Less Than 10 Weeks Remaining, No Backing Down!

[llopezxx]

To be honest, I would just keep the refeed macros as you've always had them. With only 9 weeks left(?), I wouldnt want to change anything up like that unless you had to. But than again, I dont think it would hurt one time to lower protein and up carbs a little bit, as long as the caloric value at the end of the day is the same. Maybe someone else can input on this.

Also Happy Birthday! lol

[Incubusfan18]

To be honest, I would just keep the refeed macros as you've always had them. With only 9 weeks left(?), I wouldnt want to change anything up like that unless you had to. But than again, I dont think it would hurt one time to lower protein and up carbs a little bit, as long as the caloric value at the end of the day is the same. Maybe someone else can input on this.

Also Happy Birthday! lol

Yeah I'm not quite sure about the refeed macros because it seems like there's no general consensus. Some simply increase carbs by 150 and keep protein and fat the same. Others decrease protein to bodyweight in grams, slightly lower fat, and up the carbs to make up for that. So I could do something like 40/330/200, 40/380/150, or even 35/390/150.

And thanks! Last day as a teenager tomorrow ha

[Incubusfan18]

Nailed my macros today: 39.6/180.6/199.9

I'm ending the night with some proats, nothing special. Quaker oats (old fashioned), chocolate ice cream Ultra Whey Pro, and a little Teddie all natural pb. Really simple but really hits the spot.

[llopezxx]

You decide what to refeed with today?

[Incubusfan18]

You decide what to refeed with today?

Yeah gonna try for 35/390/150. I'm at 11/165/47 right now .

My gf took a couple of pictures this morning, just after I had woken up so I look pretty flat with absolutely no food in me. Also, the lighting is a little weird and makes my left side look more defined, which isn't the case. Also, I think I unknowingly flex my left lat harder than my right...gonna have to work on that.



Here is a BDB from just under 3 weeks ago, post-refeed, so you guys can have an idea of the progress I'm making.

[Incubusfan18]

Chest & Arms Hypertrophy

Incline BB Bench

6 x 100 x 3

Speed work.

Flat DB Press

50 x 10
55 x 10
60 x 8

Kept these pretty light today, just focusing on getting a deep stretch and good squeeze at the top.

Smith Machine Medium Grip Bench Press

135 x 10
165 x 6 -> 135 x 6
2 x 135 x 10

Low Cable Flyes

2 sets

High Cable Flyes

2 sets

Machine Press

4 sets

Smith Machine Decline CGBP

135 x 10
165 x 6 -> 135 x 6
2 x 135 x 10

One Arm Overhead DB Extensions

3 sets

Elbows Flared Pushdowns superset High Cable Rope Extensions

3 sets

Strict DB Hammer Curls

20 x 15
25 x 10
30 x 8
25 x 10

DB Spider Curls

4 sets

Dips superset Cable Curls

3 sets

[llopezxx]

You can definitely see you getting leaner, more detail in the delts also. Good job!

[Incubusfan18]

You can definitely see you getting leaner, more detail in the delts also. Good job!

Thanks man! Refeed macros were nearly perfect: 35.7/390.0/151.1

[llopezxx]

Good stuff, what did you weigh after your refeed?

[Incubusfan18]

Good stuff, what did you weigh after your refeed?

Not sure, I'm going to the gym to do cardio soon so I'll weigh myself pre-cardio and post my weight when I get back.

Here are a few new pictures, taken this morning just after waking up on an empty stomach. First is an ab and thigh and the second is a vacuum.



U mirin' aesthetics son?

[Frankdaddy]

Doign pretty well, how far out are you now, 8-9 weeks? I think if I were you I would do as your title sais, no backing down. I would make a drop in something by the week and add some cardio and back off slightly on lifting volume, just slightly. You have to make up your mind, do you want to come in condition or do you want to lack it, and then when the show is over "next year I will get my conditioning better" cause ive done that at every year, even though I come in better each time, I want my best now. Dont make that mistake! At this point you may deplete yourself but with drastic changes and a lot more cardio for 4-5 weeks I dont think will harm you as much as the over trainers may think. I have seen guys drop massive weight in 18 weeks of diets and still look as full and hard and just as big and be fat as bears before starting and then fill out in time. I would go balls out now and fill out the last 2 weeks slowly. Anybody else agree?



