Evaluate my technique!

[NHBBareKnuckler]

On high kicks, you do throw your hand back, low/leg kicks you keep your hand up in their face....

You never put your hands down ever. To put your hands down is not only bad form but it is a bad idea. There really isn't any room for argument on this issue. There is the right way and correct form for the kick involving the hands and that is to keep the hands up. Then there is a wrong way is to swing an arm behind you for balance, because you’ve never practiced proper technique.

This isn’t JMO, it’s the science of Combative Arts.

[JAGERBOY]

You never put your hands down ever. To put your hands down is not only bad form but it is a bad idea. There really isn't any room for argument on this issue. There is the right way and correct form for the kick involving the hands and that is to keep the hands up. Then there is a wrong way is to swing an arm behind you for balance, because you’ve never practiced proper technique.

This isn’t JMO, it’s the science of Combative Arts.

Watch any video of CroCop throwing his high kick then come back and respond....or watch this highlight of K-1 knockots, notice all of the high kicks the hand thats on the same side of the kick is thrown back, thats what creates the torque of the body, obviously you keep the other hand up. Sorry bro, I know you have fought, but Ill take CroCops technique over pretty much anyones for kicks any day of the week...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss6Iz...elated&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3puPvJHUtjE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlQ3YqC6TqM

[NHBBareKnuckler]

I thought I alwasy said that Cro Cop was punched in the face by Fedor for dropping his hands.

I don't care if Brice Lee does it. It's wrong.

[DarinK]

I thought I alwasy said that Cro Cop was punched in the face by Fedor for dropping his hands.

I don't care if Brice Lee does it. It's wrong.

You do leave yourself open to a big counter when you kick and drop the hands. I've seen quite a few K-1 knockouts where a guy gets caught like this. But to be honest hardly any pro throws a kick without dropping his hands. I could show a million clips of pro fighters dropping their hands when they kick. I think they are opting for power over safety.

[HardGainer82]

When you reach the level of CroCop, and have his experience, technique, speed, power, and flat out have people SCARED of your kicks, THEN you can drop your hands. Until then, keep them up. Or people WILL step inside your kicks and blast you in the face.

[JAGERBOY]

When you reach the level of CroCop, and have his experience, technique, speed, power, and flat out have people SCARED of your kicks, THEN you can drop your hands. Until then, keep them up. Or people WILL step inside your kicks and blast you in the face.

Dude, its just the it works, when you throw a high kick you throw that sides hand back, theres no way to generate that same force without doing that.

Watch this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2Eh7SL91v8

This one his hands are clearly down:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P8jiuAf4DI

Throws hand back, keeps non kick hand up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAQUyG-LOO8

[NHBBareKnuckler]

I really don’t like saying this because I don’t feel it should make a difference. However, it should in some way lend some gravity to what it is I am telling you. I have been involved with Martial Arts over all for 21 years. In that, I more then likely have been instructing for possibly longer then your Martial Arts carrier to date.

I am not saying this to get some “I’m so special” points on the forum nor am I getting into this to make you feel like I am trying to say you don’t know anything. However I am trying to explain to you the correct way of doing something. And you are not listening.

All the examples of what you are showing me are MMA fighters and in that they are Martial Artists. It isn’t that they have mastered a system and have a Master of even a Prof title hanging from their hips. Maybe a gold belt, and in the long run that only means he was better then the other guy in front of him, doesn’t mean he was better then his own self. Which in my opinion is what a Red belt will add up to.

Throwing you hand back for balance on a high kick is a horrible habit, as well as poor technique. I am able to kick the chains on the heavy bag having never dropped my hands. In real Martial Arts / Self Defense it’s just a fact. In MMA where it is Martial Arts based sport, you’re only going to get away with it for so long. Again Cro Cop getting tagged a number of times by Fedor.

I really don't know what else to say on this topic, so I think I have said mine and I am done with it...

