Night.

I've been following your advice, and I generally take 80 seconds between sets on my heavy days, and 50 seconds between sets on my medium and light days.

But I'm seeing a lot of research that suggests that longer rest times are better, as it allows the person to lift higher volumes, which seems to be the major contributing factor for hypertrophy.

And anecdotally, I'd say that whenever I have been forced to take a longer rest (when working in with someone else for example), I've been able to perform my second set better.

So, what's the principle behind having short rest time in Allpro? And would it be detrimental if I increased the rest times to say 2 minutes?

[nightanole]

Question about the rest times between sets Night.

I've been following your advice, and I generally take 80 seconds between sets on my heavy days, and 50 seconds between sets on my medium and light days.

But I'm seeing a lot of research that suggests that longer rest times are better, as it allows the person to lift higher volumes, which seems to be the major contributing factor for hypertrophy.

And anecdotally, I'd say that whenever I have been forced to take a longer rest (when working in with someone else for example), I've been able to perform my second set better.

So, what's the principle behind having short rest time in Allpro? And would it be detrimental if I increased the rest times to say 2 minutes?

Unlimited rest time is what starting strength relies on. On that program (and most 5x5 programs) you are only allowed to miss reps that session, if you missed them on the first set. If you missed them on any other set, and got in 5 reps on the first set, you "rushed" the sets.

So under that training style, your logic applies, because other wise the lifter would have to reduce either reps or weight to complete all the sets. This reduces volume, all because the lifter didnt rest long enough.

However Other programs do not rely on this. Other programs, such as allpro, use the rest time for progression regulation, and to hit the upper threshold fibers.

Ive written this odds are a dozen times, so lets see if i can regurgitate how allpro really works.


In order for a beginner program to be optimal, it need to get in 10-15 quality reps per session, per compound. A quality rep is one that hits the very top end of the muscle fiber recruitment ladder.

Your muscles have thin, slow to fatigue, low output fibers. These grow the least, not matter how much your work them out. You use them millions of reps a day, just typing like i am now.
As you move up the ladder, you encounter thicker and thicker muscle fibers. As they get thicker, they fatigue quicker, but can output more. They also have the capability of growing more.
To "workout" the thicker fibers, you need to do 1 of 2 things, or a combo.
You can wear out the smaller fibers, so the muscle is forced to work its way up the ladder and engage thicker and thicker fibers as the thinner ones wear out.
Or you can increase intensity of the rep, which causes the muscle to use the thicker fibers much earlier.

On a 3x5 setup, the first 2 reps wear out the lower threshold fibers, so you get 3 quality reps from the first set. On the second set you might get 4 quality reps, and maybe 4-5 quality reps on the 3rd set depending on how close you are to triggering a deload.

On allpro on the first set the first 5-6 reps wear out the lower threshold fibers, so you get 2-6 quality reps.
Now here is the key to the 90 second or less rest requirement. The thickest fibers will recover the fastest, because they did very little work. The longer the rest, the more and more of the lower threshold fibers will start engaging again.
So with the short rest, almost the entire 2nd set is quality reps. However if you wait somewhere around 3-5 minutes, you are completely recovered, and its just like doing the first set over again.

So with the rest limit, you are getting in the 10-15 quality reps. Without the rest limit, you might only be getting in 5 quality reps at the beginning of the cycle.

[aryonoco]

So with the rest limit, you are getting in the 10-15 quality reps. Without the rest limit, you might only be getting in 5 quality reps at the beginning of the cycle.

You're absolutely right and you had explained this before, I had just forgotten. Thanks for explaining it again.

I'll keep following the allpro recommended rest times.

[stn0404]

Just too many posts in this thread to follow.

If i have asked a repeated question i am sorry about that.

If i am using dumbbell but couldn't find an appropriate weight for the 10% or 20% decrements, should i continue to use the same weight or reduce sets?

[nightanole]

Just too many posts in this thread to follow.

If i have asked a repeated question i am sorry about that.

If i am using dumbbell but couldn't find an appropriate weight for the 10% or 20% decrements, should i continue to use the same weight or reduce sets?

Best bet is to use the auto regulated variant so you dont have to switch weights, else the only option is to go down in weight increments, and drastically reduce rest time. Still even with the reduced rest time trick, how will you bump next cycle if you have to bump 20-30% at a time?

