Overtraining: What it is and what it isn't. And why you've stalled.

[BBALL233223]

Can Someone Whos Know What They're Doing Please Look At My Profile And Comment On My Programs, Thanks.

[martin2min]

I recently took a week off as I do every 8 weeks, and then when i got back I did my regular chest, shoulder, triceps routine. However, the day after there i this piericng pain everytime I rotate my shoulder. I was wondering if this could be a result of overtraining, which does not make tht much sense since i took a week off and i was feelling great. Also have you ever had this type of problemm and if yes, how long did it take you to get back to lifting?

[J_MaSS]

WoW, great first thread to read! Thanks for the sticky, SEE it does work for newbs who arn't ignorant.

[erebusii]

Great post VikingMan. I wonder how many will actually take the time to read it and put it to good use?

I'm glad this thread was referred to in another thread (Exercise forum I think). I just hit some hard overtraining and didn't realize that I could go back to my old program after deloading, though it is up for review in the amount of exercise and volume.

How come guys who work construction or have heavy manual labor jobs never "overtrain"?

Technically I would assume because they do a higher volume of high intensity work on a regular basis and therefore their bodies adapt. I work a heavy duty industrial job working with some heavy railcar bearings. That coupled with going fullbore on my workouts, has led to some overtraining but it took about 3 weeks.

[VikingMan]

Wow. I've been stickied. *eek*

[erebusii]

And I repped you VM. Good information

As a side note I found some good articles on the main site:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hardgainer23.htm - About Manual Labor and Training (good info for people like me)

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/topicoftheweek87.htm - Topic Of Week: How To Prevent Overtraining

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/berardi22.htm - Part 1 of 3 for information about overtraining

[El_Gigante]

Make sure that after you deload yourself you still stick to your consistant stretching techniques especially after taking a couple of weeks off. Your body has settled and therefor the ripping of new muscles that havent been used in a while will be put under extra stress. the pain should go away with extra stretching and start a little lower and slower the first couple of days after taking a break.

[RashadAdams]

My biceps are not where I want them to be. How do I improve my chest and biceps. I need a program bro. All I have is the perfect push up hand bars, a curl bar of about 60 pounds and a single 25 pound curl weight.
This is all I have to work with.
Keep in mind that I am 6'7 bout 210 with mile long arms which I think makes it hard for me.
A helpful reply would be greatly appreciated.

[GerryHitman]

How come guys who work construction or have heavy manual labor jobs never "overtrain"?

Because the work they do is not intense enough to use up their recovery resourses.

Overtraining is simply "the gas tank is empty". Time away from training allows the body the chance to re-fill the tank. The higher the intensity of the workout the more resourses (gas) is used, therefore the less frequently you can do such workouts without running out and overtraining.

High intensity training is very productive and expensive recovery wise.

[wada]

I dun think u can overtrain only working out 3x per week...with minimal cardio...
If your working out 5+ per week plus regular (>3 cardio sessions of >30min) you'll need rest at least every 8 weeks for more than 3 days....
Personally, I've felt the effects of overtraining during my cutting cycle this past month...
The main thing i noticed was multiple sleep awakenings throughout the night, as well as feeling "hot"...
I took 3 days off, and dropped cardio out for 5 days...that did the trick and I was able to finish my transformation!

[erebusii]

good information GerryHitman. repped.

I dun think u can overtrain only working out 3x per week...with minimal cardio...
If your working out 5+ per week plus regular (>3 cardio sessions of >30min) you'll need rest at least every 8 weeks for more than 3 days....

Like I was lifting 6 days a week and working a heavy industrial job. lol

So I cut my program back to lifting 3x per week, with 2 days of minimal cardio. I'll see if it's intense enough.

[GerryHitman]

I dun think u can overtrain only working out 3x per week...with minimal cardio...

Its possible if you used up your recover resourses. This would depend on the level of intensity used; the higher the intensity the more you use.

The key is to be sensitive to your body's condition. Progress in strength and size gains should be on-going therefore keeping good records is a must. When progress stalls, overtraining needs to be seriously considered as the cause; rest and time away from the gym would then be in order, as you did.

[bango skank]

Because the work they do is not intense enough to use up their recovery resourses.