I dont know about your backside but you arent too bad off from the front.

[Incubusfan18]

Doign pretty well, how far out are you now, 8-9 weeks? I think if I were you I would do as your title sais, no backing down. I would make a drop in something by the week and add some cardio and back off slightly on lifting volume, just slightly. You have to make up your mind, do you want to come in condition or do you want to lack it, and then when the show is over "next year I will get my conditioning better" cause ive done that at every year, even though I come in better each time, I want my best now. Dont make that mistake! At this point you may deplete yourself but with drastic changes and a lot more cardio for 4-5 weeks I dont think will harm you as much as the over trainers may think. I have seen guys drop massive weight in 18 weeks of diets and still look as full and hard and just as big and be fat as bears before starting and then fill out in time. I would go balls out now and fill out the last 2 weeks slowly. Anybody else agree?

Yeah 9 weeks out now, and I wholeheartedly agree with you about going balls out and trying to get as shredded as possible. I am going to be one of the smallest guys on stage probably so I better have amazing conditioning if I want a shot at doing well. I dropped 10g carbs a few days ago, so I'm thinking I'll drop another 10g every 2 weeks...does that sound good? Also, I'm getting an additional 1500 kcal deficit for cardio per week, any recommendations for that?

I dont know about your backside but you arent too bad off from the front.

There are pics of my back from yesterday if you scroll up a bit.

Comments above

[Frankdaddy]

Back lacks detail like most, holding more fat it appears. Yea I dont know what kind of cardio or how much though. I can make 1500 cals burned in a days time if I wanted, doesnt mean its going to help me overall every week, at your weight its a good amount though. Just depends on what type your doing, how many days a week already..I cant just suggest shoot for 2000 cals burned lol.

[Incubusfan18]

Back lacks detail like most, holding more fat it appears. Yea I dont know what kind of cardio or how much though. I can make 1500 cals burned in a days time if I wanted, doesnt mean its going to help me overall every week, at your weight its a good amount though. Just depends on what type your doing, how many days a week already..I cant just suggest shoot for 2000 cals burned lol.

Yeah my back definitely looks a lot more defined in person, my gf says it looks leaner and bigger than the pictures make it appear, but I definitely agree that I'm holding fat there...especially in my lower back.

Haha fair enough on the cardio. I always do stationary bike, 300 calories 5 days a week after lifting, and it's usually a hybrid of MISS and HIIT.

[Incubusfan18]

Stats:

20 years old
5'8"
148 lbs.

Training:

Monday: Upper Body Power
Tuesday: Lower Body Power
Wednesday: Off
Thursday: Back & Shoulders Hypertrophy
Friday: Lower Hypertrophy
Saturday: Chest & Arms Hypertrophy
Sunday: Off

It has been four weeks since I have been using PHAT so I'm going to switch up the power exercises as per Layne's recommendation. I'm leaning towards flat dumbbell presses, supported t bar rows, and conventional deadlifts.

Nutrition:

40/180/200 Sunday-Friday
35/390/150 Saturday

Cardio:

1500 kcals/week consisting of a combination of MISS and HIIT on the stationary bike. I may increase this depending on how I look/feel.

Supplements:

Universal Ultra Whey Pro
AllMax Isoflex
AllMax Aminocore
AllMax Green Tea Extract
AllMax Caffeine Pills
ON Fish Oil

I ran out of creatine, a multi, and a PWO supplement. I may stock up on these but money is tight at the moment.

LET'S DO THIS!

[Bnizzle163]

Looking good dude. Definitely see the progress over these last three weeks.

[Incubusfan18]

Looking good dude. Definitely see the progress over these last three weeks.

I love and always will love to train but the cardio and dieting for a sustained period of time can definitely get you down. The improvements from week to week, seeing new striations and vascularity in the gym, and the comments from other people among other things keep my motivating climbing and make the sacrifices worth it.

