Nitric oxide marketing = COMPLETE SCAM

**NO HYPE** · 03-22-2007, 12:49 PM

If the NO products even aquire the ability to significantly up-regulate NO production....

it would be detrimental to our health!

Originally Posted by NO HYPE

"Nitric oxide is toxic at high physiological concentration where it appears to function as a cellular effector molecule that mediates both cytostatic and cytotoxic effect." [1]

"NO is generated in the course of inflammatory and immune reactions, both by macrophages and by neutrophils. The role of these cells is quite extensive, and includes phagocytic and non-phagocytic destruction of foreign or damaged cells. These processes involve the production of large quantities of NO, which is cytotoxic." [1]

"Although NO can be cytotoxic to tumour cells (as it is to other cells), it can also act as a carcinogen." [2]

"NO, a chemical radical, and its toxic derivatives can cause DNA damage and cell death in a variety of cell types. NO also has the ability to directly modify intracellular targets such as proteins and lipid-peroxidation products. NO produces cytotoxicity at high concentrations, whereas NO at lower concentrations may have the opposite effect and protect against apoptotic cell death from various stimuli. Therefore, regulation of NO production is vital for both cell survival and genome integrity. DNA damage triggers p53 protein accumulation, which produces either growth arrest or apoptosis. Exposure of cells to high NO concentrations causes DNA damage and apoptosis, and recent results have shown that NO stimulates p53 accumulation and p53-mediated apoptosis." [3]

[1] http://bmc.ub.uni-potsdam.de/1471-2210-2-18/

[2] http://www.clinsci.org/cs/098/0507/0980507.pdf

[3] http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/95/15/8823

So what do you all think about the plethora of NO products.... complete hype???????????

**gekkoboy14** · 03-22-2007, 12:54 PM

NO is also naturally occuring in our bodies...

**(((A^T^R)))_old** · 03-22-2007, 12:59 PM

NO products are ghey as hell. Search NO-Explode and you'll get a million threads of 17-21 year-old dumbass people that ask how to dose it, how to cycle it, how to snort it off of a homo's ass.

NO products are a scam. Money should be spent on protein, creatine, free form leucine, and a good multi-v instead of skirting these staples because you want a NO-explosion in your 15inch arms. The people that buy the sh*t are a non-stop parade of the diluted that think arginine=direct muscle growth. So many studies debunk its praise.

Rant off

**NO HYPE** · 03-22-2007, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by gekkoboy14

NO is also naturally occuring in our bodies...

Yes, and the NO products claim to up-regulate it's endogenous production.

If that were true.... the facts that were posted above, would completely nullify that logic.

**5Six** · 03-22-2007, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by gekkoboy14

NO is also naturally occuring in our bodies...

Yes, it is naturally occurring in our bodies. But if as most of the quotes say, it is in TOXIC levels.

No, I am not defending NO products. I will first off say I like the mental aspect of NO, the pump keeps me going. Will it ever be a staple in my current supplement regime? No

**Fardosh** · 03-22-2007, 01:35 PM

link removed

What you feel while taking a NO product is the insane cafeine dose in it. After 2 weeks the body get used to it and you feel absolutly nothing!

Use your money to buy a good protein, creatine or BCAA, but don't waste your cash on NO product.

X2 for NO_hype!.

N.B. : don'T click on the link in my post, I got a virus and I am unable to delete it. sniff
If you know this stupid virus, plz send me a PM, I got to delete it badly.

**5Six** · 03-22-2007, 01:37 PM

Another thread 'bout NO products.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=573903

**AdonisMagnus** · 03-23-2007, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Fardosh

link removed

What you feel while taking a NO product is the insane cafeine dose in it. After 2 weeks the body get used to it and you feel absolutly nothing!

Use your money to buy a good protein, creatine or BCAA, but don't waste your cash on NO product.

X2 for NO_hype!.

N.B. : don'T click on the link in my post, I got a virus and I am unable to delete it. sniff
If you know this stupid virus, plz send me a PM, I got to delete it badly.

Somebody should ban you until you fix this, I just firefox so I cancelled the download but if my computer starts to **** up I'm gonna email you a fat bag of ****

**INGENIUM** · 03-23-2007, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by NO HYPE

If the NO products even aquire the ability to significantly up-regulate NO production....

it would be detrimental to our health!

So what do you all think about the plethora of NO products.... complete hype???????????

while i agree that NO products are complete and utter garbage...

your post is a bit misleading...no NO supplement can raise NO levels to the point of cytotoxicity....

**NO HYPE** · 03-23-2007, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by INGENIUM

no NO supplement can raise NO levels to the point of cytotoxicity....

.... and just what is the point of cytotoxicity?

**NO HYPE** · 03-23-2007, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by INGENIUM

your post is a bit misleading...no NO supplement can raise NO levels to the point of cytotoxicity....

Where was it misleading?

Where did I mention that the NO products could even up-regulate NO production?

**NO HYPE** · 03-23-2007, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by NO HYPE

Yes, and the NO products claim to up-regulate it's endogenous production.

