dvv's Summer Cutting Advice Thread (serious)

[user34566548717114]

I've gotten alot of PM's asking for cutting advice for summer and I promised to put up a thread answering questions.


Post your questions here, I may not respond right away because I have lab meetings today but I will answer them.

[GApump]

what's your cut diet of preference and daily macros? (softball question)

[caj]

Anytime I cut, I always end up not eating enough. What's the best way to determine how many calories you need? Should the calories be based on your current weight or your target weight?

[KennyK]

you do keto or anything close?

[user34566548717114]

what's your cut diet of preference and daily macros? (softball question)

This is actually a more complex question then most people like to admit. Simply put everyone is different.

Right now my philosophy is based on hormone regulation as well all know our hormone system works similar to a light switch. Its catabolic or anabolic, but being both at the same time would = a futile cycle which evolution has done its best to make us avoid.

That being said my split really depends on my current bodyfat state, I notice that I have no problem staying around 9-10% but to get learner it requires more tweaking. Your body is excellent at adapting so you don't want to "sell out" too quickly which I find is a common mistake.

Inititally I start with ~3000 calories a day (use fitday.com to track).
My macros break down to be ~40/40/20 although I have a large bit of error during this phase. However, my attempt during this phase is to break the bulking habit of eating pretty much whatever I want, I just attempt to eat enough clean food to satisfy me. Overdieting is a HUGE mistake too early on.

When cutting progress has ceased or significantly slowed I will drop my calories to ~2500. I maintain a similar ratio but I attempt to really time my simple carb intake to only after workouts (gatorade powder + protein PW shake).

Usually sticking to that gets me to that 7-8% range which I am pretty happy at. Dropping below that requires me to really drop out the carbs and cut calories to 2000-2300. The only time I eat any starchy or simple carbs at that point is after workouts. So I would say at this point my macros are around 50/20/30 I up my protein and fat intake a bit (esp saturated fat). Steak is a great source of sat fat + protein IMO.

Again everyone is different I would look at your current diet break it down and figure out if you are currently gaining weight or losing. Then look at what simple carbs you can remove first. Sometimes cutting out 200-300 calories of crap carbs is really all you need.

It takes a bit of time to figure out what works best for you. Remember you want to phase into your max cutting diet thats prob the most important point I can make. Your body is VERY good at adapting so if you shock it you may get quicker initial results but your self discipline will be highly tested and I really think it effects you in a negative way in the gym.

Clean up your diet first before you slaughter total calories and see what that does for you for 2 weeks then start working backwards.

[user34566548717114]

Anytime I cut, I always end up not eating enough. What's the best way to determine how many calories you need? Should the calories be based on your current weight or your target weight?

An oldschool poster named ROB brought to my attention the rest only briefly approach and also an intresting idea that you should base your calorie needs on your target weight. Again clean eating was a staple behind his concepts but I did think it was interesting.

Personally I like to work backwards and look at your current state and really breakdown what your doing. Its like designing an experiment you want to change as few variables as possible at a time. I always start with similar calories but cleanup my diet. Then I lower my carbs and increase my protein. Finally I start to slash total calories. I give each phase a chance to work then look at its progress. It takes alot of discipline but I've noticed better results then just pulling the trigger and going all out.

[caj]

I always start with similar calories but cleanup my diet. Then I lower my carbs and increase my protein. Finally I start to slash total calories. I give each phase a chance to work then look at its progress. It takes alot of discipline but I've noticed better results then just pulling the trigger and going all out.

This sounds like it would work good for me. I usually crash and burn, but this is a smart way to do it.

Thanks, man. Always good talking to you.

[user34566548717114]

you do keto or anything close?

I drop my total carbs but not enough to induce ketosis or at least prolonged ketosis. I understand the underlying philosophy with ketosis and that is you enter a protein sparing phase after 2 weeks or so. However, I believe insulin plays a cruical role in maintaining and building lean mass, on keto insulin levels drop significantly, to spare whatever glucose you produce via gluconeogenesis for the brain. Thus with low levels of insulin muscles have a hard time uptaking protein. Add the trama of weight training and even tho you may spare protein I fail to see how your body repairs damage done.

If someone has studies that say otherwise I'd love to look at them.

So currently I am against prolonged ketosis, however, using a program to cycle it I see no problem with, I know a few people who do comps and use a plan like that with great results. However, they phase into it and only use it once they are already fairly lean.

[GApump]

do you find that being hungry is a necessary part of cutting? I've heard differing opinions on this and personally I find that on some days my hunger is absolutely insatiable even when I'm taking in my desired caloric deficit, this could be from the low carbs though.

[user34566548717114]

This sounds like it would work good for me. I usually crash and burn, but this is a smart way to do it.