[llopezxx]

Great vacuum pose, but I gotta agree with what frankdaddy said. Your making good progress though, and i like your outlook on the dieting. Always look towards the positive and it'll be a breeze. Time for no backing down and to get shredded!

Oh and you should get a scale for consistent weigh ins lol.

[Incubusfan18]

As stated above, I am using new power exercises now (see below) so I am easing into the weights and making sure my form is perfect.

Upper Body Power

Flat DB Bench

30 x 15
50 x 10
4 x 60 x 5

I kept it light here, trying to keep the dumbbells over my chest with a slight tuck in my elbows throughout a full ROM.

Incline DB Flyes

30 x 10
40 x 10
50 x 8
50 x 7

Supported T Bar Rows

45 x 15
70 x 10
90 x 5
2 x 100 x 5
105 x 5

Going nowhere close to failure here, just making sure I squeeze at the top and control the negative.

EZ Bar Reverse Grip Pulldowns

10 x 10
12 x 8
12 x 7

I'm not sure what the weights are here, just going by the numbers on the stack.

Medium Grip Upright Rows

45 x 15
65 x 12
75 x 10
75 x 8 -> 45 x 10

I got the idea to do hypertrophy shoulder work on upper body power day from Layne's video and so far, I really like it.

Strict DB Hammer Curls superset Olympic Bar Behind-The-Head "Skullcrushers"

4 x 30 x 8 -> 4 x 65 x 7

Cardio: 265 calories of HIIT on the stationary bike (90 seconds on level 8 followed by 30 seconds all-out on level 12). I meant to get 300 calories but the dining hall was closing so I had to go. I'll make it up tomorrow for sure.

[Incubusfan18]

Great vacuum pose, but I gotta agree with what frankdaddy said. Your making good progress though, and i like your outlook on the dieting. Always look towards the positive and it'll be a breeze. Time for no backing down and to get shredded!

Oh and you should get a scale for consistent weigh ins lol.

Thanks, yeah it's easy for me to perform the vacuum and it allows me to really make my lats and serratus pop more than in the standard ab and thigh. No backing down!

Haha already ordered on amazon!

[Bnizzle163]

Hahah just noticed the trix box in the background. God, I love trix. Repped.

[Incubusfan18]

Hahah just noticed the trix box in the background. God, I love trix. Repped.

Hahaha gotta love the cereal right? I can always put down a big bowl a cereal, but I've stopped using cereal as a carb source simply because by the time I eat a bowl that satisfies me, I'll have eaten half my carb intake for the day! Lucky Charms in particular are my kryptonite. Carb sources I've been using consistently now include weight watchers whole wheat bread (16g CHO in 2 slices), oats, cream of wheat, instant white rice, light popcorn, rice cakes, ben & jerry's froyo, english muffins, and everything bagels (65g CHO per bagel, but it's one of my favorite foods so I eat one or two a week with some light butter when I really have bad cravings). Protein sources are pretty basic: egg whites, grilled chicken, and whey. The little fats I have left over after the trace calories from protein and carb sources usually come from peanut butter, fish oil, and light butter.

[Incubusfan18]

This is a bit off topic, but since I just started a new log I want to post a lot to give as much information about me as possible in regards to bodybuilding. Back has always been my favorite bodypart to train, partly because it developed faster than my other bodyparts, but mostly because I love the complexity of the back muscles; therefore, I've found it interesting learning how to hit the back from different angles and finding out what works for me. I just came across this article written by Dorian Yates, who arguably possessed the greatest back of all time, and his no BS, logical way of training really intrigues me.

MY GUIDE TO BUILDING A BETTER BACK BY DORIAN YATES

Why Don’t We See More Great Backs?

Since Ronnie retired, I haven’t seen many backs in pro bodybuilding that I considered exceptional. I suppose this Joel Stubbs bloke from the Bahamas would qualify, but it’s hard to give him full credit since he doesn’t have a very complete physique overall (light in the legs). If you ask most bodybuilders why they don’t have great backs, they will often give the excuse that only a handful of guys with very lucky genetics are capable of building backs like me or Ronnie. I can’t speak for Ronnie, but I don’t think there was anything very special about my genetics in that area. It’s true that my lats do insert very low, but I see plenty of pros with similar attachments.

