Low GI after W/O

[CENTAUR]

Derek u recommend taking in a low GI meal post w/o. But every where esle i have read states that a meal that leads to insulin spike should be taken right after ur w/o. U have said that u noticed no difference when using a low GI meal and a high GI meal except in a high GI meal people also tend 2 gain fat when using substances like dextrose.

So i was wondering instead of oats or brown rice, wouldn't fruits like apples, cherries or bananas have the same effect like oats or brown rice?

[young_squatter]

Derek u recommend taking in a low GI meal post w/o. But every where esle i have read states that a meal that leads to insulin spike should be taken right after ur w/o. U have said that u noticed no difference when using a low GI meal and a high GI meal except in a high GI meal people also tend 2 gain fat when using substances like dextrose.

So i was wondering instead of oats or brown rice, wouldn't fruits like apples, cherries or bananas have the same effect like oats or brown rice?

Actually no, fruit does little to nothing in restoring muscle glycogen. So oats would be the way to go.

[Joshua_H]

Actually no, fruit does little to nothing in restoring muscle glycogen. So oats would be the way to go.

why is this? im curious.

[halodrol]

Actually no, fruit does little to nothing in restoring muscle glycogen. So oats would be the way to go.

ur wrong

for the guy above, fruits that are high in fructose are not ideal, cause they tend to go to ur liver

but bananas do have high level of sucrose, so its ok to use bananas

[young_squatter]

ur wrong

for the guy above, fruits that are high in fructose are not ideal, cause they tend to go to ur liver

but bananas do have high level of sucrose, so its ok to use bananas

Im pretty sure im not, you just said yourself the carbs fructose go to the liver. Fruit mainly restores liver glycogen not muscle.

[ChokeOnStrength]

Also, fructose has some what of no affect at helping, in some studies it's even said that fructose has negative affects at the restoration and repairation of muscle cells through insulin spikes. Oats are definately the way to go. Just ground them up into dust like I do in a blender and put em in your shake, goes down easy like a protein shake.

[image101]

Im pretty sure im not, you just said yourself the carbs fructose go to the liver. Fruit mainly restores liver glycogen not muscle.

You're correct in the sense that fructose is inefficient at restoring muscle glycogen stores, but is perfect for repleninishing liver glycogen. However, fruits also contain an appreciable amount of glucose, which IS great for muscle glycogen resynthesis.
IMO, it is foolish to not include at least a little fructose in your PWO meal, since liver glycogen stores are also depleted (albeit not as drastically as intramuscular stores). Sticking to mainly oats, with a serving of fruit is probably ideal in this situation.

[young_squatter]

You're correct in the sense that fructose is inefficient at restoring muscle glycogen stores, but is perfect for repleninishing liver glycogen. However, fruits also contain an appreciable amount of glucose, which IS great for muscle glycogen resynthesis.
IMO, it is foolish to not include at least a little fructose in your PWO meal, since liver glycogen stores are also depleted (albeit not as drastically as intramuscular stores). Sticking to mainly oats, with a serving of fruit is probably ideal in this situation.

I never said a little was a bad idea, something like oats/bannana would be good.

[halodrol]

I never said a little was a bad idea, something like oats/bannana would be good.

hehe

actually i dont agree with derek on taking low carbs pwo at all

his logic is that pre workout meal gives u enough carbs for ur workout, its flawed

say u eat like 100g of carbs from oats 2 hrs before workout

while working out for 1 hr like a madman, u burn say 300cals/75g carbs

guess what? oats are slow digesting, meaning u run the risk of not having enough carbs digested to cover ur workout

so PWO, ur carbs are not replenished....and u go take ur protein shake...glucogenisis occurs, ur protein shake is wasted and converted to carbs straightaway...catabolism of muscle continues..then u go home and finally take ur PWO meal, ur low gi which takes ass long to get digested...so catabolism continues for like 3-4 hours until ur body says ok, i am replenished with carbs and can start using protien for building muscle, by then u have missed out on the 4-6 hrs window..

bottom line is dont skimp on pwo, i think u need fast acting sugar unlike derek says

[young_squatter]

hehe

actually i dont agree with derek on taking low carbs pwo at all

his logic is that pre workout meal gives u enough carbs for ur workout, its flawed

say u eat like 100g of carbs from oats 2 hrs before workout

while working out for 1 hr like a madman, u burn say 300cals/75g carbs

guess what? oats are slow digesting, meaning u run the risk of not having enough carbs digested to cover ur workout

so PWO, ur carbs are not replenished....and u go take ur protein shake...glucogenisis occurs, ur protein shake is wasted and converted to carbs straightaway...catabolism of muscle continues..then u go home and finally take ur PWO meal, ur low gi which takes ass long to get digested...so catabolism continues for like 3-4 hours until ur body says ok, i am replenished with carbs and can start using protien for building muscle, by then u have missed out on the 4-6 hrs window..

bottom line is dont skimp on pwo, i think u need fast acting sugar unlike derek says

Got to disagree, derek recommends oats 1-1.5 hours pre workout, they should be digested and be able to fuel your workout perfectly fine. He also recommends sipping Xtend+WPI during workouts to keep you anabolic so therefore you wont be in a catabolic state. Although high gi replenish glycogen stores faster then low GI post workout, glyogen stores dont need to be replenished fast for a bodybuilder, but if your an athlete then thats a different story.