Thanks, man. Always good talking to you.

Yeah I'd argue that most cuts fail due to mental reasons not physical.

Dieting too hard is a mistake, it can trigger binge eating due to dopamine release.

The initial phase of your cut should ALMOST look like a very clean bulk. Keep your hunger satisifed and work on your self control to avoid high GI carbs.

[user34566548717114]

do you find that being hungry is a necessary part of cutting? I've heard differing opinions on this and personally I find that on some days my hunger is absolutely insatiable even when I'm taking in my desired caloric deficit, this could be from the low carbs though.

IMO it depends on how lean you want to be. If your going for like 5% bodyfat then I think you will be hardpressed to find many people who say they are never hungry cutting to that extreme and level. However, if 10-12% is your goal then you don't need to kill yourself esp to maintain.

Cutting is far from easy but I think phasing into it helps control your hunger response. Low carbs is prob a high reason for failure, because as you deplete your brain lowers dopamine levels (bad moods). Once you intake simple carbs you get a dopamine surge which causes a cascade effect where all you want to do is eat more (binge eating). Its like any addiction, if your progress is going well right now then you may want to up your total carbs. Again try to eat simple carbs directly after a workout.

Personally I notice I get hungry right after my postworkout shake and I think its due to the insulin spike which causes hypoglycemia (low blood sugar). However, after an hour or so I notice the hunger starts to fade although I like to eat within 60 minutes after to maintain my anabolic window.

[Naix]

After you cut, do you find it's better to wear short shorts or spandex?

[user34566548717114]

After you cut, do you find it's better to wear short shorts or spandex?

I do not wear short shorts ever.


By spandex I assume you mean under armour which I only wear UNDER things like pads or my shorts.

[GApump]

Do you utilize any fat burners? I've tried a few over the years and have pretty much been disappointed with their value every time, and I'm not one of those people that expects it to melt an extra 2 lbs of fat a week.

[user34566548717114]

Do you utilize any fat burners? I've tried a few over the years and have pretty much been disappointed with their value every time, and I'm not one of those people that expects it to melt an extra 2 lbs of fat a week.

Ah the good ol fat burners.

Heres my honest take on them.

Thyroid boosters (T3-T4) = I would never use most people can't even read a blood test. Using an agent like this requires constant monitering esp if your taking a large dose. Most of the stuff in supp stores is utter crap and the real stuff is just that REAL. Lotta research and alot of effort must be put in to use an agent like this.

Metabolic Boosters (dnp) = uncoupler agents work plain and simple. However, they are not without there side effects and most are illegal (or at least illegal for human use). Thus getting accurate amounts is a challenge unless you know a chem student who you can throw 50 bucks to to GCMS your sample and break down whats the real amount. Again requires alot of research + effort, so I'm not one to mess with these.

Adrenergic Agonists = Some people argue the metabolic boost is significant on these its really not compared to something like DNP. Most of the positive effects is due to hunger suppression + increased energy so you get off your a$$ and actually go out and do things. However, not all adrenergic agonists are equal. Something like synephrine which is an isomer of a selective alpha 1 agonist is a supp companies quick fix to the ephedra ban. Something like ephedrine has been more tried and true. An agent like clenbuterol has selective beta effects (most beta 2) but also has some unknown anabolic effects, so you have to really research what you plan on taking.


Also remember no matter what anybody tells you drugs always cause a "kick back" response. When you shift equilibrium in your body something to negatively influence the change will start to occur. With adrenergic agents downregulation of Beta1 + Beta2 + Alpha1, plus increased Alpha 2 (which causes inactivation of synaptic release of nor-epi and other neurotrasmitters is observed. Now google masters LOVE to argue that beta 3 isn't downregulated because it lacks a phos site so B-arrestin cannot bind it and thus cannot clatherin coat and downregulated it. But its more complex then that your body has MANY feedback pathways most of which are not understood in any detail.


Bottom line is this:

I use fat burners (NO-Shotgun) earlier in my cut to maintain lean mass and increase my energy. Later I use ephedrine and caffeine before my workouts. I am not going to argue ethics and say do or don't.

I will state however, to PHASE drugs if you choose to use them, ease into them and make sure you lower your dose as you cycle off then give your body a fair amount of time to recover. I use ephedrine for perhaps 5 weeks on then 3-5 weeks off and only once every 5 days of the week or so.

The smaller the amount of a drug you can use for a goal the better off you are. Use stims to help your workouts you will get better results then using them just to try and kill your hunger.

Any drug that causes a physiologic change in the body will be met with resistance if someone argues that "this drug has NO side effects and can be used forever" I simply assume they are a moron.

Make sure you get blood tests every 6 months even with normal supps you never can be sure of the purity level. If you live enzyme levels go up discountinue use right away and retest in a month.

