Serious Discussion On HIT/Heavy Duty/Abbreviated Training

[Justin-27]

Not neccesserily, it was simply meant to demonstrate the structure of the workout, lets use quads for an example, you could use 3 exercises, squats, leg press, leg extensions, the workout may look something like this,

- 3x3 Squats
- 2x5 Squats
- 2x8 Leg Press
- 2x12 Leg Press
- 2x20 Leg Extensions
- 1x40 Leg Extensions

Interesting. And what sort of split would you recommend with that type of training?

[Orlando1234977]

Hey Kelei, have you considered starting up a posted journal? (Or do you have one?)

[Kelei]

Interesting. And what sort of split would you recommend with that type of training?

A split that trains each bodypart around twice per week, perhaps something like,

D1 - Chest, Shoulders, Triceps
D2 - Back, Biceps, Forearms
D3 - Quads, Hamstrings, Calves
D4 - Chest, Shoulders, Triceps
D5 - Back, Biceps, Forearms
D6 - Quads, Hamstrings, Calves
D7 - Rest

You could use this split for 3 weeks and then allow a 1 week deload.

For those who have a tough time recovering they could train only 4 days per week, perhaps something like,

D1 - Upper
D2 - Lower
D3 - Rest
D4 - Upper
D5 - Lower
D6 - Rest
D7 - Rest

There are many different ways to split a routine, but in general I believe that each muscle should be trained with a minimum frequency of around twice per 7 days.

[Kelei]

Hey Kelei, have you considered starting up a posted journal? (Or do you have one?)

What on earth is that?

[Orlando1234977]

What on earth is that?

haha, right here... http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=66

Post up what you're doing. I haven't had a desire to start one yet, but your training would interest many I'm sure..

[Kelei]

haha, right here... http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=66

Post up what you're doing. I haven't had a desire to start one yet, but your training would interest many I'm sure..

Yeah I can already picture it now, 500 PMs per day from the overtraining trolls and HIT jedis trying to save me from the dark side.

[Justin-27]

A split that trains each bodypart around twice per week, perhaps something like,

D1 - Chest, Shoulders, Triceps
D2 - Back, Biceps, Forearms
D3 - Quads, Hamstrings, Calves
D4 - Chest, Shoulders, Triceps
D5 - Back, Biceps, Forearms
D6 - Quads, Hamstrings, Calves
D7 - Rest

You could use this split for 3 weeks and then allow a 1 week deload.

For those who have a tough time recovering they could train only 4 days per week, perhaps something like,

D1 - Upper
D2 - Lower
D3 - Rest
D4 - Upper
D5 - Lower
D6 - Rest
D7 - Rest

There are many different ways to split a routine, but in general I believe that each muscle should be trained with a minimum frequency of around twice per 7 days.

Gotcha, thanks. So those 10 sets would=the total volume for each bodypart per workout? I assume since you train twice a week, you might do Front squats on leg day 1, then back squats on leg day 2? Same set/rep scheme?

[Kelei]

Gotcha, thanks. So those 10 sets would=the total volume for each bodypart per workout? I assume since you train twice a week, you might do Front squats on leg day 1, then back squats on leg day 2? Same set/rep scheme?

I'll give you an example of a chest workout I performed a few months back, I actually have it written down in a notebook,

- 3x5 Flat Bench Press, 3 minutes rest between sets
- 3x5 Incline Bench Press, 3 minutes rest between sets
- 2x8 Flat Bench Press, 2 minutes rest between sets
- 2x8 Incline Bench Press, 2 minutes rest between sets
- 2x12 Flat Dumbell Bench Press, 1 minure rest between sets
- 2x12 Incline Dumbell Bench Press, 1 minute rest between sets
- 2x20 Flat Dumbell Bench Press, 30 seconds rest between sets
- 2x20 Incline Dumbell Bench Press, 30 seconds rest between sets
- 1x35 Cable Flyes
- 1x35 Incline Flyes
- Pushups to failure

Yes yes I know, probably way to much volume for a lot of people but you can still follow the basic structure of the workout.

