Moving forward in Reverse: Devils post-show recovery thread

[TheNaturalOak]

any reason for the relatively high fat intake? Most days are 100g +
Is this just because you prefer fatty foods? Dont want the extra calories from carbs?

[Devils]

I just found your log. Man, awesome stuff. I've never stepped on stage but find the whole process and the mindset of those that do very fascinating. Good luck with your show!

Finished the show, thanks.

10/10 advice.

I recently came off a very aggressive cut and I had no idea what extended periods of a calorie deficit could have on the body. I was angry all the time, libido was shot, etc. I remember those first few weeks after I literally could not get full. I binged for about a week and was pretty shocked with how fast the body fat came back on. On the plus side, I sure was strong.

Yes, the sooner you understand that you will never be satisfied no matter how much you stuff your face, the sooner you can pull things back and just be patient with your recovery. Just accept you're going to be hungry for a few weeks longer regardless of your intake and play it smart.

any reason for the relatively high fat intake? Most days are 100g +
Is this just because you prefer fatty foods? Dont want the extra calories from carbs?

Tastes good?

Nah, I've picked up that stuffing in a lot of carbohydrates isn't always the best way to gain, and if we're speaking broscience, it may be messing around with your insulin sensitivity by having 400+ g of carbs day in day out.

I would argue that fats are very important in someones diet, then protein, then carbs. But saying that it's important to keep things balanced I guess.

I'm purely eating based on the scale, If I'm heavier that morning I will cut back the calories, If I'm lighter I will enjoy some extra fats. Obviously If I was gaining weight rapidly I would be eating less fat in order to conserve calories. Thanks for the question.

[Zachary533]

I think in terms of bulking from my own experience, fats and carb are very interchangeable as long as you hit a baseline amount of each (for carbs its 260g for me, and fats is 65g).

I really need to buy an accurate set of scales tonight. Have you got any spreadsheets/apps you recommend that track daily/weekly changes in weight and macros Devils?

[deltpecx]

...
Tastes good?

Nah, I've picked up that stuffing in a lot of carbohydrates isn't always the best way to gain, and if we're speaking broscience, it may be messing around with your insulin sensitivity by having 400+ g of carbs day in day out.

I would argue that fats are very important in someones diet, then protein, then carbs. But saying that it's important to keep things balanced I guess.

I'm purely eating based on the scale, If I'm heavier that morning I will cut back the calories, If I'm lighter I will enjoy some extra fats. Obviously If I was gaining weight rapidly I would be eating less fat in order to conserve calories. Thanks for the question.

During my first show prep, second prep diet, I would regularly go over 100g of fat and would always drop weight the next day or two.

[TheNaturalOak]

Finished the show, thanks.



Yes, the sooner you understand that you will never be satisfied no matter how much you stuff your face, the sooner you can pull things back and just be patient with your recovery. Just accept you're going to be hungry for a few weeks longer regardless of your intake and play it smart.



Tastes good?

Nah, I've picked up that stuffing in a lot of carbohydrates isn't always the best way to gain, and if we're speaking broscience, it may be messing around with your insulin sensitivity by having 400+ g of carbs day in day out.

I would argue that fats are very important in someones diet, then protein, then carbs. But saying that it's important to keep things balanced I guess.

I'm purely eating based on the scale, If I'm heavier that morning I will cut back the calories, If I'm lighter I will enjoy some extra fats. Obviously If I was gaining weight rapidly I would be eating less fat in order to conserve calories. Thanks for the question.

Makes sense, thanks

I think in terms of bulking from my own experience, fats and carb are very interchangeable as long as you hit a baseline amount of each (for carbs its 260g for me, and fats is 65g).

I really need to buy an accurate set of scales tonight. Have you got any spreadsheets/apps you recommend that track daily/weekly changes in weight and macros Devils?

During my first show prep, second prep diet, I would regularly go over 100g of fat and would always drop weight the next day or two.

These two comments seem iffy to me as I find it hard to contribute the results solely on the one variable or meaningless numbers you believe it to be.

[deltpecx]

..These two comments seem iffy to me as I find it hard to contribute the results solely on the one variable or meaningless numbers you believe it to be.

That's fine..that's what happened.

[TheNaturalOak]

That's fine..that's what happened.

oh I wasnt doubting you, just saying there are far more variables....

TDEE (previous days b4? )
Water
electrolytes
glycogen
total calorie deficit

Just so many variables to chalk something up as "ate 100g fat = lose weight" ... wasnt trying to sound like an ass lol

[Devils]

I think in terms of bulking from my own experience, fats and carb are very interchangeable as long as you hit a baseline amount of each (for carbs its 260g for me, and fats is 65g).

