The Islamic view on the Trinity

[American Snake]

when SK says what he says he's stating his belief.
when you say bull**** you state your belief.
if you think his belief is wrong (an dnot wrong simply because it doesn't suit your belief) question his beliefs, rather than rejecting it.
If you don't believe Quran is God's words question his belief on that rather than thinking it's irrational.





What is your definition of slander?
I can't think of anything SK has done to slander a religion.
What we do is based on our beliefs.

once again I cannot remember when SK has compared Islam with other religions to show Islam is right.
IN fact, if you do a search you might find that he is against comparing religions and he doesn't use religion comparing links to explain his beliefs.


so, can you show me some of this comparing and slandering that you believe we have done?

thanks

Naw, when i say bull****, i say how he talks of other beliefs as if he actually knows and truley understands them, when in reality he knows zilch. Much like yourself. If you are adhernts to Islam, stick to Islam. Dont be commenting or talking about other faiths which you are unqualified to speak for.

You guys both suffer from short term memory loss. Stop asking people to quote **** SK says and promotes all the time. BTW you wanna piece of gum? Your breath smells like SK's behind

[American Snake]

so no matter how we try to converse we you, you'd still calls us names eh

"childish minds"

You want a tissue? Poor baby, i didnt know such benign mild words would be so offensive to you. No wonder you guys cry to the mods and get people banned so much.

[TranceNRG]

Naw, when i say bull****, i say how he talks of other beliefs as if he actually knows and truley understands them, when in reality he knows zilch. Much like yourself. If you are adhernts to Islam, stick to Islam. Dont be commenting or talking about other faiths which you are unqualified to speak for.

You guys both suffer from short term memory loss. Stop asking people to quote **** SK says and promotes all the time. BTW you wanna piece of gum? Your breath smells like SK's behind

childish minds eh
ok then....

[TranceNRG]

You want a tissue? Poor baby, i didnt know such benign mild words would be so offensive to you. No wonder you guys cry to the mods and get people banned so much.

we do?
well that's news to me

but anywayz...
me and my childish mind and smelly breath are gonna go study

peace

[American Snake]

we do?
well that's news to me

but anywayz...
me and my childish mind and smelly breath are gonna go study

peace

peace

[wanttobearnold]

To muslims on the board,

What does the Qu'ran teach as to who the three parts of the Trinity are?

[TranceNRG]

To muslims on the board,

What does the Qu'ran teach as to who the three parts of the Trinity are?

Muslims do not believe in the concept of biblical Trinity.

I believe SK posted some great links.

check those out

[wanttobearnold]

Muslims do not believe in the concept of biblical Trinity.

I believe SK posted some great links.

check those out

I know they don't, what I meant was what does the Qur'an say Christian believe make up the Trinity?

[olaf christ]

To falsify Islam all you need to do it falsify the Quran

http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/

If the Koran contradicts itself, doesn't that falsify it?

[wanttobearnold]

Arguements for the Trinity

http://answering-islam.org/Mna/trinity.html

http://answering-islam.org/Trinity/index.html

[TranceNRG]

I know they don't, what I meant was what does the Qur'an say Christian believe make up the Trinity?

read this, you might like it

http://www.themodernreligion.com/com...ible_tri.htm#2

[TranceNRG]

http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/

If the Koran contradicts itself, doesn't that falsify it?

no it doesn't
each of those points were thoroughly explained by SK

if you wish to read them, you can ask each contradiction one by one from SK or other Quran experts on this board


But what it comes down to is taking the verses out of context, twisting it around to suit their own ideas and trust me that can be done about any holy book.