If that were true.... the facts that were posted above, would completely nullify that logic.

Bump.

**maffie2** · 03-23-2007, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by NO HYPE

.... and just what is the point of cytotoxicity?

cyto = cell, toxicity = poison. cellular poisoning

**NO HYPE** · 03-23-2007, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by maffie2

cyto = cell, toxicity = poison. cellular poisoning

Yeah thanks, I am well aware of what cytotoxicity means. So can you answer my original question?

Originally Posted by NO HYPE

.... and just what is the point of cytotoxicity?

The studies indicated that "non-physiological concentrations" of NO are cytotoxic.... which IMO suggests that up-regulated NO production (to the point of augmenting physiological homeostasis), will result in cytotoxicity, apoptotic cell death, DNA mutation, ect.

The studies never indicated as to what the actual amounts were.

**5Six** · 03-23-2007, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by NO HYPE

The studies never indicated as to what the actual amounts were.

They didn't say what the exact dosages were in the full article? Cause not saying the actual dosage is leaves a giant gapping hole that can be only filled with assumption.

**NO HYPE** · 03-23-2007, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by 5-6

They didn't say what the exact dosages were in the full article? Cause not saying the actual dosage is leaves a giant gapping hole that can be only filled with assumption.

The studies had nothing to do with dosages, but rather.... were just referring to the fact that concentrations of NO that supercede physiological reference points, display cytotoxic properties.

**5Six** · 03-23-2007, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by NO HYPE

The studies had nothing to do with dosages, but rather.... were just referring to the fact that concentrations of NO that supercede physiological reference points, display cytotoxic properties.

Okay, but still. To reach points beyond the physiological reference points, you still need to have a dosage. It can either be small or rather large. Again, it still leaves questions open for debate. How much is too much?

But yes, NO is still an overrated product.

**NO HYPE** · 03-23-2007, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by 5-6

Okay, but still. To reach points beyond the physiological reference points, you still need to have a dosage.

A dosage would indicate administration.... NO is not being administered.

**INGENIUM** · 03-23-2007, 08:56 AM

good read

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/90/21/9813

Nitric oxide protects against cellular damage and cytotoxicity from reactive oxygen species
DAVID A. WINK*, INGEBORG HANBAUERt, MURALI C. KRISHNAt, WILLIAM DEGRAFFt, JANET GAMSON*, AND JAMES B. MITCHELL*?

It has been proposed that NO or reactive nitrogen oxide species can directly cause cell death. However, primary neuronal cell cultures exposed to concentrations of NO as high as 1 mM show no adverse effects

**5Six** · 03-23-2007, 08:58 AM

Yes, I realize that NO isn't being administered. Even it if pre-cursors or what have you, it still has come from somewhere, right?

Any how, off to study for class.

**natescope** · 03-23-2007, 08:59 AM

this is stupid, high doses of oxygen can kill someone, water has killed someone. i guess Aquafina is a scam too

**liftjunkie06** · 03-23-2007, 09:03 AM

I personally don't beleive in them much. This is after using a few different types. NoXplode is okay, but the effect is no different than a good energy pill or drink. Plus it gives me a bad case of blowout when I take, even though I'm used to it. Besides making me "feel" bigger, they don't do much for me. I just want them to work because of the price tag, but I think they are virtually worthless. Just my opinion though. They are 95% hype.

**NO HYPE** · 03-23-2007, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by natescope

this is stupid,

I love "stupid" posts.

**natescope** · 03-23-2007, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by NO HYPE

I love "stupid" posts.

hahah, well too much of anything is fatal

**NO HYPE** · 03-23-2007, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by INGENIUM

Nitric oxide protects against cellular damage and cytotoxicity from reactive oxygen species

Originally Posted by NO HYPE

NO produces cytotoxicity at high concentrations, whereas NO at lower concentrations may have the opposite effect and protect against apoptotic cell death from various stimuli. Therefore, regulation of NO production is vital for both cell survival and genome integrity.

....

**NO HYPE** · 03-23-2007, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by 5-6

But yes, NO is still an overrated product.

I doubt any of the NO products can significantly up-regulate NO production in the first place, but if they could.... these facts would completely nullify the entire logic behind NO up-regulation.

**rizoN17** · 03-23-2007, 09:11 AM

NO really doesn't seem to have any direct effect on building muscle...

BUUUT a good pre-workout supplement containing NO can GREATLY increase productivity in the gym... which eventually will better stimulation/strength gains.

So, is NO necessary? Not at all, an I'd never buy a standalone NO product again. However, a pre-workout combo such as White Flood may to me well mentally and physically in the gym.

**INGENIUM** · 03-23-2007, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by NO HYPE

....

read the full text...those were fairly high concentrations

**NO HYPE** · 03-23-2007, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by INGENIUM

read the full text...those were fairly high concentrations

Completely different results if done in vivo.

**monsterBEN** · 03-23-2007, 10:18 AM

but but.. i want mind blowing pumpzzz

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