Want to get a few things straight...

I just want to get a few things I'm unsure about straight before I start training...

Do you guys go through numerous cutting and bulking cycles to control fat levels while gaining?

I have a little fat around the my waistline, not much but its there. I will be going on a bulk but I don't no whether to lose the fat and start from lean or to just dive straight into a bulk? Are their ways of working out my bodyfat percentage accurately?

Also how do cutting and bulk routines differ. If i was to come off a bulk and start cutting would I have to change my routine up; more reps, less weight etc?

As for supps while bulking I was thinking of taking true mass while bulking [url]http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/bsn/true.html[/url]

I need a little guidance those who help will be repped

Appreciated...

Your getting too deep into it man. Just go on a clean bulk for 12-18 months. You will gain solid lean muscle with little to no fat. Then you can go on a quick 3 month cut and shred any fat you put on..

Just make sure its a clean bulk.

I normally just bulk until it is time to cut. If I was you I would dive straight into bulking.

As far as bodyfat percentage, I wouldn't worry about it too much right now.

DO NOT change your routine while cutting. The only thing that changes is your diet. This is an old myth that just won't die.

Forget about supps and just worry about eating lots of food.

[QUOTE=Senecan;431828231]Your getting too deep into it man. Just go on a clean bulk for 12-18 months. You will gain solid lean muscle with little to no fat. Then you can go on a quick 3 month cut and shred any fat you put on..

Just make sure its a clean bulk.[/QUOTE]

I agree man, it doesn't need to be as complicated as your making it! Its actually quite simple. Stick with packing on a bit of size for maybe the next 12 months or so, naturally you'll carry a bit of body fat, but if you can throw in some light cardio sessions 4-5 times per week that'll maintain where your currently at, and if your lucky and your diet is spot on, then you might even lose a bit as well as gain some good clean lean muscle.

Hope this helps man.

Nav.

[QUOTE=perduebs;431828861]

DO NOT change your routine while cutting. The only thing that changes is your diet. This is an old myth that just won't die.[/QUOTE]


Sorry man, but i'll have to disagree here and here is the analogy i use to explain to people......

a 100M dash and a marathon are both RUNNING, yet training for both are vastly different.... same for bulking and cutting. You can think of the bulking as training for the 100M dash, where you go short distances, sprint, likewise in weight training you go heavy and lower reps.... when you get to the marathon (cutting) your goals are entirely different, so your muscles have to be trained differently....

Not saying you wont get results if you keep your routine the same, but i you want to MAXIMIZE your results, then IMO you must definitely change..... even if it's for the sake of changing. After doing the same routine for about 8 weks, your muscles need a change to ontinue to develop ;)

[QUOTE=perduebs;431828861]I normally just bulk until it is time to cut. If I was you I would dive straight into bulking.

As far as bodyfat percentage, I wouldn't worry about it too much right now.

DO NOT change your routine while cutting. The only thing that changes is your diet. This is an old myth that just won't die.

Forget about supps and just worry about eating lots of food.[/QUOTE]


But i'll need a supp to help get all the carbs and protein I need for the bulk? In conjunction with carb and protein intake from proper food obviously

[QUOTE=Futix76;431834011]Sorry man, but i'll have to disagree here and here is the analogy i use to explain to people......

a 100M dash and a marathon are both RUNNING, yet training for both are vastly different.... same for bulking and cutting. You can think of the bulking as training for the 100M dash, where you go short distances, sprint, likewise in weight training you go heavy and lower reps.... when you get to the marathon (cutting) your goals are entirely different, so your muscles have to be trained differently....

Not saying you wont get results if you keep your routine the same, but i you want to MAXIMIZE your results, then IMO you must definitely change..... even if it's for the sake of changing. After doing the same routine for about 8 weks, your muscles need a change to ontinue to develop ;)[/QUOTE]

Are you saying that when you cut you should do higher reps and longer sets, which would correlate more with distance running as you put it? If you are, you are incorrect. Your analogy is meaningless actually, as cutting is not relatable to marathon running. Also, a bulk is not defined as a period of training where you incorporate lower reps and higher loads. There are too many things wrong with your post for it to be seen as the truth.

It is wise to change parts of your routine [B]when you need to[/B], but not on an 8 week schedule. The changing part is true, but it has nothing to do with cutting or bulking. It has to do with adaption.

Take a look at these cut results. This is a 20 week cut in which I changed nothing about my workouts, and [B]performed no cardio[/B]. This is simply from working out 4 hours per week with no changes to my previous training methods while bulking.