I really need to buy an accurate set of scales tonight. Have you got any spreadsheets/apps you recommend that track daily/weekly changes in weight and macros Devils?

I just downloaded the CalorieKing program for PC as a trial, seems to work good, lots of common Aussie foods. The battery on my scales just ran out so I'm going to have to pick up a new one asap.

Makes sense, thanks

These two comments seem iffy to me as I find it hard to contribute the results solely on the one variable or meaningless numbers you believe it to be.

True, you cant really trust yourself or other people to be accurate, that's why I don't usually count or weigh food, at the end of the day all I care about is;

the weight on the scale,
how lean I look,
Gym performance and recovery

If I can get what I want eating 100g of fat one day and 40g fat the next, then what does it matter.

[domingochavez]

I just downloaded the CalorieKing program for PC as a trial, seems to work good, lots of common Aussie foods. The battery on my scales just ran out so I'm going to have to pick up a new one asap.



True, you cant really trust yourself or other people to be accurate, that's why I don't usually count or weigh food, at the end of the day all I care about is;

the weight on the scale,
how lean I look,
Gym performance and recovery

If I can get what I want eating 100g of fat one day and 40g fat the next, then what does it matter.

Dude you're not splitting enough hairs, is this optimal, are you getting that extra 0.0001% benefit??

[Devils]

Day 4, Week 3 Rest

Morning Weight = 75.5kg


*

Training

Spin Bike Warmup, 5 minutes @ Level 15
Windgates, 4 x 30 seconds @ Level 20
Cooldown 15 minutes @ level 14

*

Nutrition

Approx 3072 calories, 216p, 344c, 90f

Omelet, WPC Shake with Coffee, 2 slices of bread, 1 croissant,
WPC Milo Shake,
Bolognase style mince and vegetables, Strawberry Yogurt,
WPC Milo Shake, Chocolate nut bar, Homemade Fiber cupcake, Strawberry Yogurt, Bolognase mince and vegetables,
Chicken and chick pea curry with rice.

*

Thoughts

Had a rest day, but ended up having a break at work so jumped on the spin bike for some windgates.


*


Day 5, Week 3 Lower Body

Morning Weight = 75.9kg


Training

Spin Bike Warmup, 5 minutes @ Level 15



Lying Leg Curl Single Leg, Level 3 x 15-15, Double Leg, Level 8 x 12-12-12
Sled Calf Raise 150kg x 25-25-25-22
Walking Lunges 35kg x 20-22* ( Tweaked my left knee)
Leg Extension Single Leg, Level 3 x 15-15,15 (slow squeeze)
Hip Abductor machine Level 15 x 15, Level 21 x 20-15-15

*

Nutrition

Approx 3010 calories, 165.4p, 318.6c, 114f

WPC Milo Shake, 4 slices of bread with Jam, Omelet,
Chicken mince burger with avocado and yogurt,
WPC Milo Shake, 2 Chicken mince sandwhiches with salad, 6 homemade fiber cupcakes,
WPC Chocolate Shake.


*

Thoughts

During my walking lunges I tweaked my left knee, old problem, so I finished the set and did some stretches at the end, will rest it over the next few days before going back. I've always hated lunges, maybe I'll go back to squats soon. BTW, bought some Milo if you cant tell, love the stuff. I'm having this as I take a break from coffee.

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Dude you're not splitting enough hairs, is this optimal, are you getting that extra 0.0001% benefit??

Do I detect a slight hint of sarcasm?

When it comes down to it, literally nothing matters as much as are you getting enough calories to gain muscle, or are you getting enough calories to lose weight. No point fussing over everything else until you meet this targets.

[Balddude]

Milo...the drink for CHAMPIONS

[deltpecx]

...If I can get what I want eating 100g of fat one day and 40g fat the next, then what does it matter.

Exactly.

[jpfaherty]

Exactly.

I'd say protein intake certainly matters and should stay consistent.

I like the philosophy with fats and carbs though.

[Devils]

I'd say protein intake certainly matters and should stay consistent.

I like the philosophy with fats and carbs though.

True, but a few things to consider are;

Protein requirements are much less than what's currently advocated in the bodybuilding community,
Long term weight lifters require less protein than newbie lifters,
When in caloric surplus, protein becomes less essential

I will just have to experiment using myself on this, at some point I want to try around 150g of protein a day regularly and track my progress. After training for 6 years I'm not going to get significant gains in muscle tissue so having over 1g per lb of bodyweight just seems pointless.

I'll put this into practice once my protein powder runs out, this should reduce my intake by about 40-50%

[The Solution]

Once your kcals do get to a significant factor, do you think you will get adequate leucine amount considering that once your kcals rise you will get mostly trace protein as your carbs/fat raise to a significant level that you dont really get enough true protein per meal?