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1376160513

For dumb bells:
squat is replaced with goblet squat
bench is replaced with db floor press(unless you really know where your chest line is, else you are going to go too deep)
OHP is replaced with the seated arnold press
SLDL and row might need to be switched to hammer grip depending on how wide the db plates are

[polivoks]

On warmup stretching routines agile8/limber11 there is a foam rolling of it bands step..
im doing full foam rolling before and after my routine, but i stopped rolling it bands
cause i heard that its not good at all doing.
so whats recommended then?

[nightanole]

On warmup stretching routines agile8/limber11 there is a foam rolling of it bands step..
im doing full foam rolling before and after my routine, but i stopped rolling it bands
cause i heard that its not good at all doing.
so whats recommended then?

Cant help you on that one. Im of the same opinion as rippetoe in that static stretching and foam rolling are completely useless before a workout, and borderline useless afterwards.

If you spend 10min doing it, you just increased your workout by 25%, if you spend 15min, you just increased it 33%. I hope you got good returns on your investment vs learning a new lift or doing GPP work.

[aryonoco]

so whats recommended then?

Foam rolling and stretching are very much controversial subjects online. The science is very much not clear on whether they have any benefits or not. That doesn't mean they don't have benefits, it just means that scientifically speaking, it's not clear that they do.

Do them if you like them and if you think they help. Otherwise, don't.

Personally I did lots of stretching when I first got into lifting cause my flexibility was crap and all my muscles were tight. I feel like they helped me at that time, but as my flexibility improved and I could squat properly, I reduced the time I spent on stretching and foam rolling. Now I just use the foam roller a few times a week to stretch my IT band and my quads (which for me are always tight), and do some dynamic stretches before workout just to increase the heart rate and put myself "in the zone".

If there are any specific muscles that feel tight, use the foam roller on them. But there is no point doing an "all body" foam rolling and going over every muscle for the sake of it.

[rlefebvr]

Hi nightanole

My daughter is training 5 days a week, cardio on those insanity workout tapes.

Trying to get her to substitute 2 days of weight training using AllPro heavy- heavy or heavy- medium.

She will only be using dumbbells, but it should be ok for at least 6 months to a year.

Anything different because she is female.

[nightanole]

Hi nightanole

My daughter is training 5 days a week, cardio on those insanity workout tapes.

Trying to get her to substitute 2 days of weight training using AllPro heavy- heavy or heavy- medium.

She will only be using dumbbells, but it should be ok for at least 6 months to a year.

Anything different because she is female.

Nope. Just remember than heavy heavy requires 3 sets of bench/row/squat to make up for the missing day.

Girls tend to pass half as many test days as guys in a fixed time frame, but girls can run the program twice as long before failing 2 test days in a row on the big 3. So the son might pass every test day for 6 months and move onto a 2 year intermediate routine, while the daughter might run the program for a year, passing every other test day.

For dumb bells:
squat is replaced with a goblet squat
bench and row are normally switched to hammer grip, and bench may even be switched to floor press if the lifter has a habit of going way too deep(below the chest line)
The OHP is replaced with either the seated or standing arnold press, depending on how awkward it is.
SLDL can be switched to hammer grip if you find the lifter hyperextending at the top.

Graduating stats are something like 1 rep of bw squats (she has to be able to do it, not a calculated 1rm) and 10 reps of 2/3-3/4 bw bench. Its been quite a few years since i posted them so i might be off a little.

[stn0404]

will the side delts lag big time under this routine?

[nightanole]

will the side delts lag big time under this routine?

If you mine the meta data, what lags on this program is side delts and lats. However those are what rides a little above the noise. We have 2 accessories for a reason, and if you do upright rows instead of curls, you will at least not have the side delt problem. Then again what if the lifter didnt have a shoulder problem but did have a quad problem, side delt work would be useless.

[fluidZ]

For core bracing, its just sucking in a big gut of air, and trying to shove your belly button into your spine. You are not tensing for a punch to the gut, that just makes the spinal erectors work over time.

Ok, so basically trying to do a tummy vacuum but with a full gut of air?

My PL friends have been telling me to 'brace like you're trying hard to take a sh!t' which is like trying to take a punch I guess.