Daily Calorie Needs confusion.

[fabians94]

Okay, so my gym has a Body Comp Analyser. It even tells me my BMR. But the BMR I get from the analyser and from the Katch-McArdle formula varies.

My stats (From the Body Comp Analyser):

Weight: 66.3kg (146lbs)
Height: 171cm (5'7")
Body Fat %: 14.2
Muscle Mass: 53.9kg

The BMR the analyser gives me is: 1739
The BMR I get from the Katch-McArdle formula: 1598

I train from 2-4 days on and 1 day off. I do stable cardio on my off days instead of HIIT to reduce stress on my body. So on estimate my activity factor is:

1.6 = Moderately Active (Moderately active daily life & Moderate exercise 3-5 days a week)

So my total requirement based on the analyser is: 2782cal and based on the Katch-McArdle is: 2557cal.

My confusion is not so much based on these numbers but the thing is, based on my diet of around 1750 cal per day for the last month (My BMR before activity factor was 1663, also from the analyser), I lost 7.3% body fat and gained 2.8kg muscle mass.

Whatever it is, I still have a gut. My fat ring hasn't gone away and my confidence isn't at it's peak because of that. I'm still looking to cut while maintaining/increasing my muscle mass till I get abs and then go on a clean bulk.

This is the sample of my diet which I was on for the last month:

Sample Diet Plan (Brown Rice):
Breakfast
35g Oats: 150 cal. (5p/27c/3f)
1 tbsp Honey: 64 cal. (0p/17c/0f)
2 Scoop Iso.100: 212cal. (48p/2c/0f)
Total: 426 cal. (53p/46c/3f)

2nd Meal
1/2 Chicken Breast: 142cal. (27p/0c/3f)
1/4 cup Brown Rice: 171 cal. (3p/36c/3f)
1/2 cup Broccoli: 22 cal. (2p/4c/0f)
Total: 335 cal. (32p/40c/6f)

Post Workout:
2 Scoop Iso.100: 212 cal. (48p/2c/0f)
Total: 212 cal. (48p/2c/0f)

3rd Meal 7pm
1 Can Tuna in Water: 130 cal. (31p/0c/0f)
1/4 cup Brown Rice: 171 cal. (3p/36c/3f)
1/2 cup Broccoli: 22cal. (2p/4c/0f)
Total: 323 cal. (36p/40c/3f)

4th Meal
1/2 Chicken Breast: 142cal. (27p/0c/3f)
1/2 cup Broccoli: 22 cal. (2p/4c/0f)
Total: 164 cal. (29p/4c/3f)

5th Meal:
1 Can Tuna in Water: 130 cal. (31p/0c/0f)
1/2 cup Broccoli: 22cal. (2p/4c/0f)
Total: 152 cal. (33p/4c/0f)

6th Meal
1 scoop Casein Protein: 120 cal. (24p/3c/1f)
Total: 120 cal. (24p/3c/1f)

Total daily intake: 1732 cal. (255p/139c/16f)
62% - Protein
34% - Carbohydrates
4% - Fat

Additional References (I sometimes switch up my carbs/proteins especially when I eat out and sundays):
1 Beef Steak: 285 cal. (49p/0c/8f)
1 tbsp Extra Virgin Olive Oil: 120cal. (0p/0c/14f)
1 cup Spinach: 41 cal. (5p/7c/0f)
80g/2.8oz Whole Wheat Pasta: 260cal. (10p/50c/2f)
1 Whole Wheat Tortilla Wrap: 205cal. (5p/29c/7.5f)
1 slice Wholemeal Bread: 73 cal. (3.7p/14c/0.7f)
1 tbsp Natural Peanut Butter: 94cal. (4p/3c/8f) *NO HYDROGENATED OILS*
1 Ostrich Steak: 133cal. (24p/0c/3f)
4oz Frozen Yogurt: 120cal. (3p/18c/4f)
4 Slices Smoked Turkey Breast: 80 cal. (14p/3c/0f)..... *Sweet Potato/Yams*

Supplementation:
Dymatize Iso100
ON Casein
Xtend
OptiMen Multivitamin
Fish Oil (1000mg)
Oxy Elite Pro (Just got off my cycle a day ago) - hate the fact I have to stay away from caffeine

I know my diet's ratio is out of proportion but it worked. I'm just thinking what would be optimal? Which intake should I follow? When I start my new job, I'll be cramming my meals together just to get my macros in. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT - Corrected few typos.
EDIT - Training Regimen on post #5

[rand18m]

Why would you try to cut at 145lbs only to try to bulk? You need to get an intensive workout program and worry about building LBM, the rest will take care of itself.

