"A good leg workout is good for your biceps"?

[Ingersoll]

I've read that statement a couple of times but have never heard the scientific rationale behind it. I even read one guy who said that your biceps can benefit more from a great leg routine than actually working the biceps themselves.

How is this possible? Or is it?

[mikeincarolina]

The concensus is that squatting provides 'full body stimulation', esp in regards to upper body. Not sure about any scientific rationale. I know Mark Rippetoe is an advocate(so it's good enough for me!)

I used to never squat but have since made it a permanent part of my routine.

Never heard of biceps alone isolated in the upper body during a squat.

[jude-o]

Intense workouts using a lot of large muscles increase the release of hGH (growth hormone), which in theory might help all your muscles grow a bit better. I'm not sure if it really makes much of any difference in arm growth to work your legs, but I do know that proper leg development keeps you from looking stupid at the beach. (And having a stong back and legs is far more important to your fitness and quality of life than big biceps will ever be.)

[boathead]

agreed about the HGH, but on a more long term basis, the theory is that you can work arms til the cows come home, and growth will nonetheless be a function of overall body mass. more mass= bigger arms.

you'll gain an inch on your arms for every 15-20 lbs of body mass. this will be less as your weight reaches higher.

so, the exercises that build more mass, i.e. deads and squats, automatically will bring the arms along, as the body, all on its own, tries to keep its proportions.

so goes the theory. just saying is all.

[Heatmiser]

Meh.

Look around any gym and you'll see countless guys with huge arms/upper bodies and no legs.

Training the bodypart you wish to grow is the best way to.. yes, you guessed it..make that bodypart grow.

[PeteB]

Training the bodypart you wish to grow is the best way to.. yes, you guessed it..make that bodypart grow.

Agreed.

A few years ago I watched a bunch of guys play wheelchair basketball, and later do wheelchair sprints. Several of them had huge arms and shoulders, because they have to move themselves around using their arms. Since most of them were confined to a wheelchair, or at most could stand w. crutches, their legs were obviously not developed.

By contrast, look at the skinny arms and massive thighs of some soccer players.

None of this means squats are not a good whole body exercise, but it does show that muscle groups can develop independently of each other.

edit:

oh, and btw, I would hate to tell this guy he can't put size on his arms w/o a leg workout, (or that he looks stupid at the beach)... :

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/imag...robson316m.jpg

[bodyhard]

Squats will "assist" in getting your upper body bigger, but if you do only squats and think your arms will grow that is not going to happen. Although you will add overall mass to your body you still need to work your upper body for your arms to reach their genetic potential.

[Capt. America]

All the muscles in your body act as stabilizers to assist in the exercise.

[bulldog71]

Agreed.

A few years ago I watched a bunch of guys play wheelchair basketball, and later do wheelchair sprints. Several of them had huge arms and shoulders, because they have to move themselves around using their arms. Since most of them were confined to a wheelchair, or at most could stand w. crutches, their legs were obviously not developed.

By contrast, look at the skinny arms and massive thighs of some soccer players.

None of this means squats are not a good whole body exercise, but it does show that muscle groups can develop independently of each other.

edit:

oh, and btw, I would hate to tell this guy he can't put size on his arms w/o a leg workout, (or that he looks stupid at the beach)... :

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/imag...robson316m.jpg

That's an interesting argument/analogy, however, it doesn't hold water in this particular case. The biggest reason as to why, is because the one huge factor that nobody is taking into account yet, is CNS recruitment, stimulation and recovery. The wheelchair bound athlete, while impressive, does not have the same CNS functions because of their disability. The CNS will not be recruited in the same fashion. The greater the CNS activation, from an exercise, the greater the results. The CNS also needs recovery and adaptation time for any lift involved, just like the target muscles. When doing "BIG" exercises like squats or deads, it requires much more CNS stimulation to properly do the lift. This, in turn has the cascading effect of creating a more efficient CNS response to exercise stressors. When the CNS has recovered/adapted and grown, it in turn can more effeciently and effectively recruit more fibers quicker, when called upon, for ALL other muscle groups, allowing you to have greater contractile control no matter what bodypart you are working, creating more work done during the same contraction than before. All of this coupled with greater plasma IGF-1 levels will lead to an increase in overall bodymass when the other muscle groups are stressed. I hope this helped answer the OP's question.

[Ingersoll]

Meh.

Look around any gym and you'll see countless guys with huge arms/upper bodies and no legs.

Training the bodypart you wish to grow is the best way to.. yes, you guessed it..make that bodypart grow.

See, now this makes sense to me. I get that recruiting the biggest muscle groups performs X, Y, and Z function, is good for the whole overall physique, etc. And to that end I've made my lower body the biggest priority during this training cycle. However, and even though I am not a professional BB'er, it can only stand to reason that the best way to develop any muscle is to work that muscle.

As an aside, I wonder if the stick-legged, huge upper-bodied guys at the gym realize they look like cartoon animal charicatures of body builders.

[DVFlyer]

Could a good leg workout be good for the arms because you're moving all those plates from the rack to the bar?

[vol]

By contrast, look at the skinny arms and massive thighs of some soccer players.

... or professional bicycle racers.

[PeteB]

As an aside, I wonder if the stick-legged, huge upper-bodied guys at the gym realize they look like cartoon animal charicatures of body builders.

NOW you've gone and done it... come tomorrow, there will be a line at the one lone and previously dusty squat rack in most gyms!

