Lat pull downs vs. Pull ups

[schlopster]

Just curious as to what you guys think is better for building some serious mass on your lats. Recently i switched to pulldowns from pull ups. Ever since i switched my stretch marks have opened back up on my lats and some serious size has ensued. What I am wondering though i do 4 sets of 8, then i do 3 sets of 8 one arm pull downs, then go back with 3 sets of 10 wide grip. Does a wide grip beat a narrower one for lat development ?? I have definatly noticed some huge gains on my lats recently but I want more of a wing span look to them. Any Ideas fellas?

[wala]

I've found most people develop better back with pull ups rather than pull downs. But if this is working for you, then keep doing it!

Wide grip - upper lat

narrow grip - lower lat

[BaSsSiKk]

If you are able to do pullups it trumps the lat pulldown. Try and add weight and lower the reps and your back will grow. I owe all my back mass to pullups.

[TheGunShowMane]

I prefer doing lat pull downs, simply because pullups are not enough resistance any more, and I don't have a belt that can weight me down. Besides, I actually enjoy lat pull downs, and they seem to be less dependent upon your biceps unlike pullups.

[Devils]

Pullups,

If they get easy, strap weight to yourself.

[ploter]

PULLUPS!!!!

try this arm position.

if your pullup bar is on a flat horizontal plane position your arms at one o clock on the clock face for your left side and 11 o clock for your right side. Concentrate on doing most of the pulling with the arm that points to 12 on the clock ie the arm that is straight up. this is like a one handed pullup.

also really go slow on the negative ie the lowering part of the move.

my lats feel sore just thinking of this.

best wishes,

-p

[Dominik]

Just curious as to what you guys think is better for building some serious mass on your lats. Recently i switched to pulldowns from pull ups. Ever since i switched my stretch marks have opened back up on my lats and some serious size has ensued. What I am wondering though i do 4 sets of 8, then i do 3 sets of 8 one arm pull downs, then go back with 3 sets of 10 wide grip. Does a wide grip beat a narrower one for lat development ?? I have definatly noticed some huge gains on my lats recently but I want more of a wing span look to them. Any Ideas fellas?

Pull-ups at the start of a workout when fresh and lat pulldowns later in a workout. Pulldowns are more effective IMO when you're starting to fatigue since they allow for more volume with heavier weight.

[eazyrid3r]

The problem with lat pull downs is the gym is full of cheaters
Filthy, Dirty, Low Down Cheaters
If your back isn't PERFECTLY perpendicular to the floor, you are cheating, period
Leaning back like you are on the couch getting a BJ is not how to execute a lat pull down

The beautiful thing about pullups is that it is difficult to cheat unless you are frog kicking like you just escaped a submarine and struggling for air

Locking your legs during pull ups (I cross my legs and lock the knees) ensures there is zero cheating.

Even harder: Do a leg raise before you start your pull up set and hold you legs straight and parallel to the floor, start set

[Defiant1]

I've found most people develop better back with pull ups rather than pull downs. But if this is working for you, then keep doing it!

Wide grip - upper lat

narrow grip - lower lat

Pull-ups at the start of a workout when fresh and lat pulldowns later in a workout. Pulldowns are more effective IMO when you're starting to fatigue since they allow for more volume with heavier weight.

Agree with both.

OP though, if you didn't change your grip and pulldowns work better for you, then by all means keep doing them.

[Duckenheimer]

The problem with lat pull downs is the gym is full of cheaters
Filthy, Dirty, Low Down Cheaters
If your back isn't PERFECTLY perpendicular to the floor, you are cheating, period
Leaning back like you are on the couch getting a BJ is not how to execute a lat pull down

Leaning back can stimulate the muscles in a different way and provide variety.

Sure, people cheat themselves the majority of the time, but the exercise variation you criticise can be valuable, just like 1/2 squats can be valuable etc.

And I sometimes do my pullups with my back nearly horizontal to the floor, just for variety/challenge

OP many find pullups work better for them, but you shouldn't discount the value of variety over time, and if pulldowns work best for you, there's nothing wrong with that.

Actually, you mention one arm pulldowns, I started playing around with them last week or the week before, how do you perform them?

They feel GREAT on my lats, definitely more so than in conventional chins/pullups, maybe equal to parallel grip ring chinups, but different in feel of course.

[schlopster]

I appreciate hearing all of your guys opinions on the matter, I personally just was not getting burns from pullups anymore, on top of that i seemed to be fatiguing my biceps and almost hurting my shoulders. Someone commented on leaning back, I never cheat when I do them on some of my burnouts I go behind the head too despite numerous people saying how bad it is..... When watching Ronnie Coleman train on some of his vids he actually leans back quite far. So does he just not know what he is doing? :P

[Dominik]

The problem with lat pull downs is the gym is full of cheaters
Filthy, Dirty, Low Down Cheaters
If your back isn't PERFECTLY perpendicular to the floor, you are cheating, period
Leaning back like you are on the couch getting a BJ is not how to execute a lat pull down

The beautiful thing about pullups is that it is difficult to cheat unless you are frog kicking like you just escaped a submarine and struggling for air

Pullups are clearly not immune from cheating.