[fabians94]

Why would you try to cut at 145lbs only to try to bulk? You need to get an intensive workout program and worry about building LBM, the rest will take care of itself.

I used to be a fatty. My stretch marks, saggy skin and gut is still there. I don't want to bulk and risk my gut going bigger..

[rand18m]

I used to be a fatty. My stretch marks, saggy skin and gut is still there. I don't want to bulk and risk my gut going bigger..

You are looking at this all wrong. If your BF% is too high it's not because you are overweight, it's because you don't have enough LBM, start spending as much energy learning to train properly, with the correct intensity first, then the rest will come later. You can't do all of this at once it doesn't work that way. You need to get stronger!!

[fabians94]

You are looking at this all wrong. If your BF% is too high it's not because you are overweight, it's because you don't have enough LBM, start spending as much energy learning to train properly, with the correct intensity first, then the rest will come later. You can't do all of this at once it doesn't work that way. You need to get stronger!!

This is my training routine:

Monday: Chest & Biceps

DB Incline Press 4 set (15,12,10,8 reps)
DB Flat Press 4 set (15,12,10,8 reps)
BB Bench 4 set (15,12,12,12 reps)
Incline Machine Press 4 set (15,12,10,8 reps)
Decline Machine Press 4 set (15,12,10,8 reps)
Fly Machine 4 set (15,12,10,8 reps)
Preacher curl 3 set (15,12,10 reps)
Concentration curl 3 set (15,12,10 reps)
EZ bar curl 3 set (15,12,10 reps)

Tuesday: Back

Narrow Grip Cable Pulldown 4 set (15,12,10,8)
Wide Grip Cable Pulldown 4 set (15,12,10,8)
EZ Bar Reverse Wide Grip Cable Pulldown 4 set (15,12,10,8)
BB Bent Over Row 4 set (15,12,10,8)
DB Row 4 set (15,12,12,8)
Iso Lateral Row Hammer Strength Machine 4 set (15,12,10,8)
Deadlift 4 set (15,12,10,8)
Hyperextension 3 set (15,15,15) (weighted and increased)

Wednesday: Steady Cardio (burn 500 cal)

Thursday: Shoulders & Triceps

BB Military Press 4 set: 15,12,10,8
DB Shoulder Press 4 set: 15,12,10,8
Arnold Press 4 set: 15,12,10,8
Upright Row EZ bar wide grip 4 set: 15,12,10,8
Upright Row EZ bar narrow grip 4 set: 15,12,10,8
Lateral and Front DB raise (superset, one hand at a time) 4 set: 15,12,10,8
BB Shrugs 4 set: 15,12,10,8
Tricep pushdown EZ bar cable 3 set: 15,12,10
Skull crusher 3 set: 15,12,10
Seated DB tricep extension 3 set: 15,12,10

Friday: legs

BB Squat 4 set: 15,12,10,8
Hack Squat 4 set: 15,12,10,8
Leg press 4 set: 15,12,10,10
Leg extension 4 set: 15,15,12,12
Prone leg curl 4 set: 15,12,10,8
seated leg curl 4 set: 15,12,10,8
stiffed leg deadlift 4 set: 15,12,10,8
standing calf raise machine 4 set :15,15,15,15 (increase)
calf press leg press machine (normal, inner, outer per set) 4 set: 15,15,15,15

Saturday: Steady cardio burn 500 cal

Sunday: full body

BB Bench 4 set: 15,12,10,8
BB Military press 4 set: 15,12,10,8
BB bent over row 4 set: 15,12,10,8
Deadlift 4 set: 15,12,10,8
BB Squat 4 set: 15,12,10,8

How is it? So.. based on everything what should my intake be like?

