Insulin Spike?

[putrix]

Hey guys,

Was just wondering... Is it only post workout that you achieve an insulin spike (for the purpose of increasing muscles' absorption of nutrients) by eating a high glycemic carb like a banana, etc? Or can you induce the spike even non-PWO? I guess basically I am wondering whether I should make sure to have a high glycemic carb before having my protein shake even on off days...

[Kmullins05]

Hey guys,

Was just wondering... Is it only post workout that you achieve an insulin spike (for the purpose of increasing muscles' absorption of nutrients) by eating a high glycemic carb like a banana, etc? Or can you induce the spike even non-PWO? I guess basically I am wondering whether I should make sure to have a high glycemic carb before having my protein shake even on off days...

You CAN initiate an insulin spike anytime you consume a high glycemic carbohydrate. However, it is most beneficial to have it post-workout to increase amino acid uptake, and glycogen re-synthesis in muscle cells.

It is not recommended to purposely spike one's insulin any other time, because unused glucose circulating throughout the blood will deposit indiscriminantly among body tissues. Including adipose cells that are both internal and subcutaneous. In fact, it is highly probable that the glucose will store as fat, and not be converted to glycogen by the liver because of the lack of need.

Only consume high carbs surrounding your workout, or in the AM to jump start metabolic actions.

[putrix]

You CAN initiate an insulin spike anytime you consume a high glycemic carbohydrate. However, it is most beneficial to have it post-workout to increase amino acid uptake, and glycogen re-synthesis in muscle cells.

It is not recommended to purposely spike one's insulin any other time, because unused glucose circulating throughout the blood will deposit indiscriminantly among body tissues. Including adipose cells that are both internal and subcutaneous. In fact, it is highly probable that the glucose will store as fat, and not be converted to glycogen by the liver because of the lack of need.

Only consume high carbs surrounding your workout, or in the AM to jump start metabolic actions.

So on off days when I don't workout, I ought to just have my protein shake on its own? When would be the best time to have it? Or it doesn't really matter?

Should I even have protein shake on off days in the first place? (Sorry if it sounds noobish. Sincere inquiry...)

[Kmullins05]

Consume your shake either

In the Morning when you wake, before breakfast (maximize uptake)

During the day to replace a snack food that would not help you reach your goals

Or if it is casein protein, an hour before bed so that you have amino acids in your bloodstream while you sleep.

[rhizome]

You CAN initiate an insulin spike anytime you consume a high glycemic carbohydrate. However, it is most beneficial to have it post-workout to increase amino acid uptake, and glycogen re-synthesis in muscle cells.

It is not recommended to purposely spike one's insulin any other time, because unused glucose circulating throughout the blood will deposit indiscriminantly among body tissues. Including adipose cells that are both internal and subcutaneous. In fact, it is highly probable that the glucose will store as fat, and not be converted to glycogen by the liver because of the lack of need.

Only consume high carbs surrounding your workout, or in the AM to jump start metabolic actions.

Lots of BROscience in this post. First off, WTF is an "insulin spike". Gimme some numbers. Secondly, de novo lipogenesis (that's turning carbs into fat pinhead) IS NOT A SIGNIFICANT FATE of carbohydrates. You have to eat a massive amount of carbs.

Please educate yourself before flapping your lips. Thanks.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...e-get-fat.html

You DO NOT need high glycemic carbs in the morning either.

[Kmullins05]

Lots of BROscience in this post. First off, WTF is an "insulin spike". Gimme some numbers. Secondly, de novo lipogenesis (that's turning carbs into fat pinhead) IS NOT A SIGNIFICANT FATE of carbohydrates. You have to eat a massive amount of carbs.

Please educate yourself before flapping your lips. Thanks.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...e-get-fat.html

You DO NOT need high glycemic carbs in the morning either.

Its not bro-science.

Its fact, an insulin spike is anytime the glycemic value of a carbohydrate requires insulin to increase the uptake of glucose into tissues...However, if one is sedentary, as in not-working out...then carbs likely will store as subcutaneous adipose.

We can go all day brother...lets play science.

[AlphaTauMuscle]

Lots of BROscience in this post. First off, WTF is an "insulin spike". Gimme some numbers. Secondly, de novo lipogenesis (that's turning carbs into fat pinhead) IS NOT A SIGNIFICANT FATE of carbohydrates. You have to eat a massive amount of carbs.