Oh, there is one more thing I need to tell you guys, my routine changes all the time, in reality I don't really have a set routine, here are some I cycle through

- 3 day split performed twice per week
- 2 day split performed twice per week
- 6 day split performed once per week (With enough volume per session to overtrain the combined work tolerance of all the HIT lifters on the planet)
- Full body routine performed 15 days in a row, then rest for 5 days
- Full body routine performed on weekdays, Mon to Fri, then deload over the weekend

I also use many more routines, but there is one basic thing that all my programs include, a period of overtraining followed by a period of deloading, you could say that all my routines are based upon the dual factor theory.

[momofo]

What illustration?

The Olympic weightlifter example was my illustration or example as to why understanding that what occurs at peak tension explains the mutual usefulness of both TUT and TT models; it doesn't have to be an either/or prospect like some have treated it.

[all pro]

The Olympic weightlifter example was my illustration or example as to why understanding that what occurs at peak tension explains the mutual usefulness of both TUT and TT models; it doesn't have to be an either/or prospect like some have treated it.

You need both and by manipulating them you dictate the outcome, size, strength or a mix of both.

[N@tural1]

Hi asked coomo on another board:

Ok I am genuinly interested in your opinion. As you know I belive that

1/ Low volume taking sets to failure

AND

2/ Higher volume (muliple sets) NOT to failure but higher overall workload (tonnage)

can BOTH work for various individuals.

I am curious as to you why you feel that option 1 will be optimal for EVERYBODY and noone would benifit more from option 2?

His answer:

Blimey, Have i got to do this again? Ok IF option 1 works for me, it will work for you. Within parameters, we are all the same. If we were not these the science of medicine could not exist. HIT happens to be the most effective route to the aquisition of muscle, above normal levels. Not because i choose it to but because the laws of nature deem it so. As i ve previosly stated THE LAW OF OVERCOMPENSATION is the catalyst that is responsible for this change.

Re you second option, which equates to lots of work, performed easily.
my mate neil has got huge forearms(really) his wrist is 8 inches in diameter,his forearm muscles extend nearly to the wrist. His upper arms not so good however, probably 14/15inches and hes not lean. He is also a builder, he works long days,humping bricks etc. His arms have been the same size as when i first knew him in 1978. Nuff said

[Orlando1234977]

Yeah I can already picture it now, 500 PMs per day from the overtraining trolls and HIT jedis trying to save me from the dark side.

No way, from what I understand, it's a great way to escape the overtraining trolls and HIT jedis. Check out Hola Bola or Str8flexed, you see alot of 30, 40 + sets per bodypart, and moving heavy weight..

[patleb940]

The Olympic weightlifter example was my illustration or example as to why understanding that what occurs at peak tension explains the mutual usefulness of both TUT and TT models; it doesn't have to be an either/or prospect like some have treated it.

Ok thanks! I thought by illustration you meant picture or graph...

[momofo]

Ok thanks! I thought by illustration you meant picture or graph...

No problem, down here it's another term for example.

[Justin-27]

I'll give you an example of a chest workout I performed a few months back, I actually have it written down in a notebook,

- 3x5 Flat Bench Press, 3 minutes rest between sets
- 3x5 Incline Bench Press, 3 minutes rest between sets
- 2x8 Flat Bench Press, 2 minutes rest between sets
- 2x8 Incline Bench Press, 2 minutes rest between sets
- 2x12 Flat Dumbell Bench Press, 1 minure rest between sets
- 2x12 Incline Dumbell Bench Press, 1 minute rest between sets
- 2x20 Flat Dumbell Bench Press, 30 seconds rest between sets
- 2x20 Incline Dumbell Bench Press, 30 seconds rest between sets
- 1x35 Cable Flyes
- 1x35 Incline Flyes
- Pushups to failure

Yes yes I know, probably way to much volume for a lot of people but you can still follow the basic structure of the workout.