[ParsonBrown]

There are a lot of comments to be made....but I will just make one. You need fat in your diet. You have virtually none at the moment!

[fabians94]

There are a lot of comments to be made....but I will just make one. You need fat in your diet. You have virtually none at the moment!

I don't eat natural fats/fruits because I want my body to burn all the existing fat in my body right away without having to burn the fat/sugars from the natural fats/fruit sugars first.

I do take 3 caps of 1000mg Fish Oil a day..

What other comments? I want to max out and fix everything.. :s

[WonderPug]

Total daily intake: 1732 cal. (255p/139c/16f)

Your diet is acutely deficient in dietary fat and contains much more protein than is necessary. And I can't understand why you would divide 1,732 calories into six meals. Additionally, you seem to be taking lots supplements because you've fallen for silly ads. Lastly, your diet contains a hazardous amount of tuna.

I don't eat natural fats/fruits because I want my body to burn all the existing fat in my body right away without having to burn the fat/sugars from the natural fats/fruit sugars first.

That makes absolutely no sense.

You clearly don't know even the most basic aspects of nutrition and thus I urge you to read:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post436716771
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=136691851

[ParsonBrown]

I don't eat natural fats/fruits because I want my body to burn all the existing fat in my body right away without having to burn the fat/sugars from the natural fats/fruit sugars first.

I do take 3 caps of 1000mg Fish Oil a day..

What other comments? I want to max out and fix everything.. :s

You need fat in your diet...about .45g per lb body weight minimum....just to support hormone/testosterone regulation and production. Without fat in your diet you can experience depression...low energy...and other problems. Cutting fat and fruit out of your diet has NOTHING to do with your body burning fat!

Other comments: You need to eat more. You are 17 and growing! Personal opinion - you need to be doing compound exercises with a barbell primarily with accesory work being secondary...i.e. Bench, Squat, Deadlift, Press, pullups.

[Jen0va]

Hey OP you should really listen to these guys. I too deal with the struggle of used-to-be-fat body issues (physical and mental). Gaining some lean body mass through recomposition and proper diet will improve your situation and the way you feel about it. Please don't let preconcieved notions of dietary fat and carbs get in the way as I did for so long. Generally speaking, they're quite false.

[fabians94]

Your diet is acutely deficient in dietary fat and contains much more protein than is necessary. And I can't understand why you would divide 1,732 calories into six meals. Additionally, you seem to be taking lots supplements because you've fallen for silly ads. Lastly, your diet contains a hazardous amount of tuna.


That makes absolutely no sense.

Mostly because I can't stuff 2 portions of my carbs and proteins in one meal.

I have to rethink my diet based on "If you KNOW your bodyfat = 1-1.5g per pound LEAN weight" for my protein, High bodyfat: 1-2g fat/ LEAN weight [between 0.45 - 1g LEAN weight/ pounds] for my fats and moderately active: 4.5 - 6.5 g/ kg (about 2 - 3g/ pound) for my fats.

I've actually read the threads not thoroughly though.. but based on my results I was overwhelmed with the purpose of the micro detailed discussion. Now I know.

Also, does the time I consume carbohydrates matter in my case? I try to keep my carb intake only before 6-7pm.

What's wrong with my supplementation stack? Okay, I've heard that all I need is Whey, Fish Oil and a Multivitamin, but what isn't necessary in my stack? I put a lot of thought and consideration before purchasing them.

[WonderPug]

^ You need to read the stickies linked to above as you're epically confused about nutrition.

[fabians94]

You need fat in your diet...about .45g per lb body weight minimum....just to support hormone/testosterone regulation and production. Without fat in your diet you can experience depression...low energy...and other problems. Cutting fat and fruit out of your diet has NOTHING to do with your body burning fat!

Other comments: You need to eat more. You are 17 and growing! Personal opinion - you need to be doing compound exercises with a barbell primarily with accesory work being secondary...i.e. Bench, Squat, Deadlift, Press, pullups.