[Devils]

Once your kcals do get to a significant factor, do you think you will get adequate leucine amount considering that once your kcals rise you will get mostly trace protein as your carbs/fat raise to a significant level that you dont really get enough true protein per meal?

I think protein synthesis will still occur at an adequate rate, I mean load up someone with all the leucine in the world and their muscle gains will still bottom out at their genetic limit.

I would expect muscle gains to bottom out after a certain point and the reliance on high protein to build and maintain that muscle will be less important.

[apac21]

I've scrolled through every page of this thread and I have one simple question
Let me start by saying Congratulations on winning your show !
My question is how come your training is so basic now that you're eating at a surplus again and looking to put on muscle?
I just finished a 12 week cut and I went straight into Push/legs/Pull type of routine, twice a week / aka moderate to high volume training, trying to push my body as hard as possible for the next couple 5-6 months before i do another cut again.

[Bonkies]

^ He has a back injury.

Also Devils I forgot to mention last time glute bridges for legs days are pretty back friendly, gets some weird looks though.

[Devils]

Day 6, Week 3 Upper Body

Morning Weight = 76.2kg


Training

Spin Bike Warmup, 5 minutes @ Level 15

Barbell Bench Press 20kg x 30, 40kg x 15, 60kg x 4, 100kg x 8-6
Incline Barbell Press 60kg x 12-12, 80kg x 6-5
Pullups 28 reps bodyweight, 30kg x 6-6
Seated Cable Row Level 12 x 12-12
Cable Shrug 46kg x 30-30-30

*

Nutrition

Approx 2910 calories, 228.7p, 292.7c, 83.3f

WPC Milo Shake, 4 slices of bread with Jam, Omelet,
Spoon of Sunflower Butter, 2 cheese and salad sandwhiches, WPC Strawberry shake,
Salad with avocado, oven baked chips, porterhouse steak sandwhich, sweet chilli and mayo sauces,
WPC Strawberry shake.


*

Thoughts

My local gym is closed for 2 weeks for renovations and new equipment, I'm very excited about this upgrade and will probably want to workout everyday for a week once it's all ready. In the meantime I'll use the pools and spa and train weights at work.

Had a shit sleep this morning and ended up having a busy day, had to train at about 5pm. Felt good though. After work went to buy some icecream and a nice gourmet pizza, but upon seeing my scale weight at 76.7kg I decided against having big dinner so I'll just push it back to lunch tomorrow, a bit of willpower in effect here. Sure I'm hungry enough to eat the whole thing but why mess with my progress? It's going to taste just as good tomorrow. So just remember this the next time you are struggling to control yourself.

--------------------------------

I've scrolled through every page of this thread and I have one simple question
Let me start by saying Congratulations on winning your show !
My question is how come your training is so basic now that you're eating at a surplus again and looking to put on muscle?
I just finished a 12 week cut and I went straight into Push/legs/Pull type of routine, twice a week / aka moderate to high volume training, trying to push my body as hard as possible for the next couple 5-6 months before i do another cut again.

Hi, just to clarify I won my open division, not the overall show.
What's off about my training? compound lifts are there and I'm using simple/double progression to periodize my training. If I'm getting stronger each exercise each week then I think I'm putting on muscle.

I am currently doing Upper/Lower/Rest/Upper/Lower/Rest, it's working out fine so far. My bench press has been up to 115kg x 5 when I was 90kg bodyweight, so If I reach that in the next 3-6 months being 80kg bodyweight, then I think I've been pretty successful. You'll just have to keep following.

^ He has a back injury.

Also Devils I forgot to mention last time glute bridges for legs days are pretty back friendly, gets some weird looks though.

I did this one day years ago, it absolutely destroyed my lower back and I will never consider doing it again, I'm not even interested in going back to try the form.

[Ccm644]

Progress is going well and you certainly know how to control it!

As mentioned before you go by the scale and how your looking, do you have an aim for what you would like to gain in the offseason... For example on a monthly basis etc?

[Devils]

Progress is going well and you certainly know how to control it!

As mentioned before you go by the scale and how your looking, do you have an aim for what you would like to gain in the offseason... For example on a monthly basis etc?

Consistently? 1kg or 2.2 lbs a month is the general plan. I may gain more if I feel like I'm not enjoying myself. I plan to keep this rate of gain up for the next 2 years or so, so at least 40 lbs gained.