Sorry I actually have a P.S. here:
Proper form: in stance is dominant or power hand back, that shoulder back, along with the corresponding foot. That’s when you blade the body and stand somewhat on an angle, rear foot pointed away form the body close to a 45-degree angle. The correct thing to do when throwing the “high kick” is to actually switch shoulders and your rear hand becomes the lead hand until that foot is back behind you.

This over all motion is where your balance in relation to the technique actually comes from.

OK there, now I am finished. Sorry I didn't get into this in the begining. it is a poor note for me...

[JAGERBOY]

I really don’t like saying this because I don’t feel it should make a difference. However, it should in some way lend some gravity to what it is I am telling you. I have been involved with Martial Arts over all for 21 years. In that, I more then likely have been instructing for possibly longer then your Martial Arts carrier to date.

I am not saying this to get some “I’m so special” points on the forum nor am I getting into this to make you feel like I am trying to say you don’t know anything. However I am trying to explain to you the correct way of doing something. And you are not listening.

All the examples of what you are showing me are MMA fighters and in that they are Martial Artists. It isn’t that they have mastered a system and have a Master of even a Prof title hanging from their hips. Maybe a gold belt, and in the long run that only means he was better then the other guy in front of him, doesn’t mean he was better then his own self. Which in my opinion is what a Red belt will add up to.

Throwing you hand back for balance on a high kick is a horrible habit, as well as poor technique. I am able to kick the chains on the heavy bag having never dropped my hands. In real Martial Arts / Self Defense it’s just a fact. In MMA where it is Martial Arts based sport, you’re only going to get away with it for so long. Again Cro Cop getting tagged a number of times by Fedor.

I really don't know what else to say on this topic, so I think I have said mine and I am done with it...

1.I have shown you videos of strictly Muay Thai and K1 fighters, not just MMA fighters.

2. You dont throw your hand back for balance only, you also throw it back to create torque when you are twisting your hips with the kick

3. I repsect your experience, but I train with people that have done Muay Thai for 10+ years, the owner of my gym fought in UFC 63 and has held the Midwest Middleweight Muay Thai Title....and they all do it this way.

When you throw a jab, your jab side of your head is technically open, you keep your other hand up on the side of your head to protect, and you hope that the other guy doenst counter you or wasnt already throwing a punch of his own to the exposed side of your head. Just the same as when you throw your arm back, you are exposed, but your entire leg is there as a "block".

What is your main standup art you use?

[HardGainer82]

Dude, its just the it works, when you throw a high kick you throw that sides hand back, theres no way to generate that same force without doing that.

Watch this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2Eh7SL91v8

This one his hands are clearly down:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P8jiuAf4DI

Throws hand back, keeps non kick hand up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAQUyG-LOO8

Yeah...I've seen people kick before, but thanks.

I'll elaborate. When someone is a pro fighter who knows how to anticipate movement, and has a good sense of when to go for the knockout, it's okay to allow for the extra torque of throwing the hand back. When it's some dude working out in his garage or whatever (no offense to the OP) who a) probably can't generate knockout power yet anyway b) telegraphs the crap out his kicks and c) needs to be a lot more worried about defense, then NO, it's is not a good idea to drop the hands.
Just because a bunch of pro fighters do it doesn't mean we all should.

[JAGERBOY]

Yeah...I've seen people kick before, but thanks.

I'll elaborate. When someone is a pro fighter who knows how to anticipate movement, and has a good sense of when to go for the knockout, it's okay to allow for the extra torque of throwing the hand back. When it's some dude working out in his garage or whatever (no offense to the OP) who a) probably can't generate knockout power yet anyway b) telegraphs the crap out his kicks and c) needs to be a lot more worried about defense, then NO, it's is not a good idea to drop the hands.
Just because a bunch of pro fighters do it doesn't mean we all should.

You're lost, sorry.

[NHBBareKnuckler]

What is your main standup art you use?