I deadlift 3 times a week, I bench twice a week, I squat twice a week but I can't do a pull up.

[fabians94]

^ You need to read the stickies linked to above as you're epically confused about nutrition.

I don't understand, I've read it before making this the third time. What am I saying that's wrong about nutrition?

[ParsonBrown]

What am I saying that's wrong about nutrition?

~1700 calories/day is wrong.
Avoiding fat in your diet is wrong.
Saying you need whey/fish oil/multi is wrong.

@ 17 the formulas may not be accurate for you in figuring out your calorie needs. But you need need to eat a balanced diet that will allow you to finish growing...and probably gain weight.

[fabians94]

~1700 calories/day is wrong.
Avoiding fat in your diet is wrong.
Saying you need whey/fish oil/multi is wrong.

@ 17 the formulas may not be accurate for you in figuring out your calorie needs. But you need need to eat a balanced diet that will allow you to finish growing...and probably gain weight.

Wonderpug mentioned that I fell for silly ads that caused me to buy my supplements. What's wrong with my supplements?

[ParsonBrown]

Wonderpug mentioned that I fell for silly ads that caused me to buy my supplements. What's wrong with my supplements?

It's not that there is something wrong with them per se...although the OptiMen vitamin is garbage....you spent probably $100's on something that will not impact your body composition. They are not necessary. Everything you take can be gotten through your diet.

[WonderPug]

Wonderpug mentioned that I fell for silly ads that caused me to buy my supplements. What's wrong with my supplements?

You're consuming two different types of protein supplements and a FFBCAA supplement and your diet contains about twice the amount of protein necessary. Now do you see the issue?

[examorph]

You're consuming two different types of protein supplements and a FFBCAA supplement and your diet contains about twice the amount of protein necessary. Now do you see the issue?

Wonderpug, you are the man who can answer this because you are a EXPERT!
Since you say insulin spike does not cause fat gain and since extra protein in the body just turns to glucose (myth or fact?) does this mean that there is no harm in overeating on protein aslong as your other macros are in place, example switching some carbs for protein since the protein will become glucose anyways?

[fabians94]

How about this for a revised diet?

I'll be cutting out some of my supplements, thanks for the help guys.

Breakfast 10am
35g Oats: 150 cal. (5p/27c/3f)
1 tbsp Honey: 64 cal. (0p/17c/0f)
1.5 Scoop Iso.100: 159 cal. (36p/1.5c/0f)
250ml low fat milk (dutch lady): 120 cal. (9p/26c/8f)
1 tbsp Peanut butter: 100cal. (4p/3c/7.5f)
Total: 593 cal. (53p/74.5c/18.5f)

2nd Meal 2 pm
1/2 Chicken Breast: 142cal. (27p/0c/3f)
1/4 cup Brown Rice: 171 cal. (3p/36c/3f)
1/2 cup Broccoli: 22 cal. (2p/4c/0f)
Total: 335 cal. (32p/40c/6f)

Post Workout:
1.5 Scoop Iso.100: 159 cal. (36p/1.5c/0f)
12oz Low fat milk (dutch lady): 160cal. (12p/35c/12f)
Total: 319 cal. (36p/1.5c/12f)

3rd Meal 6pm
1 Can Tuna in Water: 130 cal. (31p/0c/0f)
1/4 cup Brown Rice: 171 cal. (3p/36c/3f)
1/2 cup Broccoli: 22cal. (2p/4c/0f)
1 Green Apple: 36cal (19c)
Total: 359 cal. (36p/59c/3f)

4th Meal 10pm
1oz Almonds: 163cal (6p/6c/14f)
2 tbsp Steffi Peanut butter: 200cal. (8p/6c/15f)
2 slice Wholemeal Bread: 146 cal. (7.4p/28c/1.4f)
Total: 509cal. (17.4p/10c/30.4f)

5th Meal 1am
1 scoop Casein Protein: 120 cal. (24p/3c/1f)
250ml low fat milk (dutch lady): 120 cal. (9p/26c/8f)
Total: 120 cal. (33p/29c/9f)