Oh, there is one more thing I need to tell you guys, my routine changes all the time, in reality I don't really have a set routine, here are some I cycle through

- 3 day split performed twice per week
- 2 day split performed twice per week
- 6 day split performed once per week (With enough volume per session to overtrain the combined work tolerance of all the HIT lifters on the planet)
- Full body routine performed 15 days in a row, then rest for 5 days
- Full body routine performed on weekdays, Mon to Fri, then deload over the weekend

I also use many more routines, but there is one basic thing that all my programs include, a period of overtraining followed by a period of deloading, you could say that all my routines are based upon the dual factor theory.

Nice variation there, thanks for posting.

- 6 day split performed once per week (With enough volume per session to overtrain the combined work tolerance of all the HIT lifters on the planet)

^ Lol at that.

[Squat-Man]

Flat Bench Press : Week1: %80 of 1 rep max 5*5 Tempo: 2-0-X Rest Between Sets: 5 minutes
Week2: %85 of 1 rep max 5*4 Tempo: 2-0-X Rest Between Sets: 5 minutes

Week3: %90 of 1 rep max 5*3 Tempo: 2-0-X Rest Between Sets: 5 minutes
Week4: %95 of 1 rep max 5*2 Tempo: 2-0-X Rest Between Sets: 5 minutes
Week5: %100 of 1 rep max 5*1 Tempo: 2-0-X Rest Between Sets: 5 minutes

I am using a 2-0-X rep tempo for flat bench presses, keeping reps for the sets between 1-5 and each week performing 5 working sets of flat benches . In this exercise I am aiming for strength and power . To reach my goals , along this tempo and rep numbers I am keeping the rest time between sets 5 minutes. It is taking 2 seconds for completing the eccentric phase of the reps. I am lowering bar to the chest fast but under control. When compared concentric phase fewer muscle fibers are recruited in the eccentric phase of the rep and especially when we are working with heavier weights dominantly fast twitch muscles will be recruited for lowering the weight. If I keep the eccentric phase phase of the reps longer like 4 seconds I can have greater results as miyofibriller hypertrophy especially while performing the sets around 5 reps at this exercise but as eccentric phase extends fast twitch muscles will be fatigued earlier . This can effect my concentric performance , gains as strength and power. Also must keep in the mind as you keep the eccentric phase longer you will reach failure in lower reps compared when we are performing eccentrics fast in the reps. I am not pausing the bar after I lowered it to the bottom and without waiting I am working to press the weight as fast as possible. Not pausing the weight at the bottom allows me using elastic energy and producing more power and force. During strength training the energy we are using comes firstly from ATP-PC system and keeping rest time for the sets 3 or more than 3 minutes will allow body fully replenish phos****en stores.

Incline Bench Press : Week1: %70 of 1 rep max 3*8 Tempo: 3-1-X Rest Between Sets: 90 seconds
Week2: %70 of 1 rep max 3*8 Tempo: 3-1-X Rest Between Sets: 90 seconds
Week3: %75 of 1 rep max 3*8 Tempo: 3-1-X Rest Between Sets: 90 seconds
Week4: %75 of 1 rep max 3*8 Tempo: 3-1-X Rest Between Sets: 90 seconds
Week5: %80 of 1 rep max 3*8 Tempo: 3-1-X Rest Between Sets: 90 seconds