The real reason is that most bodybuilders fail to grasp the function of the back and never train it properly. The basic function of the lats, without getting overly technical, is to bring the arms down from an overhead position and also to bring the arms back when they are in front of the body. In other words, a pulling down movement as well as pulling back as in any type of row. To work the lats completely, the lower back must be arched, not rounded.

Another common limiting factor toward building the lats is that it’s quite easy to let the biceps or momentum do the actual work rather than the lats, and as you should know, the biceps are much smaller and weaker than the lats. Therefore, if your biceps give out first, your lats never receive sufficient stimulation needed to spark growth.

The final and perhaps most significant issue working against back development is the simple and painfully obvious fact that the whole muscle group is in back of you, and you can’t see it. Not only does the adage ‘out of sight, out of mind’ prove sadly appropriate in this case, but not being able to see the lats while you work them also makes it much more difficult to establish a strong mind-muscle connection with them, as opposed to ‘mirror muscles’ like the chest and arms.

I can say from the experience of having coached many bodybuilders over the years that the back is the one area where establishing this connection is the most critical. Just about anybody can stimulate the chest to grow with bench presses, the biceps with curls, or the quads with squats— but stimulating the lats whilst performing pulldowns or rows is not quite so simple. The very first thing I do when taking a bodybuilder through a back workout is to cut the weight they are using— often by half— and have him or her focus intensely on feeling the lats contract as they pull, hold the peak contraction point and squeeze the lats as hard as possible, and feel them stretch as they lower the resistance. I can’t tell you how many of them have been stunned to actually feel their lats working for the very first time once they do this.

The Myth of Wide-grip Superiority

One myth that has held back the development of lats the world over is the persistent idea that using a wide grip on chins and pulldowns is the best way to build wider lats. This myth probably has its origins in the fact that using a wide grip on any vertical pulling motion will selectively recruit the smaller upper back muscles like the teres major and minor, the upper portion of the traps, and the rhomboids.

When a bodybuilder feels these smaller muscle groups at the top of the back working, he often assumes he is making his lats wider. But the lats actually originate under the armpits and insert near the waist. Using a wide grip does not provide anywhere near a full range of motion for them. A narrower grip, in contrast, allows both a better stretch and a more complete contraction. If you don’t believe me, pantomime two types of pulldowns right now as you read this, doing your best to contract the lats as hard as possible: a wide-grip pulldown and a narrow, underhand grip. I guarantee you that you will feel a more powerful contraction of the lats with the narrow underhand grip.

In my early career, I experimented with various types of grips, and I found that using a closer grip with the hands either parallel (facing each other) or fully supinated (underhand) actually provided the best contraction and most complete range of motion for the lats. Throughout my Mr. Olympia reign, I never did a single set of wide-grip chins or lat pulldowns. My two choices for vertical pulling were always a narrow underhand grip for lat pulldowns, which I would go up to 400 pounds on, and the Hammer Strength Iso-lateral pulldown machine.

A final reason to consider using a narrow grip beyond the issue of range of motion is the fact that it puts the biceps in a stronger position. Since the biceps are far smaller and weaker than the lats, putting them in a position where they are guaranteed to fail before the lats are properly stimulated, as in any wide-grip vertical pull, will cause you to shortchange your potential growth.

Putting Together the Ideal Back Workout

The back is a very large and complex group of muscles, but the ideal back training routine needn’t be overly long or complicated. Here’s what I recommend based on what I found to work best over my competitive career.

1. Nautilus pullovers (if available)
Arthur Jones capitalized on the concept of pre-exhausting back in the early ’70s when he designed the first Nautilus pullover machine, which he referred to as “The Upper Body Squat.” The beauty of this piece of equipment is that it allows the lats to be worked directly without having to go through the ‘weak link in the chain’ represented by the biceps. The lats can be worked through 180 degrees of motion to failure, and that failure is not limited in any way by the biceps, as they are not involved.