[IMG]http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd27/deadliftsmith/RyansPics.jpg[/IMG]

Make sure your advice is accurate before giving it to someone that is new to the game. You could really end up wasting the OPs time and effort if he were to listen.

@ 2020: Dude are you kidding me????? my advice is accurate ....changing up a routine has A LOT to do with cutting and bulking..... two totally different things and hence why i argue that my analogy holds up.. It has little to do with the amount of weight & reps during the bulking phase and higher rep lower weight in cutting phase.. what i'm talking about is the responsiveness of your muscles, their development or lack thereof as a result of a monotonous routine.... the bulking phase as we know is where you want to put on mass,,, tear the muscle tissue to sh!ts so that when it heals you have created muscle growth. you sure as hell dont get this out of bench pressing 65lbs 100 times.... the inverse of that is that when you are cutting, your initial goal is to deplete your muscles of glycogen during workout to induce the initial muscle density, and how do you do this???? shorter rest periods between sets... then 4 weeks before competition you change it yet again to work on your muscle density at yet another level. bottom line is it's all about keeping your muscles from adapting. Again, if you read my initial post, i dont argue that you can get results by keeping the same routine, as your pics show that it is possible to g3t good results. My point is that if you want to MAXIMIZE them, then changing up routines in an adequate manner will help you achieve that. hence why just 5 weeks into my cut, i have seen similar results to yours.

[QUOTE=Futix76;431860301]@ 2020: Dude are you kidding me????? my advice is accurate ....changing up a routine has A LOT to do with cutting and bulking..... [/QUOTE]

Changing up a routine does not have much to do with cutting and bulking. You can, and should lift the same way regardless of if you are cutting or bulking. If you are going to make any change to your routine, you should just cut a bit of volume while cutting. But you should not start changing up your rest periods, trying to workout faster as to better your cut.

The changes that take place in your body when cutting are a result of your nutrition, not your change in routine. You can perform the same program and get different results out of it based on your nutrition during that program.

I've interviewed at least 40 bodybuilders in the past year, and each of them that talks about cutting preaches training the same/training heavy while cutting so you don't lose muscle mass.

When the topic comes up, they all state the same thing...high reps, light weight for cutting is a very bad myth that must die.

I could point you to a list of these interviews if you'd like?

[QUOTE=fatdaddy67;431898881]I've interviewed at least 40 bodybuilders in the past year, and each of them that talks about cutting preaches training the same/training heavy while cutting so you don't lose muscle mass.

When the topic comes up, they all state the same thing...high reps, light weight for cutting is a very bad myth that must die.

I could point you to a list of these interviews if you'd like?[/QUOTE]

Please do. Not for me of course, but for others that still believe.

[QUOTE=fatdaddy67;431898881]When the topic comes up, they all state the same thing...high reps, light weight for cutting is a very bad myth that must die.
[/QUOTE]

^^^^This.

To lift "lighter" will give your body no reason to maintain any additional muscle mass, and it will be burned as fuel. Bad idea, and a bad myth.

Sorry futix, but you are off on this one.

i love how futix still keeps going even though the 2020 showed him proof of him cutting with no change so clearly you don't HAVE to change your routine

lol... too funny..., for the third time, no one here is claiming YOU HAVE TO change your routine,,,,,, you can certainly get results by doing the same thing over and over and just changing your diet and adding cardio to your routine while cutting; which by the way, that is change in itself but that is besides the point ;) yet it's basics...... it's about MAXIMIZING results...... i don't know too many people at the competition level who keep the same routine for 40+ weeks of the year...... maybe i've been doing it all wrong this whole time....lol

enjoy the thread!

[QUOTE=Futix76;432052661]lol... too funny..., for the third time, no one here is claiming YOU HAVE TO change your routine,,,,,, you can certainly get results by doing the same thing over and over and just changing your diet and adding cardio to your routine while cutting; which by the way, that is change in itself but that is besides the point ;) yet it's basics...... it's about MAXIMIZING results...... i don't know too many people at the competition level who keep the same routine for 40+ weeks of the year...... maybe i've been doing it all wrong this whole time....lol

enjoy the thread![/QUOTE]

As I said before, this myth won't die. There is no need to change your routine, you will not maximize your results by using lighter weight and more reps. Competitive athletes and bodybuilders are at the advanced level of training and thus need to change their routine within the year to continue to see results (like a strength athlete using periodization).

