Is it just maths????

[azstrengthcoach]

Magic TEF fail.

http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v.../1602564a.html

Magic TEF fail #2

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/25/4/652.full

Variances in food labels, the actual fat content of your meat, the efficacy of your measuring cup, or food scale, the deviations in a DEXA scan would account for variation very similar to TEF effect in many short duration studies.

TEF may have an effect on extreme high protein diets. Absolutely. Unquestionably a may. Chase that vs chasing calories is absurd, unnecessary, over complicating a simple calculation. It's chasing a may, fractional return.

It's nice to know barley instead of white wheat doesn't significantly effect the TEF

[EjnarKolinkar]

I'm not disputing that calories are a big component, but most experts now agree that calories in vs calories out is only part of the equation.

These, "Most experts" what is the cited net gain through TEF, meal composition, timing?

[EjnarKolinkar]

It's nice to know barley instead of white wheat doesn't significantly effect the TEF

Barely is a high fiber source, you want a study with rice?

[azstrengthcoach]

Barely is a high fiber source, you want a study with rice?

Sure like that makes a ton of difference. Pretty feeble attempt to prove TEF has no bearing, different types of wheat for breakfast

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed...598683/related

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed...181047/related

[EjnarKolinkar]

Sure like that makes a ton of difference. Pretty feeble attempt to prove TEF has no bearing, different types of wheat for breakfast

I never said it had no bearing, please don't put words in my mouth. Go read my post please.

[azstrengthcoach]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed...817850/related

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed...816768/related

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed...ogenic%20diets

[IronCharles]

Like I said, I highly doubt most men would handle themselves in this manner in the real world face to face.

Nice to know you view violence as a way to 'prove right and wrong'. Very telling about your character. But no need to worry. Pretty sure if you called me a liar to my face (instead of on the internet), I would just laugh at you and walk away.

[EjnarKolinkar]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed...817850/related

Study #1

"Weight loss (7.9 +/- 0.5 kg) and total fat loss (6.9 +/- 0.4 kg) did not differ between diet groups"

[azstrengthcoach]

Study #1

"Weight loss (7.9 +/- 0.5 kg) and total fat loss (6.9 +/- 0.4 kg) did not differ between diet groups"

CONCLUSION: Replacing carbohydrate with protein from meat, poultry, and dairy foods has beneficial metabolic effects and no adverse effects on markers of bone turnover or calcium excretion.

This study was to refute the claims these diets aren't healthy.

[EjnarKolinkar]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed...816768/related

Study #2

"Weight loss (HP diet 7.82+/-0.37 kg; SP diet 7.65+/-0.39 kg, NS) and total fat loss were not different"


Your own cited studies are proving the point, calories in calories out for weight loss.

[EjnarKolinkar]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed...ogenic%20diets

And study #3

"Weight loss (HP diet 7.82+/-0.37 kg; SP diet 7.65+/-0.39 kg, NS) and total fat loss were not different"

So as originally stated by dozens of posters, and proven by your three citations the law of thermodynamics is king of the mountain for fat loss.

As many posters have stated composing a good balanced diet with adequate macros and micros is essential while using calories to alter body mass.

Perhaps some time in the nutrition section stickies would be helpful AZ.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121703981

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=136691851

[azstrengthcoach]

Study #2

"Weight loss (HP diet 7.82+/-0.37 kg; SP diet 7.65+/-0.39 kg, NS) and total fat loss were not different"


Your own cited studies are proving the point, calories in calories out for weight loss.

Nope

[azstrengthcoach]

And study #3

"Weight loss (HP diet 7.82+/-0.37 kg; SP diet 7.65+/-0.39 kg, NS) and total fat loss were not different"

So as originally stated by dozens of posters, and proven by your three citations the law of thermodynamics is king of the mountain for fat loss.

As many posters have stated composing a good balanced diet with adequate macros and micros is essential while using calories to alter body mass.