I know that not every gym has one of these machines, but I have had one at Temple Gym for over 20 years and consider it to be priceless in the quest for a bigger back. Another advantage to doing pullovers first is that you pre-exhaust the lats. It will take less weight in the subsequent rowing and pulldown movements to thoroughly fatigue the lats, and they will reach that fatigue without being limited so much by the biceps.

You can use a dumbbell for pullovers if you don’t have access to a machine, but the range of motion is shorter and it’s difficult to keep the triceps out of the motion. A straight-arm cable pullover is another option, but it’s tough to use enough resistance and stay on the floor at the same time.

2. A Close-grip Pulldown Movement
As I said before, I preferred a close-grip cable pulldown, usually with an underhand grip. This provides the most complete range of motion for the lats and also puts the biceps in the strongest pulling position possible.

3. Barbell or Dumbbell Rows
The two most productive vertical pulling movements I found were barbell rows and one-arm dumbbell rows. I often would alternate between the two from workout to workout. With barbell rows, I discovered through experimentation that an underhand grip put the biceps in a stronger position. I also found that standing at roughly a 70° angle and pulling into the waist worked the lats more completely than the ‘old-school’ style of bending over with the torso parallel to the ground and pulling into the chest, which worked more of the upper back muscles, as opposed to the actual lats.

4. Cable or Hammer Strength Seated Row
I would also do some type of horizontal rowing movement, either the Hammer Strength seated row you’ve probably seen the famous black and white shots of me doing, or seated cable rows. The machine is a perfect choice for anyone who has lower back problems that could be aggravated by barbell rows. However, if you keep your back arched instead of rounded, that shouldn’t be an issue. I usually did both a free weight row as well as either a seated machine or cable row in my routines.

5. Deadlifts
The order of the aforementioned exercises isn’t overly important, but I do feel that doing deadlifts last as I always did is the best way to include them in your back routine. Very heavy deadlifts can put a great deal of stress on the spine as well as other areas. Had I performed deadlifts first, it would have required something like 600 or maybe even 700 pounds for me to reach failure with 6-8 reps. Instead, I did them last and needed only 405-495 pounds at most to get the job done. Also, I never did my reps from the floor up, but from the mid-shin. The initial pull off the floor is mainly using the legs and glutes, which I didn’t care to train on back day.

A Final Word on Momentum

If there is one culprit to blame for lack of back development in bodybuilders, it’s the use of momentum to move the weight, rather than pure lat power. One must keep in mind that there are three types of strength: positive (lifting the weight), static (the peak contraction at the top of the rep where the muscle is fully contracted), and negative (lowering).

Your strength is actually the least in the positive and the greatest in the negative. In other words, if you can lift 200 pounds, you can probably hold 250 pounds in the peak contraction and can lower about 300 pounds in the negative. That’s just a very rough example. Most bodybuilders really only perform the positive portion of the rep and completely miss out on the other two possible areas.

A quick test to see if this describes you is to see if you can stop each rep at the peak contraction and pause to fully contract the lats, then lower it slowly under control for a good stretch. If you can’t, you’re using too much weight and would actually benefit greatly by reducing the resistance. Studies have shown that the negative portion of the rep causes more muscle damage and stimulates greater gains in strength than the lifting itself.

Summary: A Great Back Can Be Yours

So, armed with all this knowledge— can you now go forth and build a back like mine or Ronnie Coleman’s? I can’t say for certain that you can, but if you go about your back training in the proper manner, you at least stand a fighting chance. Having the confidence that you can improve the development of your back, along with the knowledge of how to train it properly, will mean that whatever your back looks like at the present moment, in time you can indeed make it wider, thicker, and more impressive.

Here's a video of Dorian training Evan Centopani, my favorite IFBB pro, applying all those techniques.


As much as I love my wide grip chins, I think I'm gonna ditch them for awhile and stick to these movements on my hypertrophy back & shoulders day. I'm gonna be deadlifting on lower body power day so I don't think I should deadlift after the back hypertrophy work, but what do you guys think about higher rep rackpulls?

[Incubusfan18]

Just like my workout yesterday, today was kind of a deload because I'm using a new power movement.