[QUOTE=perduebs;432061681]As I said before, this myth won't die. There is no need to change your routine, you will not maximize your results by using lighter weight and more reps. Competitive athletes and bodybuilders are at the advanced level of training and thus need to change their routine within the year to continue to see results (like a strength athlete using periodization).[/QUOTE]

my point exactly perd.....

[QUOTE=Futix76;432078561]my point exactly perd.....[/QUOTE]

Perd was saying you were wrong, not agreeing with you. He was making the exact opposite point of you. His point is the correct point to be made.

[QUOTE=Futix76;431834011]...You can think of the bulking as training for the 100M dash, where you go short distances, sprint, likewise in weight training you go heavy and lower reps.... when you get to the marathon (cutting) your goals are entirely different, so your muscles have to be trained differently....[/QUOTE]

Here, Futix is saying that bulking is about going heavy with low reps.

[QUOTE=2020Wellness;431843171]It is wise to change parts of your routine [B]when you need to[/B], but not on an 8 week schedule. The changing part is true, but it has nothing to do with cutting or bulking. It has to do with adaption.[/QUOTE]

Here, 2020 is agreeing that change is good but not directly related to cutting and bulking.

[QUOTE=Futix76;431860301]It has little to do with the amount of weight & reps during the bulking phase and higher rep lower weight in cutting phase.. what i'm talking about is the responsiveness of your muscles, their development or lack thereof as a result of a monotonous routine[/QUOTE]

Here it seems Futix changes directions a little and says that it isn't about the weight/reps, just change in itself.

[QUOTE=Futix76;432052661]you can certainly get results by doing the same thing over and over and just changing your diet and adding cardio to your routine while cutting; which by the way, that is change in itself but that is besides the point ;) yet it's basics...... it's about MAXIMIZING results...... i don't know too many people at the competition level who keep the same routine for 40+ weeks of the year[/QUOTE]

I don't think that anybody is advocating a "monotonous" routine for 40+ weeks of the year, in fact it has been agreed that you DO need to add change to your routine. The argument is that routine change (at the gym) is not directly related to bulk/cut phase changes.
EDIT: Of course you have to change your routine, you should always be progressing. And sometimes in order to progress you have to change set/rep schemes and lift different %1RM. That is a given.

I've read (so take it for what it's worth) that a possible origination for the "lift lighter weight to cut" myth was from when interviewers would ask the pro bodybuilder what he did to prepare for the contest, part of the answer would involve lifting lighter weights because of the restrictive diet. Viewers and readers then misinterpreted that as lift lighter weights for more reps for definition.

The title is "want to get a few things straight" and now their less straight than they were in the first place lol.

[QUOTE=19dan89;432509111]The title is "want to get a few things straight" and now their less straight than they were in the first place lol.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, that's not at all unusual on this site. That's why it's important to do your own homework, and then make an intelligent decision on whose advice to take, and whose not to take.

[QUOTE=ironwill2008;432510691]make an intelligent decision on whose advice to take, and whose not to take.[/QUOTE]

This is what I tell people all the time. Let someone earn your trust and respect and just stick with them.

[QUOTE=Futix76;431834011]Sorry man, but i'll have to disagree here and here is the analogy i use to explain to people......

a 100M dash and a marathon are both RUNNING, yet training for both are vastly different.... same for bulking and cutting. You can think of the bulking as training for the 100M dash, where you go short distances, sprint, likewise in weight training you go heavy and lower reps.... when you get to the marathon (cutting) your goals are entirely different, so your muscles have to be trained differently....
[/QUOTE]

But that analogy doesn't hold. Bodybuilding/weight training is not the same as running. You either build muscle or you don't. If you build muscle with your training while bulking, then that same training will help prevent you from loosing muscle while you cut.

[QUOTE=Futix76;431834011]
Not saying you wont get results if you keep your routine the same, but i you want to MAXIMIZE your results, then IMO you must definitely change..... even if it's for the sake of changing.
[/QUOTE]

That's the worst possible reason for changing your routine.

[QUOTE=Futix76;431834011]
After doing the same routine for about 8 weks, your muscles need a change to ontinue to develop ;)[/QUOTE]

8 WEEKS! LOL, no. I've been doing my routine for almost 2 YEARS, and I'm still getting bigger and stronger.

Bigtallox vs. muscle confusion, take 4893!

I hope you win, Bigtallox.