[TranceNRG]

Arguements for the Trinity

http://answering-islam.org/Mna/trinity.html

http://answering-islam.org/Trinity/index.html

http://answering-christianity.org/at.htm

OR

you can read all the articles against Trinity here

http://www.themodernreligion.com/comparative.html

[olaf christ]

Proclaim!
In the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, who created -
created man, out of a mere clot of congealed blood.
-- Sura 96:1-2

It is he who has created man from water
-- Sura 25:54

And God has created every living creature from water.
-- Sura 24:45

We created man from sounding clay,
from mud moulded into shape.
-- Sura 15:26

Amongst his signs is this,
that he created you from dust.
-- Sura 30:20

God createth what He willeth:
When he hath decreed a plan,
He but saith to it, "Be," and it is!
-- Sura 3:47

Well, some of the contradictions that site presents are uncertain or depend on context, but this one of 'what was man made from' seems more concrete. How can this be resolved?

[TranceNRG]

Well, some of the contradictions that site presents are uncertain or depend on context, but this one of 'what was man made from' seems more concrete. How can this be resolved?

it has been answered here

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=493482

[wanttobearnold]

it has been answered here

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=493482

It has not been totally answered.

The phases of the human embryo and the creation of man are one of the miracles of the Qu'ran but,


Phases of the Human Embryo as per the Quran

1. sperm
2. clot
3. piece of lump or flesh
4. bones
5. dressing the bones with muscles

23:12-14

Verily We created man from a product of wet earth, then placed him as a drop of seed in a safe lodging, then We fashioned the drop a clot, and of the clot we fashioned a lump and of the lump We fashioned bones, and We clothed the bones with meat. Then we produced it as another creation.

So, we see yes the Quran shows the phases of prenatal development, but there are some problems. First, if you study human reproduction, there is no stage as a clot during the formation of a fetus.
The other problem is it showing the bones developing first, and then they are covered with muscle. In human development the muscles and the cartilage develop at the same time. There is no point where calcified bones have been formed and then the muscles are placed around them.

Now what is interesting to note, is that there are other people who have came up with the prenatal development stages before the Quran.

Hippocrates' Stages

1. sperm
2. mother's blood descends around the membrane
3. flesh, fed through the umbilicus
4. bones

Aristotle's Stages

1. sperm
2. menstrual blood
3. flesh
4. bones
5. around the bones grow the fleshy parts

Galen's Stages

1. The two semens
1b. plus menstrual blood
2. unshaped flesh
3. bones
3b. flesh grows on and around the bones.

Notice some similarites between them all. For those curious, Galen was born in 131AD, 500 years before the Quran.

[olaf christ]

From that thread:

The claim here is logically confused because it tries to combine the two different stages mankind was created.

There are two separated stages man is created.

The first is Adam, who was nothing, then created from moist earth (the ingredients of which will include water, dirt etc).

The second is his progeny and every other human that came after him, which are created from sperm and egg and form into the fetus, etc.

Sura 30:20

And of His signs is this: He created you of dust, and behold you human beings, ranging widely!

... but this verse implies that he created 'human beings, ranging widely' from dust. The 'you' cannot refer to adam and eve as the context of this verse is at the time of the Romans (30:2), which is long after the time of Adam and Eve.

[wanttobearnold]

From that thread:


Sura 30:20

And of His signs is this: He created you of dust, and behold you human beings, ranging widely!

... but this verse implies that he created 'human beings, ranging widely' from dust. The 'you' cannot refer to adam and eve as the context of this verse is at the time of the Romans (30:2), which is long after the time of Adam and Eve.

I would have to say though, that as I look at that sura I would agree with Islamic theology. It doesn't seem like it should be in the context of Roman times, I would say that it does refer to the original creation of Adam.

[TranceNRG]

I would have to say though, that as I look at that sura I would agree with Islamic theology. It doesn't seem like it should be in the context of Roman times, I would say that it does refer to the original creation of Adam.

you're right
teh name of the Sura doesn't indicate the era of the sura.

also about your question, I'll let SK who is more of an expert to handle it

Just a couple of links that might or might not help.