[Cgb6810]

See, now this makes sense to me. I get that recruiting the biggest muscle groups performs X, Y, and Z function, is good for the whole overall physique, etc. And to that end I've made my lower body the biggest priority during this training cycle. However, and even though I am not a professional BB'er, it can only stand to reason that the best way to develop any muscle is to work that muscle.

As an aside, I wonder if the stick-legged, huge upper-bodied guys at the gym realize they look like cartoon animal charicatures of body builders.

There are some guys at my gym with pretty impressive upper body development who DO NOT train legs at all. One of them has 21" arms. Another I know benchs 405 for reps. They're easy to spot because they ALWAYS wear sweats to cover up them legs. I have no problem with what they do because it's their choice. But, I have to question, how much better would there upper body development be if they did some heavy leg training. It would make some of their lifts easier to perform because their core muscles would also benefit a great deal.

From what I understand the legs are the first to atrophy as we age. My Dad has the skinniest legs Ive seen and I know I dont want to look like him.

[Ingersoll]

From what I understand the legs are the first to atrophy as we age.

Really? I will keep that in mind from now on. The main thing, even above vanity, that got me into a healthy lifestyle was feeling like I was 100 years old at the age of 33. I never want to feel like that again.

[surlycurmudgeon]

Really? I will keep that in mind from now on. The main thing, even above vanity, that got me into a healthy lifestyle was feeling like I was 100 years old at the age of 33. I never want to feel like that again.

I'm with you on that one.

[Cgb6810]

Really? I will keep that in mind from now on. The main thing, even above vanity, that got me into a healthy lifestyle was feeling like I was 100 years old at the age of 33. I never want to feel like that again.

Ive been there. As I get older it takes much more effort to get "into shape" then it used to. I vowed a few years back to never let myself get out of shape again.

[boathead]

i don't think the issue was: can you build your biceps without working your legs.

rather, it was: can working legs assist your arms.

I believe, yes. it releases extra hgh, and helps add the mass your body needs. of course, you might actually have to work your arms a bit, but that is quibbling.

[biggaz]

Ive been there. As I get older it takes much more effort to get "into shape" then it used to. I vowed a few years back to never let myself get out of shape again.

Looks like whatever you're doing you're doing right.

[Fishhawk]

Its all about the Central Nervous System ...... refer back to post #9. Bulldog71 pretty much summed it up.

[TANK25]

There are some guys at my gym with pretty impressive upper body development who DO NOT train legs at all. One of them has 21" arms. Another I know benchs 405 for reps. They're easy to spot because they ALWAYS wear sweats to cover up them legs. I have no problem with what they do because it's their choice. But, I have to question, how much better would there upper body development be if they did some heavy leg training. It would make some of their lifts easier to perform because their core muscles would also benefit a great deal.

From what I understand the legs are the first to atrophy as we age. My Dad has the skinniest legs Ive seen and I know I dont want to look like him.

You see that a lot with guys who has only been at it for a few yrs,they forget their legs.I was the same way when I first started out.The only thing that save me was I rode a bike everywhere I went,so my legs didn`t look bad.

[BergMuscle]

I've heard pretty much the same thing as what's been said here; training large muscle groups, like the legs, will stimulate some increased muscle growth over the entire body. The key is the word "some". If all you train are legs, your upper body, including your arms, may get leaner with better muscle tone and definition. However, if you want to fill your sleeves with big biceps and triceps, don't skip arm day to do more squats.

[ironwill2008]

i don't think the issue was: can you build your biceps without working your legs.

rather, it was: can working legs assist your arms.

I believe, yes. it releases extra hgh, and helps add the mass your body needs. of course, you might actually have to work your arms a bit, but that is quibbling.

I go along with this post. When I first started to train, it was at home, with minimal equipment. I am ecto, and had trouble putting on musce, until I joined a gym, and started to squat. With no other real changes to my workout, other than adding squats, my upper body started growing at a faster rate. Of course, I was doing other, upper body exercises, too, but when I added the squats, everything grew faster.

[boathead]

good post.

i don't do any curling anymore. and my arms have never been bigger and toner. i work my legs, back, chest, shoulders. arms have come along for the ride.

[chodan9]

I had dedicated arm days since I started working out, and got some ok noob gains. but they stopped gaining and for like a year they stayed the same size.
I finally added deads and squats into my routine and after doing that for just a few months my arms started gaining size again.

[Fishhawk]

I had dedicated arm days since I started working out, and got some ok noob gains. but they stopped gaining and for like a year they stayed the same size.
I finally added deads and squats into my routine and after doing that for just a few months my arms started gaining size again.

I had pretty much the same results. I really started to see an increase in actual arm size after I went to a 3 day full body workout that required squats every workout...... (Bill Starr's 5X5 .... duh!)

[boathead]

sorry to revive an older thread, but i ran across a new article on t-nation. an excerpt from it:


Rogers et al

The Effect of Supplemental Isolated Weight-Training Exercises on Upper-Arm Size and Upper-Body Strength

Human Performance Laboratory, Ball State University, Muncie, IN.
NSCA Conference Abstract (2000)

The researchers compared the effects of a weight training program on 5RM strength and arm circumference and divided the subjects into two groups. Group 1 performed four compound upper body exercises, while Group 2 used the same program but included biceps curls and triceps extensions.

The results showed that both groups significantly increased strength and arm size

However, the addition of direct arm training to group two produced no additional effect on strength or arm circumference after 10 weeks of training.

[redweston]

It was explained to me once that worken legs hard and heavy will build up lung capacity resulting better workout's for the entire body.

Keeponpumpin!-red

[Arlecchino]

As one of the few people on this site that does not do curls, I can tell you that the lack of this is apparent in my case.