That terminology isn’t standard in the world of Practical Combative Arts as it is in MMA.
I will get into it with you like this though. I have a Black belt in TKD, in TJJ or JJJ, I am Kiyoshi.

I have also been involved with a good deal of pressure point as well as some folding, which is counter grappling. I have messed around with a lot of different styles of Kong Fu, often times I go to seminars with a White Belt on and just get into it with the rest of the students, of other Dojos and Senseis from other states and so on. By the way that is where I have the most fun, I think everyone should go to Seminars.

I don’t have a one style, I have ability, I guess? I am not sure exactly how to put it in the sense that you are asking. Everything is a matter of what the person in front of me is doing.

In the MMA setting I fight from what looks like an American Boxing stance but my hands are always open and I get a little lower. That is just where I feel my most comfortable.

I wish there was a way for me to answer your question with fewer words. Without having to say “I DON’T HAVE ONE”, Sorry Bro…

When you reach the level of CroCop, and have his experience, technique, speed, power, and flat out have people SCARED of your kicks, THEN you can drop your hands. Until then, keep them up. Or people WILL step inside your kicks and blast you in the face.

I would like to take the time, just once more to point out Fedor nit Crop Cop in the face a number of times for dropping his hand. Fedor is an amazing fighter, I htink he has a computer in his head that just says NOW, NOW to him. haha

[JAGERBOY]

That terminology isn’t standard in the world of Practical Combative Arts as it is in MMA.
I will get into it with you like this though. I have a Black belt in TKD, in TJJ or

I like you bro, I think your a cool dude...but nuff said. From what I know of TKD, your kicks are more focused on the snapping effect, and kicking with the feet. Muay Thai is focused on kicking THROUGH your opponent and swiveling your entire body to create force and torque. TKD seems to rely strictly on the power of the leg to do their kicks, which is why it would be easier to keep your hand up while performing a traditional TKD style kick. I know you guys have some spinning kicks that involve the entire body swiveling, but just for a standard high kick, the styles are totally different. I talked to a Black Belt in TKD a few weeks back at my gym, he said that overall, he feels TKD is useless for street fights. He said he likes Muay Thai, but he doesnt like how the kicks make you more commited ie. Kicking through your opponent.

Correct me if Im wrong.

[Otis_Redding]

I like you bro, I think your a cool dude...but nuff said. From what I know of TKD, your kicks are more focused on the snapping effect, and kicking with the feet. Muay Thai is focused on kicking THROUGH your opponent and swiveling your entire body to create force and torque. TKD seems to rely strictly on the power of the leg to do their kicks, which is why it would be easier to keep your hand up while performing a traditional TKD style kick. I know you guys have some spinning kicks that involve the entire body swiveling, but just for a standard high kick, the styles are totally different. I talked to a Black Belt in TKD a few weeks back at my gym, he said that overall, he feels TKD is useless for street fights. He said he likes Muay Thai, but he doesnt like how the kicks make you more commited ie. Kicking through your opponent.

Correct me if Im wrong.

TKD is just one part of his knowledge as far as I have read and understood. You can't expect every TKD practitioner to kick exactly the same. Its dependent on the individual, their physical build, THEIR understanding and absorbsion of the techniques taught.

I have my bb in TKD also. Not trying to say it beats all other arts by any means. I just think its not as useless as people make it out to be. I personally have a far stronger kick than most I have met, in schools and during competitions. I know the result is because of the way I was born and not the style I was trained in. My peers and I took the same training, teaching, and practices, so how is the discrepency explained? Also, the hardest kick i ever took was from a man smaller than I, who have been studying less. It was not just a one time, lucky shot. He was able to deliver over and over again.

Individuality accounts for more of the "fight" in a person than the style.

[NHBBareKnuckler]

Sorry, I miss understood where you were coming from. I thought you were talking out ofht e ide of your neck for a minlol...
Sorry man, I see that that is my mistake...