Total Daily: 2355cal
Protein: 207.4g
Carbohydrates: 214g
Fats: 78.9g

P:T:C Ratio = 42:43:15

146lbs
1.42g Protein per pound
0.67g Fat per muscle mass (in lbs)

[examorph]

Why so many meals, do you prefer it to eating 3 meals a day, because meal frequency/timing is irelevant.
Why the casein before bed, I used to think this was needed before I started researching, you dont go catabolic over night.
Taking a PWO shake is not necesary, like wonderpug has said to many in the past, you could drink water PWO and still get the same results.
Are you finding it hard to eat all the food and that is why you are taking the supplements? Because I have seen bodybuilders only take 1 scoop of whey if they are low on protein a day and they still grow, suplements are there to suplement, if you could get whole foods in instead it would be better.

I used to belive all these myths too until I just stoped doing them all and still grew at the same speed.

EDIT: Also, why do you prefer doing your own workout routine rather than proven rioutines that have worked for many others such as AllPros - A Simple Beginner Routine or Rippetoes Starting Strength.

[fabians94]

Why so many meals, do you prefer it to eating 3 meals a day, because meal frequency/timing is irelevant.
Why the casein before bed, I used to think this was needed before I started researching, you dont go catabolic over night.
Taking a PWO shake is not necesary, like wonderpug has said to many in the past, you could drink water PWO and still get the same results.
Are you finding it hard to eat all the food and that is why you are taking the supplements? Because I have seen bodybuilders only take 1 scoop of whey if they are low on protein a day and they still grow, suplements are there to suplement, if you could get whole foods in instead it would be better.

I used to belive all these myths too until I just stoped doing them all and still grew at the same speed.

EDIT: Also, why do you prefer doing your own workout routine rather than proven rioutines that have worked for many others such as AllPros - A Simple Beginner Routine or Rippetoes Starting Strength.

I'm not sure how to get all my calories in 3 meals a day.. I probably have to once I get a job again.

Are you sure about the overnight thing? Won't it be beneficial if I had a steady stream throughout bedtime?

[examorph]

Well, I used to take it before bed and I have stopped and see no difference, I was told to by people on this forum, if you want to know the science behind it I am sure WonderPug will tell you but all I know is that it is a myth and it doesnt make any difference to my gains.

[fabians94]

Well, I used to take it before bed and I have stopped and see no difference, I was told to by people on this forum, if you want to know the science behind it I am sure WonderPug will tell you but all I know is that it is a myth and it doesnt make any difference to my gains.

I'll be taking into account about what you have said about Casein & Xtend.

About OptiMen, is it really garbage?

About my workout routine, it's because I want to develop my muscles and have an even symmetry. There's nothing wrong with my workout right? Will I not be getting results?

EDIT: I know the beginning routine is proven and good but, I've been getting results with my current one. Is it not good enough?

[examorph]

EDIT: I know the beginning routine is proven and good but, I've been getting results with my current one. Is it not good enough?

If you are geting results and it works for you that is great, keep going with it but if you want you could try a proven program, this is usualy recomended because beginners tend to think...I want big arms and a big chest...thats it, I dont care about legs and back...so off they go to the gym benching 3x a week and bb curls 5x a week and tricep work, totaly neglecting large muscle groups like the back and legs, this causes them to overtrain and get very little results maybe even loose strength and muscle, the beginners routines are set so they build you up evenly and get you on the right tracks, if you have a tiny back you wont have a big chest thats what beginners dont realise also the amount a person grows when doing lifts like deadlifts and squats is amazing, why do 1 muscle group when you can do many at the same time and get better benefits like increased test from the big lifts...think..why would you spend 1 hour in the gym doing triceps and flys when you could do bench press in 10 mins and get better results?

Conclusion: beginners routines are great because you know they work...if they dont work you can look like factors like your diet but when you make your own routine and it doesnt work it could be anything from diet to workout, but if you say you are geting results and you are happy you should continue.
I know all this information because I was a curl monkey before I started learning about bodybuilding and trust me curling 3x a week does nothing for your arms like a row and deadlift does.