Perhaps some time in the nutrition section stickies would be helpful AZ.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121703981

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=136691851

CONCLUSION: This study shows a clear benefit of a VLCK over LF diet for short-term body weight and fat loss, especially in men. A preferential loss of fat in the trunk region with a VLCK diet is novel and potentially clinically significant but requires further validation. These data provide additional support for the concept of metabolic advantage

[azstrengthcoach]

CONCLUSION: This study shows a clear benefit of a VLCK over LF diet for short-term body weight and fat loss, especially in men. A preferential loss of fat in the trunk region with a VLCK diet is novel and potentially clinically significant but requires further validation. These data provide additional support for the concept of metabolic advantage with diets representing extremes in macronutrient distribution.

[azstrengthcoach]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed...817850/related

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed...816768/related

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed...ogenic%20diets

CONCLUSION: Short-term high protein weight loss diets had beneficial effects on total cholesterol and triacylglycerol in overweight and obese subjects and achieved greater weight loss and better lipid results in subjects at increased risk of CVD. These observations provide further information regarding the utility of this dietary approach in effectively managing body weight and composition and reducing CVD risk in overweight and obese individuals.

[KLMARB]

Not even going to look all that up, i'm just chalking it up to my body slowing down.
Do you play a Dr in real life or just on the net?

More than ten years of research. Considering that I hit 40 weighing around 450lbs. My interest is understanding the etiology and alleviation of obesity, as it applies to the societal obesity epidemic. Since it comes down to understanding the biochemistry, and once you have a reasonable understanding of the adaptive nature of lipogenesis and lipolysis fat loss becomes easy. It's really the interface of nutritional pattern and genetics, and understanding the specific hormonal states (rising anorexigenic hormonal resistance) that induce lipogenesis. That's how I'm been able to lose well over 200lbs. of body fat and never regain an ounce, since I never allow myself to readapt back into lipogenesis.

Here's a thread that I've gone into it a little more deeply, on a conceptual basis. It also addresses the thermodynamic issue more. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=150909363

[ntrllftr]

CONCLUSION: Replacing carbohydrate with protein from meat, poultry, and dairy foods has beneficial metabolic effects and no adverse effects on markers of bone turnover or calcium excretion.

This study was to refute the claims these diets aren't healthy.

Nope

CONCLUSION: This study shows a clear benefit of a VLCK over LF diet for short-term body weight and fat loss, especially in men. A preferential loss of fat in the trunk region with a VLCK diet is novel and potentially clinically significant but requires further validation. These data provide additional support for the concept of metabolic advantage

CONCLUSION: This study shows a clear benefit of a VLCK over LF diet for short-term body weight and fat loss, especially in men. A preferential loss of fat in the trunk region with a VLCK diet is novel and potentially clinically significant but requires further validation. These data provide additional support for the concept of metabolic advantage with diets representing extremes in macronutrient distribution.

CONCLUSION: Short-term high protein weight loss diets had beneficial effects on total cholesterol and triacylglycerol in overweight and obese subjects and achieved greater weight loss and better lipid results in subjects at increased risk of CVD. These observations provide further information regarding the utility of this dietary approach in effectively managing body weight and composition and reducing CVD risk in overweight and obese individuals.

Nope!

CONCLUSION: You are a complete Jackass!

[Jedwab]

I am really stopping myself form posting this but I can't {insert devil emoticon} ...what's the simple straight answer to the original question again? Or have we established there isn't one?

[mslman71]

I am really stopping myself form posting this but I can't {insert devil emoticon} ...what's the simple straight answer to the original question again? Or have we established there isn't one?

Whack the hornets' nest again?

I'll stick to my original answer. Barring the extreme there isn't going to be much difference. In this case extreme means eating nothing but one source of calories (carbs, fats, proteins) or having some peculiar metabolic issue. If it comes down to basic weight management focus your attention on calories. The other stuff does make a little bit of a difference but for most people that difference is in the noise.

[Smelly bull]

I am really stopping myself form posting this but I can't {insert devil emoticon} ...what's the simple straight answer to the original question again? Or have we established there isn't one?

There isn't one, as usual things degenerate into a pissing match.

But we did learn that Carl is 100% azstrentghcoach is a jackass.

[induced_drag]

Nice to know you view violence as a way to 'prove right and wrong'. Very telling about your character. But no need to worry. Pretty sure if you called me a liar to my face (instead of on the internet), I would just laugh at you and walk away.