However
Your assessment is a little off as far as how the kicks go. But it’s cool I am trying to leave well enough alone on this one but you’re not letting me haha. I have gone passed my belt in TKD though you know. Look up Kiyoshi, and what it means…

[Chett]

TKD is just one part of his knowledge as far as I have read and understood. You can't expect every TKD practitioner to kick exactly the same. Its dependent on the individual, their physical build, THEIR understanding and absorbsion of the techniques taught.

I have my bb in TKD also. Not trying to say it beats all other arts by any means. I just think its not as useless as people make it out to be. I personally have a far stronger kick than most I have met, in schools and during competitions. I know the result is because of the way I was born and not the style I was trained in. My peers and I took the same training, teaching, and practices, so how is the discrepency explained? Also, the hardest kick i ever took was from a man smaller than I, who have been studying less. It was not just a one time, lucky shot. He was able to deliver over and over again.

Individuality accounts for more of the "fight" in a person than the style.

why are you bringing "that retarded argument" into a thread that has nothing to do with "that retarded argument"?


ever heard of the term "styles make fights"?

im guessing you have not, since by your definition of what makes a fight, training is just useless and you shouldnt even waste the time and you should just go in and fight because its all about "individuality"

[JAGERBOY]

Sorry, I miss understood where you were coming from. I thought you were talking out ofht e ide of your neck for a minlol...
Sorry man, I see that that is my mistake...

However
Your assessment is a little off as far as how the kicks go. But it’s cool I am trying to leave well enough alone on this one but you’re not letting me haha. I have gone passed my belt in TKD though you know. Look up Kiyoshi, and what it means…

Kiyoshi?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiyoshi_It%C5%8D

[JAGERBOY]

TKD is just one part of his knowledge as far as I have read and understood. You can't expect every TKD practitioner to kick exactly the same. Its dependent on the individual, their physical build, THEIR understanding and absorbsion of the techniques taught.

I have my bb in TKD also. Not trying to say it beats all other arts by any means. I just think its not as useless as people make it out to be. I personally have a far stronger kick than most I have met, in schools and during competitions. I know the result is because of the way I was born and not the style I was trained in. My peers and I took the same training, teaching, and practices, so how is the discrepency explained? Also, the hardest kick i ever took was from a man smaller than I, who have been studying less. It was not just a one time, lucky shot. He was able to deliver over and over again.

Individuality accounts for more of the "fight" in a person than the style.

He studies TKD and JJJ. So his standup art is TKD. And yes, of course the styles are individualized to an extent, but a Muay Thai leg kick is a Muay Thai leg kick and theres a way you are and arent supposed to throw it. If you dont throw it the way you are supposed to, then its not a Muay Thai leg kick. Arguably, maybe your version is "more effective"...but the point remains, its not a MT leg kick.

[DarinK]

I've gotten a lot of good answers and help from everyone and I appreciate all your replies. The last few days I have been focusing on relaxing more and putting more torque into my kicks. Here are 2 short training vids from today. And yes the bag is light, but it's all I have for now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAwkcw6glAQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w37sqyeQYM

I know we have been debating about whether or not to drop hands while kicking, and I am going to keep dropping my hand on the kick. One of the video's is still processing, so if it's not working give it a few minutes.

[NHBBareKnuckler]

8th degree or higher...

[JAGERBOY]

8th degree or higher...

Great, so you are an expert at what you do, TKD. You are NOT an expert on what you dont do...Muay Thai.

[NHBBareKnuckler]

Great, so you are an expert at what you do, TKD. You are NOT an expert on what you dont do...Muay Thai.

I am Kiyoshi in JJJ, please Bro, I said that before. this is giving me a friggen headache. Do whatever you like...

[JAGERBOY]

I am Kiyoshi in JJJ, please Bro, I said that before. this is giving me a friggen headache. Do whatever you like...