[cupcakekid]

i plan on switching things up and going from powerlifting to bodybuilding. I just got off training for a competition for over a year and peaked 3 weeks too early for powerlifting and my lifts have suffered for the past month. Ive had a high protein diet (4-5 meals a day) and time my post workout nutrition correctly. Im likely going to be doing Dave Palumbo's Diet For Cutting. (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=5899101) I saw though that youve been able to cut weight without entering ketosis. Any advice/diet plan for someone with aspirations to look good for summer (15% bf) while maintaing strength? ty in advance fellow investor friend

[user34566548717114]

i plan on switching things up and going from powerlifting to bodybuilding. I just got off training for a competition for over a year and peaked 3 weeks too early for powerlifting and my lifts have suffered for the past month. Ive had a high protein diet (4-5 meals a day) and time my post workout nutrition correctly. Im likely going to be doing Dave Palumbo's Diet For Cutting. (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=5899101) I saw though that youve been able to cut weight without entering ketosis. Any advice/diet plan for someone with aspirations to look good for summer (15% bf) while maintaing strength? ty in advance fellow investor friend

Is 15% your goal or your current state????

You def don't need to do the whole keto thing to drop to 10% or so bodyfat. Keto is NOT good for strength training as regeneration of creatine phos and your secondary ultra fast ATP generation process of glycolysis requires glucose which is stored in your muscle tissue as glycogen.

Keto results in VERY low muscle glycogen which means you can only generate ATP from creatine phosphate which depletes very quickly under stress and is very slow to regenerate during stress.

During ketosis your muscles switch to burning mostly fats and ketones for fuel this is however, and oxygen dependent production of ATP and while efficent is a SLOW process relative to non-oxygen ATP processes....

Whats your current total calories and bodyweight?

[Sublime25]

clen

[user34566548717114]

clen

what do you want to know about it???

[mindraper]

Good idea for a thread... subscribed

[captainhorseboy]

i'll pop in and restate something dvv said. the most crucial thing to do is to KNOW YOUR OWN BODY. in the end it doesn't matter if Arnie was able to drink beer or something. do what works for you and don't be afraid to mix things up.


i usually just run at night before bed when i wanna cut

[mcxk]

What do you think of Lean extreme 2.0 and retain 2?

[mindraper]

ttt

[SamsoniteP]

HERE ARE CLIFFS TO GET CUT IF YOU ARE CURRENTLY FAT!


-RUN 3 Miles a DAY FOR 3 MONTHS!!

PROBLEM SOLVED! NO NEED TO WORRY ABOUT FOOD ETC..

[ss4vegeta1]

Can you explain why some males get love handles and others don't and does it have to do with brown fat vs babyfat adipose tissue? Also when you weight train do you eat before I must but I am limiting my carbs for the reason they carry alot of phytic acid which blocks alot of nutrient absorption, it takes longer for the body to break the carbs down into sugar, carbs force the pancreas to work hard to produce extra digestive juices and increase it in size, and grains contain enzyme inhibitors which make them last in the body a long time.

[user34566548717114]

I have to study epigenetic regulation today I'll check out those supps break them down tonight.

HERE ARE CLIFFS TO GET CUT IF YOU ARE CURRENTLY FAT!


-RUN 3 Miles a DAY FOR 3 MONTHS!!

PROBLEM SOLVED! NO NEED TO WORRY ABOUT FOOD ETC..

negged for posting crap in a serious thread

slow twitch activation with no regard for nutrition is suicide for most peoples goals

[user34566548717114]

Can you explain why some males get love handles and others don't and does it have to do with brown fat vs babyfat adipose tissue? Also when you weight train do you eat before I must but I am limiting my carbs for the reason they carry alot of phytic acid which blocks alot of nutrient absorption, it takes longer for the body to break the carbs down into sugar, carbs force the pancreas to work hard to produce extra digestive juices and increase it in size, and grains contain enzyme inhibitors which make them last in the body a long time.

Alot of good questions in this one, I'll respond later on tonight I'm getting abused with work right now =/

[Death From Above]

how do you work as a chef 8+ hours a day, workout , do 30 mins of cardio per day and stay full?

yes i drink over 1.5 gallon of water, yes i eat a ****load of fiber/complex carbs

yes i am never full always hungry.

[LatinoHeat210]

HERE ARE CLIFFS TO GET CUT IF YOU ARE CURRENTLY FAT!


-RUN 3 Miles a DAY FOR 3 MONTHS!!

PROBLEM SOLVED! NO NEED TO WORRY ABOUT FOOD ETC..

If someone serioiusly does this, what would happen besides shin splints?

[l1fth4rd]

Excellent thread, and excellent answers. Take my puny reps lol


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