Please educate yourself before flapping your lips. Thanks.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...e-get-fat.html

You DO NOT need high glycemic carbs in the morning either.

ty sir

[Kmullins05]

Lots of BROscience in this post. First off, WTF is an "insulin spike". Gimme some numbers. Secondly, de novo lipogenesis (that's turning carbs into fat pinhead) IS NOT A SIGNIFICANT FATE of carbohydrates. You have to eat a massive amount of carbs.

Please educate yourself before flapping your lips. Thanks.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...e-get-fat.html

You DO NOT need high glycemic carbs in the morning either.

Its not broscience...by the way..when you know something.

Are you mad someone is more intelligent than you?

Any self respecting nutritionist, trainer, or fitness consultant is going understand carb manipulation for amino acid transport. Hell, its the scientific basis behind mixing your protein shake with carbs.

[rhizome]

Its not bro-science.

Its fact, an insulin spike is anytime the glycemic value of a carbohydrate requires insulin to increase the uptake of glucose into tissues...However, if one is sedentary, as in not-working out...then carbs likely will store as subcutaneous adipose.

We can go all day brother...lets play science.

Bull****. Even with MASSIVE carbohydrate feeding, only 20% ends up as fat. VERY VERY LITTLE does with normal carbohydrate consumption. Take your mail order eduation and GTFO. I will mop with floor with you

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/co...ull/286/4/E577

[Kmullins05]

Bull****. Even with MASSIVE carbohydrate feeding, only 20% ends up as fat. VERY VERY LITTLE does with normal carbohydrate consumption. Take your mail order eduation and GTFO. I will mop with floor with you

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/co...ull/286/4/E577

That's why sugary drinks are one of the highest factors in obesity....because carbs don't convert to fat.

Thats why ACSM recommends carb consumption to end at dinner, which should consist mostly of fibrous carbs anyway to prevent any glycemic response.

Mail order education? I graduated with honors from one of the highest respected universities in America. A top 5 kinesiology program as well I might add. Last time I checked i didn't need the mail for that.

Keep up the insults...it shows your level of intelligence, anyone who results to personal insults is protecting a lack of intellectual ability.

[rhizome]

That's why sugary drinks are one of the highest factors in obesity....because carbs don't convert to fat.

Thats why ACSM recommends carb consumption to end at dinner, which should consist mostly of fibrous carbs anyway to prevent any glycemic response.

Mail order education? I graduated with honors from one of the highest respected universities in America. A top 5 kinesiology program as well I might add. Last time I checked i didn't need the mail for that.

Keep up the insults...it shows your level of intelligence, anyone who results to personal insults is protecting a lack of intellectual ability.

It's called calorie intake is over maintenace dumbass. More dietary fat is stored and more of the carbs are burned. You can insert any food item to bring you over maintenance and get fat. don;t matter if it's gatorade or a ****ing dunkin' doughnut Obviously you slept through advanced nutrition. You can drink sugary drinks and be in a caloric deficit and NOT GET FAT. Not rocket science but it seems you don't have any clue.

[Kmullins05]

It's called calorie intake is over maintenace dumbass. More dietary fat is stored and more of the carbs are burned. You can insert any food item to bring you over maintenance and get fat. don;t matter if it's gatorade or a ****ing dunkin' doughnut Obviously you slept through advanced nutrition. You can drink sugary drinks and be in a caloric deficit and NOT GET FAT. Not rocket science but it seems you don't have any clue.

Once again with the insults...its impressive. You are getting awful frustrated...Is it because I'm 14 years younger with just as much knowledge; if not more...then you?

See now...if the OP is doing the right thing...he should be eating above maintenance anyway in order to put on muscle mass (which is the whole reason anyone would care about a post-workout insulin spike)...and thus, any additional carbohydrate calories are going to store as fat. Because they are above maintenance, and not protein, which is more molecular-resistant to lipogenesis due to the body's numerous uses for aminos.

And I did quite well in advanced nutrition, for the record. I also noticed the part about unused glucose stores as fat regardless of deficit. Glycogen stores in the muscles would probably be full, or close to full on an off-day of training, and the liver is usually near full unless in the case of extreme endurance training. And thus, glycogenesis, or gluconeogenesis is completely unneeded, and thus lipogenesis would begin.

