Intensive Tempo Useless for Sprinters?

[farzamk]

This is a subject of debate and world class coaches will have varied opinions. Charlie Francis completely dismisses intensive tempo running which is running at 80-90% of your maximum speed over certain distances.

Word is Tyson Gay and Wallace Spearmon, as well as Asafa Powell have this in their training, however recovery time is a lot. Linford Christie's group as well as himself does/did large amounts of intensive tempo with short/long recovery. While Justin Gatlin does extensive only.

Overall with world class coaches, some use a lot, some don't use at all, most use a little bit.

Now when looking at it from a non world class perspective, we must identify the purpose of intensive tempo in one's preparation. Development of special endurance IS needed, however at very small volumes. Charlie will use this as well for the same purpose, special endurance. Same reason Asafa runs 400s in his long to short program, special endurance needs to be developed at some extent. Further than that I see intensive tempo only as a tool for helping one to develop better sprint mechanics.

Lower velocity running has proven to me that it is useful in mechanical improvements, by increasing velocity and maintaining one's mechanics and body form, we will be able to do a proper biomechanical transfer of one's form through a velocity increase over a period of time. In other words, we have someone right properly at 50% speed, increase speed over time when doing these tempo runs and build up to 90-95% speed and from there it has a direct transfer to one's max velocity mechanics.

There is a problem with intensive tempo however, we use extensive (75% speed and below) as a method of recovery training. Intensive tempo however will challenge (depending on exact velocity) for similar energy sources as doing speed work will. This negates the recovery effects of extensive tempo as we use it for, therefore intensive tempo does not serve as recovery training. It can lead to CNS overload in rare instances if volume and speed is too high and done with little recovery time.

I come to the conclusion that intensive has its small place in one's program, done for development of special endurance and sprint mechanics, but mainly used in the GPP and done in very low volumes during SPP.

[farzamk]

Any thoughts?

[JTringer]

no..

[farzamk]

my job is done then

[SMac2347]

Wow, very interesting and great stuff. So if I am understanding correctly, your assertion is that the majority of world class sprinters do not/should not often train at near-maximal speed during workouts?

[thefight]

Intensive tempo however will challenge (depending on exact velocity) for similar energy sources as doing speed work will.

I thought speed work is done at an intensive tempo(above 80% of max speed) or am i interpreting your post wrong?

Edit: Is intensive tempo when you run above 80% of max speed in intervals without full recovery and speed work when there is full recovery? because that would make more sense to me

[crppleman51]

charlie francis dismisses alot of things..

[farzamk]

I thought speed work is done at an intensive tempo(above 80% of max speed) or am i interpreting your post wrong?

Edit: Is intensive tempo when you run above 80% of max speed in intervals without full recovery and speed work when there is full recovery? because that would make more sense to me

intensive tempo regardless of recovery time is running at a speed of above 75% speed and below 95% speed.

Speed work is 95% and above, but most notably, 100% and max speed with max effort.

Recovery time doesnt change intensive tempo or speed work.

[farzamk]

charlie francis dismisses alot of things..

if there is good reason to, then why not dismiss or introduce things. He got rid of deadlifts too, he found they challenged the posterior chain too greatly and can lead to injuries post speed sessions, as well taxed the CNS heavily as opposed to squats which give overall similar results. So basically the stimulus wasnt given.

[vanvan22]

Well I would think a long time for recovery is ideal or you'll be conditioning.

[Malodrax]

This is a subject of debate and world class coaches will have varied opinions. Charlie Francis completely dismisses intensive tempo running which is running at 80-90% of your maximum speed over certain distances.

Word is Tyson Gay and Wallace Spearmon, as well as Asafa Powell have this in their training, however recovery time is a lot. Linford Christie's group as well as himself does/did large amounts of intensive tempo with short/long recovery. While Justin Gatlin does extensive only.

Overall with world class coaches, some use a lot, some don't use at all, most use a little bit.

Now when looking at it from a non world class perspective, we must identify the purpose of intensive tempo in one's preparation. Development of special endurance IS needed, however at very small volumes. Charlie will use this as well for the same purpose, special endurance. Same reason Asafa runs 400s in his long to short program, special endurance needs to be developed at some extent. Further than that I see intensive tempo only as a tool for helping one to develop better sprint mechanics.

Lower velocity running has proven to me that it is useful in mechanical improvements, by increasing velocity and maintaining one's mechanics and body form, we will be able to do a proper biomechanical transfer of one's form through a velocity increase over a period of time. In other words, we have someone right properly at 50% speed, increase speed over time when doing these tempo runs and build up to 90-95% speed and from there it has a direct transfer to one's max velocity mechanics.

There is a problem with intensive tempo however, we use extensive (75% speed and below) as a method of recovery training. Intensive tempo however will challenge (depending on exact velocity) for similar energy sources as doing speed work will. This negates the recovery effects of extensive tempo as we use it for, therefore intensive tempo does not serve as recovery training. It can lead to CNS overload in rare instances if volume and speed is too high and done with little recovery time.

I come to the conclusion that intensive has its small place in one's program, done for development of special endurance and sprint mechanics, but mainly used in the GPP and done in very low volumes during SPP.

i agree... i also find that dooing intenstive tempo, ext tempo and sprints +weights are waay to much stress on the hammys.

[farzamk]

Well I would think a long time for recovery is ideal or you'll be conditioning.

but how is this making you better? speed work makes you faster, slower tempo is good for recovery What's the purpose of intensive? none really.