When I am performing incline bench presses I am thinking like a bodybuilder.I am adjusting rep tempo, rep numbers for the sets , rest between sets and the loads for hypertrophy . I am keeping eccentrics longer in the reps.In eccentric phase fewer muscle fibers will be used than during the concentric contraction, this will increase the tension , provide more stress placed on each of the activated muscle fibers and that translates into a higher percentage of the muscle fiber being damaged. Pausing the bar at the bottom prevents me using elastic energy and this reduces the weight I am performing but it also increases tension . A rep tempo like this will help me to give muscle enough tension for growth . For hypertrophy I need to work with certain loads , give muscle enough tension and take care of TUT. Short rest periods between sets(1-2 minutes ) cause a greater release of anabolic hormones than longer rest periods that explains why I am keeping the rests between sets 90 seconds. I am working with a weight that is pushing me near failure at the sets .Except the last set I don't reach failure. Performing the sets with loads about %70 of 1 rep maxes have firstly metabolic and then neural effects on the body and keeping rest time between sets 1-2 minutes is a decent duration for getting enough metabolic recovery .

Decline Dumbbell Press: Week1:%60 of 1 rep max 2*10 Tempo: 3-1-X Rest Between Sets: 45 seconds
Week2: %60 of 1 rep max 2*10 Tempo: 3-1-X Rest Between Sets: 60 seconds
Week3: %65 of 1 rep max 2*10 Tempo: 3-1-X Rest Between Sets: 60 seconds
Week4: %65 of 1 rep max 2*10 Tempo: 3-1-X Rest Between Sets: 60 seconds
Week5: %70 of 1 rep max 2*10 Tempo: 3-1-X Rest Between Sets: 60 seconds

In decline dumbbell presses again I am thinking like a bodybuilder. I am reducing the rest times betwen sets ; keeping 60 seconds and increasing the rep numbers(10 reps).For the sets I am choosing a weight that pushes me near failure. Reducing the rest time between sets , performing moderate reps (10-12) for the sets and working with the weights that pushes me near failure will enhance the growth hormone released to the bloodstream.


Dumbbell flies: With a light weight 1*50 Tempo:1-0-X

Dumbbell flies are mainly for pump. With 50 reps set, blood will flow to the muscles.While helping removing of byproducts from the muscle this will also allow nutrients and the hormones released during the training flow to the muscles.

When I saw the subject I just wanted to add my 5 weeks cycled chest routine and show how I use variation in training.

[_XYDREX_]

Yeah I can already picture it now, 500 PMs per day from the overtraining trolls and HIT jedis trying to save me from the dark side.

500 usernames all from about 5 people.

on a sidenote, do you ever do 80% drop sets? meaning once you reach about 80% of the way to failure, drop the weight & again reach this pt & so on?

[Kelei]

500 usernames all from about 5 people.

on a sidenote, do you ever do 80% drop sets? meaning once you reach about 80% of the way to failure, drop the weight & again reach this pt & so on?

Not often, I almost never train to failure or even remotely close to failure, there really is no need, the sheer volume of work and cumalative fatigue get the job done.

[seanysuds88]

Not often, I almost never train to failure or even remotely close to failure, there really is no need, the sheer volume of work and cumalative fatigue get the job done.

I only train to failure when at extreamly low volume phases, when not really low i try to stay away from failure too... kelei i have enjoy most of your posts here along with all pro ect..... all good work!!!! and for the most part great info

[Blashy]

I am finally down to just two work outs a week, it took me 4 months to get there. What I mean is getting around the less is more concept has been difficult, especially when it is that much less.

Prio to adopting HiT style my typical work out was 3 full body work outs a week doing 1 exercise per body part (compounds for the most part) for 3 sets of 10. So it was 9 total sets a week per bodypart for 10 reps.

When I decided to give HiT an honest try 4 months ago, I used the same concept except I dropped 2 sets.

After the 1st month I felt burned out, my instincts and body kept saying to drop a work out but the concept of doing even less was simply too foreign.

What I did try is split my work out in two so I would do less but still work out 3 times a week, I did this after 2 months of HiT and I adopted Doggcrapp style rest pause sets. I still felt burned out, when it was work out day I just did not feel 100% rested.