[joakman]

In the blue corner, a 21 year old know it all that just got his BS one month ago with a CPT from ISSA

And in the red corner.. ah f*ck it..

rhizome, please continue posting, thank you

[AlphaTauMuscle]

In the blue corner, a 21 year old know it all that just got his BS one month ago with a CPT from ISSA

And in the red corner.. ah f*ck it..

rhizome, please continue posting, thank you

when did you quit being a mod?

[joakman]

when did you quit being a mod?

When I got the opportunity of a lifetime

[AlphaTauMuscle]

When I got the opportunity of a lifetime

not a bad company to rep for. Welcome to being a mortal again

[XCriticalBenchX]

You can do it anytime, but you will gain alot of fat IMO.

[rhizome]

Once again with the insults...its impressive. You are getting awful frustrated...Is it because I'm 14 years younger with just as much knowledge; if not more...then you?

See now...if the OP is doing the right thing...he should be eating above maintenance anyway in order to put on muscle mass (which is the whole reason anyone would care about a post-workout insulin spike)...and thus, any additional carbohydrate calories are going to store as fat. Because they are above maintenance, and not protein, which is more molecular-resistant to lipogenesis due to the body's numerous uses for aminos.

And I did quite well in advanced nutrition, for the record. I also noticed the part about unused glucose stores as fat regardless of deficit. Glycogen stores in the muscles would probably be full, or close to full on an off-day of training, and the liver is usually near full unless in the case of extreme endurance training. And thus, glycogenesis, or gluconeogenesis is completely unneeded, and thus lipogenesis would begin.

Physiology degree >>>> pussy Kinesiology degree

I'm frustrated that you're a moron. But you know what? I really don't give a **** if you want to continue to be an ignoramus living in your little fantasy land. But if you feel like coming here spewing bull****, I'm gonna call you out on it

Fact remains, DNL is very insignificant in active folks eating a moderate amount of carbohydrate. I've presented only the iceburg of science you you have presented, well, only your BROscience

[Kmullins05]

In the blue corner, a 21 year old know it all that just got his BS one month ago with a CPT from ISSA

And in the red corner.. ah f*ck it..

rhizome, please continue posting, thank you

I don't claim to be a know it all. Not at all actually. I try to learn as much as possible. But I believe I answered the OPs question very thoroughly and correctly.

I only battled with rhizome because to me he is just a person without a face calling me out and providing what I feel is basic information. Anyone worth their salt understands caloric balance and maintenance BMR..etc. However, the phenomena knows as mass insulin release is real, as is manipulated by many top pro's in both bodybuilding and conventional sport. My short stint with John Philbin, head strength training of the Washington Nationals, taught me such.

I think for a 21 year old I'm ahead of the curve because of my sponge-like nature and desire to be better. And for the record, its not about corners, I'm not posting to get in E-battles, hence my lack of personal attacks to him even as he persisted in the name calling as though this were a 5th grade playground and he wanted to defend the monkey bars.

I'm all for someone correcting me with information that is either added onto my information, or is, as one would say, academically appropriate critique of my information. Calling me names and providing one link is not sufficient in a debate, court of law, or anywhere else, and thus it should not be the law of the land on this forums.

[IronTerminator]

Physiology degree >>>> pussy Kinesiology degree

I'm frustrated that you're a moron. But you know what? I really don't give a **** if you want to continue to be an ignoramus living in your little fantasy land. But if you feel like coming here spewing bull****, I'm gonna call you out on it

Fact remains, DNL is very insignificant in active folks eating a moderate amount of carbohydrate. I've presented only the iceburg of science you you have presented, well, only your BROscience

BAM! Rhizome breaking out the facts.

[joakman]

I don't claim to be a know it all. Not at all actually. I try to learn as much as possible. But I believe I answered the OPs question very thoroughly and correctly.

I only battled with rhizome because to me he is just a person without a face calling me out and providing what I feel is basic information. Anyone worth their salt understands caloric balance and maintenance BMR..etc. However, the phenomena knows as mass insulin release is real, as is manipulated by many top pro's in both bodybuilding and conventional sport. My short stint with John Philbin, head strength training of the Washington Nationals, taught me such.

I think for a 21 year old I'm ahead of the curve because of my sponge-like nature and desire to be better. And for the record, its not about corners, I'm not posting to get in E-battles, hence my lack of personal attacks to him even as he persisted in the name calling as though this were a 5th grade playground and he wanted to defend the monkey bars.

I'm all for someone correcting me with information that is either added onto my information, or is, as one would say, academically appropriate critique of my information. Calling me names and providing one link is not sufficient in a debate, court of law, or anywhere else, and thus it should not be the law of the land on this forums.