Lower Body Power

Deadlifts

95 x 10
135 x 10
185 x 5
3 x 225 x 5

All reps smooth and explosive, felt really good to deadlift again. It's been since September if I remember correctly, and to give you guys an idea of what I can pull, my all time PR is 275 for 10. However, I definitely need to work on keep my butt down. Also, I deadlifted barefoot today for the first time...feels good man.

ATG Smith Machine Squats

135 x 10
3 x 185 x 8

I don't have a hack squat at my college gym, so I tried to make this motion mimic a hack squat: deep reps, toes well in front of the bar, and a reasonably close stance.

Donkey Calf Raise Station

2 PPS x 15
5 x 3 PPS x 10

Lying Leg Curls

70 x 10
90 x 10
2 x 90 x 8

Nice smooth reps here with a hold/squeeze at the top.

Leg Extensions

90 x 15
4 x 110 x 10

Cardio: 300 calories of HIIT on the stationary bike. I did a few minutes of warmup, followed by 8 30/30 intervals (30 seconds on level 8 followed by 30 seconds all-out on level 12), and then cruised until I hit 300 calories.

[llopezxx]

Nice read about Dorian. And good workout, keep going strong.

[Incubusfan18]

Nice read about Dorian. And good workout, keep going strong.

Thanks brother, I find myself now thinking about offseason diet and training (i.e., things I could have done better, pitfalls I've made, improvements I'd like to make) but I have another 8.5 weeks so it's gonna be awhile until I can actually implement those ideas. The toughest part right now is diet by far. I have 19 meals a week from my dining hall, which has pretty damn good food, so it's just tough seeing all the food I can't eat in front of me everyday, and it doesn't help when my friends tease me and sh*t. They mean well but it definitely gets old.

To give a little insight into my diet, I eat breakfast everyday around 9 AM. I get scrambled egg whites made fresh to order, which is almost always 250-260g in weight. Usually I'll have two slices of low carb toast with that meal, but sometimes I'll have an everything bagel. For lunch I always get three pieces of grilled chicken from the deli, all of which are almost always ~2.7 ounces each. I'll cut those up, with a little salt and pepper, and again have either two slices of low carb toast or an english muffin, and I'll put 3/4 ounces of Smucker's pb on that. Those are the constants in my diet, as I'm still trying to figure out what carb sources fill me up the most, give me the best performance in the gym, and have optimal trace calories (low fat, high protein).

Last night I found out about Carbquik, so I'm pretty stoked about that. Gonna try to find a good waffle recipe and make low carb waffles with WF pancake syrup. I also found these low carb tortillas and pitas by Toufayan Bakeries that look awesome, a 9" tortilla has 3/15/13 macros. Once I get those, I'm gonna buy fat free cheese and make some pizzas and quesadillas that I'm hoping will help with satiety.

As for today, it's a complete off day, so no cardio or weights. Still trying to hit 40/180/200 though, I really don't want to lose muscle at this point because I'm already so light and lacking thickness.

[Incubusfan18]

I was browsing through Layne's log and came across this video. Awesome idea! I'm order these 9" tortillas with 3/15/13 macros, so topped with fat free cheese, low calorie tomato sauce, and lean meat, they should really satisfy my cravings.

[Bnizzle163]

I was browsing through Layne's log and came across this video. Awesome idea! I'm order these 9" tortillas with 3/15/13 macros, so topped with fat free cheese, low calorie tomato sauce, and lean meat, they should really satisfy my cravings.

I was putting down a lot of those pizzas on flat outs w/ walden farms bbq, chicken, turkey pepperoni and ff mozz. MMm-mm tasty!

[Incubusfan18]

I was putting down a lot of those pizzas on flat outs w/ walden farms bbq, chicken, turkey pepperoni and ff mozz. MMm-mm tasty!

Sounds ridiculously delicious compared to what I've been eating lately...or maybe it's just that I haven't had my favorite food (just plain cheese pizza) in so long. How's the WF BBQ btw? I have the impression that everything besides the pancake syrup sucks just from reading around here, but I definitely trust your taste in food based on your food pron haha.

[RHK89]

Sick vacuum pose. Definitely mirin' and sub'd.