But to each their own.

[halodrol]

Got to disagree, derek recommends oats 1-1.5 hours pre workout, they should be digested and be able to fuel your workout perfectly fine. He also recommends sipping Xtend+WPI during workouts to keep you anabolic so therefore you wont be in a catabolic state. Although high gi replenish glycogen stores faster then low GI post workout, glyogen stores dont need to be replenished fast for a bodybuilder, but if your an athlete then thats a different story.

But to each their own.

oats take more than 1-1.5hrs to be fully digested...and if ur stomache has food in it, it will take even longer. besides, 100g carbs worth of oats is 5 servings, thats will make u feel full like a pig

yes sipping protien during workout will prevent catabolism..but when ur workout ends and ur whey passes out in 1 hr , ur back to catablosim

taking low gi carbs, which takes 2-3 hrs to digest definately dont help stop that catabolism, and take adavantage of the 4-6hr anabolic window

yes i agree, to each his own. thats bodybuilding, u decide whats good for u

[Scivation]

You don't need carbs AT ALL around your workout when trying to drop bodyfat and gain lean mass. This is true if you are a bodybuilder and NOT a performance athlete.

Just have your Xtend/Substance Pre and During training then a regular meal 45 minutes after that.

[halodrol]

u need to eat carbs before u workout so u have the energy to lift....urgh nvm..think what u want

i am going to eat some food and watch some tv

[Scivation]

u need to eat carbs before u workout so u have the energy to lift....urgh nvm..think what u want

i am going to eat some food and watch some tv

Energy for what? It is not the preworkout meal that gives you energy for training, it is the many meals before that meal. Your body is not that accute.

I encourage you to sign up for a copy of Chuck's book when it is available. Here is a excerpt:

On the Cut Diet with your pre, during and post-workout Xtend
and Substance WPI cocktail, you do not need a pre workout shake or a
special pre-workout meal other than the recommended handful of capsules
that provide antioxidants, stimulants, nootropics, etc. that you will
find in our recommended Cut Diet supplement plan. You simply need to
train 60-90 minutes after one of your scheduled meals. What if you train
first thing in the morning? Simply start sipping your Xtend and Substance
WPI cocktail 15 minutes prior to your workout and continue sipping
throughout your weight training and cardio. This is all you need!

If you do not have Xtend, you can sip on Whey Protein Isolate
during training and then consume one to two scoops (40 grams) of Whey
Protein Isolate immediately post workout. Eat your next scheduled meal
30-45 minutes after your workout.

[Scivation]

Here is one more, and you can also catch Chuck presenting at the ISSN Conference in Las Vegas next weekend.


Our opinion may upset people but here it is. We do not recommend
a postworkout (PWO) shake when the activity is for physique
purposes. We would rather provide aminos (Branch Chain Amino Acids
(BCAA) and Whey Protein Isolate (WPI)) during the workout to help
reduce muscle tissue catabolism and provide energy. If you do not have
BCAAs and WPI during your workout/cardio training, then we recommend
a WPI shake (protein only with no carbohydrates) PWO to get
the body into an anabolic state. When you hop off that cardio machine
postworkout, get home and eat your next meal around 30-45 minutes following your training session.

If you are a performance athlete (hockey, tennis, soccer, basketball,
etc), then a PWO shake with carbohydrates and protein would be
ideal to replenish glycogen stores and get the body recovered for the next
days training or event. This is irrelevant because a performance athlete
would not be on a Cut Diet. The goal for this athlete is performance and
the goal of the Cut Diet is physique. Therefore, a performance athlete
may even get Carbohydrates during their workout depending on the intensity.
Many people we do diets for are looking to reduce fat. Therefore,
maintaining as much muscle tissue as possible in a lowered caloric state is
our goal. In the Cut Diet, we control insulin to enhance fat loss and even
our carbohydrate meal keeps insulin under control. Thus, the last thing
we want on this diet is to spike insulin!

[gaurivaud]

yep, ok, but I believed that insulin spike was necessary to reduced cortisol level after the training session.

[Scivation]

yep, ok, but I believed that insulin spike was necessary to reduced cortisol level after the training session.

That's what the BCAA and whey are for.

[Beast]

Energy for what? It is not the preworkout meal that gives you energy for training, it is the many meals before that meal. Your body is not that accute.

And BINGO was his name-o.