High intensity training is very productive and expensive recovery wise.

Man... if 'being wrong' were a job, Gerry would be CEO and chief executive.

You've obviously never done any kind of manual labor aside from working out in your patchouli herb garden, or you wouldn't make ignorant blanket statements like "laborers don't work intensely enough..." That was a really stupid thing to say.

Manual laborers have a higher work capacity from the hard work they do. They are "fit" from all the heavy carrying, lifting, chopping, throwing or whatever else might be included. By doing this day in and day out for 8 hours (or more) they have basically increased their recovery abilities. They can simply recover better than guys who sit on their asses. Programs like Crossfit replicate this same principal.

[GerryHitman]

Man... if 'being wrong' were a job, Gerry would be CEO and chief executive.

You've obviously never done any kind of manual labor aside from working out in your patchouli herb garden, or you wouldn't make ignorant blanket statements like "laborers don't work intensely enough..." That was a really stupid thing to say.

Manual laborers have a higher work capacity from the hard work they do. They are "fit" from all the heavy carrying, lifting, chopping, throwing or whatever else might be included. By doing this day in and day out for 8 hours (or more) they have basically increased their recovery abilities. They can simply recover better than guys who sit on their asses. Programs like Crossfit replicate this same principal.

Everyone,
There is a small group here that hate my training method, and because I promote this method (because it works); they spew their hate against me (notice the red reps).

Bango, blinded by your hate, you have not understood my post. I did not say labor work was not hard work, I was talking about intensity. All weight training programs are high intensity compared to labor work which is of a higher volume and lower intensity. Weight training simply uses up the recovery resources much faster.

[erebusii]

Banko, you have not understood my post. I did not say labor work was not hard work, I was talking about intensity. All weight training programs are high intensity compared to labor work which is of a higher volume and lower intensity. Weight training simply uses up the recovery resources much faster.

I'd agree. After awhile, the body becomes accustomed to the job's work and it doesn't use up all the recovery resources. It still does factor into your recovery when you put training plus work and try to recover.

[bango skank]

Everyone,
There is a small group here that hate my training method, and because I promote this method (because it works); they spew their hate against me (notice the red reps).

Bango, blinded by your hate, you have not understood my post. I did not say labor work was not hard work, I was talking about intensity. All weight training programs are high intensity compared to labor work which is of a higher volume and lower intensity. Weight training simply uses up the recovery resources much faster.

Persecution complex much?

There are actually two kinds of overtraining: volume induced overtraining and intensity induced overtraining. Someone who runs too many miles every day or always trains to failure would suffer from the former and someone who always lifts with legitimate high intensity (>90% of 1RM) would suffer from the latter. That is why both elements must be controlled in any reasonable training program. I would assume that, if nothing else, someone who practices HIT would understand that simple concept. Although maybe Mentzer never got that far...

[bango skank]

I'd agree. After awhile, the body becomes accustomed to the job's work and it doesn't use up all the recovery resources.

exactly! Increased work capacity, hence why manual laborers can handle the extra volume.

[GerryHitman]

I'd agree. After awhile, the body becomes accustomed to the job's work and it doesn't use up all the recovery resources. It still does factor into your recovery when you put training plus work and try to recover.

Yes. High Intensity weight training is very diffrent from labor work in that the speed of which resourses are used up is MUCH faster with the weight training.
Labor work while being "hard" is low intensity and allows the body the time to recover even on a contuinous basis.

Whereas 1 high intensity workout in the gym would be like condensing (for example) 1-2 weeks of labor work in resourses used.

The body cannot keep up with this on a contuinous basis and which is why time away from the gym is required to RESTORE. How much time? Depends on how much you are using up in the workouts. The higher the intensity the more used.

[bango skank]

Whereas 1 high intensity workout in the gym would be like condensing (for example) 1-2 weeks of labor work in resourses used.

LOL.

[erebusii]

I don't know about condensing that much. With my job, 1.5 hours of weight training (strength training and upping the weight each workout) can be... like 4 - 8 hours.

[GerryHitman]

I don't know about condensing that much. With my job, 1.5 hours of weight training (strength training and upping the weight each workout) can be... like 4 - 8 hours.