From one who trains athletes, don't listen to trainers when it comes to bodybuilding and nutrition. Completely different worlds.

[Kmullins05]

BAM! Rhizome breaking out the facts.

Stop siding with someone with a mass amount of rep points. It is redundant and pathetic.

[Kmullins05]

From one who trains athletes, don't listen to trainers when it comes to bodybuilding and nutrition. Completely different worlds.

Agreed.....
Very different worlds, but the subjects are still the same once you break it down to the molecular and physiological level. If anything, pro athletes can afford to have high glycemic carbs on off days because their physique is not their bread-winner, but their performance. However, on a bodybuilding forum it is wise to caution one to avoid such carbs on off days as to not detriment their physique.....

[Kmullins05]

Physiology degree >>>> pussy Kinesiology degree

I'm frustrated that you're a moron. But you know what? I really don't give a **** if you want to continue to be an ignoramus living in your little fantasy land. But if you feel like coming here spewing bull****, I'm gonna call you out on it

Fact remains, DNL is very insignificant in active folks eating a moderate amount of carbohydrate. I've presented only the iceburg of science you you have presented, well, only your BROscience

No degree is better than another if you don't maximize its potential.

Let me ask you something, do you enjoy cursing and acting like an ignorant ass with your typing fingers? I'm the 21 year old, and yet, I'm handling this debate much more maturely then you, and its sad. Because at 35 you should be far beyond the phase of calling someone names and critiquing their personal lives as a way of handling an confrontation.

Your not providing me any reason why I should be bowing to your never-relenting fountain of knowledge and correctness...and so, I'm not going to back down. Maybe if you had more to your profile than your age I'd be able to respect you more. Your able to say things about my personal existence I put them out there; yet, yours is hidden.....

[johnny4125]

If all that matters is calorie in vs calorie out what the hell would you look like if you drank 2k calories worth of coke every day and thats all???

[Fitzwell]

If all that matters is calorie in vs calorie out what the hell would you look like if you drank 2k worth of coke every day and thats all???

Feel free to actually read links posted....

And now I’ll answer the question that I know every person who has read (and hopefully understood) the above is asking: so if carbs and protein are rarely converted to and stored as fat, and make you fat by decreasing fat oxidation and causing all ingested dietary fat to get stored as fat, can’t I eat as much as I want of protein and carbs so long as my dietary fat intake is zero?

And the asnswer is still no. Remember how I teased you above with one other exception, when carbs are converted to fat for storage? That exception is when dietary fat is below about 10% of total daily calories. Under that condition, the body ramps up de novo lipogenesis. So you still get fat.

Because the body is usually smarter than we are. Under conditions where dietary fat intake is ‘adequate’ (meaning 10% of total calories or more), the primary fate of that fat is storage and protein and carbs are used for other things. And when dietary fat is too low, the body will start converting ingested carbs (and probably protein, though it would still be rare) to fat for storage.

[Kmullins05]

Feel free to actually read links posted....

And except for those who are ON POINT pre competition...no one has fats as less then 10% of their daily diet. And most of the information in that article seems to be more propaganda than science. It is as if it attempts to go against conventional science in order to draw attention.

Here are some sources from me

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/po...lin_spikes.htm

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/sclark47.htm

[joakman]

And except for those who are ON POINT pre competition...no one has fats as less then 10% of their daily diet. And most of the information in that article seems to be more propaganda than science. It is as if it attempts to go against conventional science in order to draw attention.

Here are some sources from me

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/po...lin_spikes.htm

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/sclark47.htm

Please stop while you are ahead of yourself.

[RatherBeLifting]

And except for those who are ON POINT pre competition...no one has fats as less then 10% of their daily diet. And most of the information in that article seems to be more propaganda than science. It is as if it attempts to go against conventional science in order to draw attention.

Here are some sources from me

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/po...lin_spikes.htm

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/sclark47.htm

This should go well for you.

[Fitzwell]

And except for those who are ON POINT pre competition...no one has fats as less then 10% of their daily diet. And most of the information in that article seems to be more propaganda than science. It is as if it attempts to go against conventional science in order to draw attention.

Here are some sources from me

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/po...lin_spikes.htm

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/sclark47.htm

excuse me if I choose to listen to Lyle McDonald over some random chick, most those bb.com articles are outdated and unfounded.