Ok, so you are a Kiyoshi in Japanese JiuJitsu? What does that have to do with Muay Thai high kicks bro?

[NHBBareKnuckler]

Ok, so you are a Kiyoshi in Japanese JiuJitsu? What does that have to do with Muay Thai high kicks bro?

Fine, I have no responce as to whatever you feel like talking about. A kick is a kick and no matter where it comes from, there is a right way and there is a wrong way. So, you go right ahead and do whatever it is you want. Awesome...
I have had about enough.

[JAGERBOY]

Fine, I have no responce as to whatever you feel like talking about. A kick is a kick and no matter where it comes from, there is a right way and there is a wrong way. So, you go right ahead and do whatever it is you want. Awesome...
I have had about enough.

Seems like you are taking it personal. If you truelly are Kiyoshi in JJJ, then you have my utmost respect. But Ive posted numerous videos of pure Muay Thai fighters, K1 fighters, and MMA fighters all throwing that kick the same way. Ive given people that I respect as standup and Muay Thai fighters that do it this way that I learn under. I dont get what else you want. Show me a video of someone throwing a leg kick as you would do it so I can see what you are talking about.

[DarinK]

Show me a video of someone throwing a leg kick as you would do it so I can see what you are talking about.

I would like to see that too.

[Axe Murderer]

kicks look decent. Punches aren't very fluid though, and don't really flow. I think you just need to get your elbows in, butwithout a trainer you won't really know how to punch correctly.

Idk if you already do this but practice punching first then kicking. If you just kick first you'll get countered by the big right...Igor Vovchanchen style. STuff like 1-2-3 rear thai kick 3-2 lead thai kick.

But hey not looking bad. Get to a muay thai school.

[Otis_Redding]

A kick is a kick and no matter where it comes from.

Thats how I see it.

[Otis_Redding]

He studies TKD and JJJ. So his standup art is TKD. And yes, of course the styles are individualized to an extent, but a Muay Thai leg kick is a Muay Thai leg kick and theres a way you are and arent supposed to throw it. If you dont throw it the way you are supposed to, then its not a Muay Thai leg kick. Arguably, maybe your version is "more effective"...but the point remains, its not a MT leg kick.

Fair enough. I have such a mix bag of styles in me, I just see a kick as a kick. If I send a low leg kick, I guess that can be catagorized as a MT kick, since that's the only one I've seen which utilized such attack, i could be missing some. But anything higher and the style line kind of blurs in my opinion. The emphasized "snap" of the tkd kick is for speed, when power is needed, even the tkd practitioner drives his leg in with the twist of the hip. there is no real restriction to how a tkd kick should be delivered. I believe the restrictions and labels are being placed by people, not so much the discipline.

[DarinK]

What is the name of that kick that Glaube Feitosa throws? Not the axe kick, but the roundhouse one that sort of loops over and comes down at an angle. I swear, it's the sweetest kick I've ever seen in my life. Anyone have a link of someone demonstrating that kick? The first guy in the UFC that ever knocks someone out with that kick is going to go down in history!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvLE3RLfk5k

[joeblowgan]

there was such a nice tkd knock out in king of the cage all stars i wish i had a clip. its so rare to see people use tkd in mma i dont care what anyone says though it works you just have to have half a brain to adapt. it was an undercard fight and he koed a bum but it was still nice to see. hes speed and power were very nice he also knocked him square on his ass with a side kick was a very nice display.
edit sorry forgot about the vid. you looked real good. i couldnt understand from your post if you have been trained or thats just what you picked up from hitting the bag and watching other people. i think you need to relax though try to be more fluid just let go. throw a punch or kick from where you are dont wind up unless its at the end of a combo. its hard to explain. i agree you should not drop your hands but alot of the technical stuff will come later you will figure out what works if you get knocked out or start fighting. i would give it some more time before you start fighting though. keep at it your doing good it seems like.