I talking about high intensity training and recovery resourses. Depleted recover resourses are difficult to measure as the noticable effects of loss is not easily detecable by the senses.

Yet we know the labor worker can work for many years and never suffer the effects of overtraining.

A few very high intensity workouts placed close together can result in noticable overtraining symptoms.

I assume you are doing both and would say its your weight training that you need to be most conserned with recovery resourse wise. The fact that you are also doing labor work would require less volume and frequency than those would dont work like you. But keep you training intense to facilitate growth stimulation (if thats your goal).

[N@tural1]

Everyone,
There is a small group here that hate my training method, and because I promote this method (because it works); they spew their hate against me (notice the red reps).

This group here that does not hate your training method which I may add has been explained to you time and time again and again that its got ridiculously boring, but for the bennifit of "everyone"

This "small" group of people has no problem with those that practice HIT

We do have a problem with gerry's stinking attitude and constant display of outragious claims one of which was the claim that HIT will give you STEROID like results.

Here's another

1 high intensity workout in the gym would be like condensing (for example) 1-2 weeks of labor work in resourses used.

lol man you have ANY idea how the body works!

A few other classics from gerry by his other usernames so you get an idea why some have a problem with Gerry

Real knowledgeable? Now that's a joke if I ever heard one, LOL. The only thing you and your boyfriend allpro could teach us from experience is how to be a fat boy! Hey I noticed you took down your fat boy avatar, good move. I challenge you and your buddy who is so smart giving out so much valuable advice, to put up some photos. Show us those big rolls of fat!

And if the forum rules required photos you and your fat buddies would be gone! Lol.

HIT ALWAYS works the ways its supposed to when its done the WAY its supposed to be done.

I have personally NEVER met anyone that did HIT correctly with 100% effort that it did not work, now I am serious! I am growing as I sit here typing I have gained 8lbs of muscle in the past 3 weeks this is true and no steriods!

WOW growing as you sit typing! No steroids! LMAO

Everyone who trains HIT correctly gets results, some simply do not have the gusto to do it.

^^ I find this one particularly insulting to everyone that doesnt train HIT, we lack "gusto" do we?


You see its not that we have a problem with users of HIT, but when one is insulting and deluded, that becomes something we have a problem with.

[Zoupa]

If I was deloading on a regular bodypart split, would it be fine if I dropped weight by 10% aiming for the same number of reps and decreasing volume by about 20%? Or should I drop 1 or the other more? I think that's what the original DFHT advocated when I did it years ago.

[bango skank]

1 high intensity workout in the gym would be like condensing 1-2 weeks of labor work in resourses used.

manual labor resources... like lumber and concrete?

WOW growing as you sit typing! No steroids! LMAO

Nah... that's just him pushing his arm against his chest to make it look bigger than it actually is (like in his pic, lol).

[GerryHitman]

Jealousy is a terrible thing.

Instead of making negative comments about someone who is posting progress photos and reports, why not post some of your own first? Where are your progress photos? Where is your training journal?

Why not let everyone know Bango why you only lasted only 2 workouts with HIT.

Here is my most recent progress report and since I am progressing every workout, every workout is a progress report!

http://blog.bodybuilding.com/GerryHitman

[ilovecreo]

will this be ok ?

day 1 chest/shoulders/tricep
day 2 back/lat/bicep
day 3 rest
day 4 chest/shoulders/tricep
day 5 back/lat/bicep
day 6 rest
day 7 rest

[N@tural1]

will this be ok ?

day 1 chest/shoulders/tricep
day 2 back/lat/bicep
day 3 rest
day 4 chest/shoulders/tricep
day 5 back/lat/bicep
day 6 rest
day 7 rest

Any reason why you're missing legs?

[Dominik]

Jealousy is a terrible thing.

Let's keep this thread on topic.

Take the HIT vs. whatever arguments to this thread and the personal arguments to PMs.

[ilovecreo]

i dont want big legs just big upper body

[ooqueso]

Huh... I have always just taken a complete week off when I start feeling exhausted post workout instead of elated. I don't lift or do cardio or diet for a week (though my diet still stays pretty clean).

I always start back up by testing my new 1RMs.