Another imaginary inconsistency put forward by Tremblay is that between the Qur'an and modern embryology. Tremblay objects to the following verses:

We created man from the purest kind of clay; then made him a drop in a secure receptacle; then formed the drop into an embryo and formed the embryo into a lump and formed the lump into bones and clothed the bones in flesh; and then brought him into being as another creature. Blessed be Allah, the Best of Creators! (Qur'an, 23: 12-14)

What Tremblay fails to understand here is that the "creation from clay" described in the first verse refers to the creation of the first human being. Other verses of the Qur'an in fact state that the first human being was created from clay (6/2, 15/26, 55/14). When one considers that just about all the elements that comprise the human body are also present in the earth, it can be seen that this account is most compatible with the scientific facts.

In the continuation of the verses human development in the mother's womb is described, and this is fully in line with the scientific facts: A description is given of the sperm reaching the womb, the way it is kept there, how it grows there and turns into tissue, how bones form within that tissue and how the bones are covered with muscles. Tremblay objects to that chronology, saying that bones begin to form after the 40th day. These objections are meaningless, however. As stated in the verse, the embryo is a "lump" until the 40th day. Bone formation starting after the 40th day and other tissues forming around them is quite compatible with the facts in the Qur'an.

One person who has carried out a detailed study on this subject is the Canadian Professor Keith L. Moore, formerly of the Toronto University Anatomy and Cell Biology Department. Moore lived in Saudi Arabia for a time, where he studied with various Muslim religious scholars the facts about embryology given in the Qur'an, and established that these were strikingly compatible with the discoveries of modern science. Moore also studied in some detail the verses that Tremblay attempts to criticize, and showed that these were fully compatible with the scientific findings.

http://www.contactpakistan.com/news/news118.htm

http://www.islampedia.com/ijaz/Html/.../Keith%20L.htm

[TranceNRG]

http://www.al-islam.org/enlightening_tl/5.htm



http://al-islam.org/about/contributi...roduction.html

[Oubobcat06]

But let's say all your life you believed there's a unicorn on mars and everything seemed to work fine for you with that belief and let's say I believed there's no unicorn on mars and it worked fine for me.

the FACT is there's either a unicorn or there isn't.
so only one of us is correct. We may not know which one of us is correct, but us not knowing doesn't change the truth.

But if I believe my unicorn will give me eternal life and paradise and I turn out to be right well then that's awesome, but you've missed out by not believing...but if it turns out that I was wrong...I'm still in the same boat as you.... and I've lived a good and just life.. (not implying that non-christians don't live morally...)

[TranceNRG]

But if I believe my unicorn will give me eternal life and paradise and I turn out to be right well then that's awesome, but you've missed out by not believing...but if it turns out that I was wrong...I'm still in the same boat as you.... and I've lived a good and just life.. (not implying that non-christians don't live morally...)

Prisoner's Dillemma
I agree

But neither of KNOW

[TranceNRG]

Wanttobearnold...

people often miss the fact that the Qur'an is 100% accurate in everything it scientifically discusses, so these people who claim plagiarism are committing a logical fallacy.

if they are claiming that every single thing the Qur'an says was somehow ripped off of something else, then that doesn't explain how every single thing that was "ripped off" happened to be the correct opinion.

If it was plagiariasm, you would get right and wrong opinions mixed around, but the fact that everything is accurate refutes this idea, because it shows you that the true author of the Qur'an knew exactly which scientific opinions were correct and which were not, never mixing any of the incorrect ones (even though in those days and before there were hundreds of weird opinions).

So simply to site other people who came close, doesn't explain that away

http://www.harunyahya.com/creation04.php **

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_57.html
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_62.html
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_63.html

[American Snake]

In ancient symbolisms the trinity was expressed in many ways as a manisfestation of nature's signature. For example: The Mind, Body and Soul. The human body's natural archetype. Or the Father, Mother and Child as the family archetype. It is not only in Catholic and Christian symbolism that this trinity reveals itself. Just food for thought

[TranceNRG]

In ancient symbolisms the trinity was expressed in many ways as a manisfestation of nature's signature. For example: The Mind, Body and Soul. The human body's natural archetype. Or the Father, Mother and Child as the family archetype. It is not only in Catholic and Christian symbolism that this trinity reveals itself. Just food for thought

Snake...
I do not disagree with those ancient symbolism, because they are not about God.