So it makes no sense to bash the exercise, criticize the form of the individual doing it. Lat pulldowns can easily morph into half-assed ego rows like you said, but when it comes to strictly targeting the lats, performed correctly in the vertical plane they're obviously very effective.

[Lift2010]

If your back isn't PERFECTLY perpendicular to the floor, you are cheating, period

wrong.

[schweefy]

wrong.

X5

[BreakingPoint8]

Just curious as to what you guys think is better for building some serious mass on your lats. Recently i switched to pulldowns from pull ups. Ever since i switched my stretch marks have opened back up on my lats and some serious size has ensued. What I am wondering though i do 4 sets of 8, then i do 3 sets of 8 one arm pull downs, then go back with 3 sets of 10 wide grip. Does a wide grip beat a narrower one for lat development ?? I have definatly noticed some huge gains on my lats recently but I want more of a wing span look to them. Any Ideas fellas?

Wide-Grip & Narrow-Grip Pull-Ups dominates all for lat development.

[I dont work at Ballys]

for bodybuilding purposes it does not make much difference if the exercise is closed or open chain. of course doing BOTH will yeild the best results but...

from Paul Chek:

"In bodybuilding, the concept of open and closed chain is far less relevant
because there is no athletic component to bodybuilding; the goal being to
have the biggest muscles, the best proportions and a good posing routine.

Bodybuilders can benefit greatly from this information though, as alternating
between open and closed chain exercises serves to more fully develop both the
nervous system and musculature due to the variety of recruitment patterns
needed."

[muruku]

a poster in another thread mentioned getting a full stretch at the top of every repetition, i found that helped alot.

[Overload]

Pull-ups at the start of a workout when fresh and lat pulldowns later in a workout.

Exactly what I do and I feel that makes the pulldowns more effective. They hurt more anyway and I like that...

Try hammer grip pullups as well. Lotsa of fun.

[Mlsde886]

The problem with lat pull downs is the gym is full of cheaters
Filthy, Dirty, Low Down Cheaters
If your back isn't PERFECTLY perpendicular to the floor, you are cheating, period
Leaning back like you are on the couch getting a BJ is not how to execute a lat pull down

The beautiful thing about pullups is that it is difficult to cheat unless you are frog kicking like you just escaped a submarine and struggling for air

Locking your legs during pull ups (I cross my legs and lock the knees) ensures there is zero cheating.

Even harder: Do a leg raise before you start your pull up set and hold you legs straight and parallel to the floor, start set

i agree with this man

[DJAuto]

Pull-ups at the start of a workout when fresh and lat pulldowns later in a workout. Pulldowns are more effective IMO when you're starting to fatigue since they allow for more volume with heavier weight.

x2.

My first movement is usually weighted pullups. Lat pull-downs are generally third or fourth.

People say that they both are equally effective and mimic the same movement. IMO, it's a bunch of hogwash.

[Alfz]

i switched em up every 5-7 weeks.

[buffgrk]

i agree with this man

your wrong.

[unkept_]

Both. Don't be so closed minded as to thinking that one is better than the other. They both work differently and it depends on a variety of factors.

IMO if you lean back on lat pulldowns, you really target the lats. Whereas strict form pull-ups, lats are definately utilized but I wouldn't say they target the lats the best.

[OrdoAbchao]

you're wrong.

Fixed: Now you're right.

[wala]

WTF?

... morons

[smellslikeshoes]

Obvious answer is do both.

[DEVzzz]

im impressed by the guy in the vid doing 67 kipping pullups but i do strict form

as far as lat pulldowns, i don't think leaning back makes much of a difference so long as you arent using any lean back momentum to move the weight, if you are leaned back at the beginning and the end of the rep then your form was strict and you were just targeting the exercise in a different way. I lean back with strict form on wide grip.

[Alfz]

Well for those in the video, their training might be totally different from ours. we want wide/thick lats, they might want explosiveness or something.

[stealth_swimmer]

If you are able to do pullups it trumps the lat pulldown. Try and add weight and lower the reps and your back will grow. I owe all my back mass to pullups.

He just said he used to do pullups - then started doing pulldowns - and his lats grew.

So let me follow your logic through here. You want him to...STOP what worked for him? Ok...

for bodybuilding purposes it does not make much difference if the exercise is closed or open chain. of course doing BOTH will yeild the best results but...

from Paul Chek:

"In bodybuilding, the concept of open and closed chain is far less relevant
because there is no athletic component to bodybuilding; the goal being to
have the biggest muscles, the best proportions and a good posing routine.

Bodybuilders can benefit greatly from this information though, as alternating
between open and closed chain exercises serves to more fully develop both the
nervous system and musculature due to the variety of recruitment patterns
needed."

I never really gave that thought but I guess it serves a purpose. Thx for the informative post!

[ExtremistPullup]

WTF?

... morons

Cross-fit live in there own world.