Funny bud....I never said that, but it shows that in real life you do understand the way things work. That is at least a start, but it also reveals the cowardly part of your character.

See my point was, is there is nothing wrong with a good debate and disagreement. Nothing even wrong with a heated debate. Disagreement is good....and so is an attempt at point, counterpoint.

It is when it is not a debate and takes on a certain level of disrespect over the internet. Where there is no attempt at communication, and just turn to personal attacks. (specifically in your case...you make presumptions about which you do not know) You have been one of the those guys who do the same punk things over and over. Shoot, I have lost count how many times you have brought up TRT and other things you presume I have done, most times these things have NOTING to do with the topic at hand. That tells me a lot about your character as a man.....or lack thereof. And to top it off... yes, I dont think you would do them to my face.

So there you go IronCharles.....that is how big a man you are. Hide behind your keyboard.

[racedoc]

I am really stopping myself form posting this but I can't {insert devil emoticon} ...what's the simple straight answer to the original question again? Or have we established there isn't one?

Again, I'd agree with myself, IW and iceman on page one - you're right, your husband is wrong. The rest of this thread has become more entertainment than information, IMO. Good luck with your goals, and your husband!

[IronCharles]

Funny bud....I never said that, but it shows that in real life you do understand the way things work. That is at least a start, but it also reveals the cowardly part of your character.

See my point was, is there is nothing wrong with a good debate and disagreement. Nothing even wrong with a heated debate. Disagreement is good....and so is an attempt at point, counterpoint.

It is when it is not a debate and takes on a certain level of disrespect over the internet. Where there is no attempt at communication, and just turn to personal attacks. (specifically in your case...you make presumptions about which you do not know) You have been one of the those guys who do the same punk things over and over. Shoot, I have lost count how many times you have brought up TRT and other things you presume I have done, most times these things have NOTING to do with the topic at hand. That tells me a lot about your character as a man.....or lack thereof. And to top it off... yes, I dont think you would do them to my face.

So there you go IronCharles.....that is how big a man you are. Hide behind your keyboard.

Dry your tears, bro! Sorry I hurt your feelers. If I admit what a worthless POS I am, will you promise to shut up?

[ntrllftr]

Dry your tears, bro! Sorry I hurt your feelers. If I admit what a worthless POS I am, will you promise to shut up?

Man, I used to look up to you.














Well, at my height I'm used to looking up to people. That's besides the point though.

[ArchAngel'73]

You ever just look back in a thread you posted in and wonder...


WTF just happened?

[azstrengthcoach]

These, "Most experts" what is the cited net gain through TEF, meal composition, timing?

All of the above

[azstrengthcoach]

I am really stopping myself form posting this but I can't {insert devil emoticon} ...what's the simple straight answer to the original question again? Or have we established there isn't one?

Like obesity there isn't one

[azstrengthcoach]

More than ten years of research. Considering that I hit 40 weighing around 450lbs. My interest is understanding the etiology and alleviation of obesity, as it applies to the societal obesity epidemic. Since it comes down to understanding the biochemistry, and once you have a reasonable understanding of the adaptive nature of lipogenesis and lipolysis fat loss becomes easy. It's really the interface of nutritional pattern and genetics, and understanding the specific hormonal states (rising anorexigenic hormonal resistance) that induce lipogenesis. That's how I'm been able to lose well over 200lbs. of body fat and never regain an ounce, since I never allow myself to readapt back into lipogenesis.

Here's a thread that I've gone into it a little more deeply, on a conceptual basis. It also addresses the thermodynamic issue more. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=150909363

You've summed it up well. Diet is multifactorial no diet works well for all gene types

[azstrengthcoach]

Nope!

CONCLUSION: You are a complete Jackass!

Go back to your bridge, that's a good little troll

[acrawlingchaos]

You've summed it up well. Diet is multifactorial no diet works well for all gene types

So staying in a moderate deficit won't work effectively for everyone?

I'm with IW, this is complicating a very simple procedure.




..... back to the pissing match. I can't wait to see who ends up the biggest a**hole in this thread. The suspense is killing me.