[Devils]

Day 7, Week 3 Rest/Upper Body

Morning Weight = 75.8kg


Training

Bike Ride around park 20 minutes @ Moderate Intensity
Spin Bike Warmup, 10 minutes @ Level 15

Pushups 3 x Max reps
Pulldowns 3 x Max reps
Fitball Crunch 4 x Max reps
Fitball Back Extensions 3 x Max reps
Foam Roller 10 mins on quads

*

Nutrition

Approx 4011 calories, 209p, 496c, 129.4f

WPC Milo Shake, 5 slices of bread with Jam, Omelet,
WPC Shake + 6 piece salmon sushi,
Chicken and tomato pizza, Bowl of ice cream,

WPC Shake
Large salad, bowl of ice cream and frozen yogurt with another Salami and artichoke pizza.

*

Cadbury's Caramello Ice Cream


Nice caramel mixed through this one, but overall felt like it was too soft in texture.

Blue Ribbon Peppermint Cream 3 in 1


Not the best quality, just cheap mint flavoring with no flare. Chocolate part was ok.

*

Thoughts

Good eats today. Just did some pump up at the gym while my gf trained, did some good mobility work on my quads, I'll need to really keep working on foam rolling as it's excruciating at the moment. Big cardio session at the stairs tomorrow morning so lucky I'm carb loaded!

Here are some more images I forgot to upload, taken from meals during the week. The burgers are pretty much my favorite lunches. I had them all through prep, slightly different each time.

Beef burger with Cheese Peas


*

Fried Onion with Chips and Steak Burger


*

Thai Cashew Chicken

[JulianBee]

I'm mirin that pizza and steak burger bro! mmmmmm

[Bnizzle163]

Training and eats are looking on point. I like the approach and mindset, Devils.

[The Solution]

Thai Cashew Chicken looks good, got a recipe?

[Devils]

I'm mirin that pizza and steak burger bro! mmmmmm

Training and eats are looking on point. I like the approach and mindset, Devils.

Thanks guys.

Thai Cashew Chicken looks good, got a recipe?

This was at a resultant, but I would think the recipe is easily available online.

---

Woke up this morning at 76.3kg dry weight, I just had a shake for breakfast and will go train in about an hour and a half. Will probably eat again at lunchtime.

^^ Edit: 10 am, Just woke up from a nap after training at the stairs, went to the toilet and weighed in at 75.3k. So I obviously sweated a lot during cardio, however a lower than expected result considering yesterdays eating.

[Devils]

Day 1, Week 4, Sunday Cardio

Morning Weight = 75.3kg dehydrated

Training

Mountain Trail w Stairs 6 Laps, 20-30 minutes

*

Nutrition

Approx 3767 calories, 251p, 330c, 144f

WPC Milo Shake,
1 Croissant with lean porterhouse steak

WPC Milo Shake
McDonalds $2 menu; 1 cheeseburger, 1 bacon burger, 1 chicken burger, 2 small fries, 1 chicken bites
Homemade Pumpkin soup with toasted dipping bread


*

Thoughts

I'm going to make a small effort in getting more pictures of my daily food, it's not going to be "food porn" but rather "whatever I've put on the plate" so don't expect and flare or filters.

Went to the park and did a steep walk trail cut into the side of the mount, pretty good workout. Knee's are a bit sore while stepping up and down, I wore knee wraps to keep out the cold. I might train legs tomorrow or just upperbody then legs Tuesday for some extra rest. I would like to do a few more days of foam roller.

Eats were good, went shopping for some house stuff and couldn't resist some Macca's as I had about $10 burning a hole in my pocket. The gf has put a block on me going food shopping for at least 2 weeks as I've been coming home with random pickups pretty much daily. I just cant resist when I see things on special and I end up buying too much, freezer is damm near overflowing when opened. I guess I have a problem. Anyways, keen for my 4th week starting tomorrow.

Here's some statistics for the last 3 weeks of my reverse so far;


AVERAGE DAILY CALORIES IN 20 DAYS OF RECORDS = 3125.65 Calories
AVERAGE DAILY FAT INTAKE = 109.49 g
AVERAGE DAILY CARBOHYDRATE INTAKE = 333.27 g
AVERAGE DAILY PROTEIN INTAKE = 220.91 g


Some pretty good info here, I've tried to keep it pretty consistent, so not too many huge spikes or just eating crap all the time. Training has been going really well and increasing strength almost every workout. Cardio is at 4 days a week at least and daily activity is moderate.

[jpfaherty]

Damn! Nice eats brah

You ever gonna drop the cardio down from 4 days a week?

[Devils]

Damn! Nice eats brah

You ever gonna drop the cardio down from 4 days a week?

Prob not, when I say cardio I mean windgates/bike sprints, which take literally 6-7 mins each time. Certainly worth it considering the benifits. Plus it's fun. Neglecting heart health in the offseason is not something I want to be guilty of again.

[shoefanatic23]

Sub'd, although I know I'm late. Congrats on the win! I have read the 6 pages of this thread and tons for great information and insight. Thanks.