Finally 30 days ago I switched to 2 full body work outs a week (9 exercises) and kept the Doggcrapp rest pause technique... I have never felt better, my work outs have been intense every time and my muscles continually feel full and stimulated.

[N@tural1]

kelei i have enjoy most of your posts here along with all pro ect..... all good work!!!! and for the most part great info

For the MOST? part!

I think kelei and all pro are awesome posters for the ALL part!

[N@tural1]

This is some funny stuff, Im sure you'll remember HIT-IT-HARD aka Gerry Hitman. Well not only has he managed to get himself banned here 4 times and banned at highintensity.net. He now in his latest mission has managed to have issues over at Dr. Dardens HIT website also!

http://hit-training-nutrition.mypunb....php?id=350736

^^ looks like he'll only have his own forum to post on soon with all 7 members (any of which could even be him lol)

[GuyJin]

And if you really want to see Gerald in all his "glory", you can check out his photobucket images--a walking statement of HIT if ever I saw one...great fat-loss, but where's the beef?

And he said that he was going to put on about 25 pounds of muscle this year over at Dardens' forum. Good luck, Gerald, good luck...

[N@tural1]

http://s278.photobucket.com/albums/kk84/gerryhitman/


Its amazing how he ends up in trouble on two different HIT sites!

[N@tural1]

Dam this guy is so funny-

http://hit-training-nutrition.mypunb....php?id=350757

As if we haven't figure out that HE wrote that LOL. I think gerry has bigger issues than any of us had ever imagined.

Does this guy not realize that he's just making a HUUGE fool of himself and that we'r all laughing at him!

Hey all pro and fbcoach.. We even get a mention !

[all pro]

Dam this guy is so funny-

http://hit-training-nutrition.mypunb....php?id=350757

As if we haven't figure out that HE wrote that LOL. I think gerry has bigger issues than any of us had ever imagined

Hey all pro and fbcoach.. We even get a mention !

Post this with the link at Dr D's. This guy is one sick mofu'r.

[N@tural1]

Post this with the link at Dr D's. This guy is one sick mofu'r.

I have all pro. Its down to the mods to approve it.

[all pro]

Hey Brit, You should have posted this one:


#1 Today 01:08:44
Gerry Hitman
Administrator
HIT site? JUNE 11, 2008
Over at Dr. darden.com you will find what looks like a HIT site, but is it really?

No not really because Mr. Darden allowed himself to be hooked to T-Nation that hosts the site PROMOTING Biotest supplements.

Yes the same crap that caused Weider to come against HIT in days gone by is alive and well!

Nothing wrong in selling supplements but if you sell out HIT in the process you have been taken!

Dr. D?s site has been overrun with some of the vilest anti-HIT vermin. They boldly post all kinds crap training methods that are as far away from HIT as can be, and have in fact taken over!

Why does Dr. D allow this and not ban them? In one word?MONEY. T-Nation calls the shots and all pro and others have made good contacts within T-Nation and they are untouchable.

T-Nation is very anti-HIT always was, and Dr. D, should have known better to climb in bed with the enemy. But he did not.

What a shame as Dr. D is a very knowledgeable HIT instructor. Too bad his name will now be associated with COMPROMISE.

Gerry

I LUUUUUV IT!!!!!

[N@tural1]

I did all pro, I posted the link a few posts up mate.

And Ellington Darden IS aware. A moderator at Dardens PM'd me and told me he won't put it on the public forum but he has forwarded my information to the administration.

[Orlando1234977]

And if you really want to see Gerald in all his "glory", you can check out his photobucket images--a walking statement of HIT if ever I saw one...great fat-loss, but where's the beef?

And he said that he was going to put on about 25 pounds of muscle this year over at Dardens' forum. Good luck, Gerald, good luck...

lol, what's that, a pound per set??
And since, 'the last rep is the only one the matters', maybe it's a pound per 'good rep'.

LOLlolLOLlolLOL

Jerry the Hitman is scared to post in bb.com.