However the biblical trinity IS about God.

[American Snake]

Snake...
I do not disagree with those ancient symbolism, because they are not about God.

However the biblical trinity IS about God.

As so is the trinity of ancient symbolism. It is about God.

[TranceNRG]

As so is the trinity of ancient symbolism. It is about God.

ok, I dunno much about it
so I guess I shouldn't comment on it.

[Jesusisgod]

God said, "I already told the world about Muhammed. He is THE WORTHLESS SHEPARD from Zechariah Chapter 11 (B.C.) and THE FALSE PROPHET from Revelations (A.D.)".

God then had me put this here: (ZECHARIAH CHAPTER 11 BELOW).

(Jesus)(the good shepard)
10 And I took my staff, Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the peoples. 11 And it was broken in that day; and so the poor of the flock that gave heed to me knew that it was the word of Jehovah. 12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give [me] my hire; and if not, forbear. And they weighed for my hire thirty silver-pieces. 13 And Jehovah said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prized at by them. And I took the thirty silver-pieces, and cast them to the potter in the house of Jehovah.

(Muhammed)(the worthless shepard)
14 And I cut asunder mine other staff, Bands, to break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel. 15 And Jehovah said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd. 16 For behold, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, who shall not visit those that are about to perish, neither shall seek that which is strayed away, nor heal that which is wounded, nor feed that which is sound; but he will eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their hoofs in pieces. 17 Woe to the worthless shepherd that leaveth the flock! The sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye; his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye utterly darkened.

(JESUS CLARIFIES VERSE 17 IN THE GOSPEL SAYING THAT IF YOUR EYE IS COMPLETELY DARKENED IT MEANS YOU ARE COMPLETELY EVIL.)

JESUS ALSO SAID THAT YOU WILL KNOW IF SOMEONE IS FROM GOD IF THEY ARE LIKE A SHEEP AND NOT LIKE A WOLF - MUHAMMED AND HIS MEN WENT TO BATTLE CHANTING, "KILL! KILL! KILL!" (TABARI XIII:141). - IS THAT THE MENTALITY OF:

A) A SHEEP
B) A WOLF

PEACE - WRITE ME IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION FOR ME TO ASK GOD...I HAVE THE GIFT OF PROPHECY.

[theholyspirit]

even though Muhammed knew about spiritual channeling and writes about how to channel spirits as did Peter, Paul, Jesus, James, Jude, and John to name a few...

he missed the most important rule - an evil spirit can't say "Jesus rose from the dead"

therefore he was succeptible to false prophecies

Paul channels in Timother Ch. 4 and says that people will fall victim to demonic channeling in the future and forbid to eat certain meats (muslims) and marry (catholic priests)

[KhanPaulsen]

Food for thought, since things are lost in translations.

The Islamic people would do `very` well to study the original scripts of the Old Testament in Hebrew.

I want you to pay VERY close attention on how the word God is used in Hebrew in their manuscripts. You're going to learn something here that is going to confuse you beyond all reason considering that Judaism is a pure monotheistic religion.

All I'll say now, is the original scripts in Hebrew refer to God as a plural at all times throughout Genesis. Have fun, and good luck.

Islam saying Jesus never died on the cross, or was resurrected is also shady as all give-out. People SAW him die, and people SAW him resurrected. The denial of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ is a huge problem for Islam, and even the things SK has posted don't cover the issue accurately. They are very dodgy around it just making the claim, "He was drawn up to Heaven prior to His death."

There is evidence of the existance of the trinity even PRIOR to the New Testament.