[crppleman51]

if there is good reason to, then why not dismiss or introduce things. He got rid of deadlifts too, he found they challenged the posterior chain too greatly and can lead to injuries post speed sessions, as well taxed the CNS heavily as opposed to squats which give overall similar results. So basically the stimulus wasnt given.

he dissmissed single leg training in a blog on his site.. what im saying is he is not always right

[farzamk]

he dissmissed single leg training in a blog on his site.. what im saying is he is not always right

he is right about dismissing single leg training, that is if you understand mthe reasoning behind it. He had so much sucess, but regardless i read into his reasoning.

[ewong11692]

what do you do if your coaches judge performance and speed on how well you run in conditioning in practice. My coach believes in running gassers, darts, 200 meters, build ups, stuff like that, so should I continue to run intensively in my coaches' conditioning? Or should I ignore the way he chooses his conditioning and do extensive?

For me, it's still really hard to understand how extensive training can build endurance and speed, because correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't extensive conditioning running a slower speeds(not working twitch muscles as much) and having more recovery time? The recovery time bothers me the most, cause my coach only gives us 20 seconds, and I think i should condition accordingly to it.

Great thread, I needed one of these to clear up extensive and intensive tempo.

[farzamk]

what do you do if your coaches judge performance and speed on how well you run in conditioning in practice. My coach believes in running gassers, darts, 200 meters, build ups, stuff like that, so should I continue to run intensively in my coaches' conditioning? Or should I ignore the way he chooses his conditioning and do extensive?

For me, it's still really hard to understand how extensive training can build endurance and speed, because correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't extensive conditioning running a slower speeds(not working twitch muscles as much) and having more recovery time? The recovery time bothers me the most, cause my coach only gives us 20 seconds, and I think i should condition accordingly to it.

Great thread, I needed one of these to clear up extensive and intensive tempo.

Let me make this clear, speed work is the ONLY way to actually INCREASE speed. The ONLY way.

We dont require highly conditioned sprinters...what's the use? Endurance is only valuable at certain velocities, not at 80% speed. Intensive tempo=special endurance = very small use in a longer sprint. 1-2 runs over 300-400m will easily cover that, you may even use 250m-300m only.

Fast twitch II fibers (the one's you use in a sprint) arent trained at all during intensive tempo. Fast twitch I and slow tiwtch are used.

Extensive tempo isnt there to condition you so much, serves as RECOVERY (VERY critical) from speed work and lifting/plyos, as well I find it useful in developing sprint mechanics if you run properly that is, + does have some "conditioning" benefits.

[ewong11692]

Let me make this clear, speed work is the ONLY way to actually INCREASE speed. The ONLY way.

We dont require highly conditioned sprinters...what's the use? Endurance is only valuable at certain velocities, not at 80% speed. Intensive tempo=special endurance = very small use in a longer sprint. 1-2 runs over 300-400m will easily cover that, you may even use 250m-300m only.

Fast twitch II fibers (the one's you use in a sprint) arent trained at all during intensive tempo. Fast twitch I and slow tiwtch are used.

Extensive tempo isnt there to condition you so much, serves as RECOVERY (VERY critical) from speed work and lifting/plyos, as well I find it useful in developing sprint mechanics if you run properly that is, + does have some "conditioning" benefits.

Okay, thanks, that cleared some stuff up between intensive and extensive tempos. The only other thing that I'm still a little unsure about is the full recovery between every sprint. For football players, we don't have the option of resting for a minute between plays, it's always a couple of seconds to huddle and then we're back in.

So, for the workouts you have given the "Speed Workout" thread, shouldn't we just rest a couple of seconds? I see resting less as another way of conditioning. Resting less but running shorter distances with maximum speed will be more effective for football players.

[farzamk]

Okay, thanks, that cleared some stuff up between intensive and extensive tempos. The only other thing that I'm still a little unsure about is the full recovery between every sprint. For football players, we don't have the option of resting for a minute between plays, it's always a couple of seconds to huddle and then we're back in.

So, for the workouts you have given the "Speed Workout" thread, shouldn't we just rest a couple of seconds? I see resting less as another way of conditioning. Resting less but running shorter distances with maximum speed will be more effective for football players.

No, you want to be using full recovery for real speed work to get faster.

RSA (repeat sprint ability): http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post119429841


Build speed first, then move onto developing RSA. By developing more speed you also allow room for error basically, so going at 90% speed after you've got faster, will be similar to your 100% speed when you weren't as fast. Speed is more important.

Doing short rest accelerations (20m and under) will come in handy later on after speed is in place and you want to get a bit more. General tempo and circuit type conditioning work will improve RSA anyways.

[ewong11692]

No, you want to be using full recovery for real speed work to get faster.

RSA (repeat sprint ability): http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post119429841


Build speed first, then move onto developing RSA. By developing more speed you also allow room for error basically, so going at 90% speed after you've got faster, will be similar to your 100% speed when you weren't as fast. Speed is more important.

Doing short rest accelerations (20m and under) will come in handy later on after speed is in place and you want to get a bit more. General tempo and circuit type conditioning work will improve RSA anyways.

Okay, so for the RSA, can you mark off more than 60 m? and do 5 runs of whatever you marked off?

Btw, farzamk, after doing some of your speed workouts with the extensive tempos, i don't really feel anything after the workouts. Am i not pushing hard enough, or you don't usually feel the lactic acid kick in for fast twitch muscles?

[farzamk]

Okay, so for the RSA, can you mark off more than 60 m? and do 5 runs of whatever you marked off?

Btw, farzamk, after doing some of your speed workouts with the extensive tempos, i don't really feel anything after the workouts. Am i not pushing hard enough, or you don't usually feel the lactic acid kick in for fast twitch muscles?

I dont understand your first question.

For speed that's very good, you shouldnt be tired after.
For extensive I'd like to see volume go up now, add 3x150m every session.