[Robboe]

I eat tuna mayo on a bagel with spinach after training and have done for many moons.

[halodrol]

by pre workout meal, i mean before ur workout u need to eat a meal. meaning dont train on an empty stomache thats all..if u got carbs in you you can go lift

i'll say again...after workout your body needs carbs, and by drinking only protein shake PWO hoping it will prevent catabolism blah blah.. ur wasting your shake, as your body just converts it to carbs and continues its catabolism right after.....and then you go eat ur pwo meal low in GI, thats just plain stupid cause it takes another few hours for your body to digest that low gi stuff and meanwhile its starving for food in the post workout window of 6 hours

tell you what, ask your own guy Layne about it, he drinks his in workout shake with carbs too, here's his cutting meal plan on this site

'Meal 6: (in workout shake) 27g protein, 45g carbs, 1g fat'

ask him to explain the science to you..geesh

and yes derek has a great physique..but that doesnt mean whatever he says is right....its about what works better

[Beantown2004]

i would agree that not everything derek or anyone says is right...on the other hand it is hard to argue that his approach doesnt work "better" as you said...his physique speaks for his approaches on diet and training

[ChuckRD]

by pre workout meal, i mean before ur workout u need to eat a meal. meaning dont train on an empty stomache thats all..if u got carbs in you you can go lift

i'll say again...after workout your body needs carbs, and by drinking only protein shake PWO hoping it will prevent catabolism blah blah.. ur wasting your shake, as your body just converts it to carbs and continues its catabolism right after.....and then you go eat ur pwo meal low in GI, thats just plain stupid cause it takes another few hours for your body to digest that low gi stuff and meanwhile its starving for food in the post workout window of 6 hours

tell you what, ask your own guy Layne about it, he drinks his in workout shake with carbs too, here's his cutting meal plan on this site

'Meal 6: (in workout shake) 27g protein, 45g carbs, 1g fat'

ask him to explain the science to you..geesh

and yes derek has a great physique..but that doesnt mean whatever he says is right....its about what works better

Are we talking Performance here or getting on stage burning body fat and building lean tissue?

[Beast]

Are we talking Performance here or getting on stage burning body fat and building lean tissue?

He is talking bodybuilding-wise.

Remember guys that a lot of the studies people use to create their theories for weight training post workout nutrition are studies done on endurance athletes. 2+ hours of endurance training burns a hell of a lot my glycogen than 60 minutes of weight training.

Yes taking dextrose will be effective, but I do not think it is optimal.

I would much rather eat some delicious oats than drink dextrose anyways

[young_squatter]

He is talking bodybuilding-wise.

Remember guys that a lot of the studies people use to create their theories for weight training post workout nutrition are studies done on endurance athletes. 2+ hours of endurance training burns a hell of a lot my glycogen than 60 minutes of weight training.

Yes taking dextrose will be effective, but I do not think it is optimal.

I would much rather eat some delicious oats than drink dextrose anyways

Must agree, I like to eat my carbs not drink them.

[ChuckRD]

The reason I ask performance vs body recomp is I have a different theory on this. I am going to say that carbs pre and post is wrong, as you mentioned, Layne does his dieting this way and looked FANTASTIC on stage, I just think it takes longer to lose bodyfat when providing the body with carbs to "lift weights and do LI cardio". I also am not a big fan of cutting cals to low. I would rather feed the body than starve it. It is noted that if you provide the body with BCAAs/Glutamine/WPI DURING the workout, the body can stay in an anticatabolic state and your body will oxidize fats and BCAAs as energy not the carbs you fed it. I also believe in keeping the body akaline and we know carbs and proteins are on the acidic side. JMO and my methodology that I have been using for the last 10 years with "competition" athletes. My performance athlete, you better damn beleive they get carbs pre, during and Pwo because they need to perform at a top level the next day.

[Scivation]

And from a personal perspective, I have MORE energy on the Cut Diet than I ever had on my old pre-workout carb fiesta.

Although I miss Cap'n Crunch post workout.

[Beast]

And from a personal perspective, I have MORE energy on the Cut Diet than I ever had on my old pre-workout carb fiesta.

Although I miss Cap'n Crunch post workout.

After my competition in 2004 I was eating Smores cereal or Count Chocula post workout for a couple weeks... I miss The Count.

[Scivation]

After my competition in 2004 I was eating Smores cereal or Count Chocula post workout for a couple weeks... I miss The Count.

I'd give my wife's left breast for Waffle Crisp right now.

[CENTAUR]

I'd give my wife's left breast for Waffle Crisp right now.

um.... i'll take u up on tat offer.lol.

So can i have both if i i give u 2+ bags of waffle crisp.lol

[Scivation]

um.... i'll take u up on tat offer.lol.

So can i have both if i i give u 2+ bags of waffle crisp.lol

Being that we just had a child and she is breastfeeding now, can I use her first for some milk on my Waffle Crisp?